Hmm, I'd like to join, but only as a moral supporter. Don't feel like research. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
~Wiz
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Hmm, I'd like to join, but only as a moral supporter. Don't feel like research. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
~Wiz
Just a small update - been doing some reading but found nothing useful. Still no luck with those sword pictures. Still not got much time.
I want to join, guys I can do the Mediterranean Civ (Greeks, Romans) research. Please? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
Just a remark, you should better hurry, the game is going through the final artwork and polishing phase, the creative input for new/better units has to come soon or CA will not be able to put it in if they elect to do so.
Personally, I'd try to have it done until the ides of March. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
It's anoying. I'm trying to find some sica pictures (the common dacian sword, small and curved) and I can't find anything except for a small depiction on Trajan's column. Anyone of you knows a good site on stuff related to this?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Btw, I don't think it's quite in the final stages. But they're giving us more material now with the unit descritions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-yes.gif
I found one in a few seconds with google's image search: reasonable sica picture and there were a lot more results but no time to sift through themQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Really, I couldn't find that page; anyway, it won't do very much good, as the weapon you present is a modified version of the dacian weapon, only for the gladiator fights.
But thanks alot, hopes are higher now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif Btw, congratulations for gaining some HOF's this year, it really reflects the work you've put for the community. Keep up it up, right up.
woooooosh........
*observes tumbleweeds in TK's "woooooooosh"*
~Wiz
*observes random Indians running by....*
Yup the neverending holiday ends tomorrow... I see that we got only 3-4 people doing the research... as I've predicted.. Can people post what they've found so far and for which factions?
very true, I'm still trying to recover from my birthday (last Friday)...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
P.S.: I really liked the stuff you posted on the web, keep it up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-guitarist.gif
Sure Give me 6000$ to build a studio, I can send you a new one every two days http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wall.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
I'll get right on that m8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-dizzy2.gif I'm ready. I finally finished my work on the Germanic Units and carefully confirmed my Informations. The last things that are left to do for my Sector are germanic structures and Provinces. I'm sorry Monk that I didn't implent you into the work as you might have deserved...
The Following Text is the final version how germanic Units should be:
Lancemen
--- Formed by the Frydmen of Germania, who have learned to life with the icy Winters and short Summers of their Lands, these Lancemen are known for their Sacrifice on their Masters. Julius Caesar discribes them as disciplined, hard-nosed Warriors fighting in a dense formation he called a "Phalanx". Their mantall Shields, packed one at the other, indeed supplied an almost perfect Protection while their Lances belonged to the deadlyest in the Ancient World. ---
The Germanic Lancers are similar to Hellenistic Hopilites and later English Fyrds (while the Fyrds are their decendants).
“After they had overthrown the Roman cavalry with a densely packed formation, they formed their shield wall (phalanx) and attacked our first battle line from below” (Caes. BG I, 24,2: »REIECTO NOSTRO EQUITATU, PHALANGE FACTA SUB PRIMAM NOSTRAM ACIEM SUCCESSERUNT.«).
Shortly afterwards “they quickly formed their shield wall as they are used to, and repelled our sword attack” (Caes. BG I, 52,4: »AT GERMANI CELERITER EX CONSUETUDINE SUA PHALANGE FACTA IMPETUS GLADIORUM
EXCEPERUNT.«).
Caesar here discribes a Battle he had with them under Ariovistus. As you can see Jules Caesar definatly said Phalange / Phalanx and he intends that this "Phalanx" was trained, throughout he says the Shield wall was formed "quickly".
the dreadful Germanic lances that “inflict wounds from a formidable distance” (Tac. ann. I, 64: »HASTAE INGENTES AD VULNERA FACIENDA QUAMVIS PROCUL«) Germanic graves have revealed specimens of a length of 41-45 cm with lateral cut-outs If this type of thrusting lance is mentioned they are called “enormous” or “over-long lances” (Tac. ann II, 14: »ENORMIS HASTAS«; ann. II, 21: »PRAELONGAS HASTAS«). These expressions may refer to the length of the shaft and respectively to the length and width of the point. In the battle at the Angrivarian Wall (16 AD) the Imperial Guard was not able to storm the Wall because they received severe thrusts from above, and Germanicus Caesar had to withdraw them (cf. Tac. ann. II, 20: »QUIS INPUGNANDUS AGGER, UT SI MURUM
SUCCEDERENT, GRAVIBUS SUPERNE ICTIBUS CONFLICTABANTUR. SENSIT DUX INPAREM COMMINUS PUGNAM…«). The weapons that inflicted those blows from above may well have been such “enormous” and “over-long” lances.
The Germanic Lance Tacitus mentioned is a deadly Weapon with long (about 41-45 Cm) Spearheads, making the Warriors able to break almost any Armor from the Distance.
Abilities:
- Bonus against armored Enemys
- Disciplined
- Large Shield
- Bonus against Cavallary
- Good Morale
- Good Charge
Skirmishers (Light Arms)
„As long distance weapons Germanics used javelins. Each warrior carried several of them, and threw them “extremely far” as Tacitus remarks full of admiration (Tac. Germ. 6). The “framea” that Tacitus describes (Germ. 6: “They carry spears that they call frameas, with a short and narrow, but very sharp point, very practical for use. As circumstances require they fight with the same weapon at short or long range” – »HASTAS VEL IPSORUM VOCABULO FRAMEAS GERUNT ANGUSTO ET BREVI FERRO, SED ITA ACRI ET AD USUM HABILI, UT EODEM
TELO, PROUT RATIO POSCIT, VEL COMMINUS VEL EMINUS PUGNENT.«), was used as a throwing spear as well. It was about 6 foot long, had a rather small iron head, and could be used as a throwing or thrusting weapon. Some javelins had barbed heads as grave deposits reveal.“
Along with the Framea, lightly armed germanics also used the „Sasha“ or „Sax“-Sword which Tacitus doesn’t know (but is prooved through Artifact-Founds). The Sax was a thin blade which was very sharp and easy to produce, the negative fact is that it would directly break if a Combatant tried to block the enemy’s Strike.
Abilities:
Fast
Small Shield
Good Morale
Comitati Lancemen / Comitati Swordsmen
„...whom they call soldurii, the conditions of whose companionship are that they share all the conveniences of life with those to whose friendship they have devoted themselves and if anything violent happen to them, either they endure the same destiny together, or commit suicide: up to now, in the memory of men, there has never been found anyone who refused to die, upon the death of one to whose friendship he had so devoted himself,..“ – Caesar about gaulish Soldurii
„They transact no public or private business without being armed. it is not, however, usual for anyone to wear arms till the state has recognized his power to use them. Then in the presence of the council one of the chiefs, or the young man's father, or some kinsman, equips him with a shield and a spear. These arms are what the "toga" is with us, the first honour with which youth is invested. Up to this time he is regarded as a member of a household, after-wards as a member of the commonwealth. Very noble birth or great services rendered by the father secure for lads the rank of a chief; such lads attach themselves to men of mature strength and of long approved valour. It is no shame to be seen among a chief's followers. Even in his escort there are gradations of rank, dependent on the choice of the man to whom they are attached. These followers vie keenly with each others as to who shall rank first with his chiefs, the chiefs as to who shall have the most numerous and the bravest followers. It is an honour as well as a source of strength to be thus always surrounded by a large body of picked youths; it is an ornament in peace and a defence in war. And not only in his own tribe but also in the neighboring states it is the renown and glory of a chief to be distinguished for the number and valour of his followers, for such a man is courted by embassies, is honoured with presents, and the very prestige of his name ofen settles a war.“ - Tacitus
As Tacitus refers here the Germanics had a very Warlike Aritocrathy, those „Fellows“ (Comitati in Latin) where rich Landowners and/or People who have been regarded for their Noble behaviour. The Soldurii and the Comitati were identical, expecially in Belgicae and Raetia were Germanics and Gauls lived together the romans didn’t make any diffrence between them. Aslike Knights have been in the Middleages, also Comitati within the germanics had one problem: Their personal thirst for Honor and „Glamour“.
That means -> It wasn’t enough to have a sword, it must have been a beautiful and good sword. It wasn’t enough to have a Helmet, it must be a decorated Helmet
As Tacitus said: „These arms are what the "toga" is with us, the first honour with which youth is invested.“. Their Weapons and Armor had become a Symbol for their Aristocrathic-Status, expecially their Swords and the animal-shaped Helmets (see Pictures).
I combined all neccessary Details to one Picture:
Much stronger as on the previous Pictures (Drawings from a history-Book, and two aritifacts) this Picture provides a good Image of a single Comitatus. Wearing a beautiful Shirt with Ornaments, a decorated Helmet (Horsehead in this Case), a Cloak, Armor, Belts with golden Clasps, a Woolthrowser with Letherstrings (see his Knee), a good sword and a Rune-decorated Shield. A very helpful Case is that the Helmet for the Character Theoden in the Movie „Lord of the Rings“ was designed after the Image of the germanic’s Animal-Helmet, the two Pictures below show this Helmet and contain an Hyperlink to larger Images on the Internet. The Movie’s Helmet can be seen as an example, the Design for RTW’s own Comitati-Helmet would look best by beeing similar to this one.
As you’ll certainly have recognised on the Pictures the Comitati were no pure Swordsmen, identical to Knights or Samurai they fought in various organisation Types. Through there’s no place for them all they must be seperated to their main groups: Spearmen, Swordsmen and Cavallary. Making a Comitati Cavallary wasn’t sensible for Gameplay, through the germanics already have the Gastiz as their heavy Cavallary.
So I would suggest to make two Units: Comitati Lancemen and Comitati Swordsmen. While the Lancemen should be displayed as an improoved Version of the „normal“ Lancemen, with Comitati-charcteristics (similar to armored Spearmen compared to normal Spearmen in Viking Inavasions). The Swordsmen on the other Side are needed to form a counterpart against the roman Legionaires, so they need to be an Elite of Warriors.
Abilities (Spearmen)
Armored
Good Defense
Good Morale
Good Melee
Large Shield
Bonus against Cavallary
Abilities (Swordsmen)
Armored
Good Charge
Good Defense
Perfect Morale
Perfect Melee
Shield
Gastiz Cavallary
Somehow many Comitati followed „invitations“ of Warlords to fight for a reward and became Mercenaries. Called „Gastiz“, which ment Guest these Men spend most of their Lifetime in Warfare. The many succsessful Battles brought them a high social status and wellfare, resulting that they formed the most expensive but also most efficent germanic Trooptype. In the Society they were seen as the perfected Comitati, sacrificing their whole life in Combat after Tiwaz’s Prayers (In negative Effect this made them very arrogant and difficult to command). The Romans recognised the Power of the Gastiz and „invited“ them byself many times: Jules Caesar hired these Cavallary to fight in Alesia and the famous Arminius was the commander of Gastiz in roman Service. This caused that they used strongly romanised Arms and Armor, diffrently to the two lower Comitati Types.
They need no further discription, through they chare most Charcteristics with the two other Comitati types.
Abilities
Armored
Perfect Charge
Good Defense
Perfect Morale
Good Melee
Uncontrolled
For the case of the Units already created, I can confirm Barbarian Archers, Barbarian Axemen and Barbarian Cavallary for beeing Historic in sight of the Germanics. Those Units should be kept in.
-----------
The Report lacks all of it pictures which are necessary... Who wants to have the original Word-Document may please send me an Email...
What are your thoughts about that now? I think that army can defeat the romans in RTW, won't it?
That's fine Stefan,Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I sent you a PM a long time ago about this, i think a month maybe more. But you never replied or answered my question so i asumed you didn't want/need my help. oh well, i guess i'll go back to lurking in the shadows. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
btw nice info http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif
So can we* actually LIST the factions we* have done so far?
Stefan --> Germanic
we = working staff - me
Sorry Buddy, Hopefully you think well of that Things here... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Some Extra-Info: Friedrich Giesler misunderstood the "Centeni" as some Kind of Unit, indeed it's an organisations Type. Every Region of Germania had to provide hundred young Men for a compulsed Militery Service, of course having served in the Army was seen as a great Honor.
There could be an exclusive Building called "Hundredman Eldary" produceing +2 Honor to reflect that System, or an historic Event if RTW still favors that Feature from MTW.
As far as for Geography of the Germanics, I must also against blame CA: Germanics arn't Germans Todays or 19th Century Borders of Germany and Austria-Hungary don't reflect the Germanic Territory. I'll make have to make a new Map...
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Well The_Emperor & frogbeastegg - Doing Celtic Britons.
I think we have exhausted ourselves after posting so many facts first time around (but lately I have been remarkably busy).
Should anyone else have any useful information on the Britons that hasn't been covered already ont he previous pages of this thread please feel free to post it.
Shall we summarise and draw up possible unit types then?
Germanic --> Stefan
Celtic Britons --> The_Emperor & frogbeastegg
I am asking this because I will work on the untouched factions.
me = too busy with school to do research, so watching and encouraging from lawn chair...
Hello all I wish to join your cause If you have no objections I will add the sig to mine in an attempt to get others to change their views Tell me anything if you need help...
Consul
we'd love to have any help we can get probably the best thing you can do is just to wear the bannner in your sig to show CA the following we have...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Hi friends http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
Well this is a GREAT project but one question:
why lobbby the autheticity of one culture and not the others ?
Are you referring to the name? Europa Barbarorum or rather Europe of the Barbarians?
Well, I think we are a bit scared of a concentration upon the Roman and to a lesser degree Hellenistic (read: Successor) kingdoms, leaving the other cultures innacurately depicted. This includes Parthians, ESPECIALLY Egyptians, and all the more northernly peoples such as Germanics, Dacians and Celts.
~Wiz
I have just finished reading the last of my 'useful' books, from that you may guess how much useful info I found - none. Aside from the tiny bit I posted ages ago most of these books either had information that was blatant rubbish (woad really does make you invincible) or gave no sources/quoted no evidence so it can't be considered reliable. The few bits that did have good evidence are of no worth without the appropriate pictures to back them up. All in all, Gah Quite what I can do now I don't know, rummage about the net I suppose.
First of the new barbarian unit descriptions is up, any improvement over the old ones? Germanic tribes are not something I know much about, aside from the topknot hairdo, which is present on the new model.
Is the position for Parthians still open?
If so, I'll happily do that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
~Wiz
Is there anything that I can do to help? Just give me something to do...and I will do it for our cause...
alright here is the list of people doing what:
The groups so far:
Who will do the Celtic Briton research?
The_Emperor
Big King Sanctaphrax
frogbeastegg
Who will do the Celtic Gaul research?
PSHYCO
Nowake
Who will do the Germanic research?
Stefan the Berserker
Monk
Who will do the Dacian research?
Revenant69
Nowake
Who will do the Celti-Iberian research?
Parmenio
Aymar de Bois Mauri
Game accuracy information:
Cebei
Teutonic Knight
I'm sure we can see if we can set up other areas of research...
as you can see above, we are researching not one, but more than several cultures...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Parthians are not Roman, so hence they are "barbarian", if we use the Greek term. Or even the Persian term, who saw Greeks as barbarian.
~Wiz