God hates homosexuals....and veterans

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Fair enough, LittleLostBoy. I could have reconstructed most of that from the Bible myself. I can hear half the board snigger about this thread and I must admit I find some of the things you say very hard to believe. But I am interested because you seem to have a very lively sense of the Devil's presence.

The part I can not reconstruct is that Hell is so hot that the Devil himself can not stay there for any length of time. Could you enlighten me some more?

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Most people are already sniggering at this thread's title. Well, have you read John Milton's Paradise Lost? Granted, it is not really a religious work compared to a literay work but then John Milton had a good grounding in religion and christiany studies as he was studying to become a religious cleric or priest before he became disillusioned with the Christian Church hypocrisy. The first book or chapter said that the Devil suffered from the flames of the Eternal Lake, so that means that Hell is a tad too hot for the Devil.

But Paradise Lost is a work of fiction, littlelostboy. It's one thing to take every word in the bible as gospel (scuse the pun), but Paradise Lost is just one man's story. A fantasic one, to be sure, but still.

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Originally Posted by mystic brew

But Paradise Lost is a work of fiction, littlelostboy. It's one thing to take every word in the bible as gospel (scuse the pun), but Paradise Lost is just one man's story. A fantasic one, to be sure, but still.

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Ok fair enough. But remember the Book of Job in the Bible? The story where Job, one of the richest man in the Middle East who lost everything and became inflicted with sores just because God allowed the Devil to test Job? At one part, it said that the Devil appeared before the presence of God. So it means that the Devil can leave Hell and appear before God. It does not means the Devil went to Heaven but more likely he appeared before God. There are many other evidences in the Bible that the Devil are roaming around our world and is not in Hell fully yet but I have to search for those.

But the main point of Christianty is not to argue over whether the Devil is in Hell or not. In Christianty, we are taught that the Devil is a very real presence, not to frighten us Christians but to make us more aware that temptations are always all around us and that the Devil is like a lion waiting to devour Christians. Nowadays, the Devil always appear as a cartoon or as some funny figure and so people don't really take this Devil and Hell thing very seriously. Which is why the Devil is so damn happy cause if no one believes in him, it just makes it all the easier for him to tempt people and draw them away from God.

At one part, it said that the Devil appeared before the presence of God. So it means that the Devil can leave Hell and appear before God
No as God is everywhere so that means that he must be in hell aswell , so he appeared in hell to visit the devil , but of course God cannot stay in hell for too long as it is very hot , but as he is always everywhere that means that he must always be in hell , but ehhhh .....its too hot to always be in hell .....so perhaps he has a special flame and heat resistant outfit .

the Devil is like a lion waiting to devour Christians.
But what if it is really a nice Lion that doesn't really want to devour you and is really grateul because once you took a thorn out of its paw in your Christian compasion .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

At one part, it said that the Devil appeared before the presence of God. So it means that the Devil can leave Hell and appear before God
No as God is everywhere so that means that he must be in hell aswell , so he appeared in hell to visit the devil , but of course God cannot stay in hell for too long as it is very hot , but as he is always everywhere that means that he must always be in hell , but ehhhh .....its too hot to always be in hell .....so perhaps he has a special flame and heat resistant outfit .

the Devil is like a lion waiting to devour Christians.
But what if it is really a nice Lion that doesn't really want to devour you and is really grateul because once you took a thorn out of its paw in your Christian compasion .

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Ha, very funny about the part where God needs special flame and heat resistant outfit. Have you forgotten he's God and doesn't needs an outfit??? Furthermore it said that the Devil went up with some angels to meet God. (I don't know why the Devil did that so stop prodding me).

Ah yes, Christian compassion. I think the Devil will devour us as a favour (not physically but spritually).

I feel that this thread has went way off. Its kinda productive talking to so many people with different ideas, espeically Adrian who prodded and kicked my answers around. But nuff said, I think I need to keep quiet and wait for others to have their say. ~:handball:

Have you forgotten he's God and doesn't needs an outfit???
I find nothing in any of the Bibles that details Gods wardrobe requirements or his fashion taste , so as there is nothing in there to learn about what god wears how can someone forget something that isn't there to be learned in the first place .~;)

I think the Devil will devour us as a favour
So the Devil is compasionate ??????

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Originally Posted by littlelostboy

Its kinda productive talking to so many people with different ideas, especially Adrian who prodded and kicked my answers around. But nuff said, I think I need to keep quiet and wait for others to have their say. ~:handball:

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I appreciate that, LittleLostBoy. You are an asset to this forum.
:bow:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

I appreciate that, LittleLostBoy. You are an asset to this forum.
:bow:

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Thanks. And tribesman, you have a very wierd way of asking wierd questions. ~D

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Originally Posted by littlelostboy

Ha, very funny about the part where God needs special flame and heat resistant outfit. Have you forgotten he's God and doesn't needs an outfit??? Furthermore it said that the Devil went up with some angels to meet God. (I don't know why the Devil did that so stop prodding me).

Ah yes, Christian compassion. I think the Devil will devour us as a favour (not physically but spritually).

I feel that this thread has went way off. Its kinda productive talking to so many people with different ideas, espeically Adrian who prodded and kicked my answers around. But nuff said, I think I need to keep quiet and wait for others to have their say. ~:handball:

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Hi littlelostboy, ~:)

I have a question. If God is so powerful, why can't he just make the Devil disappear?

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Originally Posted by mystic brew

But Paradise Lost is a work of fiction, littlelostboy. It's one thing to take every word in the bible as gospel (scuse the pun), but Paradise Lost is just one man's story. A fantasic one, to be sure, but still.

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So? The Bible isn't? The Bible is as much fiction as any work of Stephen King.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

The Bible is as much fiction as any work of Stephen King.

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I happen to agree with you, but I also think we should give other posters a break. Some people choose to believe in the Bible and there is no reason to constantly question them on this point. Instead of labouring the same points (historicity of Christ, origins of the Bible) all the time, it couldn't hurt to occasionally ask a believer exactly what it is he believes (and why) for a change. Show some interest in someone else. We could actually learn something.

Look at it this way: suppose I would confront you on the Falklands war each and every time you posted here, just because you are Argentinian. This is what it must feel like if you are a Christian and post about some of your beliefs. A horde of people come after you and shout 'Didnt you know the Bible is a fairy-tale?' The same by the way happens whenever someone writes about homosexuality. Immediately the evangelical brigade revs up and comes after him with insults and innuendo. That is just plain boring and it explains why we have fewer interesting discussions than we could have.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

So? The Bible isn't? The Bible is as much fiction as any work of Stephen King.

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Aw arent you so cute taking a hard line agaisant christianity. I should give you some candy

EDIT: Adrian made a much better point

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

Aw arent you so cute taking a hard line agaisant christianity. I should give you some candy
EDIT: Adrian made a much better point

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Please I don't give a damn about Christianity, I don't question the use of drugs as I don't question the faith of others, however littlelostboy was making some interesting fictional points using the Bible as a real resource of information. I presume that you agreed with AdrianII because he didn't hurt your feeling, however that wasn't my intention either.:bow:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

I happen to agree with you, but I also think we should give other posters a break. Some people choose to believe in the Bible and there is no reason to constantly question them on this point. Instead of labouring the same points (historicity of Christ, origins of the Bible) all the time, it couldn't hurt to occasionally ask a believer exactly what it is he believes (and why) for a change. Show some interest in someone else. We could actually learn something.

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I know what the Christian usually believe because I was one, I was almost a fanatic one sometime in the past. But that was not the point of my question, the point was question the Bible as a real source of real information.

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Look at it this way: suppose I would confront you on the Falklands war each and every time you posted here, just because you are Argentinian. This is what it must feel like if you are a Christian and post about some of your beliefs. A horde of people come after you and shout 'Didnt you know the Bible is a fairy-tale?' The same by the way happens whenever someone writes about homosexuality. Immediately the evangelical brigade revs up and comes after him with insults and innuendo. That is just plain boring and it explains why we have fewer interesting discussions than we could have.

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Is a valid point, and I'm not denying it, but the subject of the Malvinas is not related to faith or fiction at all, it has real consecuences with real people and real facts. Also it's valid to say that opening minds, wheter it's by a discussion on a forum or through a scientifical or philosophical work is a noble end, in some point in my life I saw that there was no Santa Claus. You can however, as you say, agree with them and not debate that point over and over, however this thread has an special value of religion in it. Proving what must be faith and what's the reality expressed by the same Bible (the words as they're not distortioned) can be also a valid point to demonstrate if this people are christian or not, to say if they're just ignorant or faithful. If I come with this tired point in a thread about Football it's a different thing, but the only option to understand this people is to go to the Bible and question it.

OMG this is just unbelieveable. If I was at that funeral I'm sure I would have just gone to my house to get my chainsaw. no really, how low can you fall.
If God wouldn't hate these idiots, I'd be Santa Claus.

I'm shocked again by how stupid and idiot some humans really are. :no:

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

So? The Bible isn't? The Bible is as much fiction as any work of Stephen King.

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I give a damn whether there`s a God or not....but that statement is not true; the Bible contains descriptions of how people lived in the ancient times. It actually got some scientifically value. Also the Bible was written with the intention of being believed, while SK didn`t write his stories with a such intention.

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Originally Posted by Quietus

I have a question. If God is so powerful, why can't he just make the Devil disappear?

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By logic, I would assume that the Devil is(if existing) also powerful...

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Originally Posted by Viking

I give a damn whether there`s a God or not....but that statement is not true; the Bible contains descriptions of how people lived in the ancient times. It actually got some scientifically value. Also the Bible was written with the intention of being believed, while SK didn`t write his stories with a such intention.

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Not that much, but yes. However the part that constitutes the faith is fictional, all faith is based on absurd and nonsensical so called facts (wich is a kind of oxymoron) that have a characteristic of being fantasy. Thus results like this faithful people spouting absurd and amoral rants. Said all this please present some of those historical valuable facts that the Bible discribes as such...Regarding Stephen King...Well I'll tell you an history. There was a man who brought the sacred Gospel to the people, specially the ladies, through songs and dancing. He had an enjoyable life, and was told to do miracles like saving people from the death, the Pope could do very well in canonice this one they told. Finally the man died, he was called the King when that happened and books were written about this incredible man and his so called facts. After his death people stated that they saw him running throught the streets in various locations, telling histories of him, so the resurrection of the man spreaded and became common "knowledge". Guess who he was...
Yes you're right he was Elvis Presley!! Some nonsencical statements were made regarding his life and his death, and "afterlife". It happened the same with Jesus, of course people in two thousand years from now will look back and pray to Elvis Christ, there's no difference, except for the Gospel and the kind of dead, and the time, but the essence of the history is the same.
My point is that the same could happen with Stephen King stories, people could believe that there's some truth in it, there's nothing preventing it...

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By logic, I would assume that the Devil is(if existing) also powerful...

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The doctrinarial word of the Church states that when there's no good there's the Devil. For instance power will only be that wich provides for the freedom of the cration, while the rest non-power will be the corruption to wich we're all doomed, God saves us from that corruption. Of course if you read the Genesis it talks about the fall of the angel and that sort of things, then you ask yourself: From where did this people took all this nonsense?
Also the doctrine later interpreted that God has even power to do this kind of things but he doesn't do it because he granted freedom to the man, so the man can choose the Devil if they want, in short God isn't fighting a Holy War against the Devil, he's kindda sitting in his throne expecting for us to die. Of course my words are totally biased but seek for the "truth" with the parrish, he should have it, maybe he can communicate with God and tell you.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

Not that much, but yes. However the part that constitutes the faith is fictional, all faith is based on absurd and nonsensical so called facts (wich is a kind of oxymoron) that have a characteristic of being fantasy. Thus results like this faithful people spouting absurd and amoral rants. Said all this please present some of those historical valuable facts that the Bible discribes as such...Regarding Stephen King...Well I'll tell you an history. There was a man who brought the sacred Gospel to the people, specially the ladies, through songs and dancing. He had an enjoyable life, and was told to do miracles like saving people from the death, the Pope could do very well in canonice this one they told. Finally the man died, he was called the King when that happened and books were written about this incredible man and his so called facts. After his death people stated that they saw him running throught the streets in various locations, telling histories of him, so the resurrection of the man spreaded and became common "knowledge". Guess who he was...
Yes you're right he was Elvis Presley!! Some nonsencical statements were made regarding his life and his death, and "afterlife". It happened the same with Jesus, of course people in two thousand years from now will look back and pray to Elvis Christ, there's no difference, except for the Gospel and the kind of dead, and the time, but the essence of the history is the same.
My point is that the same could happen with Stephen King stories, people could believe that there's some truth in it, there's nothing preventing it...

