The German Government.
We hope that the Sejm do remember our past battles faught together.
Printable View
The German Government.
We hope that the Sejm do remember our past battles faught together.
You mean that they prevented Legio from writing the next chapter last weekend? If the tiny little counties of Brandenburg and Venice are not able to make their decisions in an apropriate time, there might be another one to do it for them!Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Poland, do you see the disadvantage of any form of democracy?
I have to admit, that it is rather annoying. But such is life in war torn Europe
Hmm. I am guessing the Doge's messengers are trapped in the Siege of Venice.
The Duke of Brandemburg is most likely so busy packing to flee Berlin that he forgot to send them....
And, of course the Sejm will remember Brandemburg's past rebelliousness and the several sedish wars, and the opportunity that is presented to them with the possibility of combining some of the finest german and spanish infantry in Europe with the finest polish cavalry to create a powerful force that will throw the Swedish garrison of Riga into the sea, and take back the ancient Polish lands around the Baltic.
The Sejm can also think that the True Religion will be better served, and the the salvation of their souls will be closer, and the the Pope will adhere to this struggle against the spread of heresy.
Besides, HMCIM wishes to mention the financial benefits in breaking the Danish-Swedish dominance of the Baltic searoutes both for the HRE and Poland. Polish grain could be sold anywhere in world if the greedy danish and swedish pirates didn't keep Poland and the HRE landlocked.
:france:
We understand the worries of our Spanish borther. We can put him to ease. French merchant ships are operating in the Baltic Sea and if our brother Phillipe wants them to transport grain to Spain or one of her colonies they will be glad to support him.
HMCIM thanks his brother Louis and might take him up on the offer at a later stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
Perhaps our German troops were to eagre to see if Venetians did wear perfume. Thus have captured tye messengers and are now using them as a point of amusemnt in the camp?
Of coarse we all know Venetians wear perfume, by god, we can smell them from Vienna sometimes!
Netherlands
We wonder was his Imperial majesty is thinking of his role as saviour of Catholism,when he has been slaughtering the North Italian Catholics mercilesly to fullfill his political ambitions. We would be intrested to hear Popes thoughts on that. Other countries should not be fooled by the Spanish schemes to make this war look like a war of religion. This war is about some of us trying to prevent Spanish plans on hegemony over Europe and making all the other countries their mere vassals. Let it there be no mistake.Spain will remain as the friend of the other Catholic countries only as long it suits the Spanish hegemonic plans.
Th Stadtholder perhaps forgets that Spain had not started this war. And that the religious allignments of the participants are "coincidentally" clearly defined and antagonistic. So who started a war of religion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
As of the spanish plans for expansion, again, the Stadtholder might want to explain himself and provide proof for his accusations. Spain has not expanded its european borders at all since 1609 merely exchanging the territories in the Netherlands for the ones in Italy, and the Netherlands are the nation that has benefitted from it most, since they have recovered the South peacefully.
So if anyone does not have a cassus belli on Spain is the Netherlands.
What Spanish hegemony are you talking about Stadtholder?
Netherlands
Ofcourse we can explain you what we base these things on.First.Spain invaded Genoa without declaring war and took it under its control. We think that this happened after 1609. How can you say that you havent conquered European lands when this shows that you infact have? To us this clearly shows that Spain is agressive and have ambitions to rule over other Catholics in Europe.
Second Spain conquered the Colony of Denmark without declaring war. This shows that Spain is agressive on its colonial policy and doesnt concern itself with rights of others. Can Spain deny either of these facts?
About the War. Spain went to war with Netherlands ally Venice. So we had complete casus belli. We are happy that England and Denmark joined this war and now we will see how it will turn out.
So please Spanish Emperor. Show us how this war is about religion,when its completely about creating a normal balance to Europe, by controlling the expansionism of Spain.
The Genoa conflict has dynastic roots. Therefore I assume it is only business of those, that are related to the Medici. I think that the Spanish monarch only failed in explaining that correctly.
If Genoa is the cause or pretences for the war of the netherlands and their allies, then I think I can invite him to have a conference with all Medici branches at Paris where we can settle this conflict.
Spain shifted its base of power from the North to the Mediterranean, where the Netherlands have no interests whatsoever. Spain gave up her Belgian posessions, and therefore the territory controlled in Europe has not increased even after the expansion in N. Italy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
The Danish colony was returned to Denmark and the issue was settled diplomatically.
Spain was attacked by Venice, without declaration of war, and the fact that the Netherlands support that kind of behaviour speaks for itself.
It is ironic how the Netherlands who have almost duplicated their territory at the expense of Spain and the HRE, now are trying to restrict someone else's expansionism. I wonder if your allies see the irony.
Netherlands
Shifted your power base to Mediterranian? And that makes it acceptable to conquer other Nations,like Genoa? About our lands.As we recall we payed you dearly with money and colonies to free our brothers from you. When it comes to the areas we conquered from Holy Roman Empire. We took it by force after the late Emperor declared us war,while we were trying to meditate the crisis back then.
So please tell us what is questionable in these methods?
I do not question the methods. I question the hypocrisy of the fact that you are accusing Spain of expansionism, while you have duplicated your territory in less than 10 years without intervention and any other nation pretending to stop your own expansionism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Genoa, is not a nation, but a territory belonging by right of inheritance to Marie of Medici who asked the Emperor to have her interests defended. What kind of man would deny her rights to a woman? Would the stadtholder?
Netherlands
As we are aware,Genoa is not an area its an independent city state,not ruled by Maria Medici.Atleast the Genoese didnt want so. Neither did the other Medicis that were supported by the Genoan Republic,who France is now protecting. After Spain decided to take over Genoa using Maria Medici as excuse.
The Dutch who have no involvement or interests in the area, are of course allowed to stick to their version, but reality, as always, is more complex. Yet since we are at war and all this talk seems like a Dutch attempt to bully Spain into something, HMCIM wishes to know what exactly does the Stadtholder want of Spain? To disband the spanish fleet? Give up the colonies? swear allegiance to the Stadtholder? What is it that the Stadtholder expects to gain? Or did he start the war without a purpose, just to see his and spanish men die?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
:france:
Lords, do you really think that it is appropriate to discuss the family affairs of the Medici - which is also the familiy of the French king - in public? I hope you don't!
To the stadtholder: Is your goal to stop the Spanish military presence at Genoa?
Netherlands
We apologise the King of France and leave the commenting Medici affairs be.As we stated earlier. That issue was one of the reasons we saw that this war was necessary. The goals of the war are within the coalition and we cant comment those at this point. What we can say is that what we sayed earlier. The goal is to seek stability between power of European countries,so the threat of Spanish hegemony will pass.Like Denmark and England have also stated.
But what are your conditions to make peace? If I were to negotiate peace, what conditions would you impose on Spain?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
If I were to surrender, what would your conditions be?
Netherlands
While we dont see Emperor of Spain surrendering this moment.We can come back to those terms after the season is over. As we wage war as coalition,Netherlands will not set individual terms of peace without consulting its allies.
:france:
I hear you! The stadtholder and his allies have a common enemy, but they do not have common reasons for this war.
The Kaiser.
You do know that this war will be the end of Brandenburg do you not? It shall be stripped of it's independance, perhaps it's title of Election. Of coarse a loyal Protestant shall be set up to rule.
We also make it clear that we shall conquer as much of the Netherlands as possible, we shall destroy you as a power in Europe.
Of caorse this can be avoided if you and you're allies return to Germany it's lost lands.
Netherlands
We will keep that in mind Kaiser.
So who hasnt still posted their decisions? We are four days now past the deadline.:smash:
I would like you to consult your allies then, Stadtholder. It would be a sad day for our soldiers if you were waging war without a reason or a casus belli, just because of your bloodthirsty nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
OOC: BTW, this admission of no objective for the war would normally generate quite a bit of unrest in one's army...
Netherlands
Spain.How many times we have to tell you our casus belli. We dont like to repeat ourselves constantly. Your last question was about the terms of peace and you take it as answer for casus belli.Please read our messages. Also to France,if we tell you that we will consult our allies on the peace terms,does that mean we have different casus belli then our allies? Did we have same peace terms with you on the last war with Germany? No and that doesnt have anything to do with the reasons for that war.
OOC: Swordsmaster,do you really think that the Dutch would be negative against war on Spain.After hundreds of years of tyranny and exploitation,im sure they would be happy to get their hands on the Spanish,who have caused so much grief to them in the past.
That is a different story! We were no allies, were we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
OOC: Franc, i dont understand that logig at all. Allies cant consult each other on peace terms? What do we know about the demands of lets say England or Denmark,without asking them? And what that does have to do with the casus belli?:dizzy2:
Wow, wow, kage, hold your horses. Hundreds of years? It has been one hundred years at most and not even that much since Charles V inherited them in 1516...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
IC: The Dutch have no cause for war on Spain whatsoever, since Spain have returned you the south. What other claims can you possibly lay on Spain?
England and Denmark can have their reasons, but what is your reason for war? Or is there none? Maybe you wish to sacrifice the lives of your men for no purpose at all? Will they follow you and risk the destruction of their homes for no reason?
Spain has not threatened the Netherlands in any way, so why would the Netherlands wish to threaten Spain?
OOC: Swordsmaster,this is getting rather boring. We can go to war against you perfectly legally anytime when you are at war against one of our allies. You can twist that as much as you like,but you cant get around that. The terms of peace and the reason for war are two completely different things as far as i know.