U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

So if I were to say to you that the property tax is unfair and only in place because liberals hate rich people and want them to pay more taxes on their mansions what would you say? Your argument defeats itself when you argue in favor of property tax.

The simple fact is that a rich businessman benefits more financially from infrastructure than a poor person does and so taxing them to a higher degree is not unfair.



I drive to work and make money at work, which I pay taxes on. The businessmen drives to work and tells 5,000 truckers where to deliver their goods that day all over the country, and pays higher taxes. Usage is clearly not the same :dizzy2:

If society became unstable my income would drop by thousands and the businessman's income would drop by millions.

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LOL...
I never got a job from a poor man. I'm amazed about the complete ignorance from the left. Yes, lets punish the successful, reward the lazy. Do you think a small business owner that EMPLOYS 5 people should be punished with higher taxes? Who do you think will suffer if a small business owner can no longer afford 5 employees? Duh...

Fairness? Again, how is it fair to punish those who work their ass off to get to where they are? Flat tax is true fairness but the left won't be able to control the lazy, ignorant masses at the voting booths with this.

Washington is on notice! McCain/Palin are coming to rock your boat and reform the crap out of you!

I had no idea Sasaki was such a commie. :tongue2:

Palin would be an interesting choice. She lacks experience, but she could grab votes from the rabid feminists pissed at Obama for not selecting Hil. She's conservative socially which would help with the GOP base, and she hunts and does the other cool Alaska outdoors stuff so she couldn't get labelled "weak". The whole ethics and whistleblowing episode look very nice to voters in today's political climate. Plus she's a hottie, that never hurts. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Fairness? Again, how is it fair to punish those who work their ass off to get to where they are? Flat tax is true fairness but the left won't be able to control the lazy, ignorant masses at the voting booths with this.

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What our friend seems not to grasp is that even under a constant tax bracket, a wealthier and more productive person already pays far more taxes without being taxed at a higher rate. These "need" arguments are pretty hilarious as well. A billionaire really only needs 100k(or less) to live on right? So let's take everything above that away from them. That'll really convince them to continue to work hard, earn more, and grow the economy. That smacks a bit too much of "to each according to his needs" for me. :dizzy2:


On the VP pick:
Palin seems ok based on a few minutes of reading. She definitely earns points for standing up to Don Young and Ted Stevens- those two are a blight on the party. Obviously, the McCain campaign thinks they can make a play for disenchanted Hillary supporters and I think he might be right. People seem to underestimate how fed up many rank and file Democrats are with her perceived- being able to vote for the first woman VP might give them all the excuse they need to vote McCain.

Palin is a bad choice , while there have been some rumours that she lacks experience and is actually female and as such not really credible in a white male dominated political world there are stronger rumours that she may have been and indeed still may be a Muslim . Given the intellectual abilities of your average voter I think the combination of those rumours should be enough to ensure that she remains unelectable .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Palin is a bad choice , while there have been some rumours that she lacks experience and is actually female and as such not really credible in a white male dominated political world there are stronger rumours that she may have been and indeed still may be a Muslim . Given the intellectual abilities of your average voter I think the combination of those rumours should be enough to ensure that she remains unelectable .

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I agree. She is clearly a lesbian terrorist who has killed more than her fair share of innocent people. Look at the facts: Sarah Palin will burn in hell for her treachery.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Palin is a bad choice , while there have been some rumours that she lacks experience and is actually female and as such not really credible in a white male dominated political world there are stronger rumours that she may have been and indeed still may be a Muslim . Given the intellectual abilities of your average voter I think the combination of those rumours should be enough to ensure that she remains unelectable .

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We'll see...

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

What our friend seems not to grasp is that even under a constant tax bracket, a wealthier and more productive person already pays far more taxes without being taxed at a higher rate. These "need" arguments are pretty hilarious as well. A billionaire really only needs 100k(or less) to live on right? So let's take everything above that away from them. That'll really convince them to continue to work hard, earn more, and grow the economy. That smacks a bit too much of "to each according to his needs" for me. :dizzy2:

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My feeling exactly. It is not a matter of taxing these people 30, 40, 50% or whatever as though they are going to passively sit there. If taxes are raised they'll... leave. And not purchase high value, high taxed goods, employ the services of many others as they'll be doing this elsewhere. The econmy will be a lot worse off without them, even if the theoretical taxes are greter. Look at the UK: 3 companies have left in a week.

I think that the rate of income tax should be fixed as a percentage of income, and then tax is increased on luxury goods.

~:smoking:

Anyone else think Palin looks a bit like Elaine from Seinfeld?

Seriously though, I think she's a good choice. She soothes the conservative beast, placates the fiscal wing of the party, and might even drag in a few Hillary supporters while she's at it. The only thing that is really missing is the fact that she's from a state that's already firmly in the McCain camp.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Anyone else think Palin looks a bit like Elaine from Seinfeld?

