News on Patch 12/12

Wow, that's a lot more in that patch then I thought. Is there any official word though on whether I'll still be able to play a current campaign after patching though? I found out the hard way in RTW that one of the patches wouldn't let you load an old save, and I lost my nearly completed carthaginian campaign.

On another note, it never ceases to amaze me how little some people understand about software development. Gaming teams, I'm sure CA is no exception, work ludicrous hours, but there is still a finite amount they can do in any given interval in time. Yes, there were some bugs in the launch release. Does this mean CA was slacking? No. Would I rather have had them delay the game to fix them? Unequivocably, no. And the same goes for this patch release, I'd much rather have these fixes now than wait until February for another patch with more in it.

I'm not a coder but I do often wonder how many of these bugs are serial, rather than parallel problems.

I was pretty happy with the game just the way it was. I just hope this first patch doesn't change too much.

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

You seem to have a very strange understanding of the term 'game killing'.

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The ladder and tower problem is a game killing bug. It makes the game completely unplayable if it occurs in a siege. Had one that I would lose if I auto caculated, and it was an important city. It took nearly 5 1/2 hours for it to pace it's way through at 1 frame every 3-5 seconds. Thats with everything on low, with everything at my normal settings it was 1 frame every 10-12 seconds. 1 frame every 3 seconds means the game is unplayable and killed.

The 2 hd bug was simple and was neccesary in order to play with some faction specific units. The varangian guard get's its arse handed to it but militia cavalry. Heavy billmen, the bane of cavalry, is massacred by scouts:inquisitive: . Not game killing persay but a very bad problem. The only fix for it is to give them some ridiculous sword animation or to turn them into supermen with halberd and jannissary animations.

Havent complained on these forums, but this is a let down. I was of the understanding that the ladder, 2h and passive AI were the main reasons for a 0 day patch. The ladder problem was even mentioned in one of the earlier updates as being planned for a fix in the 0 day patch:shame: .

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Originally Posted by Lusted

I find it quite interesting that CA provide a list of fixes for the first patch, which is actually quite a hug list and fixes every one of the major bugs apart from the 2 handed bug and siege lag, and yet people still manage to complain.

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I'll complain. They didn't fix the lag problem on the battle map when fighting siege battles involving anything bigger than a wooden wall. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what else they fixed, because siege battles are still unplayable for some of us.

It's a weird problem, because it seems to be happening indiscriminately. Some people with mediocre systems (like mine) have it, but some people with high end systems also have it.

Anyway, I'm having another gig of RAM installed, so I'm hoping that will help. But I'm not holding my breath.

A bit disappointing. Although it fixes most of the big ones theres no mention of the dozens of minor problems that plague the game.

Ballista/cannon tower mixup
Certain buildings not giving experience upgrade
Missing and/or wrong ancillary triggers
Dogs of war diplomacy on VH
AI not using ships enough
etc etc etc

Or did they just add them as other fixes maybe?

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Originally Posted by BigTex

The ladder and tower problem is a game killing bug. It makes the game completely unplayable if it occurs in a siege.

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I'm inclined to agree with you, but the point that should be made that's quite often missed by folks is that it is your opinion. Opinions by definition cannot be wrong. You may also have found that others tend to be quick to hand out "whiner" labels as of late to folks who are otherwise trying to have an intelligent and logical discussion, at least that has somewhat been my impression.

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

You seem to have a very strange understanding of the term 'game killing'.

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On the contrary my friend, based on your statement I could say the same about you. "Game-killing" is a completely subjective statement, something that may be game-killing for me or Mr. Tex, others may not have even noticed or don't care about/pay attention to. Hence as above, it is a matter of opinion, and opinions by definition cannot be wrong.

Cheers:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Goofball

I'll complain. They didn't fix the lag problem on the battle map when fighting siege battles involving anything bigger than a wooden wall. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what else they fixed, because siege battles are still unplayable for some of us.

It's a weird problem, because it seems to be happening indiscriminately. Some people with mediocre systems (like mine) have it, but some people with high end systems also have it.

Anyway, I'm having another gig of RAM installed, so I'm hoping that will help. But I'm not holding my breath.

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Actually you may be surprised. Watching the system specs people post, it seems RAM is THE most important factor for this game.. People with ultra amazing processor and graphics card but only 1 gig or less of ram all seem to be complaining, whereas people like me with a relatively low end processor and card, but with 1.5 gigs of ram or more seem to be in the "It runs fine" camp, and people with 2 gigs or more seem to report brilliant performance.

For the record, my system is a Toshiba Tecra M4 laptop, with a 1.7ghz p4 mobile, a GeForce Go 6200 with only 64 megs of onboard VRAM, yet the game runs beautifully in 1400x1050 with most settings on high... Even the siege ladder bug barely slows my performance.

The only conclusion I can come to is that RAM is very important for this game.

I don't know why people making constructive criticisms should suddenly need to "eat their words..."

Does anyone know if you can continue a previous campaign after the game has been patched?

I think you could continue your previous game, yes, but I think it wouldn't have the patch fixes.

Please can we avoid bickering in this thread? Most people want to read this thread to get news on the patch. They don't want to read sniping at other members. It really is pointless to do and unpleasant to read. ~:grouphug:

While there is no specific mention of a fix for the sige lag I do believe that its been said that it is related to the passive AI bug. Perhaps a resolution rests there or the problem has somehow been reduced. We shall have to see I guess.

Also, there is no mention of the campaign map lag. It's a point that I'll keep pounding on until I get a good answer. Might as well take a hammer and pound my head in instead 'cause I don't think I'll ever get a good answer on this.

I'm not even going to hope it'll be fixed in the second patch. Yeah, you read that right. I'm not going to waste energy on hope, and belief or faith. The more I think about this game, the patch(es), and many things related, the more cynical I get about it (and mind you I'm usually cynical to begin with).

If I had to rate my faith in the future quality of this game, the patches, the makers, publishers, etc., on a scale from 1 to 10, I'd rate it a 4, possibly a 5.


Going back to topic, with such a big list of fixes (and a few half fixes), surely they've been busy. I wonder how much and exactly what is to be fixed in the patch next year. If the campaign lag and siege lag aren't fixed by then, my faith in them will be totally destroyed.

Having played Poland, Byzantium, Russia and Milan campaigns I have never ever seen any sort of campaign lag.

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Originally Posted by Burns

Having played Poland, Byzantium, Russia and Milan campaigns I have never ever seen any sort of campaign lag.

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Same here.

So it seems the 2 handed weapon issue is a little more complex than we thought.

That is a bit disappointing.

I'm getting back home next week and was looking forward to starting up my English campaign with my favourite Billman all ready to go!!

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Same here.

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But he's going to keep hammering this one so WATCH OUT FOLKS! :help:

Maybe he means the SIEGE LAG BUG... that one does suck!:furious3:

Half the problem is the game is riddles with bugs and balance issues..so many in fact that it makes RTW look amazingly good at ist release. It is a shame..

At the moment I am playing as HRE..and I am sure I will have to suffer more odd seiges....for a while yet...and not to metion one of the largest issues...utterly insane campaign AI....everyone attacks all the time..it gets a bit dull really...they have not won a battle yet..and lose lands..but still refuse to even think about a ceasfire...dumb

I can only hope the lots of new things next year patch puts some serious effort into this game..as it is very frustrating to play...

Is anyone able to confirm definitively whether the 2handed bug is fixed or not?

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Originally Posted by Barry Fitzgerald

At the moment I am playing as HRE..and I am sure I will have to suffer more odd seiges....for a while yet...and not to metion one of the largest issues...utterly insane campaign AI....everyone attacks all the time..it gets a bit dull really...they have not won a battle yet..and lose lands..but still refuse to even think about a ceasfire...dumb

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I beg to differ, I'm currently France turn 40 and assailed by Milan/HRE/England/Denmark/Portugal and Spain, but I've had to fight some very tight heroic battles (lost one or two) and strategically had to balance forces on multiple fronts, instead of the usual steamroller approach. Loosing a settlement usually then allows you settle with one or two ai's to allow breathing space.

But if you want to never loose a battle or settlement then prepared to be everyones whipping boy. Personally I like it.

The passive battle ai to be fixed on the upcoming patch is however eagerly awaited, that and the merchant reload/save bug.

Man thats a great list of fixes.... a fair few for things I hadnt experienced .. but its all good

IMO a better than expected patch, I was thinking theyd just fix the big issue (passive AI) and leave the rest for update 2.

speaking of wishes for update 2 ... Id say importing the logic applied to MTW to stop the general dying in the first 5 minutes of bombardment, and maybe adding a line for the general not to charge city walls until they are taken or down. IMO these would increase the AI generals longevity substantially

but definately not complaining but pleased with the looks of the patch so far

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Originally Posted by Varyar

Does anyone know if you can continue a previous campaign after the game has been patched?

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Based on my experience with playing modded games, I would say yes. You can change unit stats, diplomacy, assassination chances, buildings, vices and virtues midway through a campaign (like when you are tweaking a mod) and have them show up the next time you load the game.

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Originally Posted by Barry Fitzgerald

Half the problem is the game is riddles with bugs and balance issues..so many in fact that it makes RTW look amazingly good at ist release. It is a shame..

At the moment I am playing as HRE..and I am sure I will have to suffer more odd seiges....for a while yet...and not to metion one of the largest issues...utterly insane campaign AI....everyone attacks all the time..it gets a bit dull really...they have not won a battle yet..and lose lands..but still refuse to even think about a ceasfire...dumb

I can only hope the lots of new things next year patch puts some serious effort into this game..as it is very frustrating to play...

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What difficulty are to playing on Barry?

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

So it seems the 2 handed weapon issue is a little more complex than we thought.

That is a bit disappointing.

I'm getting back home next week and was looking forward to starting up my English campaign with my favourite Billman all ready to go!!

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2h bug is simply an animation problem. Every other animation works fine against cavalry. Problem lie's in it being to slow and ending up in a stun lock with cavalry. Having a faster chop or something only done to cavalry would have fixed it.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=74127&page=2 Is a good rundown on the problem and possible fixes.

Good that the passive AI is fixed though. Will make battles quite interesting.

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Anyway, I'm having another gig of RAM installed, so I'm hoping that will help. But I'm not holding my breath.

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Ram helps, but the ladder bug has little to do with that. I run 3 gig's of 1300 ram, a Raddeon x1900, and 2 Athlon 4800 processors, still had a framerate of .333 with everything on low.. Thats the worste I've had of it, but does happen in lesser amounts. The more men you have trying to get up the ladder the worse it gets. With it down to .333 there was over 1000 men trying to get up them.

Thanks for the details Big Tex.

Why do you think CA didn't fix it?

Difficulty M/M.....problem is it is just a slugfest...no tech developements...just multiple attacks from different factions at the same place...so funds go on training and new troops.

I like the strategy map more than other versions...more going on, but diplomacy seems a bit absent being honest

Strange I have a AMD 4400 dual core with 1.5 gig ram and geforce 7800Gt graphic card and it lags when the A.I only has 1 ladder but nothing on the scale that you describe Big Tex.

I can easily go through the battle, shoot them to snailsnots and sally or just put the speed slider to 3x and do something else for 20 minutes

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Originally Posted by Barry Fitzgerald

Difficulty M/M.....problem is it is just a slugfest...no tech developements...just multiple attacks from different factions at the same place...so funds go on training and new troops.

I like the strategy map more than other versions...more going on, but diplomacy seems a bit absent being honest

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Hi Barry,

On medium campaign difficulty there is more than enough evidence to suggest that if you spend time pursuing diplomacy that it will work.

Have you read much on the diplomacy threads here?

Have you read Beefeaters short stories? He more than proves that even on VH setting the AI will engage in Diplomacy.

I added a great nvidia card and upgraded to 3 gigs RAM. Seemed to fix many problems. Gonna wait till the patch is installed before I fix the two handed bug. Ladder problem seems hit or miss though. I have seen it only once. Many other seige battles ladders worked ok. Maybe ladders damaged on the way up to the walls? :inquisitive: