Things you miss about MTW.

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Originally Posted by KuriousJorj

I want to add my 2 cents worth and agree with the need for more unit variety, both within any given faction, but also add regional specific units. ...
Why on Earth would you regress and remove units in a sequel? Why bother playing beyond that? Perhaps I'm missing something, ignorant of unique units or something.

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Weird. I am pretty sure the number of units each faction has in M2TW is about the same as in MTW (I totalled them up for England it was about 30 a piece). But in M2TW a lot more of those are unique - MTW typically had one or two unique units per faction.

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It almost seems like there are only 3 factions (in terms of units). European, Muslim, and Byzantine. They all seem to have essentially the same units.

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That's exactly what I thought of MTW. Compare the English and French line ups (or any two Catholic countries) in the two games, there is far more difference in M2TW than MTW.

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(I want my Swabian swordsmen!!!)

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You have Zweihanders and Forlorn Hope - two 2-handed swords in M2TW compared to one in MTW (dismounted Gothics were not recruitable in the SP campaign). Plus don't forget Swabians only came in the VI expansion - M2TW hasn't had its expansion yet.

I just don't get this "more unit variety" complaint in a thread about what you miss in MTW. M2TW is head and shoulders above MTW in unit variety.

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Originally Posted by econ21

Weird. I am pretty sure the number of units each faction has in M2TW is about the same as in MTW (I totalled them up for England it was about 30 a piece). But in M2TW a lot more of those are unique - MTW typically had one or two unique units per faction.

That's exactly what I thought of MTW. Compare the English and French line ups (or any two Catholic countries) in the two games, there is far more difference in M2TW than MTW.

You have Zweihanders and Forlorn Hope - two 2-handed swords in M2TW compared to one in MTW (dismounted Gothics were not recruitable in the SP campaign). Plus don't forget Swabians only came in the VI expansion - M2TW hasn't had its expansion yet.

I just don't get this "more unit variety" complaint in a thread about what you miss in MTW. M2TW is head and shoulders above MTW in unit variety.

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Actually, I should've compared MTW2 with ALL pre-MTW2 games... You're right, MTW did have alot of identical units, esp Catholic factions. It wasn't until VI that there was alot of good variety and cool, unique and exotic units. (loved those Bonnachts, Gallowglasses, Huscarles, and Pict Crossbowmen). Then, RTW upped it several notches and really brought in some cool exotic units (Spartans, Berserkers, Gladiators, War Elephants, Companions, Bull Warriors, Pharoahs Guard, Head Hurlers, Woad Warriors, Screeching Women, etc). Then OMG, BI increased it even more (well, sortof).

I don't see MTW2 coming close to that, not yet. I hope it does. I'd like to see numerous unique units per faction, as well as at least one regional unit per faction. Maybe that's not realisitic or practical, but it's what I'd like to have!

I tried MTW, but at the end of the day I found it utterly dull in comparison to MTW2. The game is still there for people to live in the dark ages if they want, but I wish people would stop saying how inferior MTW2 is to MTW. Because for one, it really, really isn't.

MTW was a really fun game, and it could certainly be argued that the AI was better in the original, but overall, I still prefer 2. There is great unit variety and plenty of strategy, not to mention the graphics. Oh, how I love the graphics. :beam:

I'm a bit puzzled when everyone says that the unit movement was more realistic in 1. Setting aside the ship teleporting, it took multiple years to travel from Scotland to southern England in that version as well. In addition, there were several spots where, because of the way the province borders were drawn, you would have to travel through an extra province even though the distance from point A to point B was negligible.

Having said that, I miss the ship system from the first (though it could have used some adjustments) and the game-board feel of the map. Also, not loving the merchants at all.

I think what is missing, when you are counting up the number of units for factions in MTW, is the regional units. They weren't on any list for a nation, but most had an impact on the kind of army a nation could produce.

Honestly, the old approach wasn't bad. A guy trained to us a spear and shield in France is going to be like a guy trained to use the same in Russia for the most part. There is variation in some units where there really doesn't have to be. Cosmetics are about as far as some differences should go when troop types would have had essentially the same equipment and training even half a world apart. Also, it was psychological but the large scale similarity of units made the faction specific unit's abilities more profound.

But really, as for game balance, I think moving production of the more specialized and unique units to particular provinces could be a huge advantage. Unlike MTW, there is enough production room available to make even a unit only available in one province have enough out there to change your tactics. Without the production bottlenecks of MTW the regional unit system could really shine.

I'd like to see it where most nations have roughly similar lineups up to the late period. Perhaps different cosmetics, but for the most part largely the same basic units. But in the late period with development, nations could have a handful of specific units to them. The rest could be regionally specific units. Iberian factions would still have Jinettes, but only from certain Iberian regions. Anyone who took one of those regions could then learn from the locals and make Jinettes too. Longbowmen could only be producible on the British Isles. Boyars, only up in Russia. This would be decently historical as well, in that many such specialized units were the result of specific local terrain and cultural peculiarities. And conquerers in many cases should be able to take over using those units.

As for the coding, there already is a regional unit out there: Conquistadores.

Swiss pikes. The ultimate assault and defense infantry of the game. I also miss cheap but powerful units like the original highlanders and viking units. And fast cheap steppe cavalry for chasing down pesky archers.

Being able to crusade on orthodox factions.

Easy bribing.

Being able to hurl assassins and inquisitors at the pope.

Being able to put my leader on trial for heresy.

Easy availability of generals.

Almohad urban militia. In fact in MTW the Muslim factions were more well-balanced than in M2TW as they had some good units. Now they get trounced badly early in the game.

Civil wars that occur in your favour.

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Swiss pikes. The ultimate assault and defense infantry of the game. I also miss cheap but powerful units like the original highlanders and viking units. And fast cheap steppe cavalry for chasing down pesky archers.

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try Swiss Guard from the papal States, they perform much like Pikes and are EXTREMLY powerful melee troops. Probably the best single unit in the game in fact in that respect.

the things i miss the most are the units...dismounted hospittalers(spelling), and swiss armourd pikemen:shame:

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Originally Posted by Kobal2fr

I also miss catapult bounce. Silly, but sooo funny when one boulder bounced precisely smack in the middle of 3 or 4 different units in a row :laugh4:

Malta :shame:

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Yes, I agree.

Mostly, I miss the CIVIL WAR feature.

CA, give me back my Civil War, please.

well, I dont need more units, there are enuff differences... What I really miss in the game is the title system from MTW1! And why I cant determine the heir of the faction?

I'm surprised no one mentioned yet historic events like: "reading of Aristotle is on the rise now, religious fanaticism -5 in all provinces"

That was really awesome! I can't believe they did away with that in M2TW, because those small historical touches really help! And since you are building an update of a game on a better engine, just take the old events and put them in, don't need to recreate the wheel from scratch or anything. It's just a strange choice not to put in the little touches that already existed for the previous game.

I never played MTW as much as I did STW, RTW and M2TW, but it did have alot of GREAT ideas that for some reason failed to make it into subsequent games. The main thing I miss is the titles. I really dont get the same satisfaction from role-playing my family members as Dukes, Counts, etc. when they arent really tied to a province in any way, and it also added greatly to the sense of a feudal system. I also really miss the civil wars. I mean come on, what type of war is cooler than a civil war? I didnt like how the side you didnt pick became rebels, but other than that, it was a really good idea. The lack of population made things alot simpler and better I think. I really miss not having to choose between city and castle, it makes things too logistically complicated having the options. The ability to kill anyone with assassins was also really cool. I also miss the satisfaction of setting up a ginormous trade network with a huge amount of ships. I didnt really like how you could use those same ships to move an army from Denmark to Egypt in one move though. Regional Units made alot of sense, I have to admit, although I never really liked or disliked them. I dont miss the battles much, as the graphics were lacking (maybe not for the time), and I wasnt particularly good at them anyway (but I have gotten better).

Ahhhhh! Nostalgic feelings! Must go play MTW...

I miss civil wars and re-emergences to a point. I wish they had a much less potent faction re-emergence event though. A fully assembled army(which is HUGE) is kind of hard to conceal:oops:

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Originally Posted by Zghuk

well, I dont need more units, there are enuff differences... What I really miss in the game is the title system from MTW1! And why I cant determine the heir of the faction?

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Probably has something to do with the fact that faction heirs were chosen by closest blood-ties...generally speaking.

Thing is... you don't have to miss any of this.
You can still play the game, the only person stopping you is you. Just play whichever you prefer, don't get sentimental about "I miss this, I miss that", I guess you actually prefer M2TW or else you'd still be playing MTW and then you wouldnt be missing these things.
:dizzy2: Time for bed I think :dizzy2:

I miss the Glorious Achievements. Being able to win in a semi-peaceful kind of way was nice, even though some conquering was always necessary, both for homelands and crusade points, as well as for factions like the Sicilians and all the others who didn't have any GA in the late or even high game, who couldn't depend on GA points later on.

Things I miss:

Region specific Units & Valour Bonuses.
Civil Wars
Faction Emergence/Re Emergence
Bribing - Actually keeping the whole army you bribed!! Remember bribing those longbows or varangians and treating them like gold because there werent retrainable!!
Exploding bombards
Boiling Oil
Dismounting for sieges
Better mercenaries

i also miss the historical campaigns, william wallace hist. battles

How about the simple, clear graphics, the ability to have an effect on the other side of Europe through fleets without having to have the fleets carry them around for something like 8 years, sending your princesses/agents to whichever port was available... Or having true central regions that couldn't be left behind after invading Constantinople or something, because all of your precious teching up would've been for nothing... Or the ability to revise your moves before hitting "end turn"...

It was also a lot of fun to have your chrusade waltz through a re-emergent French territory and see how their hopes and dreams were turned from regaining their former lands. Also, I'd hardly ever handle my MTWVI armies like McDonald's hamburgers, as I'd rather see the men make camp alive than dead, these days you can get reinforcements quickly and easily. And Grand Inquisitors were a lot of fun after a long and bloody war against the Spanish - no matter how many times they'd re-emerge, the line would still be hunted to extinction again.

Teching up has never since given so much pleasure either.

And I will never forget fighting Kataphraktoi - somehow the Byzantines could be the most fun to fight against.

But Medieval 2 is a great game and a different game, so it's a great thing I don't have to give up either one.

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Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt

Thing is... you don't have to miss any of this.
You can still play the game, the only person stopping you is you. Just play whichever you prefer, don't get sentimental about "I miss this, I miss that", I guess you actually prefer M2TW or else you'd still be playing MTW and then you wouldnt be missing these things.
:dizzy2: Time for bed I think :dizzy2:

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I totally agree! The unfortunate thing with MTW VI was the problems trying to keep it running on newer drivers. The aa fix I found was nice but the last update of my driver made it impossible to keep both games on the same CPU.
There both great games and the ability to use mods is what makes them both interesting. The people making mods have done a great job on both games.

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Thing is... you don't have to miss any of this.
You can still play the game, the only person stopping you is you. Just play whichever you prefer, don't get sentimental about "I miss this, I miss that", I guess you actually prefer M2TW or else you'd still be playing MTW and then you wouldnt be missing these things.
Time for bed I think

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What you're saying it's perfectly absurd. I'm playing 2(or played, gave up after 5 vh/vh campaings finished in under 1 month and banging into this absolutely worthless ai till I decided I had enough - and yes, after I've patched and installed fixing mods ad nauseum), not because I'm thinking it's better then 1(actually I think it's much worse - bought 2 copies of that game only to show my support, while I have no intention whatsoever to buy even 1 copy of mtw2 considering what junk they want to sell me), but simply because the graphics of 1 are OUTDATED.

It's like saying I should use my dad's car simply because it was a super car at it's time and my current one isn't(ok, I use cabs and don't have a driver licence, but that's beside the point)... The graphics are outdated; that's that... I can't play spectrum64 or x86 games that I very much enjoyed at their time either, simply because, well, years passed and things advanced and obviously 640x480/256 colours wouldn't appeal anyone atm. That doesn't make them less of a good game, thing at which mtw2 sorely fails.

Well you go a little overboard Snowly. Cars? In all honesty, there are old cars out there that have torque unmatched in current performance cars. Or how about all those masses of "outdated" M14's the US military is dusting off lately... not because they are short on M16/M4 series weapons but because the M14 simply does things the newer rifles can't. Newer doesn't always mean superior in every way.

Arguing everything based on graphics is about the same... it's all surface but not a judgment of depth or playability. I still play the original X-Com once in a while, in spite of it's "dated" graphics, simply because nothing newer compares to its balance of strategy and suspense.

But the argument of just play the old one doesn't touch what most people are missing. Most players are talking about features they wish were NOT abandoned. Things that, when they purchased the new game, they were expecting to find in it. There were some nice features in earlier TW games that are sadly absent.

err, as I said, I'm rather clueless regarding cars; if they carry me from a to b it's great;) Maybe it wasn't the best argument, but that was what sprung into my mind...

