Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

nvmind, see my post above

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Killing the townies is a priority.

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All three of them? If you wish, but it may be your last action.

I agree with Andres, killing scottish and gibson is the only way you can be sure that the town can't win.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I agree with Andres, killing scottish and gibson is the only way you can be sure that the town can't win.

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:laugh4:

I wasn't talking about killing scottish and gibson, you evil lawyer, you.

Prole, Caius and shlin28 need to die. We'll see about scottish and gibson later.

But scottish and gibson are the wiseguys that allow the townies to kill! That's how they got rid of EF last night! If scottish and gibson are allowed to live, then the town can keep killing off the mafia!

It doesn't matter about scottish and gibson, or about Prole Caius and shlin28. You must have missed my last post, read it!

If you need more assurance of the power of the town, I can tell you Prole and Shlin's roles:

Prole is a detective - pretty useless now.
Shlin WAS a doctor, but since the kill on EF he has lost his doctor ability.

I really don't want to see Craterus win this... :inquisitive:

Why do the dead people keep trying to turn the game? Back and forth, back and forth...stop it your dead!

Anyway, Gibs and Scott are trusted members of the Cunnio. What would be the point of joining the town when you are inches away from the victory line??

Besides, if that was there plot, they had a better chance of betraying us when we were lynching Kage, but they chose not to. If they would have done it right then, then we wouldnt be in the position of power.


Last thing, you guys have to remember that the Cunnio are the peacful family! We already said "no killing townies", weve already offered the Barzini a chacne to live...why on Earth would you want to screw this up?

So dead folks, go back to the grave, for the sake of Fatlington :beam:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

But scottish and gibson are the wiseguys that allow the townies to kill! That's how they got rid of EF last night! If scottish and gibson are allowed to live, then the town can keep killing off the mafia!

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Lies!

a) scottish and gibson alone can only perform mafia sanctioned kills. They would need a third Wiseguy if they want to perform a pro-town hit.
b) They are Wiseguys and have the possibility to stick to their current family. shlin, Prole, TB and (possibly) Caius (assuming he is still a townie) don't have that option.

Anyway, it's too early for the mafia to start butchering each other. The threat of the town is still there.

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Last thing, you guys have to remember that the Cunnio are the peacful family! We already said "no killing townies", weve already offered the Barzini a chacne to live...why on Earth would you want to screw this up?

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If you needed proof that what I said is true, there it is. Now go back and read the my post on the last page, and consider your fate!

WE DID NOT KILL ELITE FERRET!!!!

Seriously stop accusing us! We did not kill EF!! We have myself, and Xehh II. Now we have the edition of Gibson and Scottish. So, this proves you are wrong and trying to trick them. think:


Kage wanted to win also. Who had 5 members last night?? Who killed Iron? They did. So what were the other two killers doing? A luca to protect...IT STILL LEAVES ! MAFIOSO!!. I honestly bet it was CA, since im pretty sure he is a made. Therefore, Caius told Kage about killing EF, and Kage sent in one of his Mafia to help. Therefore:
1.one of the townies either didnt show up, instead one of the intended killers attacked with a mafia.
2. Myrddraal is lying and trying to get Gibs and Scott to join the town, or trying to get us to kill gibs and Scott because he is working with another team (town/barzini), when in acutality Kage sent in the kill
3. EF was killed by his own family.


Now tell me which one sounds more reasonable...nice try Myddraal...

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Originally Posted by Andres

1 unknown factor (Prole), could be anything: doctor, Wiseguy, detective, surgeon, secret power role (perfectly possible, you know, remember how she was always protected when attacked?)...

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:laugh4:

Hilarious!

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Yes, it was the town who killed EF! I wrote the write up, it was intentionally vague about how many killers there were, implying two. However, it was not our intention to kill him!

We believed he had a Luca, we only had two alive townies online (one of them may have been a wise guy, Caius). The plan was to have a failed hit on EF. We intended it to look like a failed mafia hit, which failed because of a Luca protection.

Caius discussed all of this with Craterus, who promised he would not kill any townies if we vote Kage the next day.

But the hit succeeded! There weren't enough townies for the hit to succeed, but there was a town contribution. Craterus must have sent a wise guy to make our attack succeed.

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This has to be a lie. Kill orders must be like this: "Killing with X, Y and Z, target W", sent to Seamus by each participant.

If X and Y would send it like this:

"Killing with X and Y, target W"

And Z like this:

"Killing W tonight"

Then we would have two failed attempts on EF.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

So now you know the whole truth. Craterus has been manipulating you, and the town, since the truce was first announced. Let me tell you this, Craterus manipulated the town, and I'm not too happy about that, we fought hard even to the bitter end, hatching our plan to try to trigger a war between the two families, but Craterus used us for his own ends.

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You want Craterus dead, because she is the last remaining Don. You're hoping that the other families don't have enough Mades to elect a new Don, thus the dead of Craterus being = townie victory.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

You risk nothing from the town.

(...)

There are three townies left alive. It would take all but 2 mafiosos to die for the town to win. That's not going to happen.

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If gibs and Scottish backstab the Cunnio's, then the town have how many members? 5? Or, assuming TB is also town, 6? Wouldn't that make them the most powerful faction again?

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Prole is a detective - pretty useless now.

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Why would a mafioso believe you, Myrddraal?

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Shlin WAS a doctor, but since the kill on EF he has lost his doctor ability.

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That's nonsense.

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Originally Posted by True Praetorian

WE DID NOT KILL ELITE FERRET!!!!

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Indeed, you did not. scottish and gibson did it.

EDIT: Bah, this is too confusing and I'm dead anyway. I'll leave it at that. The living mafiosi did a far better job then me, so who am I to lecture them. Good luck guys. Just don't underestimate the townies.

You don't believe me? Here are the PMs:

EDITED OUT FOR NOW, just in case I'm breaking the rules


This message was copied to:

Caius, Husar, Ironside, Leet Eriksson, norwegian nerd, Proletariat, Seamus Fermanagh, shlin28, Twilightblade

Who I believed to be townies. However, I have since been informed that Leet Eriksson is a traitor, and is with Kage. He can confirm that these PMs were sent. It is the truth!


You've all been duped. Dance for the master of puppets!

Of course, I was unaware that we were being used. Crate did most of his influencing through Caius. Here's a PM, again, sent to all 'townies' including Leet:


EDITED out for now, just in case I'm breaking the rules. A living townie will re-post it shortly.

Why so quiet Andres? Have you been deafened by the ring of truth? Or perhaps Craterus has given your strings a tug. :smile:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Why so quiet Andres? Have you been deafened by the ring of truth? Or perhaps Craterus has given your strings a tug. :smile:

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You are dead, you can't quote pm's after dead.

Unless they are fabricated :shrug:

EDITED OUT QUOTE FROM SUPPOSED GENUINE PM'S POSTED BY MYRDDRAAL.

You expect me to believe Caius wrote that?

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Originally Posted by Andres

You are dead, you can't quote pm's after dead.

Unless they are fabricated :shrug:



You expect me to believe Caius wrote that?

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Unfortunately, those PMs are in my inbox like that. :shrug:

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You are dead, you can't quote pm's after dead.

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I thought that was only PMs Id recieved whilst alive? Edited out for now, just in case. I'll ask a townie to post them. They were sent to many people. Including the mafioso Leet Em, ask him, they are genuine

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Originally Posted by Husar

Unfortunately, those PMs are in my inbox like that. :shrug:

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You're dead as well :sweatdrop:

Too many townies on this graveyard. I demand special treatment! Move my coffin to the VIP section of the cemetery please! And I want bodyguards to protect me against haunting townie ghosts!

Lol, Andres, that sounds like you're admitting it..

btw, wasn't that rule like; you can't reveal PM's you got BEFORE you died?

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btw, wasn't that rule like; you can't reveal PM's you got BEFORE you died?

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That's what I thought. I've removed the quotes for now, but they'll be back. You can't suffocate the truth! :grin:

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Originally Posted by Drisos

btw, wasn't that rule like; you can't reveal PM's you got BEFORE you died?

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Nope, that was mentioned in a fabricated Seamus or Andres-pm posted by GH.

Are you people lame or what? scottishranger and Gibsons killed their Don. Nothing prohibits them from doing so and it would be a family hit. Really they are working for the town. Now they have infiltrated Cunnio. Now town is doing all they can in order to Cunnio and barzini attack each other. This would mean that after tonight, there would be 3 less mafia members, so the total mafia numbers would drop to 7, while actually gibsons and scottishranger are pro town. Because not any of the townies will be killed, there will be 4 townies alive. After that gibsons and scottishranger will turn their coats and town will have 6 votes against mafia 4, because Crate cant vote as director. This would mean the lynching of Craterus and a townie victory. Mafia can simply prevent this, if my guys will join the Cunnio and the game is over. I dont know why i should help you stupid Cunnio traitors,but my main goal is mafia victory, so i can bare to help you because of my own family members,to whom i wish victory and not a humiliating defeat in hands of the town.

-- the dead may not discuss their night actions. SF

I didn't expect that one to actually succeed, as even if we would've been 4 vigilantes, we would've fail on the luca, so we asked for it to be seen as a failed mafia hit. Can probably explain why Seamus messed up first.

Andres, here's two interesting notes:
a) Craterus' mafia jumped clearly on a Kagemusha bandwagon, ensuring elimination. The town votes weren't enough to lynch Kage.
b) Who wouldv'e known that EF was without a luca, if not mafia? Publically it was known that 3 lucas where dead at that time and TP mentions in his Select: Craterus vote that Craterus is unprotected.
c) TP tanking the town and ask for a truce that will make them win the game, just after the Cunnio made certain that kage was lynched.

I can only quote my gotten/sent post-mortem pm right?

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scottishranger and Gibsons killed their Don.

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This is false! You said yourself Kage, that the mafia cannot change their callsign. I didn't realise this, hence I used a different callsign in the kill write up. You will see when the PMs are reposted. You've been played Kage, Crate wasn't appointed by the town, he has crowned himself.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

This is false! You said yourself Kage, that the mafia cannot change their callsign. I didn't realise this, hence I used a different callsign in the kill write up. You will see when the PMs are reposted. You've been played Kage, Crate wasn't appointed by the town, he has crowned himself.

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Lol!The kill sign was there. Italian phrase. Ofcourse i would be just happy if the backstabbing traitor would win.But i doubt that.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Andres, here's two interesting notes:
a) Craterus' mafia jumped clearly on a Kagemusha bandwagon, ensuring elimination. The town votes weren't enough to lynch Kage.
b) Who wouldv'e known that EF was without a luca, if not mafia? Publically it was known that 3 lucas where dead at that time and TP mentions in his Select: Craterus vote that Craterus is unprotected.
c) TP tanking the town and ask for a truce that will make them win the game, just after the Cunnio made certain that kage was lynched.

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There are three kinds of people: those who know how to count and those who don't ~;p

a) Cunnio thought Kage broke the truce, hence they helped in getting him lynched. In fact, EF was not killed by Cunnio nor Barzini, but by his own family members, scottish and gibson. The callsign was the sign of EF's family.
b) EF's family would have known that EF is without a Luca. Now, maybe gibson and scottish were wiseguys who pretended to "join" EF and EF told them he was the last family member left. scottish and gibson saw that their "new family" was weak and backstabbed him, joining the town again.
c) Maybe he did that because he thought the Barzini's broke the truce and now he doesn't want to play with the Barzini's anymore. I think both the Cunnio's and the Barzini's have been fooled by the town in the previous night.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

I can only quote my gotten/sent post-mortem pm right?

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I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Are you people lame or what? scottishranger and Gibsons killed their Don. Nothing prohibits them from doing so and it would be a family hit. Really they are working for the town. Now they have infiltrated Cunnio. Now town is doing all they can in order to Cunnio and barzini attack each other. This would mean that after tonight, there would be 3 less mafia members, so the total mafia numbers would drop to 7, while actually gibsons and scottishranger are pro town. Because not any of the townies will be killed, there will be 4 townies alive. After that gibsons and scottishranger will turn their coats and town will have 6 votes against mafia 4, because Crate cant vote as director. This would mean the lynching of Craterus and a townie victory. Mafia can simply prevent this, if my guys will join the Cunnio and the game is over. I dont know why i should help you stupid Cunnio traitors,but my main goal is mafia victory, so i can bare to help you because of my own family members,to whom i wish victory and not a humiliating defeat in hands of the town.

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Notice that the Cunnio's has invited scottishranger and Gibsons into thier family, without hesitation.
Now why would they do that unless they know that they know that scottishranger and Gibsons aren't pro-town? And to to know that, they need to know were the hit came from.

The italian phrase was meant to be: "Dal Capo di Tutti Capi" This is nothing like the italian destiny callsign. It also was in an envelope, not on a scrap of parchment.

This was a play on the name of the game. The intended effect was that nobody would know who it had come from, but that person intended to become the Capo di Tutti Capi. I didn't realise the mafia couldn't change their callsign.

You will see when the PMs go back up, the PM I sent detailing the kill description. Ask your own mafioso Leet recieved all these PMs, he will confirm it is true

How could I possibly lie about PMs sent to so many people, including mafia traitors?

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a) Cunnio thought Kage broke the truce, hence they helped in getting him lynched.

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That's what you were meant to think. Again, just in case I haven't said it enough, Leet E recieved all these PMs. How stupid would I have to be to fabricate PMs and claim I'd sent them to a mafioso?!?!? :wall:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

That's what you were meant to think. Again, just in case I haven't said it enough, Leet E recieved all these PMs. How stupid would I have to be to fabricate PMs and claim I'd sent them to a mafioso?!?!? :wall:

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WIFOM.

Call me paranoid if you want, but if I would have been a bit more paranoid at the beginning of this game, my family would have survived for much longer :shrug:

Then ask him! If you don't believe me, confirmation is but a question away! :wall:

Cmon Andres, after your ghost has been rattling windowframes across the whole of Fatlington consistently through the game, I can't believe you're going to roll over and die now.

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Originally Posted by Andres

b) EF's family would have known that EF is without a Luca. Now, maybe gibson and scottish were wiseguys who pretended to "join" EF and EF told them he was the last family member left. scottish and gibson saw that their "new family" was weak and backstabbed him, joining the town again.

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I have no idea about scottish, but gibson is a Made and cannot join the town. He was a wiseguy with enough kills to advance to Made when he last killed for the Stracchi. You know this as well as I do. By the luck of the draw, Northnovas got the promotion instead of gibson. That left gibson just 1 kill away from Made status. gibson has already admitted to killing Myrddraal. Since Twilightblade was in on that hit (as shown in the write-up) and was a Made, then gibson would have been promoted. He cannot go back to the town side. If he did in fact kill EF, then he was working for the Cunnio, not the town.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Notice that the Cunnio's has invited scottishranger and Gibsons into thier family, without hesitation.
Now why would they do that unless they know that they know that scottishranger and Gibsons aren't pro-town? And to to know that, they need to know were the hit came from.

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Because the Cunnios are being played by the town. But by all means dont listen to me, while my suggestion wont hurt any of the mafia. Go and kill eachother and let the town win. It wont comfort me much then to say, i told you so.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

The italian phrase was meant to be: "Dal Capo di Tutti Capi" This is nothing like the italian destiny callsign. It also was in an envelope, not on a scrap of parchment.

This was a play on the name of the game. The intended effect was that nobody would know who it had come from, but that person intended to become the Capo di Tutti Capi. I didn't realise the mafia couldn't change their callsign.

You will see when the PMs go back up, the PM I sent detailing the kill description. Ask your own mafioso Leet recieved all these PMs, he will confirm it is true

How could I possibly lie about PMs sent to so many people, including mafia traitors?

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Do you take me as an idiot? After the consistent voting against town from Leet,you knew he was pro mafia. I give it to you that you had a nice little plan,but unfortunately it is revealed.

The town cannot win, it is impossible. For the town to win, they need to outnumber all mafioso. There are three townies alive...

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Do you take me as an idiot? After the consistent voting against town from Leet,you knew he was pro mafia.

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Perhaps it is me that is an idiot. I didn't look at the voting patterns. I looked at TrueP's post where he bolded all the mafia names, and sent my PM to all the players who's names weren't bolded.

You can look back through the thread to find it if you like.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

The town cannot win, it is impossible. For the town to win, they need to outnumber all mafioso. There are three townies alive...



Perhaps it is me that is an idiot. I didn't look at the voting patterns. I looked at TrueP's post where he bolded all the mafia names, and sent my PM to all the players who's names weren't bolded.

You can look back through the thread to find it if you like.

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blaa,blaaa,blaaaaa. Thats weak. Even only one of the two being traitor which i doubt,would be enough for the mafia to loose during next day. Do you really think people cant count at all? If you are so sure about the town loss, im sure you dont mind the mafia gathering all under Cunnio family?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

If you are so sure about the town loss, im sure you dont mind the mafia gathering all under Cunnio family?

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Of course not. The Cunnios have earned their victory with a superb strategy. As long as they are acknowledged as the single-family victors, then this game will have ended properly.

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Do you take me as an idiot? After the consistent voting against town from Leet,you knew he was pro mafia. I give it to you that you had a nice little plan,but unfortunately it is revealed.

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I've given this statment some thought. Even if I did know that he was mafia (which I honestly didn't) the fact still remains - I sent the PMs to lots of people, including him, offering two choices - protect Shlin, or Kill EF (as suggested by Caius). I suggested protecting Shlin. Caius replied to all these people, saying No! Kill EF, Craterus has agreed that we will all vote for Kage tomorrow and will not kill any townies. (I'm paraphrasing here, you'll soon see when Shlin posts the PMs (I've asked him to)).

EF got killed, after these PMs were sent, by a callsign I had PMd to everyone before he got killed.

These facts are verifiable. I was played, we all were, but I've seen my error. I am giving you the verifiable facts, so that you can see for yourselves. And yet you insist on going on blindly to your deaths :wall: Check the facts, they all add up.

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If you are so sure about the town loss, im sure you dont mind the mafia gathering all under Cunnio family?

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Yes I do mind, perhaps TinCow doesn't, but I do. Craterus took advantage of me and the surviving townies, and used us. I would rather see a combined family of all the surviving mafioso not aligned with Crate win, than see Crate win.

I love the mafia don't believing that we did kill EF thanks to Craterus manipulation.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Of course not. The Cunnios have earned their victory with a superb strategy. As long as they are acknowledged as the single-family victors, then this game will have ended properly.

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They havent earned crap by being played royally by the town, but mafia victory is the goal and no other family can win anymore earned or not. So for once we partially agree.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I've given this statment some thought. Even if I did know that he was mafia (which I honestly didn't) the fact still remains - I sent the PMs to lots of people, including him, offering two choices - protect Shlin, or Kill EF (as suggested by Caius). I suggested protecting Shlin. Caius replied to all these people, saying No! Kill EF, Craterus has agreed that we will all vote for Kage tomorrow and will not kill any townies. (I'm paraphrasing here, you'll soon see when Shlin posts the PMs (I've asked him to)).

EF got killed, after these PMs were sent, by a callsign I had PMd to everyone before he got killed.

These facts are verifiable. I was played, we all were, but I've seen my error. I am giving you the verifiable facts, so that you can see for yourselves. And yet you insist on going on blindly to your deaths :wall: Check the facts, they all add up.

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I dont believe you.You are smarter then that. But really this discussion is fruitless. Mafia victory is what counts and the mafia should take it. The only possibility for victorius family is the lowsy backstabbing Cunnios, but even that is better then loose to the town.

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I dont believe you.

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Ask Leet E. Go on, ask him. It's not me you don't believe, it's everyone I sent that PM to, including him. You don't believe the truth when it stares you in eye.

Pff, I give up. I have given you the facts, they are verifiable.

If you with to give in completely, to be nothing but pawns in another's victory, then so be it.

I would say you'll see I was telling the truth in the write up, but it's unnecessary, the facts have already been presented.

I think Craterus CAN'T include CURRENTLY AFFILIATED mades/wiseguys. Therefore, he is lying imo.

PMs to support the Myrddrall's statements:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Hello Seamus, you should have recieved an order for a kill of Elite Ferret from some townies. I think they may not have included a description (as planned) in their kill request.

If you haven't had the order, ignore this PM (stupid disorganised townies!)

If you have, but there was no kill description, please could you use something along these lines for the write up:

Elite Ferret is walking down the almost deserted streets. A man in a trenchcoat steps into the road. EF crouches and draws his gun.

Trenchcoated man says: "Don't shoot, I bear only a message"

Sniper shoots imobile EF. Trenchoated man drops message saying "Il Capo".

Cheers,
Myrddraal.

CCd to:
Caius; Ironside; Leet Eriksson; norwegian nerd; Proletariat; shlin28; Twilightblade; Husar;

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Is it possible for 4 townies to do a vig kill and make it look like the mafia?

The plan would be to perform the kill in such a way as only two of the townies were highly visible in the kill, and leave a call sign used by one of the families.

Even if we must die, let's at least trigger a mafia war and see who's got the guts to be Capo di Tutti Capi!

Pretty please?

Myrddraal

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Well, let's put it this way....I will usually take any narrative offered and modify it a bit rather than write whole cloth -- saves time. If that narrative named an indistinct number of attackers, I probably wouldn't alter it any....

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And the next one relating to Caius:

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Originally Posted by Caius

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Seamus has said that we can write our own kill description, and he wont edit it too much.

So we have two choices:

1. - Everybody kills a mafioso, we have a write up which doesn't mention how many killers, and leave a callsign from the "Capo di Tutti Capi" in the hope of provoking a mafia war.

OR

2. - Everybody protects Shlin, Shlin protects who he wants.


I suggest option 2. I think we're going to see a mafia war anyway.

So IMO.

Everybody should send the following order:

Caius, Ironside, Leet Eriksson, norwegian nerd, Proletariat and Twilightblade will protect Shlin.

If you dissagree, say so now! Send your replies to:

Caius; Ironside; KukriKhan; Leet Eriksson; norwegian nerd; Proletariat; shlin28; Twilightblade; Husar; Myrddraal

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No, dammit!

If we kill EF, Crate will lead his family to lynch Kage, the Crate family suffers when they are seen as traitors, and we win!

Follow my plan, and I promise Crate family will help our cause!

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Anyone need any more evidence? My doctor pm maybe?

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Ask Leet E. Go on, ask him. It's not me you don't believe, it's everyone I sent that PM to, including him. You don't believe the truth when it stares you in eye.

Pff, I give up. I have given you the facts, they are verifiable.

If you with to give in completely, to be nothing but pawns in another's victory, then so be it.

I would say you'll see I was telling the truth in the write up, but it's unnecessary, the facts have already been presented.

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Well we will see about who was right when the game ends.Hopefully sooner, rather then later.

@Craterus: That PM proves I was loyalty to you, and I'm VERY dissapointed you used us. Now, RIP Caius, shlin, and prole, the last townies.

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Originally Posted by shlin28

PMs to support the Myrddrall's statements:


And the next one relating to Caius:



Anyone need any more evidence? My doctor pm maybe?

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What evidence is this? There are two possibilities here. Either Crate played this masterful game, which town is selling and i doubt, because that would make town look like morans. Or he was played royally by the town, which i happen to believe. Either way mafia war is fruitless at this point.It only benefits the town.

FACTS:

1. I sent an email suggesting all surviving townies protect shiln
2. Caius says no, that he has a promise from Crate that he won't kill any townies, and that we should kill EF and vote Kage tomorrow.
3. I say fine, those few who are online decide that we don't have time to organise anything better, let's go with that, and submit an ambigous kill description to Seamus
4. Somehow, we had enough townies to perform the kill (or Crate sent us unexpected rienforcements, I don't know which).
5. Crate killed Norwegian Nerd. He lied about not killing any townies.

He basically used us. The town cannot win, but it would be a small victory if Crate doesn't win.

Er... how could we have to played the Craterus' family? They could have easily kept the truce, but no, they have to trust us, townies who could mostly nothing on our own.

So therefore, it is Craterus who played us, by using Caius to suggest night actions, aka kill EF.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shlin28

Er... how could we have to played the Craterus' family? They could have easily kept the truce, but no, they have to trust us, townies who could mostly nothing on our own.

So therefore, it is Craterus who played us, by using Caius to suggest night actions, aka kill EF.

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I have shown the scenario already, all you did in my opinion last night,was an fake hit against you, which probably created another doctor. This was done so scottishranger and gibsons were freed to kill their own Don, without suspicion from the mafia.

we may be stupid to be fooled in that way, but we made our best, no matter how many we were.

Now, what's next its up to you. You can disarm the craterus mafia + killing him so he cant achieve victory, or you can work with tataglia + cunnio and kill the barzinis. I do not care. We all die, some soon and others not that soon, I'm going to die soon, and I will join all in Heaven.

Nobody apart from me was there, so no protectors :inquisitive:

I survived cos of RED TEXT, attack me again you will be in for a surprise again :yes:

-- The dead may not discuss PM's in the thread in that fashion. -- SF

As for Shlin? I don't know how he survived, but it wasn't a doctor, notice the only other person in the description (a passing waiter) was killed in the explosion.

EDIT: So apparently it's red text.

Cos the town is awsome like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

What evidence is this? There are two possibilities here. Either Crate played this masterful game, which town is selling and i doubt, because that would make town look like morans. Or he was played royally by the town, which i happen to believe. Either way mafia war is fruitless at this point.It only benefits the town.

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Whatever the real situation is (I'm as clueless as anyone), it's certainly fascinating watching this Mexican standoff, knowing that directing one's efforts at any one faction will leave you exceptionally vulnerable to the others, having a deadline set for resolving this standoff, and not being able to trust anyone since one faction has already been shafted by believing in the truce. From the normal Capo wait for the autopsies, the main point of interest is now seeing which faction will betray whom, and whether or not their informal agreements hold up. At the moment the Cunnios have the advantage of an unkillable Don, while the Barzini have numbers who can be reliably mustered in their name. For everyone and everything else, it's a matter of negotiation and hoping your "friends" keep the deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Not possible. The callsign? I sent a PM with a suggestion to use that callsign for the town in it before the hit.

As for Shlin? I don't know how he survived, but it wasn't a doctor, notice the only other person in the description (a passing waiter) was killed in the explosion.

EDIT: So apparently it's red text.

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In my family´s kill there were 3 people last night.go count how many are shown in the description. That shows just how much you can read from those. But like i said already. While Cunnios are lower then dirt.Mafia victory is what counts, trying to give the town victory in form of anything is against what is said in our role pm´s.

:oops: . Sorry about that Seamus. But the alive townies can confirm that night action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

blaa,blaaa,blaaaaa. Thats weak. Even only one of the two being traitor which i doubt,would be enough for the mafia to loose during next day. Do you really think people cant count at all? If you are so sure about the town loss, im sure you dont mind the mafia gathering all under Cunnio family?

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Only because I would laugh at your folishness of getting the betrayer of the truce and you to win the game.
Our goal is to take as much of the mafia down with us. Dons preferbly. Craterus gave us an option to take out 2. So why not accepting his offer?

But I would agree with target Scottish and Gibson. If they're pro-town, they're pretty strong reinforcement's. If they aren't then they'll probably hit your family tonight to ensure Craterus' victory.

See, a target if we tell the truth or if we lie. :yes:

I didn't think we'd get such an interesting end, now where's my popcorn? :painting:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironside

:oops: . Sorry about that Seamus. But the alive townies can confirm that night action.



Only because I would laugh at your folishness of getting the betrayer of the truce and you to win the game.
Our goal is to take as much of the mafia down with us. Dons preferbly. Craterus gave us an option to take out 2. So why not accepting his offer?

But I would agree with target Scottish and Gibson. If they're pro-town, they're pretty strong reinforcement's. If they aren't then they'll probably hit your family tonight to ensure Craterus' victory.

See, a target if we tell the truth or if we lie. :yes:

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Gah! my family cant beat the Cunnios in any scenario, without also giving the victory to the town.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

In my family´s kill there were 3 people last night.go count how many are shown in the description. That shows just how much you can read from those. But like i said already. While Cunnios are lower then dirt.Mafia victory is what counts, trying to give the town victory in form of anything is against what is said in our role pm´s.

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Let see now, while your truce is technically legal, it's also impossible to play Capo with it in practice (how many of the players are/were pro-mafia, especially when you count out inactives?), as a 5 family united mafia eats the town alive.

You don't think that Seamus was allowing a bit of bending of the rules to spice up the game in the end then? You can also notice that the kill is formulated as a hit of unknown numbers but implicates atleast 2?

While your 3 man hit on me doesn't say anything about the numbers (well the rose mafia that hit me doesn't show up in numbers)... And yet it's a obvious 2 man hit on EF? :inquisitive:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Gah! my family cant beat the Cunnios in any scenario, without also giving the victory to the town.

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If we're outnumbered, how can we win?

Quote:

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Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

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As long as alternative b) cannot be fullfilled, then town cannot win. And according to your theorycrafting we need scottishranger and Gibson as wiseguys to win.

Edit: And it's already checked with Seamus, the town cannot win unless requirement b) is fullfilled

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Let see now, while your truce is technically legal, it's also impossible to play Capo with it in practice (how many of the players are/were pro-mafia, especially when you count out inactives?), as a 5 family united mafia eats the town alive.

You don't think that Seamus was allowing a bit of bending of the rules to spice up the game in the end then? You can also notice that the kill is formulated as a hit of unknown numbers but implicates atleast 2?

While your 3 man hit on me doesn't say anything about the numbers (well the rose mafia that hit me doesn't show up in numbers)... And yet it's a obvious 2 man hit on EF? :inquisitive:



If we're outnumbered, how can we win?



As long as alternative b) cannot be fullfilled, then town cannot win. And according to your theorycrafting we need scottishranger and Gibson as wiseguys to win.

Edit: And it's already checked with Seamus, the town cannot win unless requirement b) is fullfilled

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Run a scenario and look what day the town will outnumber the mafia.If mafia attack each other, the control of this game returns to town, which will be the neutral party, which will again choose who they want dead.This cycle started from the backstab of Cunnio. And will probably continue until town has won.

So no more war then?

Kage, tell your guys to join us, that way no one will die.

And I told you the Cunnios didnt kill EF. Therefore, Gibs and Scott have no reason to hate us.

No more blood spilt is necessary. The game has been played, and there is now an opportunity to end the war. These are totalwar forums, and I think there is a good saying from Rome:

"Sometimes the stronger warrior must except, no matter how it is rationalized."

So, Kage, Barzini, join us, end the game. All we need is two people. Its been great, you have to admit..but do we really need to carry it on?

It's not that easy I'm afraid TP.

I acted without honour and, according to some (probably most), do not deserve to win the game because I didn't play like a real Don etc.

The choice is with the remaining Barzini now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

So no more war then?

Kage, tell your guys to join us, that way no one will die.

And I told you the Cunnios didnt kill EF. Therefore, Gibs and Scott have no reason to hate us.

No more blood spilt is necessary. The game has been played, and there is now an opportunity to end the war. These are totalwar forums, and I think there is a good saying from Rome:

"Sometimes the stronger warrior must except, no matter how it is rationalized."

So, Kage, Barzini, join us, end the game. All we need is two people. Its been great, you have to admit..but do we really need to carry it on?

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What nonsense is this? A free round of propaganda?I have said dozen times that after my personal defeat im all for mafia victory, even if it was the filthy crowd called Cunnio family aka the towns female dog. But if the remaining Barzini decide to attack you, i wont cry for you. There is no point trying to talk to me.Im dead, you lynched me. If you want to talk to Barzini,contact the living ones.

TP - I've been skim reading thread again so correct me if I have some of this wrong.

Cunnio's proposed the idea of peace treaty and united mafia victory, which you try and convince us is possible under the rules, then we find Craterus would rather either only his family wins or the town.

Cunnio's deny being responsible for killing EF, no all they did is sanction and encourage all the townies to try and do it. Craterus sending order in would mean it only needed two wg's in town group for it to succeed.

Then they sit back and plead innocence while remains of mafia turns on itself and takes out Kage in a lynch vote.


There is scum in this game and there is such scum that a victory on their side would be worse than any form of defeat. To any remaining mafia with an ounce of honour out there, yep take out the town remnants tonight - use don bloody C's orders if you must to get wg's able to kill, but do not accept offers to join his family.

It would be better to lose as an independent than join such scum. Sort out the town and gain the 'mafia' win the rest of us worked so hard towards, but treat these scum with the contempt they deserve and do not join their shallow victory.

EDIT: oh and townies he conned you all as well apparently - but that bit I don't mind :)

Actaully, we DID NOT SEND IN A WG/MADE/ANYBODY


We had Myself, Craterus, and Xehh II....NO ONE ELSE!

Kage had 4 men..3 on one kill if hes not lying, and then 1 doing what? proabably his "luca protecting him."

Either that, or T'Blade is still a made like people say he is, and he counts as towards a 2-3 person group.

(ps T'Blade your welcome to join :beam:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

And I told you the Cunnios didnt kill EF. Therefore, Gibs and Scott have no reason to hate us.

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erm, once again..... so your actual people - for some strange reason few decided to join you - didn't kill EF, you just arranged for the towns folk to do it.

Then sat back and saw gibs and Scott accused of killing own don, until some townies smelled a rat and pointed out the truth?

Read above post :beam:

And werent you tatagalia?? We have nothing against you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makanyane

erm, once again..... so your actual people - for some strange reason few decided to join you - didn't kill EF, you just arranged for the towns folk to do it.

Then sat back and saw gibs and Scott accused of killing own don, until some townies smelled a rat and pointed out the truth?

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Mak, is either of them Made of tataglia?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

Read above post :beam:

And werent you tatagalia?? We have nothing against you!

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Ofcourse you dont.You dont have anything against any family unless their Don happens to live.:laugh4:

Honestly guys, Gibson and I did not kill EF. We went after Shlin(who we knew was a townie doctor), and somehow he survived randomly.

No, we thought you guys were in a position to attack us, witht the whole army of people you had there, and decided to strike first.

Dont even try to tell me you werent planning on doing something when Craterus wasnt director..just dont :laugh4:

Kage remember you and I are both dead I can't confirm or deny anything even being Tataglia - that is something CR said its not in write up.

EXCELLENT REMINDER! -- SF


And no apparently the Cunnios have nothing against any mafia - so long as the other groups don is dead and the remnants agree to sign up to the Cunnios

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottishranger

Honestly guys, Gibson and I did not kill EF. We went after Shlin(who we knew was a townie doctor), and somehow he survived randomly.

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FOS Scottishranger. How convenient of him to survive just randomly, while the townies supposedly were killing your Don.

Wow, this is all getting awfully complicated. :dizzy:


I will share my thoughts:

- The town did not kill EF. Craterus did. However, this is not even important. Either way, Craterus betrayed the mafia.

- The object of the town is not a win. This is not possible. Since Saturday, the object has been to force the mafia families into war. And then seize any opportunity. Presently, the object is to hop from one family to the next, forcing an eventual stalemate and a draw.*

- The mafia war did not happen through our effort. (So no more need for inflammatory taunts from us). The mafia war started because of the masterplan and betrayal of Craterus. This, all the same, was a blessing for the town.

- Kagemusha**, and others, all the mafia families have been deceived and betrayed, by one of the families. Here's the proof: Kage was lynched by the bloody mafia, eh?

So there's no such thing as 'a mafia win at all costs!' anymore.

Really, you can be mistaken in thinking that the town killed EF last night. You can still be, in fact. I can even see why anybody would think that. But surely, the lynch was there. The mafia lynched Kage. A don, no less. What more proof of cunning mafia deceat and betrayal does anybody need? So what's with all this talk of the town that needs to be defeated at all costs? ~:confused:

- I didn't think I would say this, but for the love of all those dead mafiosi who were betrayed from within for their effort, please, no living mafiosi team up with the mafia betrayers. I really don't see how people even contemplated it. You don't honour all the dead mafiosi and the mafia truce by joining the mafia betrayers, you honour it by punishing them.

- The non-Cunnio mafia can't win anymore on their own. This is obvious. What they can do, however, is join the masterplan of the town: force this game into a stalemate. How? By forging a new alliance between all non-Cunnio players.

The choice, however painful to accept, is clear. Either, team up with the family that broke the truce, be betrayed again, and lose to them. Or team up with everybody else, avenge the mafia betrayers, and not lose the game.



* And the object is not and has not been a town defeat while taking out as many mafiosi as possible, as some townies seem to think. Come on, guys, where is your ambition. Surely, I am not the only town player who has not even blinked his eyes once since Saturday? What's with the panic all of the time?

**You are Finnish, I believe. Great culture. But let me tell you about Mediterranean culture. If somebody ***** you over, stabs you in the back and drags your dead body down the streets, then your family does not team up with the people who did this to you. Instead, they drop everything and fight this vendetta out to the last.
This is mafia, Kage. You are not simply Latin, but Sicilian too. And a don, a Godfather at that. For God's sake, if you send your family to join the Cunnio's, I will send you a real-life ticket for a holiday in Sicily this summer. There, you can tell how you played mafia, how you were a Godfather, how you were stabbed in the back in broad daylight for all to see, by people you knew by name and whom your family was allied with. And how you then requested your family to not take revenge, but instead to join up with your backstabbing killers, in the name of 'honouring your family's obligations'. :inquisitive:

Here's what: you will be quartered by a pack of mules right on the spot, simply for making such a mockery out of Sicily's millenia old and very proud civilisation.

Wow Kag, there is no way I would kill EF. Gibson and I attacked Shlin, it says both of us.

I ask you this, who attacked Shlin then? Hmm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottishranger

Wow Kag, there is no way I would kill EF. Gibson and I attacked Shlin, it says both of us.

I ask you this, who attacked Shlin then? Hmm?

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Read the thread.

EDIT: And Louis, if you want to start teaching lessons to me about bad temper, id suggest you teach someone else. The Cunnios make me sick at the stomach, but you dont seem to understand that some things are greater then your own benefit and this is the mafia victory for any mafioso, if he reads his pm. You have bad habbit lecturing people how to play while you were killed yourself ages a go, because your group was unorganized. Dont assume things of people you dont know.

You know what? I don't even care who wins anymore. I just want to watch this thing go on longer.

Seriously, the last ten pages or so are an example of human psychology at its finest. :yes:

I have been Kag, and I know you have absolutely no reason to trust me, none at all. But I know that I sent in orders to kill Shlin, and I know Gibson did to. We have no idea how Shlin survived, no idea(though it appears to me to be some red text luck)

Why would we kill EF? Why would I even want the town win? I have been mafied aligned this entire time, even as a townie. I need the mafia to win.