The Factions

first sorry for my poor english ,
as a muslim i like to clear somethings about the muslims factions history ,
after the great Umayyads (who controled the land starting china borders to spain) came the abassids 758 when they came up and kill all the Umayyads family members , one of the Umayyads succesfully ran to spain (abdulrahman) and there they named him as the caliphate of all muslims , meanwhile , the abassids chose one of then (almansor) to be the caliphate who control all the lands later on execpt for spain which become the great ANDALOS .
and to make it clear abassids and Umayyads is finaly from the same family , as abassids named after a man called (abu al abass) who was the uncle of prophit mohammed , umayads named after another unlce , who was the brother of (abo al abbas) .
then later on and after more than 300 years abassids become very weak and so another ppl come up and control . its very long story , so i'll talk about the last one , year of falling , seljuks was controling bagdad (capital of abassids) as they was on a high positions sarounding the abassids caliphate , so there u can say that the caliphate on that time was only using a holy title exactly same like the pop in rome this time .cuz he is from the same muhammeds family , only to buy ppl agreament of each state controler . so he must bless the state controlers to make it legal , and some of this states was mumloks , seljuks fatimats . so on mtw2 abassids was the best chose of faction on east . using turks is complitly wrong , unless they mean seljuks . the abassids empire fall in after the mangols horde came from east and enter bagdad kill and burn including the caliphate (1258). after the EYN JALOT battle king qutoz defeted mangols mumluks come up and control syria with saladin leading , after saladin takeover palistine from u guys , he fight the fatimads and here must clear one point fatimads was shea muslims saladin was sunna so they where enimes so we cant call both of them egyption , one more point must be clear on mtw !! who was the egyption !! fatimads or mumluks ! which both of them was not egyption , mumluks is kurds by the way .
almohads was only barbarian nation on that time , later on they made there empire ,
so mtw must name the muslim factions on one of this 2 ways
1- abassids or seljuks on east ,fatimads on egypt , rabels muslim states on spain .
2- mumluks on east capital is demascis . fatimads on egypt capital ( before mumloks win over fatimads and control egypt ) rabels on spain , barbarian almohads on north africa capital is moroco .

regards

reasons not to put to Potugal in this game:

1- Portugal begins to exist like so as of century XIII.

2-In the Iberian Peninsula, other important kingdoms but at the time exist in that it is developed to the game like the kingdom of Navarre and the kingdom of Aragon.

3-The factions of the game are limited and the representative kingdoms but of Iberia are due to put, at the time at which the game is developed.

4-Spain at the moment has 40 million inhabitants and of possible buyers of this game. One is not due to put the faction of Portugal and not to put other kingdoms of Spain.

thanks

to Stephen Asen.I am sorry for my bad english so i cant say what i realy want to say.I expect that you are from Bulgaria,of course you know that i am from serbia.I still go in to high school.I coud not reply sunner couse I was on competition from HISTORY.I study midle age.SO i Think I know what was hapening in the balkans.First and most important,both serbia and Bulgaria need to be in the game.I just want to say that,Otomans were not the biggest power in the balkan until Batle at river Marica.Vukasin Mrnjavcevic and Ugljesa Mrnjavcevic atacked otomans but,as the night fall Turks have atacked the Serbian Camp and they killed entier army who was in the bad and sleeping.After that Turks becomed biggest force on the balkans.Also need to say,Serbian lands in late 14century were all throw the Aegian sea.So we were first who feal Otoman power.Also after Batle at Kosovo where Sultan Murat was killed Bajazit the lightening seize the throne and finish the battle.Battle was a draw,but real concequences were felt only by the serbs who managed to stop Turks for 70 years.But After Battle Bajazit conquer Bulgaria.SO TURKS FIRST ATACKED SERBIA,BUT THEIR ATEMPT WAS FAILER AND WHEN THEY WERE STOPED THEN THEY ATACKED BULGARIA AND CONQUER YOUR ANCESTORS LANDS.This what i know about midle age in the balkans so if you think i am wrong please reply.I like to learn...
Thanks

hi again ,
here is a map for ottmans historical empire during time ,
as u can see , ottmans is not that old empire,
before (1359 to 1451) u can call it only a small state must not be included as a great nation on mdt , 1451 for godsake , isnt it too late !!
regards
https://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6524/093xr.gif

Yeah, but at what is usually considered the beginning of the Middle Ages proper (ie. late 11th century) nobody had even heard of the Ottomans and the Seljuqs of Rum (AKA Great Seljuqs) controlled a whole lot of territory in Asia Minor... They collapsed later under internal troubles and Mongol pressure (with some tacit and characteristically sneaky Byzantine assistance), and the Ottomans grew out of the chaotic jumble of little (and usually short-lived) Turkish princedoms that formed a sort of no-mans land in Asia Minor as a result.

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Originally Posted by Tzar Dusan of Serbs

to Stephen Asen.I am sorry for my bad english so i cant say what i realy want to say.I expect that you are from Bulgaria,of course you know that i am from serbia.I still go in to high school.I coud not reply sunner couse I was on competition from HISTORY.I study midle age.SO i Think I know what was hapening in the balkans.First and most important,both serbia and Bulgaria need to be in the game.I just want to say that,Otomans were not the biggest power in the balkan until Batle at river Marica.Vukasin Mrnjavcevic and Ugljesa Mrnjavcevic atacked otomans but,as the night fall Turks have atacked the Serbian Camp and they killed entier army who was in the bad and sleeping.After that Turks becomed biggest force on the balkans.Also need to say,Serbian lands in late 14century were all throw the Aegian sea.So we were first who feal Otoman power.Also after Batle at Kosovo where Sultan Murat was killed Bajazit the lightening seize the throne and finish the battle.Battle was a draw,but real concequences were felt only by the serbs who managed to stop Turks for 70 years.But After Battle Bajazit conquer Bulgaria.SO TURKS FIRST ATACKED SERBIA,BUT THEIR ATEMPT WAS FAILER AND WHEN THEY WERE STOPED THEN THEY ATACKED BULGARIA AND CONQUER YOUR ANCESTORS LANDS.This what i know about midle age in the balkans so if you think i am wrong please reply.I like to learn...
Thanks

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Good you are interested in the history,too:2thumbsup: . Actually now I'm too busy but I'll try to explain this in short. Actually Turkish invasion in Bulgaria started in the 40s of XIV century ( Kantakuzenus' turkish mercenaries). Before the battle of Marica (1371) the Ottomans started pillaging Bulgarian lands with their numerous akanji units and just before the battle in 1371 (before or after conquring of Adrianople-the historians aren't sure when exactly but before the battle of Marica) Philipopulis and Zagore fell. And actually (and unfortunately) both Vulkashin and Uglesha were killed
and their lands conquered (the son of Vulkashin continued ruling his father lands but was very loyal to the Turks) so these didn't resisted. And just to put that in in Medieval times the population in Vulkasin and Uglesha were Bulgarian but just at that historical moment were ruled by Serbian aristocrats ( note: I talk about Middle ages, now the area of Bulgarian population is too complicated and problematic and I'm not going to discuss it now !!!) so they both Bulgarians and Serbs fought against the invaders (although both Serbian principality and the Bulgarian states didn't participated) And actually conquering Bulgaria was not an easy process it took 25 years despite of the constant pillaging and raids ( actually these raids were decisive- it was easy to be done ( Galipoli was near) and Bulgaria was in a crisis like all Balkan states). So the Bulgarians also stopped for a while an important part of the Ottoman forces. As I said they were in central Balkan peninsula too close to Galipoli.
Anyway I totally agree Serbians stopped the Ottoman forces for an almost a century. And Kosovo battle was a really one of the greatest and more dramatic battle in history: two great rulers (Lazar and Murad I ) and the both were dead after the battle. And what about Plochnik ( just abit earlier) when the Ottomans were defeated for a first time !
But actually any Balkan country gave its bloody duty to stop the invaders and to give Europe time to prepare. And they were very similiar they were a part of one civilisation ( just like there is an western civilisation ). That's the truth they had the poor chance to be weak in the wrong time.
P.S. Maybe my next reply will be a little bit late (possibly Monday) so you have time to reflect on this.

What is that all about anyway ? I don't think CA will change their mind about the factions included in MTW2 after reading that topic, mostly filled by 'this is why my country was a major power and should be included' kinda boring posts. I'd obviously like a game with a few hundreds of playable factions a la EUII, but it's probably not going to happen with MTW2, so I'll stick with the 21 - or possibly 30 - factions that were/will be announced.

to Stephen Asen I am glad that you shared this information with me.You know my history book mostly say about Simeon and about Samuilo who was defeted by Vasily II Bulgarian Killer.There is little information about Bulgarian national history.Jovan Kantakuzin was former ally of Dusan the Mighty.But they broke their aliance becouse Kantakuzin hired Turks as Merceneries.In the battle at Didmotika,Turks defeted our ancestors in the great battle.Serbian,Bulgarian and Byzantian army of Kantakuzins rival Jovan IV were defeted by Turks.After that Turks have conquered Galipole(Jedrene;Hadrijanopolj)this is all the names of the same city.Battle at plocnik is not a great battle.Serb have rised up to answer on turkish raid,their Akinji(fast cavalry)was defeted by the sporadic raised army.So it wasn't great succes.Anyway I think we should consider other question one of this should be selection of the army,for both of our countries.Just in case that someone who have influence to creator of the game should read this.I have very little information about army of that time.And I need we should consider this?Also one more thing I like to know.Can you tell me when Bulgars start calling them selfs Slavs?Becouse I know that they were originaly nomadic people from
Asia,and later were asimilated by the people who were under Bulgars.

hi again ,
this game is about history , and its much more better when they make the game as much real as posible , ( i have no idia what year it will start at )
but
if the game starts at the year 1100 must include the main strong factions , not to include a small state controled by a barbarians such as almohads or some group of familys like ottmans ,
there seljuks will be the correct choice for the east ,
if u know that seljuks will be defieted later on then go read a historical book , better than play a game .
otherwise , inclide USA , as a final result .
about MTW2 , yes they may not even know about this site or page 4 on one subject from handereds , but it is nice to share informations and know the point view of differant nations .
ea. seljuks defeat was actualy abassids . when the chalifa agree to stop fighting and deliver the army leader who was definding baghdad to the mangols , after the battle stops , mangols killed the chalifa as a reward for his brave behavier .
this is a history story from an arabian history books , never read or notice any thing about any western hand on this , not befor AIN JALOT battle when king QUTOZ asked for europ help against mangols , as they are the enimies of the whole world , but they turn him down ( -islam <> christans- war was in the red level , and the enemy of my enemy is my friend .
point view :)
regards

I know the Mongols butted heads with an allied Seljuq-Byzantine army at Köse Dagh. The first day's fighting ended in a draw. The Byzantines snuck off during the night, leaving the now hopelessly outmatched Seljuqs little choice but to roll over and become Mongol vassals, which duly pretty much killed their central authority and prestige and led to the total collapse of what was left of their empire. Which of course suited the Byzantines right well. This just happened to pave way for the eventual rise of the Ottomans, but hey, they didn't have time machines.

well as i said before i never read anything on islam history about this allience .
this is what i talked about before , differant history point view nice to be shared.
i'll disagree with u about the rise of ottmans ,
the emipre of seljuks ends on 1258 which helped to rise the mamluks with there leader saladin (KURDS). ottmans and as u can see on the map i attached before didnt capture any land of seljuks or mamluks before the year 1512 this means 250 years and more , thats why im not so happy for using the ottmans on mtw2 , cuz its little late great emipre after Mideval time , thats why i talked about time machine .
dont u agree with me about the names , calling them turks insted of ottmans , egyption isnted of fatimads or mumluks , is not good , when u call the faction control egypt ( egyption ) while they are mumluks KURDS . is shame for the good of history .
regards

I'm all for fairly general faction names, unless there's different "starting eras" à la old MTW in which case using dynastic names becomes a viable option. The buggers changed all the time anyway.

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Originally Posted by Tzar Dusan of Serbs

Anyway I think we should consider other question one of this should be selection of the army,for both of our countries.Just in case that someone who have influence to creator of the game should read this.I have very little information about army of that time.

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Here it was also discused why Serbia should be playable and they also said which units should be in the game
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...8&page=1&pp=20

Where the hell is Lichtenstein? We need Lichtenstein!

I'm back again ~:) .
Meneldil, the fact I'm Bulgarian will always put me in a position that can not be called neutral. However most often than not I'm objective. Bulgarians really deserves to be in the factions of MTW2. We, the Bulgarians ( and not only we) have the unfortunate fate to be one of the communistic countries and to be separated from the culture we've always been part of : the European culture. That's why some people are misled by our current situation and put us just as a rebels who can be bribed easily (that's one fo the few things I don't like in MTW). But note because I know it's not impossible to make all factions playable I'll glad to see them even as faction a la Burgundy in MTW. Note I don't talk about a short time of glory of Bulgarian state- for example between
IXth and XIth century (almost three centuries) Bulgarians were one of the ' great powers' in Europe ( first Byzantium, Carolingian empire (later the Western (in the beginning of XIIIth century it became France) and the Eastern (Germany) Frankish kingdoms) and Bulgaria ). After the reastauration of the state in 1185 Bulgarian state (before that between 1018 and 1185 Bulgarians were under the byzantine power but survived ) had lost some of its previous power but was still a major country in Eastern Europe ( the victory over the Latin knights of 4th crusade in 1205 and the active paticipation in the struggle for the byzantine heritage in the first half of XIIIth century are good proofs for this statement ) until the middle of XIIIth century when the Mongols invade. In XIVth century there were some attempts to strengthen but the exhaustion and so called 'crisis of XIVth century' slowed this trend fatally (the Ottomans :skull: came at the wrong time). So I hope there are some place for them because this is not a statement of fanatical patriot but the truth. So Bulgarians had to be like Burgundy- when you rule Byzantium you should be careful or some nasty reimergence of Bulgarians (who in the Medieval times covered a rather large of the Balkan peninsula) may appear .The Serbs also deserve to be included as a minor faction ( but faction not rebels- they could be small ( most of the time but they also had their glorious moment in the first half of XIVth century) but they were independent. Meneldil, also please note the argument with the Tzar Dusan of Serbs was too detailed. Nobody suggests to include some sepatistic feudal states like these of Vulkashin and Uglesha ( something like Tolouse of France(before XIIIth century) although not exactly). I hope my statement is clearer.
Tzar Dusan of Serbs your question about Bulgarians is interesting. The statement about the Bulghars and the assimilation is not exactly true. I've explained it in 'Over 30 factions' thread. Google the thread or just look one of my first posts. The explanation of your question isin ' Over 30 factions? ' thread on 4th page post #115 (also at the end of the post you can see a difference between the statements of Bulgarian and Serbian historians although in this case I think the truth is hidden in the unclear explanations of medieval historians (we all know how complicated and unclear is their writing). So nobody knows what really happened in the battle of Velbuzhd.
About the Bulgarian army I think in MTW2 there should be with a special armour piercing units (probably Bulgarian axemen or Bulgarian halberdiers) who are excellent vs knights are cheap with a good morale but not so strong if not against armoured units (esp. knights and Kataphraktois). Bulgarians were very good at ambushes esp in the mountains. There were three byz emperors who suffered badly from this- Nicephorus I (killed in 811) his heir and the next emperor Stauracius (who had to abdicate because of he had been badly hurted by the Bulgarians and died some months later) and the epiric (who crowned himself as a byz emperor) Theodore Angelus Comnenus (captured with all of his family in the battle of Klokotnitza in 1230). Some emprerors succeeded in surviving Basil II ( yes this excellent emperor was defeated and barely escaped from death in 986) and Isaac II in 1190. Oh, not only byz also the Latin emperor of Constantinople Baldwin I (captured and killed). So maybe Bulgarians should receive some bonus (more than ordinary) when are at higher place than the enemy or some hiding unit like hashishins.
After 1218 Bulgarians had elite army ( which is no militia who lost some of its importance but still existed) that was useful against the byzantines. Bulgarians used also Cuman mercenaries (very often) amd even Mongol ones.
allan I know something about this alliance. It was not so important. The byzantine help was only one unit mercenaries led by an Italian generals who fled during the battle. The more important was that Byzantium didn't used the difficulties of the Seljuk sultanate which showed how dangerous were Mongols. Anyway, it's not surprisingly you don't know about this alliance.
And Sallah-ad-din (Saladin) ruled in XIIth century (from 1171 to the last decade of XIIth century) and put the foundation of the Ayubid dynasty. He wasn't a mameluke sultan. Maybe you mean he made the dynasty who ruled the slave warriors called mamelukes (translated as 'bought slave') (analogy with Jannissaries but with some major differences ( I think they weren't born Christians like Jannissaries, not sure however)) and was eventually dethroned by them. Did I understood you right?

Where is Stockport? I want to play as the Baron of Stockport, damnit! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Furious Mental

Where the hell is Lichtenstein? We need Lichtenstein!

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Extacly,where the Hell are they??


The Game is About History, But it a Game,Not a History Book, Allan.. It Should Be Accartue, But I don't think CA going to get 8 Big , 1500 Page History Books and Look at each page,adding each thing to it..I know alot of About History,btw.. Got 3 Huge History Books and Countless Books about Rome,Mongols,Gehgians Khan, England Royaltly (Kings/Queens) and hell, I got a Mini Lbiarbray since I and my Brother go so many books..

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Originally Posted by The_Doctor

The Tumurids should be musilm.

They are musilm mongols. Tamealane's people.

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Are you talking about Timur, the lame? (A.K.A. Tamurlane)? I thought it was speled Timurids. And yes they are Muslim. I do wish that the Irish were incorporated in this installment, though. Maybe they are a faction that emerges as a semi-rebel faction? But I like the Russia, Byzantium (Both had Armenian territories and citizens) and probably the Scots, because they are as close tot the Irish as this game has.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

Sicily isn't Italian. It was a mix of Italians, native Sicilians, Carthaginians, Greeks and Romans. They are Sicilian.

Anyway, how are the Timurids there? Didn't Tamerlane claim to be descended from Genghis? My Medieval history is close to nil, so excuse me if I'm wrong.

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Don't forget the Arabs! They owned part of it.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

England,
France,
Scotland,
Holy Roman Empire, ....... germany
Denmark,
Spain,
Portugal, ......................................in europe history unimportant role
Milan, .............. italian
Venice, ............. italian
Papal States, ........ italian
Sicily, ................italian
Poland,
Russia, ............ who.? 10-12 russian knezs.
Hungary,
Byzantium,
The Turks, ........ who.? great selchuks, anatolia selchuks, ottomans, and other turks.
Egypt, .............who.? 1250-1517 memluks to be kıpchak turks.
The Moors,
The Mongols, .......... who.? great mongols empire - ilkhanlis - golden horde.?
The Tumurids, .................................... 1370-1447-- late periot & short life
The Aztecs. ................................... certain nonsense

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For your questions on who the Turks and Egypt represent the answer is short, all of the above. The Mongols will probably be the Golden horde (or all Mongol factions). Russia will either be all the Russian princes in 1 big faction or Novgorod then Moskovy. I also have a suspicition that the Timurids will represent all medieval Persian/Irainian states.

This is how it was in MTW, and judging by the description on the .com how it will be now (this is for Egypt).

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Represents a succession of dynasties that ruled Egypt. The land is rich and populous making it an excellent power base. The army consists mainly of Mamluk heavy cavalry armed with spears and bows, supported by infantry of variable quality.

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You see the factions don't always represent specific kingdoms or principalities. Half the time they represent ethnic/regional groups.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

21 faction.
but 4 italian factions, (including 2 little factions)
and 5 error factions (turks,portugal,russians,timurids,aztecs)

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The Papacy may be Italian but given the western european focus of the game it needs to be in their. It will act sort of like the roman senate.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

where..?
great or important factions:
cumans, swiss, litvania, bulgaria, burgonia, volga bulgaria, khawarizmshashs, abbasi khaliphes, zengis.

