I'll sign it if you hang Luther :grin2:
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I'll sign it if you hang Luther :grin2:
Reading the Austrian House thread, it seems that it is gonna become Kaiser toilet paper...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
:laugh4:
Ah, an interesting Diet is ahead of us indeed... :2thumbsup:
The list of signatories includes "Duke Dieter Bresch." When did he become Duke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
Maybe it had to do with confusion over Peter being referred to as the "acting Kaiser".Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Or, Peter and/or Elberhard died but we just don't know it yet. ^_^
I know - it's weird. I installed the Ultimate AI mod a while back and although that mod has its own sub-directory and cfg file, it seems to have changed the flags on the vanilla campaign map.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
I have gotten that mod too to try it out (only the AI files, not all files, as I have my own mods running), but the AI doesn't really seem to be behaving any smarter except to keep their general out of combat for about 2 minutes (after line engagement) before he goes off on a rush again.
Stacks are larger, but characters still randomly leave them to wander about on their own.
Alliances last. And I mean forever. Its Medieval 2: Total Peace.
I modded that bit after getting annoyed with it to my own old modded copy and its a bit better. Still, with the force_invade off as per his mod, the AI is usually much too passive and refuses to fight me. It rather fights other AI factions.
Diplomacy is back to 1.0 levels. One rejection and the AI is no longer interested in anything. So that is quite contrary to the claim that the AI makes more counter-offers now.
All in all, I tried it for 2 long campaigns and then got rid of it, because the improvements were absolutely minimal and not worth the hassle.
[edit]
Oh, and there has hardly been any multi-stack battles either, even when I actively tried to get some. Mongols and Timurids also don't act any smarter and wander about rather aimlessly.
I wasn't sure if Peter being Prinz automatically elevated Dieter to Duke or not, so I erred on the side of flattery. Fritz knows Dieter is going to be Duke, but I could just as well put it as 'Duke elect' or some other hedge. The point is the heads of three of the four houses signed it. :2thumbsup:
As far as hanging Luther, I'd have to find him first, and then I have a feeling he'd talk Fritz into trying to hang Ruppel. :laugh4:
:egypt:
It's a relatively unique situation Ramses, but until Peter becomes Kaiser I think he can hold both position of Prinz and Duke.
Unless he specifically hands power over to Dieter at best he is the Steward of Franconia.
Wasn't Henry both Prince and Duke of Swabia?
The title of "acting Kaiser" really just means the Prince is fulfilling his deputy duties. Peter can be Prince and Duke unless he resigns as Duke or Elberhard dies.
And I can't remember if the situation changed, but isn't Fritz the Steward of Franconia? And Dieter is heir to the Ducal throne?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=316
So basically you have three ranking positions in Franconia that are supported by the rules,
Peter is a Duke that happens to also be Prince
Fritz is Steward and runs Franconia when Peter is away
Dieter is heir and will inherit the Duchy when Peter dies or becomes Kaiser
(this may have all changed since I'm not really keeping up with Franconian politics much these days.)
Why is it that Franconia always has the most confusing inner politics? :laugh4:
:oops: Sorry about the timer controversy guys. I had done a few test assaults with similiar forces, to see what the English would do with ballistas in their stack. Turns out, they futilely blast at the walls with them until their ammo runs out, causing no damage to the walls. Until then, they refuse to budge, even if I open some breaches for them. The ballistas take so long to run out of ammo that the English would effectively be out of the battle, joining it as the clock ran out. So I asked Tincow if I could turn it off for the battle, then apparently forgot to turn it back on.
:laugh4: The funny thing is that I always felt having the timer on (in general, not in KOTR) was gamey. Humans can much more easily stall and run out the clock to survive an impossible battle than can the AI, or whittle them down until their missile units run out of ammo, let time run out, then whittle them again.
In SP, I find attacking is harder with the timer on and defending is easier with the timer on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
If I leave the timer off while attacking, I will pretty much always win by just engaging in a long missile feud with the AI and will not attack until every arrow, shot, bolt, and shell is gone.
If I leave the timer off while defending, I lose because of the passive AI. While defending a bridge or city, sometimes the AI won't even attack me and I have to counter attack or "lose" the battle.
So, if I want a challenge, I leave the timer on while attacking and turn it off when defending.
Hrm, I think I'm going to leave it as it is. It's not completely accurate, but for the purposes of communicating with non-Germans it'll be clearer if there is one Prinz and one seperate Duke of Franconia.
Also Fritz is the Steward, but I don't expect Peter will be away any time soon.
edit: Of course if any of the real Dukes have a problem with it feel free to issue a protest over the matter. No insult is intended, just an in house political matter. ;)
:egypt:
Timer on is just for sanity as the AI tends to end up passive as PK noted or get stuck somewhere, and exiting the battle is not an option without you auto-losing it.
Econ was Price and Duke concurrently and this is possible.
TC: Could you please get back to me regarding the last few PMs? Thanks :yes:
Considering how long people have been playing KOTR, and how much effort has gone into making the game harder for the players, I assume any reasons to have the timer off have already been considered and discarded, especially when the AI gets passive or "stuck" due to pathfinding, as has been mentioned.
Also, with those Uberstacks around, whittling the enemy over a few battles isn't gamey, it's just good strategy. :clown:
Those gold stacks very much do prolong a battle. I think it took over an hour and a half of prolonged melee on that hill slope for them to start routing or become obliterated. That fight between the footknights and their few aventuriers and scotsguards in melee wasn't exactly short either.
I'm starting those two interesting battles and one note of consequence, Ruppel is 1 step from 'faltering courage' (Certainly undeserved) due to withdrawal, so FYI for anyone scouting the enemy don't save after scouting.
:egypt:
This isn't the first time this has been brought up. I wish people would stop saving after they "recon in force"... :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
That's because he doesn't have the Brave trait, so he can't lose it and gains Coward instead. I think he ought to have the Brave trait after the last battle, but chance was not kind :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
What PK said is true btw. That's what spies are for. Or captains.
"last few"? I see only one question in all three of them. The answer is no, you cannot use battle plunder before the end of your turn. The cataclysm is over, time to get used to the old system again.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
For the record, that was NOT me. I always left peoples avatars at least a tile away from the battle, unless a closer positioning was necessary to get reinforcements in. I was very careful about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Mini Econ's taking the save.
I have no idea who it is. Technically, it could be anyone who downloads the save and then uploads a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
I have no problem with people using my avatar as "recon". I just ask that they not save the game after they do so. I was annoyed to see Jan have "hesitant attacker" because it was given due to OOC reasons and is quite unlike the way I played him. Anytime I got a trait, good or bad, from something in the game, I tried to role-play it. But getting bad traits because of OOC reasons makes Kevin a sad panda... :shame:
Love him or hate him, Jan was not very "hesitant". And certainly not with regards to battles. :no:
Are people actually attacking enemy stacks and withdrawing to see what's in them? And then saving the game? :no:
Yes. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
And it could be anyone who downloads the save, and then uploads it. Which is basically everyone.
If it's not the chancellor/gm, then it could be someone who has a look around the map after they have fought their battle. And they get curious as to what is in certain stacks so they have our avatars attack.
But, if you save, the game records every withdrawal. Eventually you get negative traits because the withdrawals add up.
That's incredibly lame. :no:
On a more positive note, Mini econ's playing the final battle of the turn. That means tonight we may find out what AI turn battles are up, and pretty soon, we'll be on to the Diet! :2thumbsup:
I doubt they even realized the consequences of it. The trait doesn't pop up right away, so if you get it, it could be because of what someone or someones did months ago. (some of our avatars have been around awhile).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
I seriously doubt it was malicious but I would appreciate if people be aware of it.
*edit*
Obviously if the trait pops up, it is because of something that happened recently. But what I meant was the first "points" towards the trait could have been applied long ago. It's cumulative.
