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Originally Posted by Ironside
The problem with a bubble is that people doesn't need to realise that it's a bubble until it breaks and that breaking usually starts out very small if it's driven far enough.
I'd qualify that as most people. There are always some people who can see a crisis on the horizon, the very fact that we're discussing it proves that. Another problem is that as soon as the majority of people realise there is a bubble, it will burst, as people will panic and try to distance themselves from the coming chaos. As you say, the bursting can begin small-scale, but eventually it will become obvious and that's when it becomes a problem.
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The downside with a quick cure is that it can hurt more that the problem that it tries to fix. It's tricky to do it correctly. All I can say is that there's interesting times ahead, but I suspect that it usually it that way. :book:
The quick fix is always a risk, but in this case I'm not even sure that there is quick fix. Long-term it will have to be.
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Depends on what scale, while it seems to moving away from Socialism today, the pendulum will probably turn again within a few decades. A good question is what's optimal for humanity though, we still seem to construct our own ineqaulity by ourself. Limiting it is certainly a good goal though.
The pendulum will turn when people realise that capitalism is an inherently flawed system, but I'd suspect that that wouldn't be for a few centuries at this rate. What is optimal for humanity is a good question and one that will have to be answered by better minds than mine. I'd like to point out that inequality isn't constructed by human thought however, it is everpresent in our genetic makeup. Until all humans are clones, or at least as in a book I read recently a hive mind (now that was scary), intellectual and physical differences will make for an unequal society. However it is down to us to make it as fair as possible.
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Democracy it is, working through revolutions doesn't seem to work well and without enough support you'll need oppression to make it work and that is hardly consistant with Socialism.
I should hope so, I'm definitely not advocating revolution!
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The faster the money travels the system, the larger the economy. Loans work as really good lubricant for that. They aren't all bad though, as some give atleast partial economical equality.
Things starts to get tricky when you start to loan out money that you haven't gotten yet, and it isn't certain that you'll get them.
The whole issue is down to speculation. In my mind it doesn't make sense to give away money that doesn't exist yet. If the banks have the money then yes they should lend it (I agree that loans can provide the basis for a more equal economy), but if they don't then tough luck. They were just asking for trouble.
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Originally Posted by PrivateerKev
But a good evidence that a bubble is a bubble is that it is built on things that aren't real or false assumptions. The housing bubble was built on the assumption that houses would continue to rise in value even though more were being built. Eventually you run out of people to buy the homes. Some people saw this early on but they were ignored.
Thats because its too much like common sense. Economic 'experts' are far above realising that if supply outstrips demand prices go down. :laugh4:
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True. But I worry that "slow progress" will just turn into stagnation. So I push for quicker change while still supporting incremental progressive measures. Because even small positive change is better than nothing.
I'd support your analysis, but what exactly are you proposing (apologies if you have already mentioned it, I must have missed it :bow:)?
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I support socialism because it seems to be an ideology that underpins social change that is in line with my values of equality and fairness. If for some reason socialism proves to be harmful to these values, I would drop it like a bad habit.
Egalitarianism is sadly undervalued in todays society. Socialism is the political/economic model that most reflects egalitarian values, hence my tacit support for it also.
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I have the feeling that the question of "when is revolution a moral imperative" could be a backroom thread all by itself.
And sure to raise the ire of our conservative friends... :laugh4:
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A very good point! There seems to be this assumption that a few countries will be on top of the heap while others will be happy to provide cheap labor and lax enviromental laws. But the developing nations want to be where we are. Which is physically unsustainable. The planet simply can not support every nation having the level of development that America has. So our government walks a fine line between getting countries to open up their land for development, while still keeping them subserviant through unfair trade deals.
Unfortunately true.
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If you really want to get frightened by our financial system, look into "short selling". Basically you bet that a stock will go down in value. You borrow the money to sell the stock that you don't actually own. But you promise to actually purchase it at a later date. On that date, if the stock went down, you keep the difference.
Gah!:no: :dizzy2:
