Hmm, I'm busting up the Romans a bit too easily in Dathmod, they dont seem to be building enough ships, I've got them completely blockaded and have drowned about 10k of their troops. Are there mods with better naval AI?
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Hmm, I'm busting up the Romans a bit too easily in Dathmod, they dont seem to be building enough ships, I've got them completely blockaded and have drowned about 10k of their troops. Are there mods with better naval AI?
I think, before this topic slips into the ancient threads, I shoudl put in my two denarii.
Myself and my brother played this game for a long time, awed and amazed by many things. There were those things which were annoying as well. The City Gates were irrevocably the highest on the list. The whole city would be the prime spot but the gates, being the focal point of the citys defenses, were the true abrasive.
I recall one time when I had a set of 3 units of hoplites which were attempting to keep the romans from entering their city walls through the gates. At one point I had a unit of skirmishers sent out to harrass the Romans as they approached and then decided that I would later retreat them into the city before they came too close to close the gates. Easy? Well of course not! Hahaha. They would do their wonderful "Single-File-Exit" and "Meander-about-scratching-themselves" along with only 5 of them throwing any kind of weapon towards the enemy. I was satisfied with having this annoyance go slightly unnoticed and decided that any kind strategy wasn't about to be allowed until the walls were breached. So I clicked to have the skirmishers return behind the walls. ... so they walk... Soon, the Romans decided that my skirmishers were in some way mentally retarded and charged at them. Frantically I was clickclickcliclicklicklicklickliclkick "GET BACK BEHIND THE WALLS!"clickclickclick. To no avail. The Romans caught my handicapped skirmishers in the gates (they had yet to move 10 feet) and the city was lost.
These examples are found in abundance in about any time you try to move a unit of soldiers through any portion or terrain which dictates that the unit must "Individualize". It's this system that hinders the ability to really move the units about the city and through walls and gates with and form of fluidity or pleasure at troop movements.
In the end, troop movements are an annoyance because of the lack of the engine's ability to "flow" the soldiers over terrain and obsticals therein.
Yeah skirmishers are the worst offenders. You cannot get skirmishers through gates/holes in skirmish mode when defenders still remain. I only once saw skirmishers retreat out the hole they entered in time, and that was only due to the fact the chasing unit was hoplites in formation.
The problem is, you sort of have to get skirmishers in unless you have tons of heavy infantry to throw in. Slingers, once in, can harrass slow moving troops around the city giving you time to get the rest of your units in. No point tryng to get cav through when hoplites block every entrance.
The worst situation is to be seiging when the defenders have good archers (foresters, pharaohs). You have to attract their attention, and the most cost effective way is to send skirmishers in ; in loose formation. Otherwise they will takeout the battering rams and decimate your infantry.
Installed RTR and I'm glad I did. Darthmod was cool but lacked something, I don't know what. I think realism has gone the whole hog as far as making the game into something it should be. Good on you guys.
Anyway enough on mods before some well meaning 'mod'-erator moves it.
BTW I got a funny gate story this time with a fort playing with darthmod (don't think it had anything to do with the mod).
I seiged the fort which had a unit of principles and generals cav. I surrounded it with archers and shot the **** out of them. I then battered down the fence with elephants. Meanwhile there one unit of slinger re-enforcements came towards the fort. My cav got them, however when I reached the centre there was a continue button so I clicked it. I realised one of the slingers had got as far as a side gate and was stuck there, still running. I tried to get him with archers but I couldn't hit him, I got the invisible arrow bug where it seems like its firing and makes the sound but no arrow animation. I tried fire arrows but still no arrows. So in the end I had to wheel a battering ram round and batter the gate down, and then the lone slinger ran into the fort straight into the waiting arms of sacred band spearmen.
Poor sod.
~D
I just ordered BI with its GRAAL knight and priests. Please god let the RTR modders get on to it asap.
Yesterday I had a funny bridge battle. I was besieging Vienna (DarthMod 5.8), and my army (Carthagian, by the way) was positioned on the bridge. The romans, usually cowards when it comes to field battles, attacked with a relief "army" of two Principes units - against four Sacred Band, two Scutarii and medium spears each, three Balearic slingers and two armoured archers. Add a general, and the army´s complete.
Of course, the forces in the city sallied forth to support their suicidal comrades. Not that they could have stood a chance, as they had to cross the bridge, but that´s beside the point. Now, the two Principes attacked, or rather tried to. As a matter of fact, they routed before they even reached my end of the bridge. Why routing units try to flee right through my lines is something of a riddle to me, but then again, if I kill them today I don´t have to face them tomorrow and if they decide to conveniently let themselves skewer on my pikes, who am I to protest?
It took quite a while, but finally the reinforcements frm the city arrived, entered the bridge and...stopped. In the middle of the bridge. Not going anywhere. My ranged units were depleted, so they didn´t kill all that many of the second force and I wasn´t so stupid as to send my units onto the bridge. So, I just turned the timer to maximum speed and waited for the battle to end. :dizzy2:
I've noticed that in BI, when you have a bridge battle with re-enforcements, that they come from the rear of the opposing army. Usually the enemy start to attack across the bridge and then when your re-enforcements appear they split their forces. When this happens I charge my initial units and crush the initial attack and slam into the rear of the turned troops. The quicker you can make your two armies meet the better.
I don't know if the gate and bridge problems have been fixed as I haven't taken a walled city yet, being on the backfoot at the start of the game.
The armies enter the battlefield corresponding to their position on the campaign map. If you surrounded an army on the bridge, then reinforcements would come from behind the enemy.
So they did in plain Rome - which is very useful or outright deadly, depending on who´s the one that gets the reinforcements in the opponent´s back, you or the AI.
Or are you saying, Rebelscum, that in BI reinforcements always appear in the back of the enemy, regardless of their position on the campaignmap?
Aha, thats for me to know and you to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
~D Actually come to think of it, both times I brought troops out of other cities to attack. So they did approach from behind, I think.
But lets say you approach from thr left or right, what side of the river is that.
The obvious answer would bethe side of the river they are on on the battlemap, but that is perhaps not to great to say without having tested it. But I do believe that is how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelscum
Gates are fixed to some extent, at least regarding spies. We all remember how we hated that the spy didn't do much for us in stonewalled cities, and that the spy was downright deadly to the AI when it attacked.
Not so anymore. Not only is the oil killed by the spy now, the AI actually goes for something else than the gate itself. That can be a nasty shock.
:bow:
That's good to hear, although I wonder how the spy knocked out the oil.
If I had a city I would make sure I had spy proof gates. If the pathfinding through gates is fixed I'm more than happy.
Whether a spy knocks out the oil should be based on competency or other such traits, right?
Your guess is as good as mine, I will have to try different spys to see if the percentage chance to open the gate is based on the spy's competancy.
Well, think about it this way. The spy can beat open those huge gates (think Epic Walls here), yet he can't figure out how to put out the fire underneath the oil and spill it. The spy is a spy, but in each city he recruits people who are willing to help his cause (an oft used way of winning over cities in antiquity), they are the ones that open the gates and kill the oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garvanko
It is more believeable to me when the oil is out than if it is not.
Ah, a spy network, the plot thickens. Sounds plausable enough.
Well BI still hasn't fixed the problem with units getting confused around walls. Last night I sieged a large city. Part of the left hand wall (left generals view) had crumbled and had fallen inside the city. The unit I sent to capture the gate (goth swordsmen) got stuck leaving the gate tower and started milling around the building closest to the door when a rebel spear unit came around the corner. I clicked to attack it. However I got no response from the unit except to mill around the fallen rocks. I even tried to line them up in front of the rocks but they ignored me.
The spear unit routed them pretty much straight away.
I really don't know why this still happens.
Another thing, in BI seige towers tend to get destroyed much more easily than before. Now I have to place the siege tower a few walls down from the gatehouse.
This is one of the best threads I've ever seen lol!
I've added BUG-Fixer thanks player1 for your efforts. I hope CA are on to the engine fixes required.
Here's my 2 Denarii worth too :)
Wooden Gates and barbarians behind them are tough!!!
I had a problem the other day early in a Brutii campaign ( using 1.3 rtw) trying to take Patavium. I had a basic army with no character general trying to storm their Gaul gates and after 10 mins of firing from velites and balista, after destroying gate, and putting another hole in the wall to flank them, they were relatively unscathed...
There were three units of Gaul infantry and a general's unit sitting around behind the wall and my 12 unit army got owned lol.
And this is why...
Even at the gates , destroyed and open, Velites are not very good at inflicting casualties through a wooden wall gate, with the war band sitting riiiight there!. Or behind the walls / left or right of gate... This is very funny, because taking the great walls of Macedon they are very effective at taking out hoplites etc along the top of the wall...'?'!
Anyway my skirmishers ran out of ammo so I went and engaged in hand to hand, supported by cavalry and hastati, as the gauls wouldn't budge (rightly so too), with a warband and swordsmen, and the general running around town sight seeing until his glorious moment ... at the gate. I took many casualties. You know it was kind of like, 'Geez ... I want to hurry this up I outnumber them... I'll just rush 'em ' sort of thing...
The swordsmen seemed impervious, especially after the Gaul General gave my troops a good kicking. I routed left, right and centre. Also due to the swordsmen having decided after they had been covering the other hole in the wall and very tired of playing catch with balistae bolts they'd come back and scare the skirmishers and hastati a bit more.
My troops rallied, as they do when they can't see the swords etc at a distance... went into the fray again, as the Gauls were cut up a bit, and thought I'd out flank them again and... lost my basic army :O
Anyway, I was quite shocked that the AI kicked my arse so hard with so few units. And I felt it was because taking 'Wooden Wall' gates is actually more difficult than large walls with regard to missile fire from basic troops.
I'm beginning to think that missile troops can fire when normally they can't if spotted by another unit? No parapets (I think their called?) along wooden walls. But I haven't seen much mention of this around the forums.
And yeah, I lurrrvvv how troops walk through gates and not run/charge at a certain point at gate. Hilarious and yet frustrating...
Great thread by the way :) ~:cheers:
A couple of firsts today. I was besieged by the franks the horse numbered well over 4k troops, they completely surrounded me. They built one seige tower a ram and two saps. As usual the seige tower and the ram approached, however with BI both the seige tower and the ram are torchwood and went up in flames before they reached the walls. The franks then sent the spear unit that was pushing the ram 'all' the way around the walls to the saps at the second gate, I was frantically shooting at the closest sap but it wouldnt ignite, however they marched straight past it and were shot to death by the gate towers before they got to the next. The franks then left the field of battle. I'm sure they had units that could sap left and they had more than enough units to have crushed me if they had sapped the walls, can frank horde spears sap? In the next few turns I had enough units to trounce them in the open and their leaders were sent scurrying back into WRE territory.
The huns besieged a city where all I had was one goth raider unit, a warlord and some slave spearmen, I thought I'd had it until I saw their stack, 9 herdmen units and one spear unit consisting of 60 men (lol). They built one seige tower and proceeded to attack with obvious results. Why did they bother!
Next the ERE sieged a city, I thought I was safe during deployment until I realized the gates were spy breached. I frantically stopped the rush from them with my warlord and some swordsmen until I got more swords down.
It was a close battle for the gate but I held it. They had a couple of units of heavy infantry who I thought would cause me some problems, but they just sat in the rear doing nothing. They also sent a spear unit to a sap just next to the gate even though the gates were open. They didn't have enough units to complete the sap and when they emerged they were destroyed.
If they had sent all their units in with the rush they might have got me.
So three completely unsuccessful attempts to take my cities by the AI. Whilst I easily took a city filled to the brim by WRE peasants getting all three towers to the walls and mashing them up with my silver shield swordsmen.
The conclusion to all this is that the AI has no idea how to take a walled city unless it has vast amounts of units and a spy can open the gates.
:duel:
I'm now playing MTW2 :)
Hello Rebelscum,
It's good to hear from you again. I always did enjoy your funny way of telling a story.
Yup, I avoid sending in an army through breeches or a gate. If there's time, I always prefer about a dozen or so siege towers, sometimes more.
As for defending, try this. When I am up to it (sufficient troops combining missile, infantry and cavalry), it never has failed me.
Archers on the walls,
cavalry "grouped", half at the left gate and half at the right.
That will usually make your ungrouped infantry unit cards look something like this. (keep them ungrouped)
I-1 I-3 I-5 I-7
I-2 I-4 I-6 I-8
Choose gate, be it side if you want to march them around, or front if you want to hold them at the gate or march them out under arrow cover.
_________________________ __________________
_________________________gate__________________
I-1 I-2 I-3 I-4 I-5 and so forth. Leave a unit size of space between each unit.
First gallop your cavalry out, but not far, just a distance of what would look like a couple of hundred yards straight outside the gate. They will form there while your archers shoot arrows and you send out your skirmishers. Then, when your cavalry is outside the walls and forming up, you can easily move your infantry into position.
When you want to march them out, send them one at a time, in order of lineup, to a designated location. Simply take top left, bottom left, top second, bottom second and so forth. Allow about 10 seconds between commanding each unit to march. Once they are all in motion, they will actually resemble a snake moving along the inside perimeter of your walls and out to the field. If you watch where you send each to, they may even march to the checkerboard Acer Triplex formation. Once they are out of the walls, and if you did it at the left or right gate, they can already be in formation and unmolested. Then go ahead and group them if you wish, and march them on around the walls. If however, you send them straight out the front gate, they may be heavily engaged before you are ready, but on the positive, your archers and slingers will have good hunting.
It took me two years to figure out how to solve that simple problem, but had it mastered within 2 battles. They all move out in an orderly manner, without tripping over each other, and into some workable formation. If the enemy wisely avoids the archers, you can still march them out behind the infantry and put them to work that way.
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Greetings Folks,
The diagram on the screen does not quite match the one I created on the screen.
The main thing I was trying to get across which didn't seem to go on right is this.
Put I-1 right at the gate. Then leave the space that one unit would occupy, and put I-2 there. Same with all the others. It may be parallel to the wall. It may wrap around a street corner and toward the town square. What's important is they are arranged in order of their position to the gate, and can all be marching without tripping over one another.
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Oh,that´s good, do you have anything to share on that one yet? Like your Diary of a Diplomat :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelscum
Well I was thinking of another skit called, "The Idle Inquisitor".
Just thinking up some plotlines and trying to find time from my programming job :(
"The idle Inquisitor", now that sounds promising :2thumbsup:
Sorry haven't got round to it yet, I tried adding it to my project tasks at work but my boss caught on.:oops: