LOL, what are you talking about??Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
Printable View
LOL, what are you talking about??Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
He's talking about the province of Carpathia being part of Hungary like it was in MTW, which it probably will be again.
Again no, Armenias are not Persian. Their language was influenced by Persian. See below, as I could not say it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi
Quote:
Like the Bosporan Kingdom, the history of Armenia stretches from the Golden Age of Greece through the Hellenistic Period to protracted status as a Roman, and Persian, client. The differences are that (1) Armenia was not a Greek colony but the realm of an indigenous people of Anatolia, like the Phrygians and Cappadocians, and (2) Armenia outlived all the Greek colonies, all the other ancient kingdoms of Anatolia, and even Rome itself. Armenia was subject to a long military and diplomatic tug-or-war between Rome and Parthia, then Rome and Persia, and finally Rome and Islâm. Even today the Armenian language reflects strong Persian influence -- which has made it difficult to determine the affinities of Armenian with other Indo-European languages. Deep Roman influence is evident in the fact that Armenia converted to Christianity in 301 AD, more than a decade before Christianity had any official toleration or status in Romania itself. Armenia has thus traditionally been regarded as the first officially Christian country, though, with uncertainties in dating, Ethiopia may be able to challenge this. The conversion of Armenia, under Tiridates III, the Great, was effected by St. Gregory the Illuminator (or Enlightener), a Roman and Christian raised Armenian, who then became Armenian Patriarch (301-325, d.332) -- undoubtedly the first Armenian Patriarch, although later the line was reckoned back to the Apostles, as with most Patriarchates.
And? Why shouldn't be Transylvania part of the Hungarian Kingdom?! :stunned: It was for 1000 years, what we can see now is just a temporary state... ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultras DVSC
He was joking, obviously... He is playing MTW, so he has to know at least something about history :wink: :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
Tell me you're joking. :furious3: ~:pissed:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzar Dusan of Serbs
But the most important is the present :laugh4:
anyway....bretwalda & ultras dvsc....
We all know that the magyars were nomadic people, so in the 10th century when the 2 magyar tribes called kende & gyula entered in Transilvania (from Pannonia where the magyars first settled in Europe in the 9th century,896 more exactly) along the Mures and Somes river lines they faced the vlachs (first romanians) and slavs wich were present there first.They first conquered the city of Alba-Iulia (Gyulafehervar, in magyar) and that's how the magyars began take over the Transilvania
but later in 1600 Michael the Brave (Mihai Viteazul in romanian) conquered back Transilvania by defeating the magyar army leaded by the cardinal Andrei Bathory at the battle of Selimbar and he united the 3 romanian provinces (Vlachia ,Moldavia and Transilvania) into a single country.
after that Mihai Viteazu was betrayed in the battle of Miraslau by the army of emperor Rudolph II of HRE wich changed sides and joined during the battle the Sigismund Bathory side and lost Transilvania.he also was assassinated by him later.
That was a short brief about Transilvania in the medieval ages therefore Im not trying to write all the histroy here cause' it will take long
so CA is right and edyz didn't knew exactly the history of Transilvania......anyway..i agree with that. In that period Transilvania was under the magyar occupation and the romanian medieval states evolved a bit later in the 14th century,so it is right to not be present in the MTW2 from the beginning....the romanian states should appear in MTW2 like slavs in the Bi....If CA confirms this I will be very happy:2thumbsup:
Yes, nearly. ~;)
According to the cronicles there were 7 magyar tribes in the time of the conquer (in hungarian honfoglalás, I'm sure you speak hungarian at least a bit). They made formerly an alliance, the treaty of blood (vérszerződés). Kende and gyula you've mentioned are not tribes but officies. Gyula was the general leader (Árpád), while kende was the main leader of the army (Kurszán). The conquer happened from east to west, so it wasn't Pannonia where they settled first.
Vitéz Mihály? He was just a disingenuous mass murderer who did nothing for the transylvanian romanians. What? Did he conquer Transylvania back? Firstly he only defeated Báthory in the favour of Rudolph with the székely magyars (!) who fought with him because they wanted to have their old rights again. In the other hand the vlachs never occupied Transylvania. They derived from the West-Balkan oppressing by the slavs. In the XI.-XII. century among the 511 recorded village names there were only 3 (!!) vlach-romanian. Even the romanian word for city comes from old-hungarian language: waras (nowadays: város)...
First of all, your informations about Vitez Mihaly are correct and I agree with them.
