Re: Alexander realism....
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Originally Posted by Legionario
:-) yes Alexander was a great general,but a great general with only a bunch of peasants ,as you say, would not go anywhere....now can you show me pictures of actully those period Macedonian soldiers?
What about Atilla. He drove a bunch wild horsemen of the steppes to the heart of Europe. That would NOT have hapened without his leadership. Granted, he wasn't really a strategist, but then again he didn't need to be. And you see where Im going with this?
Macedonia's army was already drilled and well-experienced before Alexander even became King. Without his vision and talent though, nothing would have hapened.
So you see just because they were experienced and perfectly drilled by Phillip doesn't make them any more then what they were... goat-hearders and peasants.
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again here,are you so sure about that? I have readings wich say they did...in some situations,against Pyrrus they were stripped of pilae and swords and were given long spears...you know sometimes it can happen... ~:cheers:
adapt to the battlefield...that's how it is called.... ~;)
and please be a little bit cooler with your comments,we are not tryin' to make a war between who likes it and who dislikes it,just thoughts.... ~:cool:
OK?
Pilae are not long spears. So I don't follow... sorry.
Re: Alexander realism....
Hey guys, if you complain about Stone's Alexander, read here about how the movie could've looked like:
http://members.aol.com/shockcin/alex.html
;)
Re: Alexander realism....
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Originally Posted by Byzantine_Prince
Also let's not forget the masters Stanley Kubrick, Quintin Tarantino, Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorcese and Brian dePalma. All Hollywood fimmakers.
Sorry, but you're mistaken. Stanley Kubrick wasn't a Hollywood filmmaker. He was born in America but he made all his great works in England (many at Pinewood Studios) were he lived most of his life.
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Originally Posted by Byzantine_Prince
That's not to say there's no more but those are the most recognizable. It's not Hollywood that's the problem, it's the idiotic majority Amercan public who don't know crap about good cinema. Oh and let's not forget the idiotis European public. Europeans eat up bad movies as well.
You're correct up to a point. There are however additional problems. Hollywood producers are responsible to steer films in a particular direction, namelly in to politically correct or brainless films. The projection of their films "educates" the population, like it or not. The problem is not the really great directors. They usually make interesting films because they have the power to impose their vision, but those common directors that sell themselves, as a way to get public notoriety, making crap films that are just fireworks without substance. The anything-for-money approach.
Re: Alexander realism....
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Originally Posted by eadingas
Dude. I have this. ~D It is sooooo bad. Even the best copies today have lost all their coloring. But Shatner is Shatner, so it's interesting.
Re: Alexander realism....
Aymar you got it quite right about this
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There are however additional problems. Hollywood producers are responsible to steer films in a particular direction, namelly in to politically correct or brainless films. The projection of their films "educates" the population, like it or not. The problem is not the really great directors. They usually make interesting films because they have the power to impose their vision, but those common directors that sell themselves, as a way to get public notoriety, making crap films that are just fireworks without substance. The anything-for-money approach.
Usually people don't like to admit this....
that's why I was so disappointed after Troy,at least Petersen is not a Rookie, so it should had a major hold on the script..... :embarassed:
For Byz...
as I told you a general,never mind how good he is, don't make for a useless army,also it's important who your enemies are.....so please look more carefull at history and battles,and you'll know why Alex and Attila got where they went....(Persian army at Gaugamela was a shamble of useless people,and Darius played it completely wrong) Attila never been confronted by an organised drilled army, and when it happened ..he lost..... ~:)
look at what you say here:
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So you see just because they were experienced and perfectly drilled by Phillip doesn't make them any more then what they were... goat-hearders and peasants.
so they were "experienced and perfectly drilled by Philip" this make them VERY GOOD SOLDIERS in my opinion....it's your words.....
then
"any more then what they were... goat-hearders and peasants"...well Republican Roman Army before Marius,was recruited year by year,for when they were needed,they were mainly "farmers"..that means they were any good? So all the historians depicting them as the best organized army ever, are all that dumb? ~:)
if you don't understand this...no point in carrying it on... ~;)
enough.... ~:cheers:
Re: Alexander realism....
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Sorry, but you're mistaken. Stanley Kubrick wasn't a Hollywood filmmaker. He was born in America but he made all his great works in England (many at Pinewood Studios) were he lived most of his life.
All of Kubrick's famous films are made by Warner Brothers, and I have the DVDs to prove it. So Im a fraid you're mistaken.
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Hollywood producers are responsible to steer films in a particular direction, namelly in to politically correct or brainless films.
They do that because they make more money that way. When a movie has controversy it becomes too risky. So you see the people are to blame for not taking shances. How else do you explain Meet the Fockers making over 200 million dollars? It's the mainstream that's to blame.
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so they were "experienced and perfectly drilled by Philip" this make them VERY GOOD SOLDIERS in my opinion....it's your words.....
then
"any more then what they were... goat-hearders and peasants"...well Republican Roman Army before Marius,was recruited year by year,for when they were needed,they were mainly "farmers"..that means they were any good? So all the historians depicting them as the best organized army ever, are all that dumb?
The problem I have with what you said is that you said they didn't look like great soldiers in the film. They looked like peasants because that's what they were. How else are they gonna look different? Were you expecting them to get color specific suits or something? Only few of them were well equiped and were the ones that were soldiers all the times.
No historians are not dumb, lol. Historians say they are the best organized army ever because they were so well drilled not because they looked cool as you want them to.
Re: Alexander realism....
For the Alexander movie I have to say only that the side to blame about this insult to the Hellenic heritage, is the modern Hellenic state and the people of Hellas who voted them...
Oliver Stone met E.Venizelos the culture minister and asked him to fund the movie, he of course denied because his (E.Venizeloses) mission (as the mission of all the administrations of the last 20 years) is to erase the Hellenic identity and neglect the cultural spirit of the people of modern Hellas...
So mr Stone went to the well known funders in Hollywood who spat on Alexanders memory and achieved the total humiliation of the ancient strategist in the eyes of the whole globe...
I just wonder whether ANYONE in Hollywood would dare to make a movie about Abraham whith the REAL story of incest and pimping his own sister/wife...
The case of the movie the Passion of Christ shows who has the power on this planet and whos not...
Hellenes
Re: Alexander realism....
You still on about it?
What was the humiliation exactly? How did the fact that Alexander kissed a guy on a banquet make him a lesser leader and conqueror? There is nothing in the movies that is not in the historical sources, and you know it. The relationship with Hephaistion is only slightly hinted at, no more than in the sources, and the kiss with Bagoas scene is straight from Plutarch.
The only thing that gets humiliated by this movie is puritanism, hypocrisy and homophobia of some of the viewers in the eyes of more civilized parts of the globe.
Re: Alexander realism....
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Originally Posted by hellenes
For the Alexander movie I have to say only that the side to blame about this insult to the Hellenic heritage, is the modern Hellenic state and the people of Hellas who voted them...
Oliver Stone met E.Venizelos the culture minister and asked him to fund the movie, he of course denied because his (E.Venizeloses) mission (as the mission of all the administrations of the last 20 years) is to erase the Hellenic identity and neglect the cultural spirit of the people of modern Hellas...
So mr Stone went to the well known funders in Hollywood who spat on Alexanders memory and achieved the total humiliation of the ancient strategist in the eyes of the whole globe...
I just wonder whether ANYONE in Hollywood would dare to make a movie about Abraham whith the REAL story of incest and pimping his own sister/wife...
The case of the movie the Passion of Christ shows who has the power on this planet and whos not...
Hellenes
Youre right about that. Its true. They said to Stone that they cannot afford to fund him but i guess they can afford to fund their own pockets. And also be sure that it cant be such a movie as you said for Abraham cause it would hurt the religious ideas of the people who actually fund the movie industry. Mel Gibson tried to make an accurate film of the period (the only he forgot is that people back then spoke aramaic and greek not lso much latin) and they tried to eat him alive! Its cool to screw everybodies history(not only greek) but not theirs. I believe that in future movies, games and other multimedia stuff will be able to redefine and even rewrite history. Thats why i think that its very important the effort for this mod to be done as close to the facts as possible.
Re: Alexander realism....
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Originally Posted by eadingas
You still on about it?
What was the humiliation exactly? How did the fact that Alexander kissed a guy on a banquet make him a lesser leader and conqueror? There is nothing in the movies that is not in the historical sources, and you know it. The relationship with Hephaistion is only slightly hinted at, no more than in the sources, and the kiss with Bagoas scene is straight from Plutarch.
The only thing that gets humiliated by this movie is puritanism, hypocrisy and homophobia of some of the viewers in the eyes of more civilized parts of the globe.
You mean that the fact that Alexander and Hephaistion look each other like lovebirds isnt strong enough as picture as an erotic scene? Yeah great Stone didnt said it he implied it... Thats the same for me. Its not about homophobia puritanism and bla bla bla its about truth. About what it is and what its not. What you expected? Alexander in red dress swinging his purse and shout '' hey boyyysssssss...''?
Re: Alexander realism....
Ok, this forum is not an area where people should be allowed to air their personal grievances against people of sexual orientation, gender, race, or nationality. If you don't want such discussions locked in the future, try talking about them dispassionately. Kindly stay away from bigoted bullshit. Thanks.