And was reffering to graphics because that's probably the thing that prevents most of us to "get back to mtw" as the poster suggested. At least, that's what drove me back, because the game mechanics itself are still pleasing me. And obviously the fact that you can't play with the same "fury" a game that you already finished x times and know in/out.

Otherwise, I regard this thread as you do: suggestions/wishlist/whatever you wanna call it about what should've been there and it isn't.

What I miss fom MTW.

1. Regions, that allow the owner to build a certian unit.

2. Regions, that allow certian unit bonus.....eg: longbow.....most famous from Kent Sussex and Surrey.

3. Miss the Historical immerison of MTW. As opposed to the politically correct, "region" names.

4. I miss the effects of a leader upon the realm.

5. I miss choosing my own heir, and keeping it in the family.

6. I really miss titles, and having the effects build up on your generals.
I was hoping for something like a father passing on to son.

7. Glorious acheivements. taking the map is easy, give us a challange.

8. Game play!!!!! MTW even now, ok it's stickier, it is a bit clunky, but overall game feels better.

There are lots of good things about MTW over M2tw, but this topic depresses me.
so in short...

M2TW major plus is Diplomacy, and graphics. Some factions, like the French and Turks and HRE, have had a lot of time spent doing their units, and all credit to CA.
But that becomes a moot point when most others are so lacking.
Espeically one of the most played and talked about.....The Roman Empire. This faction doesn't even have half the real units of Alexi, john and manul's army.
Some factions, don't even have pikeman, when in history they did.
Some only have Arquebruisers, and no muskets, when we know they did.
And some factions tech up stops at their historical point, with no thought of the player going longer than that time. And no thought has gone into their continued being.

It really is a pity, that the potential of this game, was so trashed for want of a better description.
I actually thought CA wanted our opinion on what we wanted, or at least, read what we wanted.
the major ones as i remember...

We all cried out in one voice for titles return...
We asked for more trade goods...
Glorious achievements...
more regions...
unit specific regions, and individual factions where possible...uniqeness.
we found we needed more factions east...georgia and or armenia, the persians...
Era beginnings...

and others...

and i guess we all thought......yippie mother maker.......CA is going to expand upon, and update their(our) most glorious game.... MTW.
Oh, how wrong where we......................... :shame:

Don't miss understand me tho, M2TW is a good game, but it is not, and has not, become the Great game built upon, and improved, MTW.


well i havent' played M2TW now for 4 weeks, but i have had two great games on MTW. Yes I still have it installed, it has it's own personal MTW drive all by itself, and i still mod it from time to time.

:smash:
fenir :whip: oh yeah i bin bad again...

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4. I miss the effects of a leader upon the realm.

5. I miss choosing my own heir, and keeping it in the family.

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Your leader has an effect on your realm in M2Tw, and you couldn't choose your heir in MTW. You were stuck with the oldest son as heir.

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Originally Posted by Lusted

You were stuck with the oldest son as heir.

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No you weren't. Why do several people seem to think this? What he meant was you could choose your heir. This was accomplished by removing the heirs you didn't want... pruning the old family tree. But we can't murder off our own faction members anymore, too bad. It was also good for dealing with disloyal generals.

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No you weren't. Why do several people seem to think this? What he meant was you could choose your heir. This was accomplished by removing the heirs you didn't want... pruning the old family tree. But we can't murder off our own faction members anymore, too bad. It was also good for dealing with disloyal generals.

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Yes there was the assassination route, but no choose heir button like in RTW. I never bothered with killing my own family members in MTW, i just used the heir and king i got.

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Originally Posted by castle

I hate the fancy map in mtw2 it takes too long to move anywhere. plus you have to wait an age while the animations nod at at each town. I find mtw2 tedious to play. They should have streamlined it as it is the only game I know that takes 11g of disk space and comes on 2 dvds.

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Go ahead and bite your tongue now or put your foot in your mouth. A multi Gig Hard drive now is very cheap and I can wait a few extra seconds between turns to move. The only thing I could give credit on is when they nod at your castle or city and NOTHING happens. No deplomacy or any other option opens up.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

The only thing I could give credit on is when they nod at your castle or city and NOTHING happens. No deplomacy or any other option opens up.

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That is a bribe attempt...