I am so with you. It's just a game for the elite. Marx said that religion is opium for the people, I say that multiculturalism is opium for the elite. One religion replaces the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
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I am so with you. It's just a game for the elite. Marx said that religion is opium for the people, I say that multiculturalism is opium for the elite. One religion replaces the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
I concur. There is such a thing as listening to the new without abandoning the old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Multicul = flauwekul ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
~;)
Well, like it or not, but multiculturalism is not "a religion", it is a fact which we are confronted with in our present Western societies :shrug:
I think multiculturalism is fine. Just like feminism is fine. Just like most ideas are fine, in theory.
Multiculturalism, at its core, simply says we'll have respect and tolerance for those who think and act differently than we do, so long as they're not hurting anybody. I don't see what the harm is here. And although I'm probably one of the biggest opponents of the Multicultural Mafia that want to ban Christmas and want to toss people in jail for saying 'Bless you' when somebody sneezes, the underlying premise is not the problem. It's the warped logic and lack of balance by those carrying it out. In this, I agree with most of its supporters. Where we disagree is just how badly out of kilter the MM can be sometimes.
Take this case, for example. If all the youths want is for people not to despise them and spit at them for being of Algerian/Moroccan descent, they have a very valid point, one I would be happy to make on their behalf. But molotov cocktails are not the answer, and for people who agree that the youths have a point to take up the defense not only of their cause, but their means of furthering it, that is where it all goes south. But neither is the declaration 'this is what happens whenever somebody talks about multiculturalism' particularly valid. Multiculturalism (small m) is not the problem, the lack of intelligence exhibited by those who should know better is.
And it must be dealt with by everyone. Pretty similar problem to Israel/Palestine. 70 years ago some a-hole decided to open the borders and let Israel wage war/ terrorism on local peoples, now local peoples have been driven totally insane and are giving it back with no real end in sight. They are both lunatic factions and are now killing unrelated innocents on both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Thank you liberal western elite for that one too.
That is why the concept is flawed, we already have a tolerant culture. Foreigners live here and can live the life they want, that is not multiculture it is western culture. We have the constitution, the tolerance it is bases upon, that is enough we don't need to sit on eachother lap to know someone is a human being but idealists tend to get lost in a pretty fine enviroment. It's like puberty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Keep a respectable distance, and don't try to convince people we are all the same because we simply are different and that is fine.
LOL, this thread has just turned into a Leftist bashing contest.
No offense guys, but y'all are acting out some obvious bigotry here.
Otherwise,
Now that I read your post, I begin to agree. He phrases it in an Islamist-terrorism context, and consequently loses a large part of the "novelty" with what I'd say a pretty generic rhetoric; but your clarification has a point. The new angle he brings up is that this pursuit of self-destruction can be done in an organizational level, and it could, if not altogether ought, to be considered as a social sub-group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
I cannot ignore the underlying generalization still: a group the size of the Taliban doesn't necessary carry all the traits of his "loser" concept -- but collectively they might, a sort of a multiplier, and it's a good point to ponder.
Also, a question, if I may: what were the connotations for the original word used in the German article for "loser?" I fear my understanding of the article is by a large part supported by the English connotations for this word -- which isn't exactly flattering to his point, in fact it made his viewpoint seem dearly simplistic at times...
The German is 'Verlierer' and it is defined as 'one who loses'. In modern german the word is completely neutral. It has no connotation of 'born loser' for instance, or 'lowlife', as the Americans say.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
I am sorry. The Riots are finished in France, end of the Intifada, streets are not burning, the oppressed ethnic minorities are not Jacques and the night of the 4th of August will have to wait.:laugh4:
Nice headlines for newspapers just vanished… It is not fair.:no:
“Actually France is simply playing with immigrants”: The people in the streets are not immigrants. They are French. If they are denied of this citizenship, we have to vote again because most of them are in the same situation than the French President, third generation…:beam:
Now, Sarkozy’s system is starting to crumble. He was the Minister of Interior during 5 years. During this period, he promised to restore security to the banlieues, to put an end to the no-go, free of laws zones etc.
He succeeded so well that it took just an accident to just start riots…
“I think this utopian single war would help everyone focus their anger and avoid localized war.” Read 1984: George Orwell, a lefty… You know, “Big Brother is watching you”.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
“All conservative people have a common enemy” You are definitively a conservative, and a Marxist one.
“We will all become one mishmash of people” We ARE mishmash of people… That won’t prevent wars or hate mind you… See chapter civil wars, France, Spain, and Former Yugoslavia recently…
“One religion replaces the other” Err, religions are opium of the People… We just add a new thing… Not multi-cultures but PC…
BUT, I remember when we thought that borders were not the future, when we thought men and women were equal, when we thought that access for all to water, food and shelters was more important than money, when we thought of a world of Dignity for each, when slavery wasn’t hind behind “cultural/ religious” differences, when the very symbols of oppression were not symbols of freedom…
“I don't get along with traitorous elitists.” Funny that… I am what you call a lefty. Coming from a family of soldiers, peasants and workers… Basically my family could be a soviet by itself. I don’t feel myself as elitist and for sure not as traitor. Thanks to History, my family lost members on quite all the battle fields where our nice conservative masters sent them for the glory of France and the good health of the stock-exchange…
If one day you speak with a real lefty, not the one in a boudoir or garden party, you will have a shock. You won’t find more disciplined fighter, more proud worker…
I don’t share all what they believed in, but there is one think I know: I am proud even of their mistakes, because they thought it was for the good of others… I don’t speak of their political masters, I speak of the ones who died for others’ freedom… The ones who were shot-up because they wanted more justice, or in fact, just to get enough money to feed their family, to sent their kids to school, and with a bit of luck and hard work to climb the social ladder…
They had a dream: Work will give better life, not shares, not stock options, not oppression…
I share with you one thing. Our enemies, my enemies are not the Poles, the Indians, the Pakistanis workers, but the people exploiting them, enchaining them in mediocrity and debts…
Need I say more, open borders means nationality's don't exist nothing more. Multiculturalism is a religion and out of all religions it's by far the most intolerant of other people who think otherwise. Open borders was welcome and bring your whole retared village because, ehm, why exactly? Absolute faith, that is why. Fast forward to the present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
“Multiculturalism is a religion and out of all religions it's by far the most intolerant of other people who think otherwise”. Can you provide your definition of a religion? If any belief is a religion, X-mass father is a religion, black cats and bad luck is a religion, all superstitions are religions, all political ideas and movements are religions…
I am still waiting for the Inquisitions and others fatwa from Multi-cultures. In fact I still wait for a Church, clergy and dogma, kind of “You Shall Married –or a Least Make Babies- with a Different Skin Colour than Yours Partner”.
“open borders means nationality's don't exist nothing more” Nationalities are quite new… It is a new concept, completely ignored until modern times… Before you were define by your Religion or to whom you belong (Kingdoms, Empires etc).
At the people level, you were defined by communities, villages, or sometime, trade…
Passports were invented by states in the 19th century. I give you that most of the population didn’t move too much before… Not totally true this, but mostly… Voltaire, Du Bellay, Leonardo da Vinci or others skilled or talented people were travelling within the known world without any administrative problems…
I am still waiting for the Inquisitions and others fatwa from Multi-cultures.
Oh? Look at the eighties, a period of absolute faith and stunning brutality. It is exactly that that brought us where are we are now, any critique on the clerchy was enough to get you excommunicated, bye career, a terrifying prospect indeed. Being flat-out agaiinst it made you a heretic, even worse. It has all aspects of an organised religion, with more religious fanatics in political positions then any other religion to date, and should be treated as such.
To me, that is my definition of multiculture: different cultures living alongside each other within one legal/nation-state framework, not necessarily below a supposed dominant culture. It's when that framework is undermined by particular cultures (or supposed representatives thereof) demanding seperate rights that things go wrong in my opinion, whether it comes from types like Wilders or Mohammed B.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Sounds like we agree then, still going to vote on him though, let them sweat a little.
That was impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Thank you. That explains much of his point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
You are correct in that the American connotation of "loser" rubs me the wrong way (blame it on Anglo-Saxon cultural traits in the English language). The German word produces a far more understandable meaning. At this point I'd say I agree with him pretty much.
Also, Fragony is on his trip again. :dizzy2:
If I am wrong then why am I right all the time, been predicting this as long as I have been here. And I will continue to be right just because I am.
Hum, how are they denied their citizenship ? They can vote, they can get a job. It's just that most of them simply don't want to. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Some of them studied hard, got a job or even created their own company. It is possible to get a decent life even when coming from one of those crappy suburban areas.
Thing is, most of them are stupid lazy asses, who somehow think that since they live in France, they deserve money and respect. They've been told "French are racist", so they don't even try. That's not how it work. You earn respect and money, and rioting is quite not the best way to do it.
I'm seriously tired by all the people who support this kind of idiots, for the sake of PC, human rights, multiculturalism or whatever. Don't you see the hypocrisy here ? They're pissing the hell out of their neighbours - whose life isn't that great either -, they're burning schools, libraries - the very things that could have helped them if only they decided to use their brain for once in their sad lives - and whatnot and you go "dude that's fine, their fight is righteous, they've been oppressed".
Hopefully, this time, they aren't getting a lot of sympathy, even from usually left-winged people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
That was a statement of irony, Brenus. The Irony is that our blood boils more quickly when discussing local matters than it does with those on the outside. Tell me, as a westerner, that you wouldnt fight me before you would fight a jihadist, simply because of our relatively incompatible beliefs (assuming that we have many)
The point is that I don't have as much of a problem with the Hispanic immigrants in my area as I do with my self-righteous neighbors who want to establish spanish as a national language.
I'm not advocating a theoretical marxist war.
“Hum, how are they denied their citizenship”: In making them immigrants, like outside of the French society. They are French. And stupid, lazy whatever you want. But to say it is an immigration problem is just a none sense.
I was just pointing out that Sarkozy is himself “from the immigration” and what a success…
“Don't you see the hypocrisy here ?” I do, I did it long time ago, in the 80, with the movement “Touche pas a mon pote” which started the idea of living side by side instead of together… I am a universalistic, not for every body in his ghetto… :wall:
“That was a statement of irony, Brenus. The Irony is that our blood boils more quickly when discussing local matters than it does with those on the outside. Tell me, as a westerner, that you wouldnt fight me before you would fight a jihadist, simply because of our relatively incompatible beliefs (assuming that we have many)” Oops, my mistake… :shame:
I would fight any fanatic, crusaders or jihadist because in both cases they will kill me (burn or beheaded…). I am a non-believer in a supreme nice loving entity…
Sounds like they are French to me. Like at the agricultural scheme for instance... looks like they have integrated very well indeed as they are modeling their behaviour off the French farmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil