If you played the ball more and less the guy you would be moderating this forum by now... how is that for punishment. :dizzy2:
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If you played the ball more and less the guy you would be moderating this forum by now... how is that for punishment. :dizzy2:
If I wanted a sucking head wound where my brains leaked out, I would just ask for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
What did you do to deserve banishment into moderatoring the backroom? :inquisitive:
Your punishment is harsher then mine.....:laugh4:
Besides sometimes you have to foul to get your point across. Unfortunately instead of a one point shot - I caused a two shot foul....:oops: Coach is really pissed at me, I wonder if I will be sent to the bench for the rest of the game.......:wall:
~:grouphug:
~:pat:
:shakehands:
Back On Topic!
The only real way I can see is eliminate the demand for the immigrants, for then the supply will dry up.
What to do - if a company or individual employs illegal aliens, we liquidate their assets. To facilitate this, there will be rewards for correct information on such an employer. IE, if you correctly finger such a criminal, you get 10% of the assets, tax free.
Plus the employer gets jail time and a felony to his name. I think that would dry it up pretty quickly. :2thumbsup:
The flow of immigrants across the Mexican border would, I think, drop significantly within five years, to the point where existing security could handle the challenge of securing the border.
It's amazing how conservatives complain about political correctness until they want to use PC to jump all over a political opponent about a word like "darkie", ignoring its context and intent. At least one of these same conservatives have used words like "homos" for gays and other nonPC terms.
Recent posts imply that I used the word "darkie". I didn't; I merely defended the point that the forumer who did write it was making. I think I understand why he used it. I'll let him explain it if he wants to.
Redleg has gotten the intent of the immigration laws mixed up with its practice. I don't blame the US government for having some controls on immigration. I applaud the fact that there is currently no language requirement (as an ESL teacher and linguist, I could write a whole article on this issue).
My complaint is how the law is being applied. People from certain countries, cultures, and perceived races are not given the same treatment as people of others. To think that the immigration laws are being enforced fairly is fantasy, or as the conservatives like to say, näive.
When I wrote about the checkpoint, my words were quite clear. This is not a border crossing, where they check documents and speak to all people crossing, as Redleg described. This is a situation in which cars pass through at a reduced speed on a freeway and HS personnel stare into the car windshields and determine who they will stop. I emphasized that perceived race was about the only realistic criterion they could use to discriminate.
Recently someone stated that the immigrantion policies of the United States were racist geared to keep certain groups out. Given the history of immigrantion from countries from the same hemisphere of the United States and the recent news from the adminstration. The past granting of amensities by at least two adminstration geared to the illegal immigrants from our south, and the current plan.
I wonder if the two main individuals that espoused such a view point realize now that the "racist" immigrantion polices are not toward the group that they decided to degrade with a certain term.
Accuastions such as this TachikazeRedleg has gotten the intent of the immigration laws mixed up with its practice when faced with the reality of what goes on in immigrantion demonstrates very well that the individual who has a misunderstanding of immigrantion, the law in regards to immigrantion and the application of it in reality is yourself.
send em to iraq and afganistan to fight in the war, then if they survive for 10 years or so, let them in
No I don't think the immigration policies are racist. I think that the large scale objection to illegal mexican immigration is largely predicated on racism. There is a world of difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
I would have answered by corner sooner - but the backroom wasn't working for the last couple of days :laugh4:
Basically the law on this board is that you can't lampoon right wing americans as they can dish it out but can't take it.
Basically the "law" on this board is that you can't dish out personal attacks or slander whole groups of people without facing consequences, regardless of your or your target's position in the left-right spectrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
That "members" of each "camp" regularly complain about unequal treatment could of course be seen as an indication that the system somehow works :juggle2:
A rather difficult point of law. How can we decide what counts as slander? Dave is regularly calling homosexuals depraved - they are a group of people. Palestinians are called terrorists and barbarians regularly - any consequences of that? How about 'commies'? They are a group of people - I have seen some posters demand they be shot. Does that count?Quote:
you can't dish out personal attacks or slander whole groups of people
You mods do a difficult job - but this board is effectively an american space, and american political norms, prejudices and conventions hold sway.
:canada: Ree-hee-hee-heeeeeely?
So are you African, European, Asian or Australasian then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Well you just proved once again that the board is fairily moderated.
I wonder what would happen to any nation besides the United States if it had 500,000 to 1,000,000 illegal immigrants attempt to gain entrance - and actually do gain entrance into their nations.
I can pretty much guess that answer.
And race wouldn't have a play in that answer either.
The nationality of one or other moderator is irrelevant to the point anyhow. It's about the overiding paradigm of the board. The mainstay opinion of this board is:
- Capitalism is good
- America is a benign force in the world
- America is the best place in the world
- Palestinians are terrorists
- Gays are perverts
- Socialism means making everyone speak Russian and being miserable
These opinions are held and maintained by 80% of posters and any attempt to challenge them is met with incredulity and derision. Like you are saying something just to be awkward.
The funny (or perhaps not quite so funny) thing is that your are probably really believing that this the case - just as some other patrons believe that the complete opposite is the case ... go figureQuote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Well actually you can't guess the answer because you don't have a clue. The developing world copes with by far the greatest number of refugees and migrations, legal or otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
UNHCR Refugee Stats 2005
Don't even think about it. You were implying American=USA, not North American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Even if you did mean North America, which you didn't, which "American political norms" were you speaking of? Gay marriage? Gun control? Iraq? Marijuana legislation? Socialized medicine? Trade with Cuba? Nuclear weapons?
Goodness knows all of North America respect the same political norms.
:canada::unitedstates: Yep. We're practically clones. :yes:
If you want to confuse inferrance for implication, that's your own lookout :balloon2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Kind of like your comments about illegal immigrantion in the United States. Ie you haven't a clue.
I wonder if you looked at the numbers and the way those numbers are dispersed across the develeping world.
I wonder if you understand the impact of those population increases over a short time on those countries.
Then I wonder if you have been paying attention to what is happening in Europe just on legal immigrantion issues, and their impact upon those populations.
Then I wonder if you looked at the time periods involved with the refugee issues that that report deals with. I wonder if you realize that many of those same nations are getting outside help from other nations and organization to help assist them with the issue.
Then I wonder if you have looked into the status of your nation's immigrantion issues.
Face it Idaho the individual who doesn't have a clue about illegal immigrantion issues and its impact on the United States is yourself.
I gathered that from the fact that you never responded to the initial post - which happened way before anyone got warning points.
My own nation's immigration policy is based on racism. The average UK citizen would probably want even tougher immigration policies based on their racism.
As for immigration issues in the US. I stand by my assertion that the problems of low wages, poor provision of public services and crime are blamed on immigration and are not necessarily caused by it.
Please allow me to introduce a little reality to you. Its not about race. If Swedon was stuck on the ass end of the US and we had millions of Swedes illegally entering the US, there would be the exact same reaction. Its not about race, you and many people of your political leanings make EVERYTHING about race. Its just easier to cry racism than face reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Poor provisions of public services? Its obviously much better than Mexico's. If the US would deny these services then the immagration problem would be much less. Why don't all the illegals in MY country march in protest against MEXICO for doing such a bad job with its economy and it's own social(ist) services.
Get off the racism complaint. Its old and tired, much like the foolish idea that the government should be in charge of everything and personal responsibility means nothing. :juggle2:
Yes because that's exactly how it works over here in communist europe. The government control EVERYTHING :idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
You pay more taxes and obey more rules than I do on a daily basis. The US is a totally rules based society with huge penalties if someone contravenes those rules. You're the ones with the gun to your head.
However we are not discussing Englands racist issues as it regards immigrantion. So don't bring your own racial issues to a discussion that is not about race - but illegal immigrantion. IQuote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
I see your still ducking the questionsQuote:
As for immigration issues in the US. I stand by my assertion that the problems of low wages, poor provision of public services and crime are blamed on immigration and are not necessarily caused by it.
And you are still missing most of the picture - people state that illegal immigrantion contributes to the problem. There are more factors to the equation then just the impact of illegal immigrantion. I could go into the poor education levels of the majority of americans, the entitlement society that has taken hold of many people, the fact that capitialism has indeed caused some of our problems (ie outsourcing of jobs is indeed a capitialist method of insuring profit) and several other relative facts to the decrease in wages, the poor provisions of public services and yes even crime.
DD:Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
I wish it were not so, but a small number of the more Paleolithic right-wingers are motivated by race on their stance regarding immigration. I wish they would evolve, but it's a free country and their stupidity is just as protected as any other point of view. Sadly, I'm pretty sure my mom is motivated by some of this attitude~:mecry: . Even though their motivation is silly, they still have ended up on the correct side of this issue -- even a blind squirrel can stumble across an acorn from time to time.
I do agree with you that a majority of Americans would be -- and are -- just as angry about the illegals from China and Ireland as we are with those from Mexico. It is glaringly obvious however, as you suggest in your second paragraph, that Mexico is the only country whose policies are demonstrably aiding and abetting this illegal activity -- it is, in effect, on ongoing non-violent robbery of the American economy by the Mexican government. Unfortunately, too many of our own businesses and a substantial slice of our government are colluding with the Mexican government in this. In my opinion it is this aspect which accounts for the vehemence of a majority of the anti-illegal alien sentiment here.
I do agree with you whole-heartedly that attempting to label all opposition to the illegal aliens with a "racist" label is wrong and contributes little to the discussion -- but I am sadly aware that a few of those idiots are out there.
Legal immigrants seem to be divided as well then I see. My mother and uncle both are legal immigrants from India. My mom has little problem with the illegal immigration problem as well as my uncle. I haven't talked with them too much on the issue, but from what I've gathered, they seem sympathetic a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
In response to a thread that got locked because it was on a similar topic.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64801
Well, I think it may not be a bad idea. If we could get the Mexican government to help in the process, I think we could really get this to work.
If we are willing to 'police' in Iraq and everything, than we should do some work to make the whole world better. I know, it's not our job to spend our hard earned money to make the world better, but I know American people to be nice like that.
Heh I nver stated my solution.
I say let them stay if they speak english, pay all their back taxes (at a rate of which they make minimum wage if their wages are below minimum wage), and do a tour of duty in Iraq.
I'm sure having them do a tour of duty in Iraq would never fly with most liberals, but I don't think it's too bad an idea. Only problem is we'd have to train them. Don't know if it'd work too well.:juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
Works quite well. There is a significant portion of the military that is hispanic. Factor in the Phillipine and Peutro Rico citizens that are also eligible to enlist in the United States Military - you have a decent percentage of the current military that speak Spanish enough to train any spanish speaking enlisted soldier. If I remember correctly all non-english speaking enlisted soldiers have to take a basic english course while in basic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon
The problem is that it will not fly politically since it basically is indentured or forced enlistment.
Maybe a hispanic battalion or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg