The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations III

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: First Consul, I do not object to the reinforcing of Gaius Rutilus. However, I do question the decision to send him to Melite in the first place. Such missions are the responsibility of Senators of the Lower House. It is for that reason that I am pressing the issue of redeploying more of such men to the Southern front.

I second your call for the destruction of Carthage. But that merely strengthens my call for the redeployment of Lower House generals to the southern front. The south is where the storm is gathering.

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Originally Posted by econ21

[b][i][NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]
And the issue is: what is the Republic at heart? A crude economic arrangement, managed by dessicated calculating machines, interested only in the cost and benefit? Or a body of people, bound together by common culture, ruled by men of blood and honour?

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It seems clear to me that you have surely forgotten the purpose of the republic senator. The purpose of the republic is to create a nation where Roman citizens can be represented equally, to prosper, be strong, and create for their children and their children's children a world better than the one they had. Unforetunatly, this sometimes means the elimination of another people, or the abandonment of one that cannot be saved except in the distant future. This says to me that all citizens of Rome who hold this view true are men of blood, men of honor. You seem only interested in expanding the Republic's lands, growing her military and sending more men to their deaths, deaths you have used to try and push your ideals by noting the unforetunate loss of Roman life at Melite. You follow a backwards philosophy senator.

It is also strange that you should mention common culture, while at the same time forgetting that the Republic currently embodies lands far from the heart of Roman culture and ideals. Greece, Macedon, old Carthaginian lands, sections of Gaul, Thrace, even the former southern hill tribes of Italy, the Samnites and such, followed a different culture than that of Rome. Rome is far from being a singularly cultured nation, and that is because of this blatant expansionism exhibited by yourself and others. There must be a period of cultural growth across the republic as a whole to realise what you claim Rome to be, but you do not wish to give the Republic that time to take such words into action, as the Aemilii would. My family has pushed strongly for Roman expansion to draw a breathe, to work far more significantly on infrastructure and culture, all beneficial internal growth to Rome. I cannot recall you doing anything but urging the conquering of other people.

And while we are on the subject, Roman Citizenship, right now senators that is a very, very, very limited ideal. I think it may be time to extend this right to some of our most supportive and long held provinces. I will make a motion during the next senate sessions to work towards full auxilian prefectures, a provincial barracks, and then Roman citizenship for any provinces that have been held by and proven to be loyal supporters of the Republic for the last fifteen years. The people, and most notably the children of these provinces have been thoroughly Romanized, and we all know, the future begins with the children. These lands will be the strongest supporters of Rome in the many many years to come, and they have been thus far. They deserve a reward senators, let us grant them citizenship.

A messenger arrives with word from Cornelius Saturninus.

"Ave senators, I trust all is well? I bring news of the repulsion of the Thracian force at the Danube crossing. There are a few more scattered troops around the area, a retaliation may be likely. Arapeithes the Bloody Handed also lurks near by, he may gather the seperate forces into a dangerous army. Shall I stay here at the fort or cross the Danube myself to seek out the Thracians while they are seperated and weak?"

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...3&postcount=42

Notice on the senate door :
Command is offically transferred to co-consul Publius Pansa. Kindly direct your requests and pleas to him from now on.

OCC: My report will be finished tomorrow night, kindly refrain from posting in the first consul thread untill I have posted.

OCC: As is clear from Wonderland's battle report, which I liked a lot by the way, it is best to post the legion (if you are defending) on the river crossing itself, instead of in a fort, as then you will get the benefit of defending the crossing.

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Originally Posted by Lucjan

It is also strange that you should mention common culture, while at the same time forgetting that the Republic currently embodies lands far from the heart of Roman culture and ideals. Greece, Macedon, old Carthaginian lands, sections of Gaul, Thrace, even the former southern hill tribes of Italy, the Samnites and such, followed a different culture than that of Rome. Rome is far from being a singularly cultured nation, and that is because of this blatant expansionism exhibited by yourself and others. There must be a period of cultural growth across the republic as a whole to realise what you claim Rome to be, but you do not wish to give the Republic that time to take such words into action, as the Aemilii would. My family has pushed strongly for Roman expansion to draw a breathe, to work far more significantly on infrastructure and culture, all beneficial internal growth to Rome. I cannot recall you doing anything but urging the conquering of other people.

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*applauds*

You are correct to point out Senator the diverse cultural, religious and ethnic make-up of our greatly expanded Republic. We are far from a homogenous whole as Numerius claims

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And while we are on the subject, Roman Citizenship, right now senators that is a very, very, very limited ideal. I think it may be time to extend this right to some of our most supportive and long held provinces. I will make a motion during the next senate sessions to work towards full auxilian prefectures, a provincial barracks, and then Roman citizenship for any provinces that have been held by and proven to be loyal supporters of the Republic for the last fifteen years. The people, and most notably the children of these provinces have been thoroughly Romanized, and we all know, the future begins with the children. These lands will be the strongest supporters of Rome in the many many years to come, and they have been thus far. They deserve a reward senators, let us grant them citizenship.

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The subject of citizenship is something I have discussed with my co-consul in private. I would welcome a debate on this in our next session. But know this Senators, it is not some cheap trinket to be passed out with gay abandon!

I have spoken in private with my grandfather and yourself, consul Publius Pansa, and I have come to feel that the cities of Ancona and Capua have long since deserved citizenship, and are being slighted in not receiving it. But, as you say, we must remember a careful balance, handing out citizenry like candy would only serve to destabalise the empire. It must be noted though, that Paestum and Arrettium have suffered as much as Ancona and Capua, but I feel it would be wiser to first resolve our conflicts with Carthage before extending the right to them as well. The formation of Roman heartlands outside of the city of Rome itself could only benefit the Republic.

Further more, the Republic now constitutes a realm of more than 300,000 people. Granting citizenry to Capua and Ancona now would place the Republic in a position of one roman citizen for every ten freemen or slaves. Following the resolution of our conflict with Carthage, and the granting of citizenry to Arretium and Paestum, it could be estimated to be around one citizen for every twelve to fifteen freemen or slaves. I fail to see how this could be an unfair number, and urge the senators to consider these things in the upcoming elections.

I applaud the noble initiative of my grandson, Servius Aemilius.
As you are well aware I have on several occasion praised our Italian allies, both Etruscan and Latin, for their valour in battle and for the sacrifices they were willing to make for the Republic.
It has been my privilge to lead the Legio I Italia Victrix for many years, and never have I had any occasion for complaint, on the contrary, I have been filled with pride at their achievements.
I have made a long explanation to my grandson on the importance of a balance between citizens and non-citizens in our society, which I will present again when the issue is raised during the next senate session.
His initiative has my full support.

*A messenger arrives in the Senate. He is tired, dirty, dishevelled and extremely agitated. The Speaker gives him permission to speak*

"Conscript Fathers - grave news, grave news! As you may be aware Co-Consul Publius Pansa recently took Maronia from the Ptolomites and drove their reinforcements back across the Sea of Marmara. He expected to have to hold the city against Egyptian counter-attacks, but it is not to be.

The Seleucids have crossed the straits with a massive army and laid siege to the city!

I managed to sneak through their lines to race back to Rome with this message. The assault was clearly going to be made soon, no doubt the battle has already been fought as I bring you this message. I fear it is too late to bring offerings to the Gods for a Roman victory"

[IMG]https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/...board33ts4.jpg[/IMG]

I told you so. I warned against taking lands from the Ptolemies, I warned against Debeltos, I warned against Byzantion, but it seems there are too many foolhardy men here that intelligent precautions needn't be taken when something looks appatising. It's a wonder some of you have lived this long.

Now look what we have. A war against Ptolemy, Thrace, the Seleucids, and Carthage. Did I not predict a war against four neighbors of vast territorial strength? I hope you all go home and pray tonight that Iberia does not see this blatant oppertunity and engage our western borders.

May the gods only ignore the arrogance of some and bestow their blessings on co-consul Pansa during this siege, he is not among those to be blamed, he is simply the messenger of some blind senators' wills.

My thoughts go to him at this time, twas my only wish to be able to serve the Republic as he has and will continue to do........

......curse my lack of years!

If I can help in anyway, I'd be honored.

As for now, I hope Publius manages to drive the Seleucid horde back.

:balloon2:

The honoured Senator Publius has no sturdy walls in which to deflect the attackers......if he bests the Selucids with his force, a force I have to add that does not contain enough sturdy Romans, he will be surely worthy of our highest accolades.

If he does not, I pledge, HERE AND NOW, to avenge his defeat or perish in the attempt!

The greed of Numerius Aureolus and his supporters has plunged the Republic into crisis. We are now at war with nearly every civilized nation in the known world. We have lost access to all trading ports in the entire eastern Mediterranean and we have be thrown into a war with Alexander\'s successors that will not end in any of our lifetimes. The Republic was in dire need of peace and stability and instead it has been given even greater wars and even fewer friends.

Rome will surely triumph over these enemies as we have over all others, but that does not excuse the actions of those who brought about this situation. The warmongering Numerius Aureolus has gravely injured the entire Republic for his personal gain.

I fear another Great Roman has died in combat...

From what I've read of the battle, it was lost even before it begun. That said, I find that our late Co Consul Publius Pansa did everything he could before falling in battle.

I do hope the Seleucid Empire gives him a fitting burial, and if not, then we'll have to do so as soon as possible.

Rest in peace Publius.

:balloon2:

Woe and the painful taking of one of the most notable of Roman son’s has befallen the Republic this day! This “Molon” has been marked and I pledge that I shall track him down unto HADES itself if needs be.

As soon as I am permitted to leave the Academies I request transfer to the East to face the Selucids.

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senator Verginius,"I told you so" may be the fitting response of a student to a crisis, but it does not befit an ex-Consul who aspires to a second term.

I do not comprehend your attempt to blame your son-in-law for first Ptolemy's attack on us and now Seleucia's.

I surmise that Ptolemy started a war by blockading our ports. The Debeltos expedition was irrelevant - she made no approach to that settlement, even though it was abandoned as the Senate apparently willed. The motion to take Byzantion was also irrelevant - the Consuls had no interest in the city and had made no move against it.

Why Ptolemy attacked, we do not know for sure. However, it seems likely that, by occupying the Macedonian cities of Philippi, Bylazora and Ratiara, we came to border her and she viewed us as a threat. I did not hear you, Senator Verginius, or student Servius Aemilius, speak out against taking those cities.

As for Seleucia, she also attacked us for reasons quite unconnected with Debeltos and Byzantion, neither of which border her lands. It was our presence at Maronia that apparently provoked here. A presence that again was due to our driving out an enemy who had attacked us - this time Ptolemy rather than Macedon. Again I recall no one in this House speaking out against expelling Egypt from Europe once she had struck at us in such an unprovoked manner.

A Co-Consul has just died. This is not the time for politicking. Romans are not to blame for the aggression of the successor states - Ptolemy and Seleucia alone are responsible for that. Use me as your strawman all you like, Verginius, maybe a few of your followers will pretend to believe you. Until the present crisis is resolved and I have killed Molon, liberating Marona, I will not return to the Senate but attend only to my military duties.

Rest in Peace Publius.

To set the record straight, the co-consul was against the taking of Byzantium, annexing of Debeltos. Also, the Seleucids did not attack Byzantium but Maronia which we capture after the Ptolemies declared war on us, so I do not see where this is a case of warmongering among the supporters of the expedition to Debeltos. As things stands, I would probably say it is a case of us trying to maintain a defense line on the Danube and reaching that line too fast with too little force on our borders. A slower expansion, longer war with Macedons and a more massive army by the time we reached our objectives would serve better to secure the border. But this is from 20-20 hindsight and we all know that all the what ifs will achieve in real life.

