The Will of the Senate - out of character thread II

I think removing the 'father' traits will be very disruptive to character evolution. Characters tend to evolve in a single direction. Without these traits, especially the 'not like his father' trait, in several generations all the members of a family line will have extreme values for the traits their fathers started with. We need the 'mutation' of this trait to keep the balance.
We should look for another way to solve this. Initally, removing the offending traits from 'wierd' characters seems to be a better option.

Here's a good thread on diplomacy :
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...howtopic=21614
Seems like Marcus will try to improve the diplomacy settings in RTR 1.6

EDIT : The discussion considering the trait problem starts from this page :
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...ic=8656&st=340

EDIT : RomeSage can be downloaded here :
http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=448

RomeSAGE currently supports the following options:
o Campaign difficulty
o Battle difficulty
o Battle time limit on or off (as per MarkP's great TiLiN tool).
o Short or long campaign
o Changing the unit scale (also known as unit size).
o Changing year and season. This does not undo any other changes that may have occurred in the game.

So unfortunately this does not allow us to edit traits on existing characters. We could downtune the campaign difficulty to make diplomacy more effective.

There is however a Traits and Ancillaries File Validator that helps to find errors in the traits file, and I know Marcus uses it, so there are no obvious errors in the 4TPY mod.
http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=670

There is also an Ancillary Editor :
http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=787

EDIT :
Couple of weeks ago I went to the trouble of finding a very good and funny thread on traits and got the moderator to pin it :
Miniguide to your Generals command trait increasing
Read it at your leisure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Your failed negotiations with Germany, Iberia, Illyria, Greece and Macedon removed your + influence traits. You currently get +3 from two ancilleries and have no traits at all.

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No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not happy!

I finally found out how to remove (and add) traits to characters during the game :

For all details, see my post on the RTRPE forum

I suggest all nonsense traits to be removed from the 'warped' characters and their military service reset to a 'normal' level.

EDIT :
This gives us very interesting possibilities for role-playing in the senate.
We could for example give a character the 'disgraced' trait if he is succesfully impeached by the senate.
Augustus Verginius qualifies for 'dispises Trouser Wearers' or 'hates smelly barbarians'
The possibilities are endless : Glory Hunter, Great Orator, Spin Doctor, etc...
Note : many of these traits are no longer present in RTRPE or have other names.

That looks somewhat confusing, but I think we can figure it out. I particularly like the idea of adding traits to a character. Stuff like 'disgraced' could be added through motions like anything else. For example:

Motion 0.0: This Motion impeaches Senator Bob Smith and gives him the 'disgraced' trait.

TinCow,

I like THAT idea alot!! Obviously the unfortunate could win his honour back and be accepted by the Senate to have that trait removed again....

....capital idea.

TinCow: your mail box is full, please can you clean up some space so I can PM you? (although the short reply to your last PM is "fine").

Could someone please post something like :

That's amazing research work, DDW. You rule ! Keep it up !

It would do wonders for my ego. :trytofly:

(Having a bad day at the office and have to do taxes tonight :wall:)

Quote:

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That's amazing research work, DDW. You rule ! Keep it up !

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That's amazing research work, DDW. You rule ! Keep it up !

That's amazing research work, DDW. You rule ! Keep it up !

That's amazing research work, DDW. You rule ! Keep it up !

Thanks a lot :2thumbsup:
I feel better already :balloon2:

I mean it-- ----(0-0)
------ - - -----( ^ )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by econ21

TinCow: your mail box is full, please can you clean up some space so I can PM you? (although the short reply to your last PM is "fine").

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Sorry, even with a 75 limit it gets filled up fast in this PBM. Emptied out a ton.

I will give the trait editing a try tonight. If successful I will edit remove "Military Service - 8 Years" and "Former Legate" from our first problem child, Marcus Laevinus. He has a ton of other traits that I think should be removed or reduced, but I don't want to do that unilaterally. Opinions on what else should be altered, if anything, are welcome.

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...evinus_271.jpg

Also, it seems I won't be AWOL this weekend. My wife and I were going to go backpacking, but the weather report shows severe rain all three days, so we're going to postpone.

Bummer about the backpacking, TinCow. I think I will still go sailing sunday, but it will also be miserable weather here then. Still looking for volunteers to man the boat ~:)

I say leave him all those other traits, none of them are 'earned' traits. I might be a trial for Marcus Laevinus to deliver an agitated, restrained, yet tedious speech that does credit to his being a political animal tough ~:)
If you have trouble let me know, and tell me which save game and I'll have a look myself.

Thanks again, x-dANGEr, some days it is wiser just to stay in bed :coffeenews:
At least I've finally got the bloody taxes done. Do you believe the Dutch tax service has 'We can't make it any more fun' as their credo ??? The gall of these people !

It works. For future reference, here are the commands to use for the two I have done so far:

Removes any "Former _____" trait:
give_trait "CHARACTER NAME" "Former_Military_Service" 0

Removes all Military Service if the starting amount is 9 years or less:
give_trait "CHARACTER NAME" "Military_Service_Years_1to9" 0

I'm glad DDW and TinCow have made such good progress with the traits. You could ask Dutch_guy what he thinks about his traits, but I agree with DDW what's left seem ok - quite an interesting personality, in fact!

TinCow, I've edited the Senate Library to reflect the transfer of Vibius Pleminius from Zomby_woof to x-DANGEr.

I'm wondering about a "statute of limitations" on Senate motions. Say after 20 years, they are void unless put to a new vote? That - together with the rule that earlier motions trump later ones unless expressly invalidated - might avoid some of the complications with contradictory legislation.