He defeated the Bathory in the favour of Rudolph because he wanted to make a powerful alliance against the Otoman Turks with Rudolph of HRE,he cared less about Transilvania,he only wanted to recruit more soldiers from here to conquer Istanbul,His primary goal was to destroy the turks wich were threatening Valahia (southern Romania)
Regarding other things u wrote....well....everyone makes their history how they want to believe (especially romanians and magyars).....the strongest proof regarding this is Iancu de Hunedoara (Janos Hunnyadi in magyar) and Matei Corvin (Matthias Corvinus in magyar) wich are considered by both romanians and magyars their national heroes,can 2 countries have the same national heroes?~:)
Also you must know about Gelu,Glad and Menumorout wich they formed the first states in Transilvania (Glad in Banat - western part of Romania),(Gelu in middle Transilvania) and Menumorout (Bihor and Arad county, Menumorout refused to accept the magyar occupation of duke Arpad in 907 and fought against him) before the magyar invasion,therefore they proove the existance of vlachs before magyars in Transilvania......you must read "Gesta Hungarorum" by Anonymous if you havent read it yet,there you will find the truth,i recommend it to you....to not be rude I will just say that the truth is somewhere at the middle.....
I don't think that this discussion must be brought on this thread but some things must be clarified. The vlachs were living in these lands at the time of the migrations. The lack of organised states in this region prior to the 10th century doesn't mean that the vlachs were not present in this area. The primary sources, like the chronicles of the time, must be read for better informing instead of other sources that are not objective. I see that many believe that the actual territory of Romania was empty, like the Moon or something :inquisitive:
This discussion deserves a thread in the Monastery section. :book:
Yes, I would've liked to see Armenia called Hayastan, but, beggars cannot be choosers. Also, Hayastan was a strong nation. At Julius Ceasar's time, it stretched from Jerusalem, to the Caucauses, to I think present day Ankara, and to the Black Sea. My people are also not a Persian people. Learn up on your history aobut my land. You will learn that in the battle of Vartananantz in 451 A.D., where the Sassanids TRIED to force Armenia to Zoroastrianism, that Armenia rebelled, but was unsuccesful due to Nobles who promised to reinforce the rebels, but sold out to the Sassanids. The rebellion was started mainly by St. Vartan (my namesake in real life). Sorry,for the history lesson, but as a junior member I cannot post in the Monasterey.Quote:
Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi
I am not joking.First for all,I'm from Serbia,as you can guese,in my country,Vlachs were totaly asimilated after Slavs invasion in VI and VII century,Vlachs only remained to live in the hills as catlle breder,onfortunaly,there is many problems with transalation,When I spoke about Vlachs I thougt about them.But I agree that Moldova,Romania and Valachia have a state,there were my mistake,couse I understand wrong position of Valachia when there were spoken about them earlier in this thread,I apologize for my mistake,couse same things and same tribes and nations are not saying the same on english and on Serbian language,this led me tomy mistake,I apologize once again.
Sorry for my poor english,but my knowledge of midle age history is prity good.
Don't worry Tzar Dusan of Serbs~:cheers: Although I have to say that in your country this comunity is not asimilated ~D They are living to this day especially in Vojvodina and in the Valley of Timoc (correct me if I am wrong regarding the spelling of this geographic region) and their rights as a minority are mentioned in your Constitution. Like I said, this discussion may find a proper place in Monastery, not in M2TW ~;)
Romania is a unlucky country, because is a latin country surrounded by non-latin countries...slavic & fino-urghic ones
Spain,France,Italy and Portugal are connected to each other....Romania is a stain of latinity in the eastern europe....with this final post I will end the offtopic talkings here.
It's Valley of Timok or Timočka dolina. But for English using people to pronounce it easier, it's better to write it as Timoc.Quote:
They are living to this day especially in Vojvodina and in the Valley of Timoc (correct me if I am wrong regarding the spelling of this geographic region)
Don't get me wrong, but do you think that we are really happy being seperated from our cousins from Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, Slovakia and Czech Republic by the Magyars and the Romanians?
I hope that the Swiss will be included, like in the first Medieval. Imagine thousands of armoured pikemen on the battlefield. :knight:
Alright! Orthodox! *Looks around and notices most are either Catholic or Islamic, and cheers louder* Alright, Orthodox!
Oh dang, I cannot edit my posts, but I cannot wait for the Russian Faction. I hope they have Horse Archers. I have always liked medieval Russia for many reasons:
A) Armenia was part of their empire (I'm a biased person)
B) The diversity of troops. They had some conventional Christian units, but never forgot that many of them were once Steppe Nomads, so they bring the Calvary.
C) The Patriarch was never someone who threw around the word crusade. (Take no offense, Catholics) but he never really governed anything but religeon, which means much more freedom!
Greetings, I haven't posted here in forever, but I thought I'd add my thoughts here as I'm very much anticipating Medieval II. I've been wondering about a couple of things regarding factions myself.
Firstly, the Byzantine Empire of this Era is in a fairly weakened state. The battle of Manzikert and the long decline since 1025 pretty much destroyed the powerful Empire Basil II built. I always felt Byzantium was too strong in MTW, holding too many provinces and in too good a position to sustain itself. I'm hoping in M2TW more consideration will be given to the actual financial and political state of the Byzantines.
I'm also wondering why Aragon is being excluded at this point. I always enjoyed using the Aragonese, and for that matter the Norman Kingdom of Sicily in the long campaign as they offered a great deal of challenge. From what I've read Aragon did exist in some form by 1080 so It's somewhat distressing it's not in there now. Especially since in later Era's the Crown of Aragon would even come to control Sicily and other territories outside its boundaries.
Furthermore, I wonder if M2TW will deal in anyway with modeling actual crusades. For example, will there be a possibility of the Latin Empire emerging in 1204 following a possibly successful 4th Crusade? The inclusion of an emergent Bulgarian Empire would be interesting as well.
I'll be watching how this develops, hopefully there will be a ballance between gameplay and accuracy we can all live with. Cheers.
Only way we'll get a good balance of gameplay and historical accuracy is if we can get CA to stop reading Cliff's Notes for their history and start listening to us for both history and gameplay.
Adding the Kathars as some kind of scripted uprising would be interesting. The event would also lead to some unusual european crusading. I think it would be amazing also if after sucessful crusades crusader states would be established.
I am almost scared to post in here due to my lack of medieval historical knowledge, but what the hey, I'll throw my opinion in from my observations of the first game.
It seems to me that the following was done well enough to suit my tastes: England, France, Spain, Aragon, Italy, Germany, Sicily, Almos, Egypt, Turks, and the Byzantines. I don't know how historically accurate all those factions were, but they seemed accurate enough to have a whole lot of fun with.
In turn, it seemed like there wasn't much of anything east of Germany. There was Poland, Hungary, and Novrogod. Poland and Hungary seemed standard run of the mill factions. Nothing to exciting. No interesting units like Kataphractoi, Jannisaries, Lancers, or AUMs. No interesting positions, provences, nothing that made them stand out. Novrogod was also over there, but you had to start Nov in High, and even then, a mere few decades before the Horde. It seems like its a little lacking over there.
So I guess in terms of factions for m2tw I would like to see some more Eastern flavor if thats possible. I think that some more work over in this area of the world would help. Another faction or 2, maybe another Ortho Culture or Muslim or something.
Armenia is as Armenian as Hayastan is. Hayastan comes from the word Hayk the patriarch of the armenian people. Armenia comes from the Armen tribe of the armenian highlands. During the confederacy of Urartu (mispronounciation of Ararat) the Armen-Shupria tribe was a major part of this confederacy. The armenian people are the original inhabitants of eastern anatolia, and southern caucuses.
For example Germany is called Duetchland by Germans. Is it not Germany still? is the word Germany not connected with the German people? Spanish speaking people call it Alemania. You have three diffrent words for the same place. All three words are native to the people of Germany. Another example is Finland I beleive they call their nation Saomi ( I maybe mistaken, but it is close to the word I wrote) How about the Welsh they call their nation Cyumri.
So True! Although I think everyone here tries to put their traditional thoughts and differences aside and analyze history we are still human so allow me to say this: I back up what Artavazd posted. Just my thoughts, not law. I, honestly beleive this talk belongs in the monastery, but I must take this time to comment: why doesn't the U.S. governement acknowledge the Genocide? Why not? Could you Americans do me a big favor and try to ask your politicians?Quote:
Originally Posted by artavazd
And yes, I beleive in Medeival Total War 2 that countries should be named by what they called themselves. Not what English people called them.
*Artavazd, I have also seen it spelled Haik.
not armenians national names: armenian...
that a district names.
first age armenia = a persian faction.
at that moment not armenians national names armenian.
OK, let's not start bickering between nationalities or discussing real life genocides etc. That's going too far off topic for a light-hearted computer game. It's only going to derail this thread and lead to bad feeling.
If people want to discuss the factual history of these things, there's the Monastery. If they want to make moral or political arguments, there's the Backroom.
We are all friendly gamers here, albeit from different countries and with different views of the world. ~:grouphug:
In order to maintain civility and avoid any unnecessary harsh feelings, I suggest the thread be tabled for the moment, and restarted once the situations have been transferred to their correct locations.
OK, I'll close the thread. Threads about "which factions should be included?" often seem to end in bad blood. And I'm not sure they make much sense now as M2TW has probably finalised the list of factions by now.