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Maybe it's just me, but in my circles if someone found out their house had been burgled, even if they caught sight of the burglars, their primary thought would be to think of ways of bigging up their losses so as to claim more from the insurers than the stolen property's worth.
Have you been drinking or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
I read the article and didn't see any mention of police presence when he shot the man. I didn't see your other condescending post either, so my mistake.
Birds are harder to hit because they are smaller....(just to be a smart***)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Now if one is questioning his judgement I wouldn't have a problem with it at all, I find his judgement in the shooting questionable.
My father in law was a police officer until his retirement at 65. So yep older gentlemen have the ability to reason and even handle stressful situations. I find your inablity to understand that when an individual reaches the age of adulthood, age rarely has the effect on judgement that people think. If you can prove he was mentally impaired because of senility or other mental incapaticiting age related conditions - I might see your point, but nothing demonstrates he suffered from such a condition.Quote:
Just tell me, at what age are police officers usually taken of the streets in the US? Are they still on the streets when they are 61? Do police send 61 year old men to deal with situations like this one? I'd say no. Why do you think is that? And if I'm not mistaken, he fired 3 shots.
If the man can physical handle the weapon and the conditions one faces while hunting - then let them hunt. Nothing prevents him from doing that - expect your own age prejuidice. My 65 year old father still works construction, running heavy equipment and welding. He is in far better shape then many 20 year olds. So get off the age bashing unless you can prove the man had a physcial or mental age related condition.Quote:
My father is 68 and if he was the type to go out for occasional hunting, I'd advise him not to. He's still sharp, but his reflexes, his eyesight, his hand-eye coordination etc... is far cry from what it was 20 years ago. And if it's not life or death situation, I'd prefer not to see men his age carrying and using lethal weapons "for fun". Gardening is just as useful as a hobby...
No, no, no. If you shoot him at an angle he will spin around, clutching the TV and fall on his back - making a perfect cushion for the flatscreen. Then all that has to be done is to pry it from his cold, dead fingers and resume your normally scheduled programming.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Out of interest does anyone know what happened to the goods the thiefs were carrying ?
Sometimes this forum is just amazing.
A white grand jury dismisses the case against a white guy who shot two Latinos in the back over someone else's tv. And we're discussing the legality of it.
D'uh!
I think the police should have shot everyone involved: the burglars, Joe Horn, the :daisy: neighbor, everyone.
Why should the taxpayer be burdened with the cost of investigating other peoples' business? I mean, what's a couple of lives to any of us? Come on, my Granddad could have killed all of you when he was 61.
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Well yeah were discussing the legality, what are you getting atQuote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Musical score
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The streets were dark with something more than a bad setting in my video options panel. I sat in my car with the window turned down listening to the little lady on $10 heels making me propositions while my cup o’ coffee went stale.
https://img107.imageshack.us/img107/...lery128ap5.jpg
The sleepy night cop passed by on his daily round. The clock struck twelve. That’s when I knew ‘Popeye’ was dead. At my age you know people. And you know death.
Panzerjäger had been his real name. I knew I liked him the moment he walked in that joint where I had my weekly appointment with a bottle of gin. A big, loveable hulk of a guy, Popeye had more heart than brains, but he had enough of both to give him ideas for the rest of his life. That’s how we got talking.
He said he was with the cranky crowd, and that’s where he was alright. He walked with the black shirts. But he didn’t belong to them. He wanted to belong to America on his own terms, not America’s, and that made him more of an American than he would ever realise.
You couldn’t trust Popeye with your vote, but you could trust him with your wife, your wallet, or even your car. Know what I mean?And I knew that, for all his bragging and feigned indifference, if I ever needed him to pull me out of trouble he would be there. That’s why I called him that night. He promised to meet me at midnight. I knew he would. Unless they got to him first.
They probably did.
What’s it to me? I don’t know. In my business, you have to look after number one. That’s what I told myself while I hit the gas and cast a last look in my rear mirror at the hot number with her lopsided grin.
Three days later someone dropped the police report on my doormat. In my line of work someone always does. ‘The deceased, a Mr P., was accidentally shot while trying to protect an unarmed individual from being mugged. Police mistook him for the robber. The victim of the attempted robbery, a 31-year-old jobless man with no fixed abode who claimed to be a professional guitar player, denied having any personal association with the deceased.’
Shot while protecting a hippie, of all people.
OK this just screams for a talk-noir contest. Andres GARCON
Wrong thread. Whatever. Cornell Woolrich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
`Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Ah I see. So how long have you two been dating?
Forget it, pal, unless you show me the color of your money first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Adrian II is having a noir period. And it fits him like a glove.
:laugh4:
Im not sure what, if anything, that had to do with me but I liked it.
:inquisitive:
Wait, did you imply that I date hippies?
You might like this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Just to make it clear - I wasn't saying that the shooting would have been justified if he was younger, only that there is a decent chance of eyesight, hand-eye coordination and therefore his aim being bad since he is 61 years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Again, I didn't say that people can't work in the police when they're 61 or older, just that you'll rarely see them on the streets, making arrests. Older people will usually be involved in administrative duties within the department.Quote:
My father in law was a police officer until his retirement at 65. So yep older gentlemen have the ability to reason and even handle stressful situations. I find your inablity to understand that when an individual reaches the age of adulthood, age rarely has the effect on judgement that people think. If you can prove he was mentally impaired because of senility or other mental incapaticiting age related conditions - I might see your point, but nothing demonstrates he suffered from such a condition.
I'm not age bashing! For the love of God people, stop looking for "isms" whenever someone criticize something. I already said that I believe it was wrong. Moral and legal implications would be the same if Mr. Horn was 20 years old. I was saying that I would rather have 2000$ worth of my property stolen then to live next door to an elderly trigger happy person. To quote myself:Quote:
If the man can physical handle the weapon and the conditions one faces while hunting - then let them hunt. Nothing prevents him from doing that - expect your own age prejuidice. My 65 year old father still works construction, running heavy equipment and welding. He is in far better shape then many 20 year olds. So get off the age bashing unless you can prove the man had a physcial or mental age related condition.
Not that I would be okay with living next door to a 20 year old trigger happy idiot, but at least the chance that his eyesight, reflexes or anything else is not the best is much smaller.Quote:
Personally, I'd rather have stuff from my home stolen than have an elderly, trigger-happy computer technician with a shotgun on the loose in my neighbourhood...
Let me give you similar example, like when you're driving in a car with someone in his thirties or with someone in his seventies. Not that I haven't seen people aged 70+ drive safer then some much younger people or that I think it's impossible for elderly people to drive safely, but, everything else the same, I'd feel safer with a younger guy, especially if I don't know the person well. Get my point? Now, I'm even more touchy when it comes to guns.
Disclaimer: I love elderly people. My parents are elderly people. Ma grandparents aren't alive anymore unfortunately, but if they were, they would be elderly people. I have a lot of elderly people in my family and I love them very much. When I was younger I used to offer my seat in the bus to elderly people if none other was free, I used to help (and I still do) elderly people across the street and with their groceries or their bags. So please don't accuse me of ageism or age bashing... And anyway, it was a minor point in my post :yes:
Are you unaware of what I'm referring to? Why don't you go look it up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Some people answer their doors with guns on their hips, you know.Quote:
If I hear one more I-love-guns idiot bitch about how these guys deserved it, I'm gonna find his address, politely knock on his front door (unarmed, of course) and, when he comes to the door, I will flatten his nose across his face.
Oh, and the robbers deserved it.
And that is kind of the point. One can intervene with deadly force to protect a third party's life - why not then to protect their property, as one can protect one's own property?
I can not fault Joe Horn for walking outside and confronting the burglars - for fighting that cruel indifference hoisted on us by certain parts of society - the voice that says to shrink from confrontation instead of sticking up for what is right.
And I can fault no person for shooting known criminals if they know you have a gun and yet run at you. That is what the undercover cop said one criminal did - ran at Joe Horn for a moment. He gambled, having lost one gamble already.
CR
I think Joe should just count himself very lucky that they weren't armed, how many times do homeowners try to protect themselves with weapons only to find the criminals better equipped, more skilled with a gun or more prepared to pull the trigger.
That's why you make sure that, as the homeowner, you shoot them first?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
That's why you make sure that, as the homeowner, you shoot them first?
Thats why you stay the hell out of the way, call the police and barricade yourself in a room until they go, though if it comes to it and your face to face guns in hand, yes.
So the police come late and never catch them, meaning they're not much of a help in the first place? Yeah, sounds wonderful.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
To bad that isn't what you initially stated. In fact you would still have to prove this impaired his ability to reason for the action to be wrong. So in other words it truely has no bearing on the issue at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Well since my father-in-law was a cop, and was involved in arrests and yes even a shooting of an individual who broke into someone's home and threaten them harm - that yes even when police are in their 60's they do perform such duties.Quote:
Again, I didn't say that people can't work in the police when they're 61 or older, just that you'll rarely see them on the streets, making arrests. Older people will usually be involved in administrative duties within the department.
So if I was a young trigger happy person it would make you feel better about yourself? Did you know that a 20 year old is more likely not to take aim, just fire randomly at the target because they watch all those movies and see how gang bangers shoot their weapons? So yes your indeed age bashing wether you wish to acknowledge it or not.Quote:
I'm not age bashing! For the love of God people, stop looking for "isms" whenever someone criticize something. I already said that I believe it was wrong. Moral and legal implications would be the same if Mr. Horn was 20 years old. I was saying that I would rather have 2000$ worth of my property stolen then to live next door to an elderly trigger happy person. To quote myself:
Not that I would be okay with living next door to a 20 year old trigger happy idiot, but at least the chance that his eyesight, reflexes or anything else is not the best is much smaller.
compare accident rates between the individuals in their 30's versus individuals in their 70's. Your stuck on criticizing people for being old and functioning on their own. I know more irresponsible 30 year old drivers then I know 70 year old irresponsible drivers.Quote:
Let me give you similar example, like when you're driving in a car with someone in his thirties or with someone in his seventies. Not that I haven't seen people aged 70+ drive safer then some much younger people or that I think it's impossible for elderly people to drive safely, but, everything else the same, I'd feel safer with a younger guy, especially if I don't know the person well. Get my point? Now, I'm even more touchy when it comes to guns.
- notice how you claim you aren't but claim you feel safer with a younger driver. .... Spend much time along the nile.......Quote:
Disclaimer: I love elderly people. My parents are elderly people. Ma grandparents aren't alive anymore unfortunately, but if they were, they would be elderly people. I have a lot of elderly people in my family and I love them very much. When I was younger I used to offer my seat in the bus to elderly people if none other was free, I used to help (and I still do) elderly people across the street and with their groceries or their bags. So please don't accuse me of ageism or age bashing... And anyway, it was a minor point in my post :yes:
So back to subject - the man exhibited poor judgement in his actions - just like the poor judgement of the younger men to committ a criminal act in robbing the house. Poor judgement effects those of all ages.
Yep - I was rather amused that this wasn't brought up earlier by someone. I strongly suspect one of the reasons that no criminal charges were brought forth by the grand jury is because of the illegal immigrant status of the two dead men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Actually I wonder why the plain clothes officer didn't indentify himself to none of the parties involved?Quote:
I think the police should have shot everyone involved: the burglars, Joe Horn, the :daisy: neighbor, everyone.
Well I can one-up you on that, my great-grandfather who lived to be 101, could of killed everyone when he was 98.....Quote:
Why should the taxpayer be burdened with the cost of investigating other peoples' business? I mean, what's a couple of lives to any of us? Come on, my Granddad could have killed all of you when he was 61.
So the police come late and never catch them, meaning they're not much of a help in the first place? Yeah, sounds wonderful.
well everyone lives!
I suppose this comes down to how much you value a criminals life, I value all life highly and if were talking someone like a petty criminal i wouldn't really value thier life any less than the normal person, i could only take a life in extreme circumstances (or unintentionally)
speaking of age has anyone else noticed adrains avatar age dramatically ?
Breaking into my house, stealing my goods, and directly or indirectly threatening myself or whatever family or guests I have at the time is already enough to warrant a bullet, at least from my point of view. I don't support the death penalty, but if I catch someone doing these things in my house...let the courts decide whether I am right or wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
Well in this thread at least it was someone else's property that was taken, and from the sounds of it they where shot in the back, i don't find turned backs to threatening...
I can understand going for someone you discover in your house or even trying to give chase to recover property but i couldn't and wouldn't shoot them in the back as they run away
I support this guys use of deadly force. This sends an appropriate message that I wish was sent more often.
The act was just, the law agrees and so do a number of people on this forum.
The reason it isn't sent more often is homeowners out trying to take on a criminal in a gun often lose....
Show me a statistical source for your claim, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
Show me a statistical source for your claim, please.
Damn you people and your like of evidence.... ill search it up tomorrow im heading off to bed now, this isn't actually a statistic i have heard or read but i think its a fairly obvious one. The criminals are almost always better armed and more skilled with thier weapons... I know if i was a criminal with a gun going into households that are potentially armed i am going to be packing some pretty mean weaponary and im going to make sure i can use it properly, add to this the fact the homeowners aren't prepared and the criminals are..... you have a recipe for a fight that is going to go in favour of the criminals much more often....
so... pure conjecture? I appreciate that you will look for the numbers. If a criminal really thought he would meet heavy enough resistance in a private residence while stealing jewelry and a television, maybe he would just rob a store or bank instead of bringing an M1A1 with depleted uranium to the suburbs, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
lets find the statistics and argue in the morning, k?
I beg to differ. An illegal immigrant who bought/stole a pistol versus a forty-year old average, gun-owning, American male?Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
No contest.