If someone does get a trait like that and it's obviouly not from the players actions, for example Ruppel, can we eliminate it via console?
I don't know if the console can remove it, but I just make an additional save to goof off with and only fight my battle on the 'real' save. I have random snatches of time throughout the day to mess around with, so I've scouted and fought a lot of the interesting battles since I joined. Elberhard's fight is a good one, by the way. I had a few more casualties than Econ in that one (Too aggressive with my cavalry! As usual. :laugh4: ), but the terrain made it much clearer why the AI's 3x gold units got themselves into such morale trouble.
I wouldn't have fought the one FH got into, but I'm going to give it a try later anyway. The first stack doesn't look too bad, but the second will murder me. Maybe I'll turn the timer back on and wait for the tie. :beam:
:egypt:
actually Dieter did specifically ask to be listed as Count Bresch but looks like fritz has ignored him...again :clown: . And all these battles lately are just making me realise what a bad general I am compared to you guys :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
same, same. and dieter ain't duke, that's péter.
Okay, changes will be up in a minute. ;)
I'll leave Peter as Prinz though, sounds more impressive. Dieter is Count of Madgeburg, correct? I'll include land titles in the listing where known.
:egypt:
Console could remove it, but since its an anti trait to other traits, each time you would normally get it to show up, it actually reduces its anti traits first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
I think this used to be a problem mainly before my chancellorship, where people still set-up the battles in the way of you loading up the save and being on the pre-battle screen. Now that we have players choose the angle of attack or whether to attack, this shouldn't be a problem anymore (and you can probably tell who did it because that stack's info will be highlighted and quite possibly your avatar standing next to it)
As for my battle, I was the attacker, so timer running out means you lose :tongue2:
yes Dieter is Count of Madgeburg, which is why he has been sitting in it the past 50 years. :clown:
Mini-Econ's fought his battle. It was brutal.
https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/...alermo0lh9.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1338-8.zip
I did it twice, I put the timer on but it wasn't even a factor. No missile units to exchange fire was a handicap. So I charged at them in both plays using two different strategies and was soundly routed without the enemy reinforcements being a factor. I didn't have the patience to wait and be fired upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
FH you truly have the mastery of the game in battle play and script.
I was able to 'trick' the first stack into engaging in a great big huddled mass after I swept their cannons, but I still lost almost half my men and Ruppel ate an arrow. I didn't go after the second stack without a general. Might try it again later, even if it's gamey. :laugh4:
Going to try out Palermo too. Should be interesting. :2thumbsup:
:egypt:
Is it just me or are people starting to bend the rules?
One question : If Tincow manages to recruit a general for me next turn, will I be able to take part in the Diet ? Or not ?
You will have a character in 1340. Even if you didn't, players without avatars can still participate in the Diet. They are "nameless Electors" and are able to propose and second legislation and vote. Granted they will have less influence than those who have avatars with titles, but you will be able to participate.
Thanks OK...
I'll eagerly wait for my avatar before making any statements in the Diet (would like to play him according his (surely few) traits
Well, the inappropriately using other's characters to "recon" enemy forces is something that could have been done a long time ago, months as pk (I think?) pointed out, and my turning the timer off was a pretty specific situation with permission from someone running the game, so I'd say "not neccessarily". :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
AG might have meant the fact that people are playing the save and reporting "spoilers". I think there was a "gentleman's agreement" that people would keep it quiet if they checked stuff out like that. Or at least put it in spoiler tags.
Of course AG could much better explain what rules he thought we were bending than I could. :clown:
Ah, I had thought his question had some relation to his earlier comment about playing without the timer on, and then all this stuff about people giving points towards hesitant attacker traits by "reconning" and saving the game.
My mistake. :sweatdrop:
Maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
Do not assume that I can somehow read AG's mind. I was just guessing. :laugh4:
Wait, you can't read minds? I thought everyone could. :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Sadly, no...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
~:mecry:
I've updated Elberhard's record of the history of the provinces during the cataclysm in the IMS:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...01&postcount=2
After my Ragusa/Zagreb gaff in the House of Austria, please can any corrections be out of character?
I am not very happy about the "secret" heirs to Austria and Bavaria. Unless the names of the heirs are deposited with a third party (not the heir) somewhere, it just amounts to leaving the succession open and could cause problems in future. I am thinking 1066 and all that, with both William and Harold thinking they were Edward's heir. Maybe TC and AG could PM me the names in spoiler tags and I won't read the spoiler until their avatars die?
Warluster: who is the heir to Swabia? BTW, I am taking Antwerp off the list of Swabia territories in the House of Swabia first post. It has not been allocated by the Kaiser yet and Ignoramus suggested the idea of making it Eue's dowry, which is a cool idea. (He's hoping she will marry Hapsburg, who historically received Antwerp as a dowry, but no promises.)
EDIT: I've also updated the Counts and provinces on the playlist.
Brutal IC pouncing on OOC mistakes seems like part of the game. We got a ton of millage off of Siegfried giving a Sicilian Sardinia to the Bavarians.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I've learned the hard way to spell and grammar check my IC posts before I put em up, for fear of getting IC eviscerated. The "preview post" function has saved me plenty of times and I highly recommend it's use.
I think AG did mean playing other people's battles, but I don't think it is an issue if the battle has already been fought and uploaded before it is attempted by others.
OK guy's sorry I wasn't more specific.
I am certainly not talking about Zim's authorised use of taking the timer off.
What I am absolutely unreasonable about is ANYONE using any character to recon a fight before it happens.
It's a gentlemen agreement but you fight these battles ONCE and you don't go scouting with any units before a battle by engaging said army with any unit. That in my view is total cheese!!
Using spy's and other characters to see the army composition is fine, but any use of the tactical battle map before the battle is total BS.
And I'm not apologising for this tone.
You gain situation awareness, lay of the land and a whole host of advantages by doing this and it's completely unnecessary. If you are that concern about one of these armies then don't fight it and that is how it should be.
This is not aimed at anyone but a general statement.
and yes...if you are going to play on with the save...which you really shouldn't do, then for godsake don't tell anyone.
Why anyone would want to spoil the game for themselves is beyond my understanding...
ahem. Ludwig will not be best pleased if Antwerp is made part of any dowry, unless he gets both it and Eue. Which of course he is open for. But I will add more IC
:inquisitive: Ludwig is Count of Bruges, not Antwerp, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by deguerra
Please keep the dowry idea OOC only. Eue's only 12, IIRC, so it's a way off and there has been no IC discussion of it.
If an Austrian noble(which Maximilian was going to be last time I heard) received a city so far from the House as part of a dowry, what would it's status be? An addition to the Austrian Duchy, Imperial Demesne run by Maximilian, some kind of odd quasi-independent city?
I'd be kind of interested to see how that would play out (although I think my character Jan might roll in his grave :laugh4: ).
I don't think we need to make this game that historical as to have Antwerp given to Austria. Just give something else on the eastern border.
Afterall we haven't been keeping to history otherwise either, and it would make the house lines quite odd to have an Autrian territory this far west and not connected to another Austrian region.
:laugh4: I kid only about the dowry, and yes Ludwig is Count only of Bruges, but considers Antwerp as of pivotal importance to Swabia, to Flanders and to his dead friend Jan.
If I went through with the plan - which I am not committed to - I was just thinking of making it Austrian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
I was originally keen on a strict North, East, South, West division of Houses. But now that they have such a strong identity, I am rather attracted to Cecil's idea of making the Reich more messy.
There is a practical issue of how Antwerp could be defended by Austria and of course the Swabian negative reaction but these are things that can be resolved in IC. Indeed, I suppose the attraction of making the Reich more messy is that it will raise more problems and issues IC, making the game more interesting.
while i still oppose this heavily IC, i agree fully OOC. In fact, I would still encourage more entities outside the main houses. but we shall have to see :D
Would also make life more difficult for the (partial) chancellor :tongue2:
That would be interesting, Econ :yes: , although as a Swabian and a citizen of the town saved from the vile French by Jan von der Pfalz, Andreas would probably be one of those people who would dislike the idea . Of course, he might be too busy just trying to survive in Outremer to care much. :clown:
I was rereading the last page or so and saw this post by OK. I'm curious about something. How does the influence system work for voting. For example, Andreas has 2 influence through stats (over 15 total, over 6 in one). Does this mean his vote is weighted double over someone with one influence? What would this mean for someone with 0 influence (like Jan would be if he hadn't been Count of Antwerp), or a "nameless elector" players?
Now that the Diet is coming up I'd like to figure these things out. :yes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverKnight
Everyone has 1 base vote (except for the emperor) that is not shown on the playtable.
The playtable (except for the emperor) shows only the numerical point bonus you get for casting your vote.
So say you vote for a certain piece of legislation and you got +2 from stats and +1 from being Count. That means +3 total. As you are also an elector, your vote counts as 4.
The emperor's influence equals his authority rating. Elberhard has 1. As emperor, he is no longer an elector, so gets no additional bonus. So his overall vote counts as 1.
making him effectively less influential than pretty much everyone? shouldn't there be some sort of emperor bonus?
:yes: Ok, that makes sense. I was wondering what the influence system meant for 0 influence people. I'm glad to see they still get a vote.
deguerra, I think it's set up to represent that many Emperors had relatively little power to push through their agenda, while others were very powerful. Since there's no cap on the Emperor's influence, he can have anywhere from 1-10. Elberhard just has the disadvantage of some influence reducing traits (including lewd, I believe).
Well, they do unless they are emperor.
If Elberhard gains another trait (or advances a current one) that reduces authority, he would effectively have no vote at the diet. Well, he could still vote, but it would be symbolic only and he would be laughed at.
Looking back at previous Kaisers, they usually benefit from the influence system. Heinrich maxed out at 5 authority, Henry at 10 (!), Jobst at 4 and Siegfried at 9. Elberhard is the only Kaiser who's influence has actually fallen over time.
I'd relate this to several factors:
- Initially I had been too lenient with giving authority and the chances were slightly lowered over time. It is still possible to get 10 within a reasonable amount of turns, but not as easy as before
- Elberhard has always struggled with Feck, which reduces authority by 3 and is an antitrait to some authority raising traits
- (biggest factor) There has been little diplomacy/assassination/spying during Elberhard's reign
He'll have one vote - his authority gives him bonus votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
:inquisitive: Do you mean you had been more lenient than the vanilla game but aren't now? Or do you mean you are tighter than the vanilla game? If the latter, how does kotorfix differ from the vanilla game in assigning authority?Quote:
Initially I had been too lenient with giving authority and the chances were slightly lowered over time. It is still possible to get 10 within a reasonable amount of turns, but not as easy as before
Assassination and spying seem odd things to give you authority. Both are supposed to be covert and so are not obvious ways of increasing your standing. And assassinations are something a chivalrous King would wish to engage in. (I know this a criticism of the base game rather than kotorfix changes.)Quote:
- (biggest factor) There has been little diplomacy/assassination/spying during Elberhard's reign
Elberhard's low authority is fine given the history of the cataclysm, but the more I learn of how authority is gained, the less I like it. It would seem better to tie it to losses or acquisitions of the Reich's provinces, plus some personal traits (either bad ones like feck or good ones from battles etc).
YIKES! I was just wondering why Warmaster Horus hadn't fought his battle yet and I realized that I completely left it out of the battle list. :oops:
Friedrich Karolinger (Warmaster Horus):
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
:jawdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Two armies AND a bridge?! Warmaster Horus: you may want to pass on that and wait for the start of normal play next turn.
I confess discretion rather than valour was one reason Elberhard rode to help Austria not Bavaria.
To be fair, he has a VERY powerful army and the Byzantine armies are not upgraded.
WH"Damn the torpedos, Full speed ahead!":whip:
My thoughts exactly. :laugh4:Quote:
"Damn the torpedos, Full speed ahead!"
Taking the save, and I'll tell you all about it later :smash:
Edit: Okay, logging off, and am fighting the battle.
Not quite. So far, the emperor's vote has always been equal to his authority without +1 I believe. We also clarified a few months back that the emperor is not an elector. As only electors receive +1 base, the emperor does not get this unless I missed something.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Both actually. It used to be more lenient than vanilla somewhere in the second or third version and now is about equal to it (maybe a tiny bit stricter). However, the traits that give/remove authority have been increased slightly on the other hand, so that balances out.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
See it this way: People might not know you are involved directly in spying/assassination, but someone is giving you that title "the Killer/the Watcher", right? So while you can hide clear facts that you were the conspirator, there are rumors and pointers that suggest they were ordered by you. So who would really dare oppose you openly if they know you make use of agents rather generously and accidents happen? :grin2:Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I would like that if it were possible. You cannot check for both factionleader and number of regions in the same trigger. Sounds silly, but its true. Of course you could work around this and give everyone the trait and then remove it off those who are not leader, but there's a lot of other problems with that (such as the problem with not being able to compare region count of a previous turn to this turn, so the system would break down after a while)Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
On a sidenote, the PoliticallyStrong/PoliticallyWeak and FactionKiller/FathersLegacy traits sadly don't work and cannot be fixed because a certain condition (LeaderDestroyedFaction and FactionDestroyed) don't work and are part of the hardcode. Those would add a lot of flair (the former for successful/failed diplomacy the latter for destroying factions and being the son of such a father)
You'll be happy to learn though that today I managed to fix up the AdoredByPope and PopesEnforcer traits without having to include the descr_missions file in the fix (although that would be useful for other reasons)
Indeed, I've found it odd that "Legendary Commander" gives no authority bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Since I'm the one who mentioned scouting and such, let me be clear that I'm not scouting my own battles (In fact if you look at the ones I've fought since I came in there are 2 sieges and a bridge battle where scouting would be pointless, and 2 field battles, one of which I fought from the bottom of a hill because I didn't know the terrain :laugh4: ). Not offended, not taking it as AG poking me specifically, or anything, just putting the information out there.
I read a lot about KotR before I started and followed the early years of the Cataclysm, so I had a decent idea how things worked before I jumped in, and even so I didn't expect to be a character of any importance or fighting battles every turn. There were plenty of things that took me by surprise still. I told FH this initially, and I'll tell everyone; don't be afraid to pm me advice or correct me if I'm screwing something up. I'm not the type to have ego tied up in this game so it's all entertainment.
:egypt:
Personal preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil XIX
Why should it give authority? You can be the greatest general and have no political influence whatsoever and can be stripped of command by the next higher noble.
I thik that a "Legendary Commander" would/should have some influance bonous, name recognition alone should garner some influance (Hannibal In Antiochius III's court) and knowing fullwell that fighting a man known as a Legendary Commander will probably end in defeat should add to his influance.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Thanks for the information Ramses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
Your approach to the game and what you have said is "spot on" and I'm glad you didn't take my strongish comment the wrong way.
Cheers
AG
so, are all the re-conqured settlements automatically back in thier original Dutchies?
Hi Stups,
We will have to work that all out IC in the Diet.
At the moment we have the legacy system which FH has mentioned. Once a province is conquered it must then be voted in using a 2/3 majority and then it's Imperial. Then it must be given to the various Houses by the Kaiser...which mind you is one of the MOST powerful relationship aspects of the game.
The Kaiser can "mess" things up by blurring the allocation lines this time around if he is so inclined.
For provinces already incorporated they automatically return to the house when captured by any HRE unit.
Which is why it gives another command star (and that gives influence bonus in the diet as per stat)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuperman
As for reducing enemy morale. I wish there was a way of doing this without requiring that general to pick up dread for it.