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It`s not pure fictional, it got the right Roman governor, asiatic towns etc. Hence it got what is called scientific value.

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Originally Posted by Viking

It`s not pure fictional, it got the right Roman governor, asiatic towns etc. Hence it got what is called scientific value.

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Again I agree, however the value is less than that of other true historical books.

I am surprised that this thread is still open..... ~;)

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

So? The Bible isn't? The Bible is as much fiction as any work of Stephen King.

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hey, i'm no deist.
But that's not quite the issue here. No one is maintaining the literal truth of Paradise Lost... as far as i know it's not canon in any form of christianity. therefore it can't be taken as canon

But there are a lot of people who say the bible has a lot of truth in it.
But littlelostboy confused some statements from one into the other. so i wanted to point out that while this may be his belief, the bible doesn't back LLB's version here.

mabey the history in the bible is false but by looking at the bible and then at the person who does belive in it it can show how they think to some degree regarding people and what it is to believe. this is where the bible holds power not in the direct image coming from it but how it warps the minds of readers, philosophy is the same, it makes people think in a way different from what they origioaly did, wheathger thats good or bad is up to the interpritation.

What idiots....

Maybe it's time we sent the Sarmatian Auxilia after idiots like these....

Though they have a right to speak out, do they really have a right to turn someone's funeral into a protest, a joke, to desecrate the veteran's good name?

Can they be sued for defamation of character?

If God truely hates homosexuals (which I doubt extremely), then he isn't God.

I hope some one jumps them.

This Fred Phelps seems to be a rather rough nutjob. With him threatening Swedes, would US sanction Sweden carpetbombing Kansas now ?? ~;)

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Originally Posted by bmolsson

This Fred Phelps seems to be a rather rough nutjob. With him threatening Swedes, would US sanction Sweden carpetbombing Kansas now ?? ~;)

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Have you ever been in Kansas - not really that much to Carpet Bomb. You only have three small cities to strike. Topeka, Witcha, and Salina (and Salina isn't all that big.)

Now Kansas City is big - but its mostly on the Missouri side.


So carpet bomb away - the farmers might thank you for making it easier to plow next year. ~:eek:

Edit: Oh and Lawerence as been burned down once already - it could use another good burning to help them feel like a bunch of jayhawkers once again.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

Again I agree, however the value is less than that of other true historical books.

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Many other historical works were written by biased people, indeed some are little more than propiganda. You have made it clear that you don't agree with the spiritual message of the bible, fine but don't discount the historical information in it.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

Many other historical works were written by biased people, indeed some are little more than propiganda. You have made it clear that you don't agree with the spiritual message of the bible, fine but don't discount the historical information in it.

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Again what historical reveletion is in there, than it's not in another book?~:confused:

Apologies to getting to this thread late, it appears some of you have wished I came earlier. No, that other guy is not me. ~:cool:

As for Fred Phelps and Co. - are they really lunatics? Yes.

However, they are no more of lunatics than many and/or most other people in society today. Ie: many people think murdering human babies is fine and dandy as long as it is labelled with a misnomer of "abortion" in an attempt to mask the act of murder. Does anything on the Fred Phelps site contain more lunancy than any pro-abortion (or "pro-choice") statement that are made by average, supposedly sane people? No.

Hence, the Phelps crowd cannot be stigmatized by the population at large as if the population at large is better: because in many cases, the population at large is just as insane.

In addition, God and Jesus certainly do not tolerate "gays" and the Bible makes that abundantly clear in very explicit language all throughout both Testaments. To spread that message is not wrong (although that is not exactly Phelps' message, so in this paragraph I am no longer referring to Phelps). To spread the message that "being gay is A-OK", as many so-called Christians like to do these days, is in fact very wrong. That is not what the Bible says and those who try to pretend it is are not Christians but rather members of an Apostate Church who know nothing of God and will not be joining God after their lives on the Earth are ended.

Navaros Being gay is a sin and you heard the stpry we are all sinners blah blah. and since in gods eyes all sins are equal them being gay is no worse than you lying

I'm finally back here. So who said that Paradise Lost didn't back the Bible or something like that??