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You've got to be joking. The focus of the Medieval games is on western europe. They get the lions share of faction (and unit) diversity. Bulgaria was as important to european history as Portugal. The Abbasi Caliphs are Egypt. Khwarizmians might be includee as early on Timurids. The Swiss and Burgundians were in MTW, they might be back again.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

little factions:
norway, sweden, wales, irelans, normans, navarrs, catalans, genova, bohemia, austria, kroatia, serbia, epyr, crusader states (edessa-tripoli-jerussalem-antioccu-constantinopols), vlahs (romans), patzinaks, oghuzs, georgians, abhaz-chirkess (caucasia and egypt) alans, armenians, persians, arab states, habeshs(ethiopia) and minor turk states )

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If you want that kind of coverage play Crusader kings. Half of them will be included as rebel factions. And the Crusader states will be part of France. Catalans would be part of Aragon if they are still around. Vlach's, Croatians, Czech's, Austrians, alans, Armenians, Welch, Irish, Navarese, all rebel factions. About the only eastern european factions you could make a strong case for including are Lithuania and Serbia.

Because they can't have all the factions that exist in 1080 then have them evolve into the factions that exist in 1530 CA splits the difference and combines many small regional states into 1 big one.

Now these are all from MTW, I actually took the time to read the faction descriptions.
Holy Roman empire -represents ALL the constituent duchies and kingdoms of the empire as 1 faction
The Italians -represents All the city states of northern Italy.
The Turks -represents All the Seljuk states and the Ottoman state.
The Spainish -represents All the Iberian christian kingdoms (Portugal included) save Aragon. Which they put in as it was the only other strong one.
The Egyptians -represented All the pre-Mamluk dynasties in the early era (1087-1205) then the Mamluks from the high era on.
The Russians -represent All Rus Knyaz from the high (1205-1321) era onward.
The Almohads -they represent All Berber factions in western north Africa and in Spain.

For M2TW CA made some changes they split the Italians into Venice and Genoa. They took Portugal out of the Spainish faction and made them their own. This might have been nessisary to include the new world and the age of exploration. I just hope that Portugal didn't cost Aragon, I loved Aragon. The Almohads are renamed the Moors. This means that you can't complain the the faction ruling southern Iberia doesn't exist in 1080.

Also Molvania! I Want Molvania!

Molvania? You read that crap book? :laugh4:

I hope the romanian provinces aren't HUNGARIAN ANY MORE!!! :furious3:

lars573

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Originally Posted by lars573

You've got to be joking. The focus of the Medieval games is on western europe. They get the lions share of faction (and unit) diversity. Bulgaria was as important to european history as Portugal. The Abbasi Caliphs are Egypt. Khwarizmians might be includee as early on Timurids. The Swiss and Burgundians were in MTW, they might be back again.

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not joke...
enemy cultures "as for when many thinness"
game be meaningless...

because... all games "easy victory"

I want balanced game...
...........................................................

edyzmedieval

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Molvania? You read that crap book?

I hope the romanian provinces aren't HUNGARIAN ANY MORE!!!

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I write "my recommendations map" turkish province names...
yours give "big reaction"

at that straight moment ... romania ... not romanianss...
be ... hungar and cuman countries...

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Originally Posted by lars573

Vlach's, Croatians, Czech's, Austrians, alans, Armenians, Welch, Irish, Navarese, all rebel factions. About the only eastern european factions you could make a strong case for including are Lithuania and Serbia.

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Is there a way to play as said Rebel factions? Why can't I belong to an official faction?:wall: Though I was quite haoppy about the inclusion of the Armenian in Rome: Total War.

'Molvania? You read that crap book?'

You're just jealous because no one has written any books about Romania.

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Originally Posted by IrishArmenian

Is there a way to play as said Rebel factions? Why can't I belong to an official faction?:wall: Though I was quite haoppy about the inclusion of the Armenian in Rome: Total War.

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No they are just rebels. But in all TW games when a province revolts it creates a rebel faction.

Take this screen as an example.
https://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7650/FunnyRebels2.jpg

In MTW if you held your cursor over a rebel army they would have a name like "The Vlach's", "The Bulgarians", "The Prussians" and so on. The ethos behind it is that any faction that existed at the time that wasn't worth including was included as a rebel faction.

IrishArmenian...

in RTW... armenian faction... real: this a persian faction... not armenian faction.

armenia = high grounds... (district names... not national names)
......................................

lars573

lesbian rebels...?

real ""lesbos island"" (turkish midilli) .....
...

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Originally Posted by lars573

But in all TW games when a province revolts it creates a rebel faction.

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every province ..... another rebel faction...
much nonsense ... much bad...

I think... example: germany:
all german provinces ... be "local people" etnic german...
and that provinces "more loyal" ....

this idea... more have logic..

Vlachs?
They don;t even have a state,after Slavs invasion of Balkan peninsula they were largely killed or asimilated,after invasion they went to hills and gratuadly adopts slavic names and culture.After invasion name Vlach represent a Cattle breder who live in the hills.How there can be even the rebel faction called the vlachs?Also need to say Vlachs were people of Byzantine(called as Romani,not the Romans).
As far as Sebia,after year of 1330 and the Battle of Velbuzd Serbia become the greatest and the strongest faction on the Balkans,no one can say difrently.Yes I am a Serb as you all can mention,but I try to be objective.Byzantine after Slavic Invasion was really weak,there were only few great emperors that rulled over the Byzantine like Basil I,then Basil II bulgariankiller(sorry Stephen Asen he got his nickname after he defet Samuilo at the battle on Mountain Belasica,he blind 14000 bulgarian soldiers).I know you can say Samuilo wasn't Bulgar,but I don't want to go so far at history talking.After them only dynastyy of Komninus were strong,Manojlo I and Aleksije I,were strong Emperors who strenghetend Byzantine once again.I dont have good opinion about the other Emperors of Byzantine.So someone can ask why do I talk so much abaout this?
This is becouse both Serbia and Bulgaria need to be in the game so they can constantly harase Byzantine Empire as they do during the whole middle age.Byzantine many times were in the mercy of both Bulgaria and Serbia,and their havily fortificated city of Constantinopole were crushed down before the Smederevo(capital of Serbia in the Time of Otoman conquest of Serbia).
To Stefan Asen,I dont realy think that Bulgaria ever was the III military power in Europe,couse you didn't mentioned Kiev Rusia,Poland,and of course Hungary,who was real pain in the ass for all balkan country.
Also i want to say that it could be realy good that lithuania be in the game becouse they were Military great faction althow politicaly were not so great.

I did say that Serbia and Lithuania were the only eastern european factions that you could make a case for including. They were independant of a larger faction when the game starts (unlike Bulgaria). And were independant over the long term. Plus having in Lithuania would mean one last pagan faction.

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Originally Posted by Tzar Dusan of Serbs

Vlachs?

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Yes. But rebel factions are tied to a province, unless the rebel army moves. In MTW the Vlach's would pop-up in Wallachia. The Moldovans in Moldovia, the Serbs in Serbia, the Rhomanoi in Constantinople (possibly Greece and Nicea, I'd have to check), the Scots in Scotland, the Irish in Ireland, the Welsh in Wales, The Armenians in lesser Armenia and Armenia, you see where I'm going.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

lars573

lesbian rebels...?

real ""lesbos island"" (turkish midilli) .....

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Yeah it's a joke by CA, one of the many that permiate all TW games. Like how in VI the higher levels of the spy training building is called a Cunnywarren (ofcourse you have to speak British to get the joke :laugh4: ) , which is an upgrade of a brothel.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

IrishArmenian...

in RTW... armenian faction... real: this a persian faction... not armenian faction.

armenia = high grounds... (district names... not national names)

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No, Armenians are not Persians. The Armenians are an indiginous people of Anatolia. Like the Carians and the Lycians.

armenia = high grounds... (district names... not national names)

armenians language: armenian national names = HAYK
armenians language: not armenia = HAYASTAN

at that straight moment ... absent armenian state...
at that straight moment.. real: this a PERSİAN faction... not armenian faction...

antiq age armenia: all: language- culture- dinasty- population persian...
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this a district names... not never national names.
in medieval there are be a "muslim turk faction" names armenia...
armen-shahs faction. (1100-1207).... capital ahlat..