So now is not the time for recrimination. The way I see it is that there should not be further expansion of our territories, recapture Maronia and fortified over the land bridge into Asia Minor. Attrition war, while building up the infrastructure of our core cities to prepare for the next round. Maybe a raid or two over the borders to set up buffer states.

That's my humble opinion until I get a fuller picture from the consul report.

(seethingly)..…we shall see how easy it is for the Selucids to cross from Asia Minor when the way is slick with their blood and choked with their rotting CORPSES!

(Manius appears red-faced and close to breaking down)

Once again the true nature of Numerius Aureolus shows itself. He is a liar who seeks nothing more than personal glory. The reason for the wars with Ptolemy and Seleucia is perfectly clear. They did not like our conquests of Debeltos and Byzantium. Numerius says that it was due to Philippi, Bylazora and Ratiara, yet after we took those cities, peace still prevailed. It was only after the other two cities were taken that these wars began.

Ignorance becomes you Numerius, but the rest of us are endowed with wits through which we determine truth by logical thought. The wars began because of Debeltos and Byzantium. Debeltos and Byzantium were taken specifically because of your desire for greed and personal glory. Much of this Senate, including myself, spoke out heavy and firmly against your vanity and against the conquest of those cities. We opposed them specifically because of the risk of war with Ptolemy and Seleucia, and yet you now try to make it seem that we supported these decisions?

Your words expose you Numerius. *YOU* will kill Molon, *YOU* will liberate Marona. You are a self-serving man who will bring nothing to the Republic but ruin. Yes, go do your duties in the battle-line. You may have value with a sword, but you are a danger to all Romans when you are in the Senate.

Numerius, I don’t care for what your motives are now and I fear that you have beguiled me in supporting you previously but….

…do what you damned want with Marona, take it, liberate it, whatever! I care nought but I want Molon!

I wish to make his empty skull into a drinking vessel and my Wife wishes his most private of parts as EAR-RINGS!!

What did I say, Senators? Long ago, it seems, I spoke out against further eastward expansion, saying that war with Ptolemy OR Egypt would be suicide. Now look where we are, at war with both Eastern powers! Gah!

The Seleucids are right across the strait and can easily send reinforcements, taking Greece if they so desire. I *would* suggest suing for peace, but these warmongers in the Senate have demanded we keep expanding the military, so our treasury is emptied!

It is time to consolidate, Conscript Fathers. Deal with the threats closer to home than tangle with the mighty heirs of Alexander. Carthage looms nearby. We should focus our military efforts on her while our economy is rebuilt. I'm sure that Senators Aureolus and Coruncanius are apt to the task of defending Greece; after all they seem to do nothing but boast of their prowess.

I can only hope my warnings are heeded next time.

Fellow Senators,

In the Future I'd like to know exact names of those particular senators who are guilty of the warmongering, just for reference.

Oh, and then we can do something about them.

I'm saying this because remarking that other senators are doing such things sounds like a cheap way of clearing oneself, and certainly we Senate members are above such shameless self promoting tactics - or aren't we ?

:balloon2:

There are no secrets about who these warmongers are. At the interim session in 258, both Numerius Aureolus and Tiberius Coruncanius specifically argued for a declaration of war against Ptolemy and the conquest of Debeltos and Byzantium, even though that risked war with Seleucia as well. Well, now they have their wars and Roman blood will flow for their pride and their poor judgment.

Of course, Augustus Verginius never called for a war against anyone. Not against the Gauls, or Iberians. No, not old, docile Verginius. Why, I specifically recall him not calling for a war against the Iberians 5 years ago when it was obvious to everyone that we'd get into a major war with Macedon soon. Frankly, he's so peace-loving, that I doubt that he could ever hurt a man. Especially not a Gaul. Why, he hugs Gallic slaves whenever he passes them in the street!

{Cornelius Saturninus}

Senators,

It is with a grave heart I write this letter from my encampent along the Danube. The situation here is stable, only a small group of Thracians loom across the river, but the moral of the men is faltering due to the insurmountable odds we are facing with this new war with the Seleucids. I am keeping them as happy and confident as I can, but something must be done about this situation. They are clamoring to leave this fort and head east, to take on the bastards who killed the great Publius Pansa and destroyed Legio IV. However, I believe a quick peace with both the Ptolemies and Seleucids is necessary, or at least one or the other. Of course, if that does not come to pass, I am ready and willing to move in and take on the Seleucid aggressors. I had our agent in Maronia, Asinius Sergius, send me a report on Molon. Senators, he is not someone to scoff at.

https://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1674/molongp7.jpg
Molon, conqueror of Maronia, killer of Publius Pansa, destroyer of Legio IV.

https://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9623/sarmyqw0.jpg
Molon's army, or what's left of it after the battle. A large Seleucid army is reported to be coming from just across the channel however.

I fear our Republic is spiraling into destruction and dismay. The death of our second Consul in as many years is a tragedy indeed, but also a sign of our misguided ways. I pray to the Gods we will make the right choices in the upcoming years and restore stability to our great nation.


Cornelius Saturninus

The remaining consul, Lucius Aemilius, enters the senate in mourning dress...

Conscript fathers,

I have just been informed of the dramatic events that occured in the East. Given the state of the nation, I am forced to ask you to give me the power of a Dictator for the remainder of my term. I am aware that this exceeds the regulatory six months, but I ask you to ignore this fact in view of our current situation.
The death of my dear friend and co-consul Publius Pansa, coming so short after the death of my previous collegae Amulius Coruncanius, has saddened me deeply. This grief is only worsened by the loss of the Legio IV Gallica Firma. Roma is in mourning. I, myself, am in mourning.
Aside from the powerful nation of Iberia, we are now at war with all our neighbours. I see the senate in turmoil, now in addition to our current conflicts we have become involved in a war with the two most powerful nations of the East, and all lay the blame for this with others.
Frankly, my fellow senators, the question of blame has become irrelevant and is ultimately to be laid at the door of the agressors. I will disregard these squabbles and spell out our current situation to you.
We are in serious trouble on our Eastern frontier as we were already overexpanded there, and with the loss of the Legio IV Gallica Firma we do not even have enough troops to hold on to what we have. We have no troops to spare on our other frontiers, but reinforcements will depart Roma for Greece immediately. The new Consular Army will stay put however. We must not react to our enemies moves, otherwise we will lose the initiative. Combined with this military disaster, the loss of trade with the Ptolemaic and the Seleucid empire is hurting us very hard. We might not win this conflict due to lack of courage of our soldiers, but trough lack of money to pay for their food.
There is little to be done, but rest assured I will do it. Some of my actions may prove unpopular with the senators who lack a good grasp on reality, but I urge you all to put aside your squabbles and present the Roman people with a united front. Already, on my way here, I saw people loading their furniture on carts and preparing to flee to the hills. When I asked them about this madness, they told me the senate was panicking. I deplore you to regian your composure, gentlemen. This current lack of gravitas is severely upsetting our people.
Now, I beg your leave, as it appears I will have to teach a horse to sing

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I said I would remain silent for a while, but I did not expect Senator Verginius to go so far as calling me a liar on the floor of the Senate. Now I must defend my honour. Sometime ago, Senator Verginius challenged those who besmirched his honour to a duel. It is an interesting precedent. If applied in this case, it might have the unfortunate side effect of leaving our army facing Seleucia leaderless. Alternatively, it might have the benefit of relieving Rome of ever having to endure another term under the rule of the good Senator. It is certainly an option to ponder.

Apparently, my "lie" is my interpretation of why Ptolemy and Seleucia attacked us. Quite how such an interpretation can be a lie, I do not know. Does Senator Verginius believe I have spoken to the rulers of Ptolemy and Seleucia about their motives, but misrepresented them here? I suspect the Senator is claiming my interpretation is false, rather than knowingly false but then care with words is apparently not the man's strong suite, as shown by his spurious arguments over recent Senate motions.

Senator Verginius's "argument" is that our bordering with Egypt could not have been the motive for their attack because they waited two years before striking us. By the same "logic" we could say that our conquest of Melite was not the motive for Carthage's recent invasion because they waited even longer! Furthermore, Senators, remember - we occupied Debeltos in Spring 257. According to the First Consul's report, Ptolemy waited until Spring 256 to strike us. She waited a whole year. Hardly a close conjunction of events. The fact that she ignored an abandoned and undefended Debeltos when she did attack suggests that it was of little concern to her.

On the matter of Seleucia's declaration of war, not even the fig leaf of temporal ordering covers Verginius's conjectures. Byzantion and Maronia fell the same season, this Spring. The next season Seleucia attacked Maronia, which bordered her, and not Byzantion, which did not. Quite how the Senator infers from these events that Byzantion was the spark for war, I know not.

Members of the Lower House all have access to seers and augurs who foretell the future. I say to them, if you believe my interpretation is wrong and Senator Verginius's to be right, consult them. Look at the signs and portents made in previous years. What do they tell us about the consequences of our actions? I am confident they will confirm that if we had not taken Debeltos and if we had not taken Byzantion, but still taken Philippi and Maronia, we would still have been attacked by Ptolemy and Seleucia.

Senators, it is a harsh world we live in. Any faction we border seems inevitably to seek war with us sooner or later. That Iberia has not yet done so may be just because we have only recently shared a border with her. Remember Senators, we had a land border with Ptolemy before we had one with Iberia. I doubt any of our men stationed in Gaul sleep easy.

So much for Senator Verginius's charge that I am a liar. Now I wish to raise a specific falsehood he himself has uttered. He says that I argued for war with Egypt in the last session of Senate. Senators, consult the record! Show me where in the transcript I argued thus! For if I did call for war, it is curious that I did not second Motion 10.15 which authorised a declaration of war with Egypt.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...10&postcount=1

I will, however, hear no criticism of Senator Coruncanius - his prediction of the inevitability of war with Egypt has been proved right, as has been his older call for us to take the war to Carthage while she was weak.

So far, the fates have been less kind to Senator Marcellus Aemilius and his motion 10.14 calling for war with Iberia. If he had gotten his way, we would have been attacked by four neighbouring powers (Carthage, Thrace, Seleucia and Ptolemy), while ourselves attacking the last (Iberia). In such an event, what, exactly, I wonder, does he propose we would then have "consolidated"?!

Still, I suppose I must be charitable to Marcellus. As I say, we live in a harsh world, and there is still time for Iberia - like Macedon, Thrace, Illyria, Ptolemy and Seleucia - to turn on us despite our doing nothing whatsoever against them. In the event of such a further act of infamy, I hope all Senators in this House will have the dignity and decency not to make good Romans the scapegoats for the perfidy and aggression of our enemies!

Really now, Aureolus. Do not consider yourself blameless.

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I am confident they will confirm that if we had not taken Debeltos and if we had not taken Byzantion, but still taken Philippi and Maronia, we would still have been attacked by Ptolemy and Seleucia.

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No offensives have been directed at Philippi, and Maronia was originally Ptolemaic. Of course if we had taken Maronia we would have been attacked! Ptolemy would now be at war at us because of this action!

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Senator Verginius's "argument" is that our bordering with Egypt could not have been the motive for their attack because they waited two years before striking us. By the same "logic" we could say that our conquest of Melite was not the motive for Carthage's recent invasion because they waited even longer!

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So by your logic Ptolemy attacked us because we border her. Specifically, settlements that you have taken border her.

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Look at the signs and portents made in previous years. What do they tell us about the consequences of our actions?

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I'm afraid logic rules out here. Action - we take cities that border Ptolemy and Seleucia. Consequence - we are at war with Ptolemy and Seleucia.

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So far, the fates have been less kind to Senator Marcellus Aemilius and his motion 10.14 calling for war with Iberia. If he had gotten his way, we would have been attacked by four neighbouring powers (Carthage, Thrace, Seleucia and Ptolemy), while ourselves attacking the last (Iberia). In such an event, what, exactly, I wonder, does he propose we would then have "consolidated"?!

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10.14 was proposed back in the interim session, when Debeltos and Byzantion had yet to be taken! The motion was meant to designate Iberia as the primary military target of the Republic while we maintained our borders in the east. Had my motion passed and your eastern motions failed (which was the goal) we would not have had that problem, and you would currently be clamoring to be sent to Iberia where the action would be.

I will gladly accept a duel if you would like one Numerius.

Many more falsehoods have been created in this latest speech. First, I shall start by recounting from the scrolls your call for war with Ptolemy.

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Originally Posted by NUMERIUS AUREOLUS

We have planned to take the Danube as our frontier. Logically, that dictates expelling Egypt from Europe. If war with Egypt comes, we must strike ruthlessly to that end. With Legate Coruncanius and pro-Consul Pansa to the west of Egypt's European provinces, and Legio V soon to be stationed to their east, I believe this could be swiftly accomplished

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=544

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Originally Posted by NUMERIUS AUREOLUS

No, Senators, it is in the East that the true challenge lies. The East, where the successors of Alexander command vast Empires that rival even our expanded Repubic.

Senators, we must prepare for that challenge. Taking Byzantion from Greece is a first step. We have an opportunity to do so almost costlessly now, before Egypt or Seleucia steal the prize from under our noses.

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=580

Surely you will not claim that these statements advocated peace with our neighbors. Pah, more lies from you. Shall I recount your own blatant lies to Publius Pansa as well?

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Originally Posted by NUMERIUS AUREOLUS

After the "battle", Numerius's turns to his Greek scribe to compose a report to the Co-Consul, Publius Pansa. The Co-Consul's instruction to exterminate the town burns in the young Tribune's mind. Such an order is vile and criminal, but Numerius must tread carefully. For now, his career is dependent on the good will of the Consuls. In his half-term at the helm, First Consul Aemilius responded to Numerius's requests for the chance of battle with a weary indulgence. Numerius does not want to anger the Co-Consul. The Greek scribe looks keenly at his master, as Numerius wrestles with the wording of his communication. The scribe's sympathies are clearly with the people of Debeltos. At last, Numerius comes to a form of words that he hopes will not be considered too insurbordinate.

"Tell him we will send Praetor Coruncanius the head of Argeos. Maybe that idea will satiate the Co-Consul's bloodlust."

The Greek scribe's face looks ashen: "Who shall I task with this? One of the Samartians? Or perhaps a bastarnae?"

"Great Jove, no!" laughed Numerius. "I know Praetor Coruncanius. He will be glad to know we have avenged his son's killer. But he is not a barbarian. He voted against sending out assassins against Argeos. He is a civilised man and would not thank me for such a gift. Let the Praetor mourn his son undisturbed; let the Co-Consul think he has his pound of flesh; and let King Argeos have a decent burial, head and all."

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=38

I will not claim your actions were wrong in disobeying the Consul on this matter, but you lied in a situation where the truth was your friend. If you cannot be trusted to uphold Roman virtues even when they are your aid, how can we expect you to abide by them when they obstruct your way?

Your other arguments are transparent. You cannot hide the fact that war with Ptolemy erupted after we eliminated his last enemy in Europe. Nor can you hide the fact that war with Seleucia began only after we shared a border with him; the border itself being the direct result of your legislation and urge for eastward expansion.

Act like a true Roman Numerius and drop these pretenses. If my accusations are false, you should be so outraged at such an improper insult to your honor that you would not back down from a duel. Yet I see you hesitate even now, what does that say about you?

I will not allow my generals to fight each other while there are several wars on !

In spite of your many differences, both of you are good generals and I need you alive. You may satisfy your honour when the Temple of Janus closes their doors. If you feel you must contest, play a mock combat on Mars field instead.
You are not exactly inspiring the confidence of our citizens in our military, turning on each other while enemies cross our borders. For shame !