Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
hmm.. Botroas are good, but i use them as strike force only if they have more than 2 bronze chevrons, they have very few armour (1), so if you have not a good general (id est command stars), they are easy to rout if used bad. But the northern variant, the Bataroas, they are just great, they have a good armour, and with a bit of experience, they are among the most reliable heavy infantry, i almost like them more than the Neitos...
One thing very nice about the Gauls, is that all the long-swordsman have a 0.225 letality, that make them some very good fighters. I love them.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horst Nordfink
I agree wholeheartedly. About as much use as tits on a kipper!
Tits on a kipper???!?!?!?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
ROFLCOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Underrated:
Scythian Axemen. Admitedly they get slaughtered whenever the enemy has HA´s, but then again that´s not what I use them for. Both in my KH and Sauromatae campaign they´ve been of great help against the Getai and especially Hayasdan. The Hai are throwing stack after stack at me of Caucasian Spearmen, Armenian Medium Infantry and Armenian Medium Cavalry, and the Scythians perform marvelously against these, as long as you flank them of course. Especially the Caucasians usually insta-rout once charged in the side or rear.
Oksywie Culture Swordsmen. Nice enough guys to have around, they´ll easily kill all their northern neighbours (see overrated) and perform quite good against their southern neighbours as flankers, especially considering their cheap prize.
Overrated: Or well, not really overrated, just incredibly useless and so easy to kill that fighting them just makes you fell invincible:
Slavic Light Spearmen. Both against Sauromatae HA´s and Getai and Sweboz infantry these are utterly useless, I slaughter them within seconds. They don´t even have time to rout as the lose something like 3 men per second.
All Baltic units. Basically same as the Slavic one, they just die so easily.
Bastarnae Shock Infantry. Only meet these guys twice, as rebels in my Sauromatae campaign and in my Getai campaign. My HA´s killed these guys incredibly fast, even the Slavic guys lasts longer, and as Getai I find my own shock infantry better and more easily accesible.
All Hillmen (Cappadocian, Anatolian, Hyrkanian) and other Axemen from the East. No armour against missiles or phalanxes, and their attack is so weak that even when flanking Pantodapoi they´ll most likely get killed, even if the Pantodapoi are engaged with a phalanx in the front.
Karian Warband. So weak armour that even a single unit of Akontistai can kill almost half of them in a few volleys. Their missile attack ain´t that special, and they´re to bad in melee to worth using as flankers. I´d rather just use some Peltastai or something.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelics
hmm.. Botroas are good, but i use them as strike force only if they have more than 2 bronze chevrons, they have very few armour (1), so if you have not a good general (id est command stars), they are easy to rout if used bad. But the northern variant, the Bataroas, they are just great, they have a good armour, and with a bit of experience, they are among the most reliable heavy infantry, i almost like them more than the Neitos...
One thing very nice about the Gauls, is that all the long-swordsman have a 0.225 letality, that make them some very good fighters. I love them.
Ah, yes, the bataroas. Superb fighters for their price. It's my personal opinion that Neitos needs some Bataroas to provide javelin support. They also have better stamina than Neitos, who tire out way too quickly. (Hey, NeoSpartan, here you have a reason to have fatigue on! :laugh4:)
Regarding botroas, you can get those chevrons from temples, and then it's just to rock on. As long as you don't let someone creep up on their backs...
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelics
hmm... underrated, id say Leuce Epos/Curepos, they are simply the best cost/relibility etc. cavalry unit for the west, at last in my experience. They dont die easy, and kill a lot, if they have some exp. they can kill easily some generals bodyguard cavalry, and stand for a lot of time in melee fight too.
overrated, i dont know, id say NakedFanatics Gaesataes, a lot of people think they are overpowered, and i think they are great if used by Human Player for flanking and attack from back the enemy troops. But, they are not that hard to kill or rout with good cavalry charges or missiles when you fight against them. Again if they are played by Human Player they are not that great on fighting on the walls, at last when you are attacking (not defending, in defending they are great). Best defending walls unit for my experience are the iberian cetrati bytheway (and all other "cheap" units that have the Armour Piercing ability).
any suggestions on a good light cavalry/"router killer" unit in the east? Leuce Epos are available in Galatia, should i use them over their eastern contemporaries? they DO look cool though
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurakshun
any suggestions on a good light cavalry/"router killer" unit in the east? Leuce Epos are available in Galatia, should i use them over their eastern contemporaries? they DO look cool though
Id suggest to rely on the mercenary equivalents, the Curepos, you can buy them in a wide range of provinces, from West to Anatolia, so you can almost always replenish them by merging with fresh units. In Anatolia i like to use better Leuce Epos/Curepos, more than mercenary greek hippeis, and asiatikoi hippokontistai. Leuce Epos/Curepos are stronger than Asiatikoi hippokontistai, and can kill some of the medium cavalrys like the Hippeis (leuce Epos are more a medium cavalry than light cavalry, and their lance has a letality of 0.33, that is why they kill so easily and can stand in melee for a long time). Far in the East there are the Dahae skirmish cavalry, that is great for killing routing enemies, and for the good amount of javelins (ammo in vanilla EB is 10 for Dahae skirmishers). Their axe has the Armour Piercing attribute too, that is nice, but they wear no armour, so they are to use with caution.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelics
Id suggest to rely on the mercenary equivalents, the Curepos, you can buy them in a wide range of provinces, from West to Anatolia, so you can almost always replenish them by merging with fresh units. In Anatolia i like to use better Leuce Epos/Curepos, more than mercenary greek hippeis, and asiatikoi hippokontistai. Leuce Epos/Curepos are stronger than Asiatikoi hippokontistai, and can kill some of the medium cavalrys like the Hippeis (leuce Epos are more a medium cavalry than light cavalry, and their lance has a letality of 0.33, that is why they kill so easily and can stand in melee for a long time). Far in the East there are the Dahae skirmish cavalry, that is great for killing routing enemies, and for the good amount of javelins (ammo in vanilla EB is 10 for Dahae skirmishers). Their axe has the Armour Piercing attribute too, that is nice, but they wear no armour, so they are to use with caution.
I couldnt find the card for curepos, but i did find leuce epos. are they the same? regardless, i'm speaking from a pontos perspective that can easily recruit the leuce epos from galatia.
I usually use the FMs and maybe an occasional unit of kinsmen heavy cav for the flanking/"sandwiching" charges, i was only planning to use the light cav to help piss off the enemy with the javelins, leading them into traps, and then when the javelins are finished, skulk about behind my lines until i need to hunt down routers or to charge (ONLY if there is serious trouble developing, i usually leave all the charging duties to my FMs and the optional 1 unit of kinsmen).
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurakshun
I couldnt find the card for curepos, but i did find leuce epos. are they the same? regardless, i'm speaking from a pontos perspective that can easily recruit the leuce epos from galatia.
I usually use the FMs and maybe an occasional unit of kinsmen heavy cav for the flanking/"sandwiching" charges, i was only planning to use the light cav to help piss off the enemy with the javelins, leading them into traps, and then when the javelins are finished, skulk about behind my lines until i need to hunt down routers or to charge (ONLY if there is serious trouble developing, i usually leave all the charging duties to my FMs and the optional 1 unit of kinsmen).
yes, they are the same, the Curepos are the mercenary equivalent of the LEpos, but i dont suggest to use Lepos/Curepos only for javelins, cause they have very low ammo, for javelin i suggest some eastern specialists, like asiatikoi hippakontistai, mada nizik asabare, etc, but they are very "weak" in melee fight, as every light cavalry. Instead in my experience with Aedui, Leuce Epos can easily do the role of medium cav/Light cav/ and some time and with a bit of Exp. even Heavy cavalry.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Appo
All Hillmen (Cappadocian, Anatolian, Hyrkanian) and other Axemen from the East. No armour against missiles or phalanxes, and their attack is so weak that even when flanking Pantodapoi they´ll most likely get killed, even if the Pantodapoi are engaged with a phalanx in the front.
Karian Warband. So weak armour that even a single unit of Akontistai can kill almost half of them in a few volleys. Their missile attack ain´t that special, and they´re to bad in melee to worth using as flankers. I´d rather just use some Peltastai or something.
I see you haven't made use of these guys yourself much? Otherwise, how on earth can you not know....?
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Ah, yes, the bataroas. Superb fighters for their price. It's my personal opinion that Neitos needs some Bataroas to provide javelin support. They also have better stamina than Neitos, who tire out way too quickly. (Hey, NeoSpartan, here you have a reason to have fatigue on! :laugh4:)
Regarding botroas, you can get those chevrons from temples, and then it's just to rock on. As long as you don't let someone creep up on their backs...
if only pontos could recruit the southern gallic swordsmen (botroas?).....i do not see why they would be able to recruit the gaeroas and the galatian wildmen and the galatian shortswordsmen but not the botroas. i would LOVE to have some units of botroas on the flanks, excellent stamina, javvys and a 0.225 longsword attack......imagine the possibilities,
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
In my current Carthage campaign I was quite suprised with how good Liby-Phonician Spearmen can deal with most enemy infantry. By enemy infantry I primarily mean Roman and Lusotanian one. They are able to put up quite a fight to Triarii and the havier Iberian units. I love those guys now. Same goes for Libyan Spearmen, although those are naturally a bit weaker.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurakshun
if only pontos could recruit the southern gallic swordsmen (botroas?).....i do not see why they would be able to recruit the gaeroas and the galatian wildmen and the galatian shortswordsmen but not the botroas. i would LOVE to have some units of botroas on the flanks, excellent stamina, javvys and a 0.225 longsword attack......imagine the possibilities,
i always thought the Galatian Klud. shortswordsmen, were a sort of galatian equivalent of the gaul botroas. Just wondering, why haven't the galatian a cheap longsword unit? Anyway the Galatian heavy spearmen, if they are like Solduros, they have long sword as secondary weapon, but im not sure, im just basing on the solduros.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
I see you haven't made use of these guys yourself much? Otherwise, how on earth can you not know....?
I'd not only second this, but I'd also vouch for that the Hyrcanian Hillmen are one of the most fierce if not the most fierce infantry force found in the East. They are like the Cappadocian and Iranian Axemen, except on crack. I made sure of it. Try a custom battle with them, and you will see why they gave the Persianate dynasties an instant head-ache once the Hyrcanians revolted.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelics
i always thought the Galatian Klud. shortswordsmen, were a sort of galatian equivalent of the gaul botroas. Just wondering, why haven't the galatian a cheap longsword unit?
Nah, the Kluddolon are kind of identical to the Bagaudas and Kluddobro of Aedui/Arverni and Casse. I'd think those are the Kluddolon's equivalents.
Dunno why there's no Galatian equivalent to botroas, though. (Which is what I translate "cheap longsword unit" as.) I have my guess, though.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
There is merc heavy infantry for hire in the region, though: Enoci Curoas.
Oh, and TPC is entirely right; forgot to mention the Hyrkanians among the hillmen... :oops:
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
n my current Carthage campaign I was quite suprised with how good Liby-Phonician Spearmen can deal with most enemy infantry. By enemy infantry I primarily mean Roman and Lusotanian one. They are able to put up quite a fight to Triarii and the havier Iberian units. I love those guys now. Same goes for Libyan Spearmen, although those are naturally a bit weaker.
The Liby-Phoenicians & Libyans have essentially same stats as Classic Hoplites & Thureophori respectively so yeah, they are pretty handy :)
Never heard anyone talk about these guys & have been most pleasantly surprised in my current Lusotannan campaign:
Callaecae Roscaithrera.
I bought a unit of these guys as mercenaries only because I was short of numbers & short of population.
To my surprise when put in to fight next to other Caetratae units, they performed much slaughter.
In the 2nd to last battle I had with them, 15 guys got 116 kills with 9 lost while full units fighting with them the whole battle got ~160.
The rest were wiped out with the bulk of my army in a disastrous battle for Arse :wall:
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Crazy bastards from arse chased me all the way to a river above oxtraca...where I proceeded to the my worse...
Im wondering everyone's views on the basque heavy infantry, they are apparently cataphracts on foot >.>
I tried them out one time I cheated...didnt really impress me...I got pwnt by an eleutheroi army..and I sent a whole stack of the lot against em...
Huge armor, cruddy morale apparently >.>
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
TA and TPC: I´m sorry if we have had different experiences with Hillmen, but for me they just aren´t worth it. Perhaps it´s just my tactics or something, but even when hitting Pantodapoi in the flank they don´t seem to do nearly enough damage to gain space within my armies. Of course most of the time I´ve been fighting against the Hillmen with HA´s, and against HA based armies they are quite useless, seeing as a single unit of Sarmatian HA´s can kill about half of them in a few volleys.
As for Karians, I´ve tried in custom battles and every time they actually get beaten by Peltastai. I even tried against Akontistai, the Karians lost more then half their men before routing the Akontistai, and seeing as you can get 2 or 3 Akontistai for 1 Karian I´d prefer the Akontistai.
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
What difficulty are you playin in general appo?
Re: Your most overrated/underrated unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Appo
TA and TPC: I´m sorry if we have had different experiences with Hillmen, but for me they just aren´t worth it. Perhaps it´s just my tactics or something, but even when hitting Pantodapoi in the flank they don´t seem to do nearly enough damage to gain space within my armies. Of course most of the time I´ve been fighting against the Hillmen with HA´s, and against HA based armies they are quite useless, seeing as a single unit of Sarmatian HA´s can kill about half of them in a few volleys.
Horse-archer armies are supposed to be efficient in decimating infantry; Light or shock infantry tend to rot against cavalry. However, the Hyrcanians in particular are supposed to be able to go toe-to-toe against Shipri Tukul, and Cardaces and still emerge victorious (Due to AP axe and missile advantage), and in ideal circumstances, such as ambushes or advantageous terrain make short work of the bulk of the mod's infantry units (Of course, saving for the best of the best). In 1.0, comparative to 0.8 where they were quite weak, they have been given higher attack (Higher lethality?), agility and higher mass, a significant boost in overall performance.
Horse-archers of course are absolutely godly, we already know of that :egypt:
