Palestinian TV carries 'blatant anti-Semitic and Holocaust-denying' broadcast

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Originally Posted by Fragony

No need to be polite, I got my facts screwed up. Mixing up 2 conflicts.

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Naw I normally try to be polite in honest discussions - yours was an honest discussion without making personal accusations and comments.

Now the 1967 war was indeed a lot different and can be viewed as an act of Israeli agression - especially against Egypt. Not so sure about the other particpants however.

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Now the 1967 war was indeed a lot different and can be viewed as an act of Israeli agression - especially against Egypt. Not so sure about the other particpants however.

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The key words here being ' Can Be Viewed' ~:)

Now the 1967 war was indeed a lot different and can be viewed as an act of Israeli agression
What about the war of '56 , was that also an act of agression by the Israelis ~;)

The key words here being ' Can Be Viewed'
If you attack someone you are the aggressor , or is there another way to interpret it ?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Now the 1967 war was indeed a lot different and can be viewed as an act of Israeli agression
What about the war of '56 , was that also an act of agression by the Israelis ~;)

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the '56 war would require me to do some quick research - since I do not know much about that one.

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The key words here being ' Can Be Viewed'
If you attack someone you are the aggressor , or is there another way to interpret it ?

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I say can be because Israel attacked Egypt which was massing in the Eygptian terrority that bordered Israel - Israel decided to attack the massed Egyptian forces before they attacked Israel. Why the Egyptian troops were there in the first place is open to one's opinion - my belief is that they were massing to attack into Israel.

Then one must review and evaluate the actions of other nations that were involved in the conflict. For instance Jordan shelled Israel - after Israel attacked Egypt. Was this an act of aggression by Jordan - or were they aiding their ally Egypt against Israel. If one believes Egypt was massing forces along the Egyptian-Israel border for an attack - one can conclude a different opinion then the person who believes Egypt's massing of forces along the border was nothing but a show of force.

However since I am now at work - I will have to refrain from futher historical research to reach the actual truth of what happened.

However ask yourself this question and answer it honestly.

Why does one nation mass military might along the border of another nation?

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Originally Posted by Redleg

However ask yourself this question and answer it honestly.

Why does one nation mass military might along the border of another nation?

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Preparation for an attack?
As a threat?
Showing the neighbor how many tanks and men you can bring up?

One should at least follow tradition when starting wars. Send a few men over the border to shoot at friendly positions from the other side, then attack as an answer to this unprovoked enemy aggression. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Spetulhu

Preparation for an attack?
As a threat?
Showing the neighbor how many tanks and men you can bring up?

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Quite common during the cold war...
Russia deployed heaps of tanks and stuff at the Norwegian border on a few occations.

Anyway, Egypt marched up to Israel and said "do you feel lucky". '
Israel decided they felt lucky, and of course they were.
After all their tribal deity had said stuff about such situations.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

Hey this is fun! :balloon2: I never knew racism could be so enjoyable. ~:cheers:

Who's next... Germans are all Nazi scum. Frenchmen are unwashed cowards. Italians are all mafia killers.

Wow, this is addictive. Hmmm, who can I hate next? Any suggestions?

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You forgot the :furious3: Canadian tree-huggers! ~;)
And the bloodthirsty sea-mammal killing Norwegians...

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Hey this is fun! I never knew racism could be so enjoyable.

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No group of people are or were barbaric. Some groups had more people worse than others, but no group of people ever was entirely "barbaric" whatever that means.

And it's sad that in order to fight steryotypes and racism, people resort to stereotypes and racism...

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Exactly how was anything I said racist? Of course you wouldn't be playing the race card to divert attention from the truth now would you? Well that does sound awfully like what the palestinians have been doing so I suppose i cant put it above their apologists. .

Now then - to the truth.

Over the course of human history there have been groups of people far, FAR more oppressed than the palestinians, if you even want to call rejecting peace and a nation of their own being "oppressed". ~:rolleyes:

No other group that I know of has responded to their misfortune in such a horrible, despicable way as the palestinians.

What is human about sending your own child to die? I cannot even comprehend how a human being could be so completely evil as to that. Now i try not to use evil much because its been so over used, but i cant think of a better word to describe the palestinians who do this and the society they live in that accepts, rewards, and continues this process.

I've said it once and ill say it again: Sending your child to blow herself up while blowing other children up after first making a video to encourage other children to do the same is so cowardly and so disgusting i have a hard time classifying such people as human beings.

And what makes this not just an individual evil is the society that supports it. Everyone is out on the streets celebrating the death of another child.. its horrible. It may be just 10% who actually would send their child to die but the other 90% are out on the street glorifying the action.

Now of course the Israelis haven't been as good the palestinians as they should have(although they did give away their own state at camp david), but there have been so many other people in such worse conditions that didn't turn to acts of inhumanity regarding their own children.

That is why I said what im apparently not allowed to say anymore. Race has no part in it and i dont appreciate you trying to use such a shallow debate tool.

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# Israel did indeed simultaneously attack Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq on June 5, 1967. It had little choice. For weeks leading up to that day, Israel's Arab enemies upped the temperature by amassing troops on the borders of the tiny Jewish state, while threatening murder and mayhem. Consider the following:

May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula. The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action.

May 15: Three Egyptian army divisions and 600 tanks roll into the Sinai. World community does nothing.

May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."

May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."

May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war. (US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")

May 20: Syria's defence minister (now president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."

May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."

May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.

My 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."

May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."

June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.

June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.

June 10: Israel and its enemies accepted UN Security Council cease-fire demands. The war ended, leaving Israel in control of the Sinai peninsula, eastern Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, Judea-Samaria and the Gaza Strip. (The Sinai was returned to Egypt between 1978 and 1982, as part of an Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty.)

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"Never in human history can an aggressor have made his purpose known in advance so clearly and so widely. Certain of victory, both the Arab leaders and their peoples threw off all restraint. Between the middle of May and fifth of June, world-wide newspapers, radio and, most incisively, television brought home to millions of people the threat of politicide bandied about with relish by the leaders of these modern states. Even more blatant was the exhilaration which the Arabic peoples displayed as the prospect of executing genocide on the people of Israel ... In those three weeks of mounting tension people throughout the world watched and waited in growing anxiety--or in some cases, in hopeful expectation--for the overwhelming forces of at least Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq to bear down from three sides to crush tiny Israel and slaughter her people."

- Samuel Katz, Battleground: Fact and fantasy in Palestine

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Its not as simple as some would have you believe.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

It may be just 10% who actually would send their child to die but the other 90% are out on the street glorifying the action.

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I wonder were you pull these "statistics" from... ~:confused:

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I wonder were you pull these "statistics" from...

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His behind.

Ser Clegane, mein fuhrer ~D , this discussion is getting a little of hand isn't it? I mean technically Panzer is stereotyping all Palestinians as being bloodthirsty, terrorist supporters, if I'm not mistaken.

Better watch yourself Panzer we all know of BPs anal fixation. ~:)

This kind of blatant anti-jewish sympathy and Nazi glorification is to be expected from the palastinians.. they are simply a barbaric people.

Palestines are simply a barbaric people sounds pretty racist, IMO

if you said the people who send kids out there to blow themselves up are barbaric i would agree though.

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Palestines are simply a barbaric people sounds pretty racist, IMO

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Palestinians are not a race Muhahaha ~D

Palestinians are not a race Muhahaha

ok anti-palestinian then, i just think of anti-nation sentiments like racism...

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Exactly how was anything I said racist? Of course you wouldn't be playing the race card to divert attention from the truth now would you? Well that does sound awfully like what the palestinians have been doing so I suppose i cant put it above their apologists.

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It was you, sir, who played the race card by calling an indentifiable group of people "barbaric" and "animalistic". I'm sorry if you find that uncomfortable, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

And what makes this not just an individual evil is the society that supports it. Everyone is out on the streets celebrating the death of another child.. its horrible. It may be just 10% who actually would send their child to die but the other 90% are out on the street glorifying the action.

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Are you really implying that well over 100,000 Palestinians would send their kids off with explosives strapped to them? I would love to see where you get those figures. And if they are so willing to do it, as you say, why haven't they?

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

That is why I said what im apparently not allowed to say anymore. Race has no part in it and i dont appreciate you trying to use such a shallow debate tool.

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I think it might be more meanignful if you simply admitted to making a bad statement instead of getting all huffy and defensive with those who saw it for what it was and called you on it. If someone here wrote that the Jews were "barbaric and animalistic", how would you react?

To be precise humans are a single race.

No one calls a brown horse a different race to a white horse now do they?

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

To be precise humans are a single race.

No one calls a brown horse a different race to a white horse now do they?

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That is the color of their fur, not their skin. And you call yourself a scientist?

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

That is the color of their fur, not their skin. And you call yourself a scientist?

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So a red head is a different race to a blonde?

BTW look up the scientists definition of a race...

Race is a social structure not a scientific one. That much is true.
People still use the word racist though, because it accurately describes someone who is prejuduced of others because of their ethnic background.


And yes being prejuduced against palestinians and stereotyping them IS in fact racism.

Race also has a scientific definition not just a common usage one.

The rough definition of a single race is anything that can breed fertile children. So as any two healthy adult humans of the human sex can have children regardless of skin, eye, hair colour they are in fact a single race.

Therefore, can we go to a common definition that the two "race" are two different things?

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

That is why I said what im apparently not allowed to say anymore. Race has no part in it and i dont appreciate you trying to use such a shallow debate tool.

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If I may import a quote of yours from the other Palestine/Isreal thread;

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

I have little sympathy for Israel and even less for the animals that currently co-habitate that area...

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Add this to what you wrote in this thread and I think it's we who should not appreciate you debating using such shallow language. You have established a clear pattern of attrocious and outlandish racial accusations.

Race has a part in this discussion because you have repeatedly refered to the Palestinians as animals. And you are correct that you should not be allowed to say things like this anymore.

This is why I stick up for the Palestinians, because people dehumanize them, and that makes it easier to kill them. It's sick and it's wrong.

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This is why I stick up for the Palestinians, because people dehumanize them, and that makes it easier to kill them. It's sick and it's wrong.

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The same has been done to the Jews and for a far longer period. Yet they never resorted to using their children as human bombs or hid behind women and children.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

The same has been done to the Jews and for a far longer period. Yet they never resorted to using their children as human bombs or hid behind women and children.

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Because they didn't had bomb back then?

Jews rebelled desperately again and again when they were a united people. When they were dispersed, they were too weak. Otherwise they would rebel just like the Palestinians do right now.

Oh, and they expressed their anger by creating a vengeful deity in their literature, stamping their rage of the oppression forever (or as long as Christianity and/or Judaism survives) into history.

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Because they didn't had bomb back then?

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Your kidding right? There were no bombs or explosives during the holocaust?

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Jews rebelled desperately again and again when they were a united people. When they were dispersed, they were too weak. Otherwise they would rebel just like the Palestinians do right now.

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How do you reach this startling conclusion when no other peoples in history have done this sort of thing?

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Oh, and they expressed their anger by creating a vengeful deity in their literature, stamping their rage of the oppression forever (or as long as Christianity and/or Judaism survives) into history.

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The god of christianity is anything but vengeful. How come you left out Islam?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Your kidding right? There were no bombs or explosives during the holocaust?

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Were they strong enough to even hope to rebel against the immensely powerful Nazi Germany at the time? Did they actually struggled in hope of survival through escaping means?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

How do you reach this startling conclusion when no other peoples in history have done this sort of thing?

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Many peoples rebelled when they were occupied and oppressed. No other people?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

The god of christianity is anything but vengeful. How come you left out Islam?

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By vengeful I mean no evil. Jehovah is certainly a vengeful god in my definition. Did I say he's evil, or being depicted as evil? No?

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Were they strong enough to even hope to rebel against the immensely powerful Nazi Germany at the time? Did they actually struggled in hope of survival through escaping means?

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Are the Palestinians? If so whats all the crying about? They can escape anytime they like.

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Many peoples rebelled when they were occupied and oppressed. No other people?

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Rebelled yes but strap bombs to their children no.

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Jehovah is certainly a vengeful god in my definition.

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What has that to do with christianity. I could claim that Islam and Mohamed are a relgion of war. Whats the point?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Are the Palestinians? If so whats all the crying about? They can escape anytime they like.

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Can they? The Israeli troops everywhere and the fact that the greedy Arab "oligarchies" blockaded all their escape?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Rebelled yes but strap bombs to their children no.

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Rebellion = War. War = every method you *need* to do to fight - "dirtier" methods from the safe people's point of view (ours) if needs be, if you're fighting a superior foe. And no, I'm not justifying it - it just how war goes. Everybody does that, even if there are major variations in method, action, and opinion. It isn't a "justified" thing - but justify me any war - war itself, not the sides in it.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

What has that to do with christianity. I could claim that Islam and Mohamed are a relgion of war. Whats the point?

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The point is - the Jews WERE angry at the oppressions on them, and they expressed it.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

The same has been done to the Jews and for a far longer period. Yet they never resorted to using their children as human bombs or hid behind women and children.

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My God if this isn't the cry of the wild. "They use their children to carry bombs!"

I've got another cry for you; "The Israeli army murders Palestinian children."

Mind you, that doesn't ring any bells with some people at all. I mean, after all, they're just animals aren't they?

You're Doctor Statistic, how many Palestinian children have blown themselves up? Have you got the numbers? You people make it sound like human waves of toddlers are infiltrating Israel laced with C4. How many have done it? What is the percentage? .0001%? .0000001%? How many are in the Great Uncounted Horde of Babyhood Bombers?