Maybe I was unclear when I said :flower: off.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
If you replace :flower: with a very common slang word for intercourse, you might very well finally understand what I mean.
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Maybe I was unclear when I said :flower: off.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
If you replace :flower: with a very common slang word for intercourse, you might very well finally understand what I mean.
Well if it makes you feel better, I don't like you really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Horetore is accusing a lot of people of anecdote abuse, but seems to be prone to it himself. I look at statistics for my country. Violent crime is the purview of minorities by dramatic margins. Does this mean that ethnicity causes it? Nope, but ignorant desperation causes it and is made worse by each action which causes the natives to recoil. Reality and engagement are needed. Maybe pre-k and kindergarten - maybe immigration quotas and background checks for coming into the country. Maybe allowing law abiding Americans to carry firearms everywhere. Far right extremism isn't the answer, but living in a Scandinavian leftist-la-la-land probably isn't either
I think you do, and contrary to HT you are more than welcome to a beer and a couch in Stockholm :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Yeah I kinda liedQuote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
That's sort of my belief as well... Let's be... moderate?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
However, it feels weird being agreed by an USAnian... I mean, it's not like the Native Indians have a very positive view of what your immigration did for them.
If anything, your nation should serve as a warning example for other ethnic groups.
Hooliganism involves a few hundred people every week, hardly anecdotal(but it would be, if I tried to make a claim that all Swedes are criminals). If you instead referred to my lack of statistics for the ethnic make-up of hooligan firms, well... Hooligan firms, being hounded by both clubs and police, do not reveal their identities and will certainly not reveal membership lists... I've provided "team photos" of half a dozen firms(remembering that the Swedish league consists of only 16 teams). I stopped there because I believed I had made my point; if you want team photos for the rest of the firms I can probably dig them up as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Sports hooliganism is unique to Europe. People in the US have no idea what the hell is wrong with people who assault one another over soccer.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Why are we still discussing hooliganism?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Don't feed the troll.
Here's a thought, every nation should have 10% immigrants from all over the world. In a controlled manner.
What do you think about that?
Can't be a hooligan without proper clubs, and the US doesn't have any....Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Sure. Controlled assimilation and cultural exchange is great. Immigrants do wonders for their host civilizations, but too much is bad for everyone. They came to our countries to be safe and have a future. It would suck if our countries became less safe and fell off of an economic cliff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Heckling only works if I have some idea what you are talking about. I have never seen anyone become heated about sports teams. White people in the US; where I live, are spineless, demure lightweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
This is the perfect population to keep and bear arms - a population which de-escalates and avoids conflict is precisely the population which is best suited to arms.
I feel an ownership towards my club. I grew up in it, I played for it, I have worked for it. It's been in my town for a century, and basically everyone I know in my town have the same connection to it as I do. The football league they play in are formed by the clubs. In the US, it's the other way around. The league forms the clubs, and the clubs are business franchises instead of community centers where people grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Then add some crime, a sprinkle of gangs and drugs, top it off with alienation from society and voila; you have a hooligan.
It's honestly a case of Mah-rug beating Gar-gar who lives in the cave at the other end of the valley in the head with a club. Stone age mentality deluxe.
That was a new and interesting take on it, cheers :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Problem is though, if you start spreading weapons around in society, what makes them not go to other more ill-willed groups, if you accept multiple cultures in society?
I am sure you don't propose race-laws, where whites are allowed guns and negroes not.
I would absolutely love living in a white society where everyone could carry a gun. I honestly think that would be a very safe place to be. It's only when you start adding in other factors that the question get all muddled.
Only thing you can apply to violence is more violence. I know a thing or two about street violence, More aggressive wins in the street. What happened to Kad could have happen to anyone. He did not have a say about it, as these '"tough guys " want to beat men as these pansies think of such. My unofficial advice is to gather few good friends and possibly some baseball bats. Not that i would ever advice violence.:shrug:
I'd love to, but I have no idea who they are (again)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
However, if my google-fu ever comes up with a verdict of a gang being accused of this exact crime, I cant promise I wont note their names and location down for future use.
I wouldnt call friends, but wait until we have a 1vs1 situation.
I am sergeant in the Swedish Arctic Rangers. I have trained Pencak Silat.
They gave me the courtesy of having no witnesses around, and gentlemanly as I am I would of course return the favour. They chose to bring friends, I chose to bring my old silat sticks.
Would have to leave doggy at home though, would never endanger him unless jumped upon.
So, uh, OWG enforcing a command economy and technocratically-driven population transfers? Maybe you've got a clue after all. :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Unfortunately, "white" is not a culture...Quote:
I would absolutely love living in a white society where everyone could carry a gun. I honestly think that would be a very safe place to be. It's only when you start adding in other factors that the question get all muddled.
Ultimately, if your state has failed its under-privileged immigrants, it won't do to just blame the immigrants for being from 'incompatible cultures'. It's give and take.
One more thing: if you don't like Somalian immigrants, why do you generalize this animosity to all "Sub-Saharans"? They're all darkies, so a Liberian and a Kenyan might as well be the same as a Somalian? You know what we call this sort of thinking...
This is blatant nonsense. Sports is crap and I hate it with fury. Anyone who invests more than a jovial nod to a bunch of idiots getting worked up over a ball is a blithering lunatic. All of the things that you just said about gang war aggression over colorful shortshorts and a ball is insane nonsense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I don't want to see only white people with guns, but I would love to see calm and rational people of all backgrounds with guns.
Quite a lot of people think I've do got a clue. Welcome to the fold brother ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
"White" is not a culture... But I don't mind loading the dice.
As to your last part, first of all, Libya is not Sub-Saharan. Secondly, Somalis are to Africa what Gypsys are to Europe. Or to put it even more blunt, Somalis is what other African cultures look down upon.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no big fan of African culture at large. But to then import the culture that Africa looks down upon...
I guess you call that line of thinking "Realistic".
Liberia, not Libya.
Kadagar,
My sincere condolences. I can't imagine the mental and physical pain. I hope and pray for your full recovery.
Best Regards,
Crazed Rabbit
Thank you, it means a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Sweden got off easy. You guys have only a few percents of eastern Europeans in the population. I live in a country where the population is 100% eastern European. I see 20-30 rapes and several dozens assaults every time I go to work.
The problem with your theory is that those eastern European countries have generally much lower level of violent crimes, assaults and rapes than Sweden. Even if you argue that it has more to do with under-reporting of crimes (which is certainly true), the difference is too large to ignore.
Taking into account different type of crimes, like murder (which can not be under-reported, the victim is there, the body exists), Sweden has more than Bulgaria and Romania.
Or if you want a different example, Scotland has much more violent crimes and assaults than England, and ethnicity of Scotland is 95% Scottish/British and 5% immigrants, while England is 85% English/British and 15% of various brown, black and Arabic people.
Hey, I fully agree with you on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Wow, the senate is hard at debate today.
OK, since this topic is also about football hooligans, I'll give my view on the matter and then bugger off, because only my opinion is important to me and I don't read what others write because I'm so self-absorbed.
Every country has football hooligans. In Bulgaria they are 99% white, pure blooded Bulgarian youths, aged 15 to 25. Shaved heads, which are mostly empty and a lot of beer and testosterone. Their primary occupation includes: beating on the guy with a different coloured scarf than that of their own club, drinking beer, wrecking public property and taking police batons in the teeth.
They gather like the remnants of late classical antiquity tribes. Each tribe has its local warlord and they carry some banners and go to war. Seriously, they go to football games mainly to drink some booze and have a fight. I enjoy traveling the country in my car. They enjoy fighting. They admit it and everything.
Most of them are kids from the farthest blocks of Sofia, the mini-ghettoes where you can get mugged on a bus stop. Where just 10-15 years ago, if you went to highschool and had nice looking sneakers, you better know how to fight or you have to go back home barefoot. A lot of them are orphans, delinquents, or other such vulnerable kids - they lack education, they lack the motivation to be educated and the grow into ignorant and poor adults.
I have not done extensive research but I imagine the football hooligans in the UK or Turkey or wherever are the same. Heck, the English hooligans pride themselves on being superior hooligans. They are more hooligan-y than the scrub hooligans from other countries. Until they get stabbed for causing trouble in Turkey lol.
So, this part of society exists everywhere. It is not related to importing people of other ethnicity and culture who do not get integrated in your society but turn to similar medieval activities. But instead of beating on other like minded medieval tribesmen, they beat on regular upstanding citizens who actually contribute to the country. If they don't beat on them, they pickpocket, steal, jack cars and so on.
IMO the first rule of immigration should be: only allow those inside, who want to be a productive member of the society and who prove before hand that they can contribute, and who are then routinely monitored that they do so.
Also, there needs to be a stop to this hippie bullcrap of reverse discrimination, where a police officer can lose his job for manhandling a dark skinned person because "Le gasp! Le racism!". No, skin colour does not make one a criminal. But if one behaves as a criminal he should not get special treatment by law enforcement, just because we want to be politically correct, progressive, upstanding young liberal asshats.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcyG8QTlqXkQuote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
How would you like your stea- I mean Europe sir, scorched or bloody, medium is unavailable I'm afraid
While I'm glad everyone's getting all authoritarian-statist here, that's clearly excessive and a waste of resources.Quote:
IMO the first rule of immigration should be: only allow those inside, who want to be a productive member of the society and who prove before hand that they can contribute, and who are then routinely monitored that they do so.
Is it - when society is in free fall?Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
The Sweden I grew up in isn't the Sweden I live in now. And it hasn't changed for the better.
Myth, I honestly believe that the meeting of cultures, unless very harshly monitored, quite often leads to the worse of both (or all) cultures being enhanced.
Take the words "whore" or "slut"... When I was in school, those were words that were just no-no. A girl would claw your eyes out if you uttered them to her. Today, with the muslim influx, I doubt few girls can go through school without being called those words.
It's not because muslims treat their women like shit in their own cultures (well........), it's because it's the meeting of cultures that created the problem. Swedish feminism and dress codes meet muslim view on women and dress codes. It's easy to see where this goes wrong, and it explains why rapes are now the new cool thing to have in your psychological backpack as a hot young girl in Sweden.
In your example of Bulgaria, I guess the police are rather strict and baton-friendly when it comes to explaining where these juvenile criminals can and can't monkey up.
In Sweden, the police isn't baton friendly and thus that culture can roam free in society at large.
It's the meeting of cultures that creates culture-clashes, the cultures themselves mustn't necessarily be ill functioning as is.
The police are very strict when it comes to beating on ethnic Bulgarians.
See this article from last year. Translated, the title says: "40,000 police officers will be securing the Levski - CSKA football game"
Fourty thousand. Our entire regular army is 30, 000
They however, are neutered and can't enforce the law in the rural regions where we get reports of roma raping grandmothers, breaking into houses, stealing livestock in broad daylight and such. They don't lack the courage or the baton power, but they are stopped by the brass to avoid any misunderstanding with Brussels. No one wants to be bombed because they're oppressing the minority! However, this leads to the minorities oppressing the elderly and defenseless in the rural regions.
You know what's funny? When the son of a local Roma crime boss, known for the distilling of fake alcohol (i've had Jack Daniels which tasted like pig slop mixed with rubbing alcohol in the past) murdered a Bulgarian kid the football hooligans were the ones who went to defend the other people in that village. They also torched his place. The police beat only on the hooligans. IMO they should have beaten on all of them. I mean, the Roma deserve to not be discriminated against and be denied the police baton to the teeth!
bottom line: the police should be empowered to do their job and no drama would be had.
I am working on a thread about gypsys, to share with you all. So let's not dwell on that debate (I of course see your point though).Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Do I read you right, when you agree that eastern European football hooliganism isn't the problem, as you there send more than your regular army to games, whereas it becomes a problem in Sweden, where we send "dialogue police" to matches.
Don't get me wrong, of course it's also a problem in your country.
But you do understand my view of it being the culture clashes that mainly creates problems?
I think Gypsys, as an example and again let's not dwell on it overly here - would cut their "burden on society" short if they lived in a strictly Gypsy society. Not that they want to, of course.