Seriously though, I think she's a good choice. She soothes the conservative beast, placates the fiscal wing of the party, and might even drag in a few Hillary supporters while she's at it. The only thing that is really missing is the fact that she's from a state that's already firmly in the McCain camp.

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I agree. She is an interesting and great pick. Her speech was great - I especially liked the ship-in-harbor analogy.

For the non-US membership:

Meet Miss Wasilla, 1984, aka: Sarah Palin, Gov. of Alaska, and now Repub VP nominee:

https://jimcee.homestead.com/Miss_Wasilla_1984.jpg

After reading her wikipedia article I agree that she was a good pick.

ugh. McCain is old, I know I shouldn't bring this up but he is. God forbid something happens to the man and then we have a former governor of Alaska as POTUS. I don't trust Alaska to run a 7-11 much less a country. He complains about Obama and exp. but this is a dumb choice

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

ugh. McCain is old, I know I shouldn't bring this up but he is. God forbid something happens to the man and then we have a former governor of Alaska as POTUS. I don't trust Alaska to run a 7-11 much less a country. He complains about Obama and exp. but this is a dumb choice

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Texas Sucks, thanks for George Bush, the best you guys could do!!!:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

My feeling exactly. It is not a matter of taxing these people 30, 40, 50% or whatever as though they are going to passively sit there. If taxes are raised they'll... leave. And not purchase high value, high taxed goods, employ the services of many others as they'll be doing this elsewhere. The econmy will be a lot worse off without them, even if the theoretical taxes are greter. Look at the UK: 3 companies have left in a week.

I think that the rate of income tax should be fixed as a percentage of income, and then tax is increased on luxury goods.

~:smoking:

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Rory, are you feeling ok?

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Originally Posted by drone

I had no idea Sasaki was such a commie. :tongue2:

Palin would be an interesting choice. She lacks experience, but she could grab votes from the rabid feminists pissed at Obama for not selecting Hil. She's conservative socially which would help with the GOP base, and she hunts and does the other cool Alaska outdoors stuff so she couldn't get labelled "weak". The whole ethics and whistleblowing episode look very nice to voters in today's political climate. Plus she's a hottie, that never hurts. :yes:

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Agreed minus the bolded the part. I believe she admitted to smoking marijuana when it was legal in Alaska. That doesn't seem too socially conservative to me. Not that it's a bad thing. I've wanted Palin from the getgo. I think she was a fantastic choice and I'm definitely voting for that ticket.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Rory, are you feeling ok?

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Rory is rather conservative from a British perspective. I'm not suprised at his opinion here.

I think the best part about this pick is that she's an accomplished woman. She's not like Hillary who basically got to where she was at by taking a protien injection from a sex addict, squeezing out a kid instead of implementing "choice" to trap said addict, and stuck around in a pretend marriage simply to get to where she could and couldn't even achieve what her goal originally was. I love hearing the main stream media right now harping that she "doesn't have enough experience". Damn, the dems want us to vote for a man that was a community organizer who hand out with domestic terrorists, mentored by radical leftists that want to "Change" the country to their political affiliation, stayed in a racist church for 20 years, and foreign political experience consists of yaking it up with a bunch of Germans that hung out after a rock concert. Sorry even as the opening act of a ticket, she's better than the demos main attraction!!!:laugh4:

Hmm. Palin seems like a good choice - definitely a more radical choice than Obama's VP.

I gotta laugh at the Obama campaign critique that "She's a former mayor of a 9000 person town" or whatever a "heartbeat away from the presidency". Um, she's governor of America's biggest state and is fighting the big oil companies up there. What, exactly, has Obama done? Oh yeah, he's given nice speeches. What foreign policy experience does he have?

Plus, she's got a reformer reputation.

This is a real good combination when you're a republican trying to get elected after two terms of George Dubya.

CR

Palin was an excellent choice, and the story has completely knocked the King's coronation out of the news cycle. A strong reformer who isn't afraid to tackle corruption in her own party.. who does that remind you of?

It says a lot that a one term Governor of Alaska has far more executive experience than the democratic ticket combined. Also, the Obama response questioning her experience was of the highest irony! :laugh4:

When her son ships off to Iraq shortly, both Republicans will have children serving in the conflict. It will be great to see Osama and that old plagiarist question their commitment to resolving the conflict as quickly as possible.

Oh and..

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Originally Posted by Leemster

Reality has a well-established liberal bias.

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Finally some self reflection. Acceptance is the first step...

Of the four, is she the only one with executive experience? :inquisitive: Mayor and governor. Not sure the other 3 have done anything apart from participating in the most prestigious debate society in the land.

Gah! Beaten by PanzerJaeger.

The picks of Obama and Palin have the effect of lowering the bar of what the 2 main parties will accept as "experienced" in a presidential contender.

The Clintons should hurry and get Chelsea elected Mayor to some small city now, so she'll be ready for the 2016 Palin v. Clinton contest.

Obama is putting weight on experience now that he sees an opening. That might be a shortsighted can to open. He has said that Palin doesn't have enough experience to be second on a ticket? He is first on his ticket and the case can be made that she has more experience than he does! What hubris. I look forward to that debate.

I think the top guy needs experience. The VP can be less experienced, but still needs to have an idea of what is going on in case of a crisis. Alaska is the perfect state to come from with executive experience because it borders Canada, is inextricably linked to Russia and is physically disconnected from the U.S., requiring some measure of independent operation. It is absolutely like its own small country. Put Palin in the second spot and you have an experienced, independent world leader in training. I believe that this is what the VP should be, not the President.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

The picks of Obama and Palin have the effect of lowering the bar of what the 2 main parties will accept as "experienced" in a presidential contender.

The Clintons should hurry and get Chelsea elected Mayor to some small city now, so she'll be ready for the 2016 Palin v. Clinton contest.

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Palin isn't running for president. Although, 4yrs of being vice president could make for some very good experience if Palin can maintain her squeaky-clean reformer image.

These comparisons between Palin's experience, (which isn't great but I would argue more salient than Obama's) who is the VP choice with Obama's experience, who is on at the top of the ticket, only serve to further highlight Obama's inexperience. I hope the Obama campaign continues this line of attack. :yes:

Palin has a couple years experience as Commander of the Alaska National Guard, as well as CinC of the Alaska State Defense Force, a cadre-staffed militia called to serve when the Nat'l Guard guys get deployed.

Xiahou, I take your point about Pres/VP; I'm simply pointing out the seeming acceptability of such 'inexperience' on a national executive ticket. The electorate (and the parties) don't seem to be batting an eye, whereas 20 years ago, I think they would have.

When I saw this, I had to come over to the Org to hear the howls. I know that the 08 US elections have their own thread, but some issues in the election deserve a side thread. It is a broad category, after all.

Sarah Palin? This is a frickin disaster. A 20 month governor with only experience as a mayor before that. Unbelieveable. This is Dan Quayle potatoe-retarded. McCain is older than the coffin he rises from in the evening, and he picks a 20 month governor? Gender means nothing to me. This person is a nobody who only has had to worry about sled dogs and snow for 20 months.

I was going to vote for McCain just to preserve the integrity of originalism in SCOTUS, but now... jeezus. This person actually puts us in danger.

McCain. You're retarded. I hate you.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Palin has a couple years experience as Commander of the Alaska National Guard, as well as CinC of the Alaska State Defense Force, a cadre-staffed militia called to serve when the Nat'l Guard guys get deployed.

Xiahou, I take your point about Pres/VP; I'm simply pointing out the seeming acceptability of such 'inexperience' on a national executive ticket. The electorate (and the parties) don't seem to be batting an eye, whereas 20 years ago, I think they would have.

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This is the new politic... American Idol. Unfortunately this is the best we can do, but we must all admit, conservative, liberal, moderate, we've been so dumbed down as a people, our leadership reflects it. But I do like the Republican ticket and expecially after this news.

Yes. Mac has seriously disappointed me. With people like Rudy or Romney readily available for a veep choice, he brings in some neocon :daisy: with ties to big oil. Mac deserves to lose now. All hail the Obamination. Gah.

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Originally Posted by DivA

I know that the 08 US elections have their own thread, but some issues in the election deserve a side thread.

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I disagree. We'll keep it to one thread until at least after the Repub convention.

But thanks for the thought. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

When I saw this, I had to come over to the Org to hear the howls. I know that the 08 US elections have their own thread, but some issues in the election deserve a side thread. It is a broad category, after all.

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I think she's a pretty smart choice, and I like her based on what I know of her.

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Sarah Palin? This is a frickin disaster. A 20 month governor with only experience as a mayor before that. Unbelieveable. This is Dan Quayle potatoe-retarded. McCain is older than the coffin he rises from in the evening, and he picks a 20 month governor? Gender means nothing to me. This person is a nobody who only has had to worry about sled dogs and snow for 20 months.

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She's wildly popular in Alaska with an 80% approval rating and has a track record of shining light on government corruption- including that in her own party.

Wikipedia would be a good place to start learning something about her. I'll have to hear more before I'm sold, but I like what I've seen so far. :yes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Wiki

Palin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council from 1992 to 1996. In 1996, she challenged and defeated the incumbent mayor, criticizing wasteful spending and high taxes.[3] The ex-mayor and sheriff tried to organize a recall campaign, but failed.[3] Palin kept her campaign promises by reducing her own salary, as well as reducing property taxes by 60%.[3] She ran for reelection against the former mayor in 1999, winning by an even larger margin.[3][7] Palin was also elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors.[8]

In 2002, Palin made an unsuccessful bid for Lieutenant Governor, coming in second to Loren Leman in a four-way race. After Frank Murkowski resigned from his long-held U.S. Senate seat in mid-term to become governor, Palin interviewed to be his possible successor. Instead, Murkowski appointed his daughter, then-Alaska State Representative Lisa Murkowski.[3]

Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,[9] where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.[10][3] After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.[11] Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.[3]

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