So far I've been deleting them from the Library (essentially removing them from law) once I've seen that they've been fulfilled or made redundant. Let's say that from now on, all motions apply only to the current Consulship, unless the motion states otherwise.

I think Motion 3.13 should remain permanent, but the rest of the remaining motions from sessions 1-4 should be pretty much obsolete after my term (1.5 expires anyway, 1.9 is obsolete, I frankly don't care about 1.10 and neither have occurred yet anywya, 4.7 has been tried I think)

Well done, Tincow.
I agree with motions lasting only the consul's term, except if they are really permanent.

Permanent motions in my view :
3.13
4.7 (just keep trying I say. They'll give in eventually, in 100 years or so.)
6.11

I must say I found 1.10 a nice touch, but I don't particulary care also. With only six ancilliaries there are so many other ones I want ~:)

About motion 1.10, is there a way to give an ancillary to a character like traits? If not could we perhaps decide upon a trait that is close to the same thing, and give that using what DDW found out.

P.S. That's amazing research work, DDW. You rule ! Keep it up !

Good thinking Glaucus,

I'll look into that soon. There are several traits that would qualify and I'd have to make a list. There is also the Ancillary Editor, but I have not tested that yet.

Off to bed,
Cheerio,
Lodewijk (DDW)

EDIT : p.s. and thanks ~:)

I would prefer a trait to an ancillary, since I need all the military ones I can get at the moment.

Simon, nice touch at the end of your write up with the seasons/men left. Reminded me of the episode of Battlestar Gallictica I was watching last night, were after every Cylon attack they would re-calculate the number of human souls left...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi

Simon, nice touch at the end of your write up with the seasons/men left. Reminded me of the episode of Battlestar Gallictica I was watching last night, were after every Cylon attack they would re-calculate the number of human souls left...

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Subconsciously, that could be where I got the idea from[1]. I love that show. I've seen up to the end of the latest series and it just keeps getting better. Some of the characters are quite mesmerising.

[1]Although the most memorable countdown I ever saw was on the blackboard of a Kenyan primary school classroom "278 days to the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education" (ie an exam). Poor kids. :no:

Here is a list of traits that could replace the Librarian or Scribe. This is most likely not a complete list and some of these traits may not exists in RTRPE.

Sane is a very powerful (hidden) trait as it makes you immune to all kinds of nasty traits.

Lively is one of the best traits you can have.

I am inclined to suggest giving the Office of Aedile to Lucius and the Office of Censor to Augustus, but I am open to all views.

Bureaucrat
Engineer
Epic Poet
Even-Handed
Excellent Builder
Expert
Firm Personal Morality
Fond of Ribald Rhymes
Genius
Good Honest Roman
Great Architect
Great Builder
Honest
Intelligent
Jobs-worth
Just
Lively
Logistician
Logistics Expert
Master Trader
Mathematician
Natural Philosopher
No Enemies
Office of Aedile
Office of Censor
Philosopher
Philosophically Inclined
Philosophy Expert
Poet
Sane
Sharp
Skilled Bureaucrat
Strategic Expert
Strategist
Superb Bureaucrat
Superior Builder
Superior Engineer
Superior Trader
Tactical Expert
Tactician
Tax Assessor
Trader
True Roman
Understanding of Logistic
Understanding of Mathematics
Understanding of Philosophy
Understanding of Strategy
Understanding of Tactics
Upright
Very Lively
Virtus

For the menaing of the traits I refer you to Spartan's Trait guide

On Battlestar Galactica, except for the gorgeous Cylon girl, I can't say I found it as good as the old series. 'Face' just made that series :laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds

I am inclined to suggest giving the Office of Aedile to Lucius and the Office of Censor to Augustus

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I agree - the Censor is responsible for the census, which is close to what TinCow is doing in the Senate Library. AFAIK, it gives +3 influence +2 management, so it is quite a nice reward but then the job is quite onerous too.

The Aedile is responsible for maintenance and public order, which is close to what DDW is doing keeping up with the software issues. It gives +1 law +1 management, so it is no big deal but if DDW is happy with it, so I am.

Quote:

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On Battlestar Galactica, except for the gorgeous Cylon girl, I can't say I found it as good as the old series. 'Face' just made that series :laugh4:

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You mean the old Starbuck? True, he was fun although I am quite captivated by his female replacement. But there really was no one else interesting in the older show. The good thing about the current series is the acting ensemble - just compare Baltar this time round (a sort of Dr Bashir from DS9 gone bad on crack) with the insipid chap last time or, even more tellingly, compare the Boomers. The lead Cylon girl does not do much for me (aside from when she played the vulnerable Pegasus prisoner), but Boomer is pretty interesting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For example, there is a scene towards the end of the first series where she is a crying emotional wreck with the Chief one second, then leaves the room and strides confidently across the deck like a jackbooted Nazi the next. That split second transformation was just awesome, given the accompanying plot revelation.

Sorry for getting off-topic.

Good to see a few BSG fans. It's the absolute favorite show in my house.

I agree with the Censor and Aedile traits as well. The +3 influence isn't that big a deal for Verginius because he's at 9 influence at the moment anyway, and I believe 10 is the max.

I'm prefectly happy with the office of Aedile. Considering countdowns, the most ghastly one I've seen is the Death clock (google), which is probably the most depressing thing ever coded.

Sorry ive been sidetracked for a bit. Whats the latest with the campaign?

Read the First Consul Reports. It's up to date. Though perhaps the last couple pages of the Deliberations are worth reviewing as well. (Everything since the interim session finished.)

the FCRs mostly deal with our landing in Greece. Has anything happened on our northern border? Where is Legio III at the moment?

why don't you update your save folder with the latest save, and check it out?

Just to say, I've posted the latest of Quintus's Apollonia diary.