I thought of disorder as something else, my mistake.:book:Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
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I thought of disorder as something else, my mistake.:book:Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
Yeah right, it's all so cut and dry- 50 years of unwavering support. :dizzy2: I'm pretty sure surgery to treat psychological problems is generally frowned on- and many medical professionals are far from sold on the ethics of doing so for sex changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
http://www.blueletterbible.org/1Cr/1Cr006.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
:2thumbsup:
Wow Dave , so instead of dealing with the passage that says about mutilating your own body as it is Gods will , you just repeat the Letters passage .
Whassup , is the bible too contradictory for you :inquisitive:
Man, it's times like this I really wish I was posting from home instead of work. Your post all but demands that I post a photoshopped picture of myself sporting two enormous (200-300 pounds each at least) testicles and an eight-foot johnson. Which, BTW, would not be all that much of an exaggeration in my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
~;p
I find it a bit shocking that another member of the medical field can conclude that it must be the body that is surgically altered to fit the mind, and not even seem to consider the opposite approach. And then to not even touch on the controversy and debate that goes on in gender studies about this procedure. This isn't some 'just cut this off and call me in the morning' condition.
find it a bit shocking that another member of the medical field
Come on Prole , it is a very big field . It contains creatures of many different types and practices .
Actually , there were a couple of creatures in that field , of the likes of Mengele and Shipman . Is it shocking that you do not share their medical views ?
Or is it just that the person has reached the conclusion in this specific case without any access to the case history ?
This is my point. To act as if this is some cut and dry condition with one cure is wrong. Have you heard of the Government Policy Concerning Transsexual People that was published by the BLCO? Reading A Sat's answers would have a layperson thinking the entire field of psychology agreed with him. There is a wide range of views and dismissing them by saying 'should we listen to you or 50 years of research?' is a cop out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
What's my view on this? Did I post one? Please let me know where I might've mislead you into thinking I have a solid view on this so I can clarify my wording for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
What's my view on this? Did I post one? Please let me know where I might've mislead you into thinking I have a solid view on this so I can clarify my wording for you.
Oh dear prole , that one went right over your head .
Do you share the views of the two doctors I named ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Must need sleep. :oops:
But for the record, no I don't agree with Nazis or serial killers.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Phew, glad we got that sorted out. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
Yeah, it's pretty embarassing how badly I misinterpreted that post, but on the bright side I got a chance to point that out. :jumping:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Oh My God It's Lou Reed!!!!!
no, i'm pretty sure it's iggy pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Just because you have your **** cut does not mean you are a woman.
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!
All you dudes out there! You want to hit a dudeish thing?!
i see this word used again and it's another warning. please check your language. - solypsist
So by your definition it's only a woman if you think its worth hitting on... should make family reunions interesting. :dizzy2:
Oo, Oo, can I play too ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
The Book of Stone Cold.Quote:
Austin 3:16 says I just kicked your ass !
Don't know, do you? A man that thinks he is really a woman is obviously insane, like I said, giving someone like that a sex change is like giving an emperial guard to someone who believes he is Napoleon. Insane people shouldn't be near kids, today he thinks he's a woman, tommorow perhaps bluebeard?Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
From where you do deduce that he's "insane", is it a medical term and therefore an educated conclusion coming from a psycologist? Or you are just guessing? Hell man, you talk about ideals but you don't even know reality...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
No I am not a psycholigist, did study it for 2 years though, nice chicks. But A. Saturnus is, and he already said that it is a mental disorder, mental disorders being commonly associated with with being less then sane I'll say it's a pretty good guess. Reality is that this thing thinks he is a woman, what we think of that is just a matter of perception, I find it weird, and you think it is normal. Now that we are doing the shrink thing, are there any studies that explicitly show that the perception of children on sexuality and gender remains unchanged when confronted with Sheman? That would help the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Whatever opinion one might hold about this person, they are NOT a thing. They are human. Perhaps very troubled or misguided, and perhaps challenging to one's own beliefs in a way that troubles one's view of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
But no human being is a thing, and to reduce someone to such sub-humanity drives us down awful paths. It also prevents one from understanding, learning or teaching - and those you wish to change from listening. It is the language of the lynch mob.
There are people born all around the world each year that have both sexual organs. So its not a big step (more like a step down) to think that a person could be born with a mutation in the brain that cuases them to think they should be a different sex. Now i'm sure alot of you have said that god doesnt botch up the sex of a person, but what about those people who are neither male nor female, having both organs. I'm sure he must have meant them just to have a more interesting life, or maybe just 2 marriages.
Truth, but that's partially comprehended. Saturnus also said that he got gured thanks to the sex change, now everyone is disputing that educated guess just from a gut feeling. If he got cured he's technically sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Seriously though, this discussion is going no where, I suggest the people who don't want a transgender teaching their children to send their children to a different school. It isn't like the world is overrun by transgender school teachers...
Well, I admit I'm not an expert on the issue. And of course there is dissent about sex change operations. I doubt there is a surgical operation about which there is no dissent at all. Hell, we even have doctors claiming that AIDS doesn't exist. But sex change operations are an accepted and normal medical intervention approved by the APA and carried out thousands of times. Obviously, to great success. Doorn et al (1996) and Kuiper (1988) et al found in two large Dutch studies that almost in 100% of the cases, the symptomes disappeared. According to Vandereycken (2000) 68 to 86% of treated patients experience a significant increase in psychical and social well-being, including comorbidity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
Not many treatments to mental disorders can claim similar success.
But you're wrong to assume that I never considered the alternative. Some years age, when a friend of mine told me she found out that she's transsexual, I immediately realized that's the cause of some problems she always had, but in the beginning I tried to talk her out of plans of a sex change. I tried to convince her that a cognitive therapy would be better. But with time what she told me of her feelings, her experiences during therapy and with other patients that she shared with me and the literature I read on the issue convinced me that a sex change is the right way. His operations are now several years past and although he has to take hormone medication for the rest of his life, he feels better than ever before in his life. I've no remaining doubt that the sex change was the necessary thing to do.
Of course, that might not be so for everyone, but as I said, no sex change is done without a team of health care professionals that know vastly more about the individual case than any of us decides that it is necessary.
But actually, that's not really relevant. The point is that it is an approved treatment and it would certainly be discrimination if anyone lost his job because of it. And BTW, as far the state is concerned, the sex of the person is changed.
Let's just say you're entirely wrong, ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I think that there are currently no studies that show that your existence isn't detrimental to the health of sane people, so I suggest we let Navaros sacrifice you to his God.Quote:
Now that we are doing the shrink thing, are there any studies that explicitly show that the perception of children on sexuality and gender remains unchanged when confronted with Sheman? That would help the discussion.
I suppose it depends on your definition of mental illness. But when a 70+ year old lady/man has a sex change, I think something's up.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
Personally, I wouldn't want my kids being taught by someone like that. I put him/her under the same category as alcoholics as far as a positive influence to my children are concerned.
Nice. What a fascinating personal attack, you must feel pretty strong about this, had any dick inflation lately?Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
Wonder if any actions will be taken? Doubt it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
/~:rolleyes: hey i will be sure to send you a personal pm every time i warn somebody. - solypsist
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a personal attack. It was just a sarcastic comment to demonstrate the fallacy in your argument. I neither wanted to say that your existence is actually harmful to anyone nor did I intend to question your sanity. Also, I do not believe that Navaros actually sacrifices humans, and if he were, I wouldn't want you to be one of his victims. I apologies if any of this notions came across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
But you're still wrong. And yes, I feel pretty strong about this.