Not everything, every political or economical category or ideology crosses the Atlantic well. The French tradition of dirigism, of capitalism without capital, has always been very right wing. It's Gaullism, not socialism. Call it National Republicanism if you must, to use a better term than the historically unfortunatly chosen national socialism. And it has been, and to a large extent still is, very succesful. Rampant capitalism isn't the only path to a succesful, wealthy, open and free western society.
Me, I'm sitting here wondering how on earth a fractured wild west capitalist country like the US is not on the verge of collapse. Or rather, I would wonder about that if I didn't know any better. ~;)
Nuclear power, a competing car industry, space exploration, Airbus AND a humane social model - the successes of the French path can't be discarded. Combine it with the best health care system in the world and above all else a quality of life that in many respects is quite unrivalled, and you can understand the reluctancy of France to change her ways. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again: France is right and the rest of the world is wrong. :knight:
Unfortunately, you all insist on working like ants for eighty years, playing some weird game of 'he who dies with most things wins'. And globalisition means we're all in the same game now. So that leaves us with two options: oppose globalisation or figure out a plan B.
Some oppose globalisation, others realise that this cause is lost and give up in despair. Personally I have resigned myself to the fact France's War on Globalisition is doomed to fail. So that leaves figuring out plan B. The tyranny of inhumane capitalism shall not raise its bloodied flag over us.
As soon as we've find a way to overcome it, find another model, we'll be back on our march towards glory and grandeur, ready to amaze the world again.
Very moving, I think I heard music in the background. :flowers:
But for some reason it was God save the Queen.
05-04-2007, 00:50
Adrian II
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
In a mature democracy, most votes end up at relatively moderate centre-right or centre-left parties. It's very hard for a centrist party to rally the centre and claim it for their own because it is so crowded there and the molochs from the left and right cover it as well.
If the left and right molochs dominate and cover the centre, then there is no centre. However, if there is a real centre, then it can be rallied with a convincing party, a convincing policy and a convincing personality. With all due respect I think Bayrou possesses neither of those three. Was his 18% in the first round really anything more than the ras-le-bol vote of people fed up with both corrupt Gaullistic and corrupt Socialist elephants? In my view his studious, if not artificial aloofness stemmed from a lack of inner conviction.
05-04-2007, 00:52
Don Corleone
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Nice post, but several things:
France voted in the referendum against the EU constitution, therefore it didn't go into effect anywhere in the EU. I mean, what!? You think the EU can move on without us!? Gah!! Gah!! Gah11!1!!1! :whip:
Maybe you are confusing it with France staying out of Nato's central command structure? Shame on you Don. France isn't out to always obstruct anything and everything in the same old way! That's nothing but a scandalous American stereotype.
We're way too creative for that and always come up a new way to frustrate the rest of the world. Tsk.
Easy there, tiger. That wasn't a dig at French obstructionism so much as my misremembering of what exactly France voted against. I wasn't implying you were putting the brakes on other global bodies so much as I thought your vote was to avoid joining the EU, not ratifying its constitution. A thousand pardons.
I would like to hear more of this dirgism. How does one have capitalism with no capital? Either business (and individuals) own the means to operating their businesses, or the government does. What middle ground might there be?
05-04-2007, 09:54
Meneldil
Re : Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Not everything, every political or economical category or ideology crosses the Atlantic well. The French tradition of dirigism, of capitalism without capital, has always been very right wing. It's Gaullism, not socialism.
Well, I'd go as far as saying that the liberal (in the economical meaning)tradition has always faced a big no-no in France. All liberal regims (Louis Philippe, most of the 2nd Republic and the early days of the 3rd Republic) knew huge social and economical issues that led to their ruin (in the case of the 3rd Republic, it led to the victory of the radicals over the conservative republicans and monarchists).
We have a long tradition of dismissing liberalism and capitalism, although it's true that dirigism appeared mainly after WW2 (even then, many people would say that dirigism has a lot of common with Louis XIV or Napoleon's policies)
05-04-2007, 10:58
Husar
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Such as Mao Zedong, Paul Pot, Hitler, Castro, Kim Il-sung.
Does that mean you think Segolene Royal would fit into that list of people?:inquisitive:
And what about people who don't really believe in what they say such as Stalin and Saddam maybe, didn't they also get a lot of people killed?:sweatdrop:
It also depends on whether the person in question has the stance of a totalitarian ruler and as far as I know, France is still pretty much democratic, so unless the people watch someone take over, your comparison lacks a bit IMO.
05-04-2007, 22:38
Louis VI the Fat
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
I wish she'd stop talking and finally take her clothes off.
if there is a real centre, then it can be rallied with a convincing party, a convincing policy and a convincing personality. With all due respect I think Bayrou possesses neither of those three.
What!? Bayrou, no personality?
Watch this video then. For those who can't understand a word of what's going on, skip ahead to 1:20 to see what Bayrou does with little pickpockets. :whip: :yes: ::knight:
05-04-2007, 22:48
Louis VI the Fat
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
Very moving, I think I heard music in the background. :flowers:
But for some reason it was God save the Queen.
The funny thing is that my post was full of imagery from the Marseillaise. Could that maybe explain why it brought up associations with music and God save the Queen? I mean, I dunno, I only watch sports in the later stages of tournaments when they get interesting so I don't really know your anthem - but maybe there is an associative link there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I would like to hear more of this dirgism. How does one have capitalism with no capital? Either business (and individuals) own the means to operating their businesses, or the government does. What middle ground might there be?
Before the Second World War, France had a relatively fragmented capitalist economic system, which generally operated under traditional laissez-faire economic policies. The many small companies, often family-owned, were often not dynamic and efficient when compared to the large industrial groups of Germany or the United States.
The Second World War laid waste to France. Railroads and industries were destroyed by aerial bombardment and sabotage; industries were seized by Nazi Germany; the population lived with rationing for years. Some sections of the French business and political world lost authority after collaborating with the German occupiers.
Post-war French governments, from whichever political side, generally sought rational, efficient, economic development, with the long-term goal of matching the highly-developed and technologically-advanced economy of the United States. The main French tool was indicative central planning, through plans designed by the Commissariat au plan ("Commission for the Plan"). Contrary to the governments of the Soviet Bloc, however, the French government never owned more than a minority of industry, and did not seek to enforce its economic directions in authoritarian ways; instead, it used various incentives. Also, France never ceased to be a mainly capitalist country.
Because French industry prior to the Second World War was weak, due to fragmentation, the French government encouraged mergers and the formation of "national champions", large industry groups backed by the government.
Two areas where the French government sought greater control were infrastructure and the transportation system. The French government owned the national railway company SNCF, the national electricity utility EDF, the national natural gas utility GDF, the national airline Air France; phone and postal services were operated as the PTT administration.
This development was marked by volontarisme, or the will to overcome all difficulties (War-related devastation, lack of natural resources...) through willpower and ingenuity. For instance, following the 1973 energy crisis, the saying "In France we don't have oil, but we have ideas" was coined. Voluntarism showed an obsession with the modernization of the country, resulting in a variety of ambitious plans imposed by the state. Examples of this trend include the extensive use of nuclear energy (close to 80% of French electrical consumption), the Minitel, an early online system for the masses, and the TGV, a high-speed rail network.
The development of French dirigisme coincided with the development of meritocratic technocracy: the École Nationale d'Administration supplied the state with high-level administrators, while leadership positions in industry were staffed with Corps of Mines state engineers and other personnel trained at the École Polytechnique.
During the 1945-1975 period, France experienced unprecedented economic growth (4.5% on average) and a demographic boom, leading to the coinage of the term Trente Glorieuses ("Thirty Glorious [years]").
Dirigisme flourished under the center-right governments of Charles de Gaulle and Georges Pompidou. In those times, the policy was viewed as a middle way between the American policy of little state involvement and the Soviet policy of total state control. In 1981, Socialist president François Mitterrand was elected, promising even more state intervention in the economy; his government soon nationalised industries and banks. However, in 1983 the initial bad economic results forced the government to renounce dirigisme and start the era of rigueur ("rigour"). Subsequent governments never have considered economic dirigisme again, though some of its traits remain.
I brought it up to explain that a description of the electoral issues in terms of American choices is problematic. American categories don't always work well within the French context. Americans usually think of France as a socialist country. This is not out of any ignorance on their part, but it stems from applying American categorisations.
It is similar to Frenchmen describing Bush' policy as ultra-liberal. Which would raise some eyebrows in America too. It is another example of applying a classification that doesn't really cross the Atlantic well.
Other than that, I did agree with your post:
Don Corleone: ' I cannot imagine France electing a fiscal liberal like Sarkozy (liberal in the free-market sense for my American friends). France voted to keep itself from fully joining the EU to avoid market reforms, I cannot believe they're going to elect a president that ran on promoting them. I'm surprised Sarkozy did as well as he has. I think comparing him to Le Pen is unfair and unfortunate. All anybody has to do is suggest relaxing regulation requirements on key industrial sectors, and whammo, they're extreme right-wing and ready to devolve into National Socialism at the drop of a hat (ironic, as they advocate a close relationship between government and industry).'
Rereading my post today, it sounds a bit more agressive than it was intended to. In fact, on the basis of your quote above alone I'd vote for you as president over S and S. I'm all for a healthy dose of Anglo style free-market liberalism.
But the other intention I had with my post was too explain why this is difficult to implement. Why people are oppossed to it, and why they often have a very good reason for that too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
We have a long tradition of dismissing liberalism and capitalism, although it's true that dirigism appeared mainly after WW2 (even then, many people would say that dirigism has a lot of common with Louis XIV or Napoleon's policies)
Yes, the roots of it run deep, all the way back to Colbertisme and perenial étatisme.
Gah! And to think that the 'laissez-faire' principle of the physiocrats has been around all this time too, preceding even Adam Smith and the US. :wall: ~:mecry:
05-06-2007, 02:06
Louis VI the Fat
Re: The French Presidential contest
I'm still undecided. Not that it matters much: a fairy whispered in my ear that Sarkozy will win with 53.91% of the votes. It is still my democratic duty to make up my mind though. Even when I'm somewhat underwhelmed by both of them.
Foreign policy: Sarkozy all the way, especially concerning America and the Middle East. But I really wanted Bayrou here for his pro-Europeanism. Foreign policy is one of the main prerogatives of the presidency, and I couldn't bear Royal with her ancient reflexes here.
Economy: Sarkozy. More liberalism, market, labour deregulation.
Like Alain Juppé said: 'the introduction of the 35 hour week was the greatest folly of the twentieth century'. The left still sees labour as a scarce commodity that needs to be equally distributed. Gah!
Law and Order: Sarkozy. :beam:
Immigration and integration: Sarkozy. Will we see riots upon his election tomorrow evening already?
Labour unions and strikes: Sarkozy. :smash:
While Royal wants to talk and talk and talk with the 'partenaires sociaux', Sarkozy might ensure I can finally catch a train for two days in a row...
Social policy: Royal
Education: Royal. I should vote Royal only for her reasoning that we need more teachers instead of cops.
Personality, style: Royal. I liked the 'new' Royal from the debate. Dark power dress, agressive. It suits her better than that red/pinky, caring, feminine act - that's not her. She's a tough career woman.
Sarkozy I still consider to be clinically ill.
Also, there is a certain 'Berlusconiesque' air surrounding him. What's up with his using his connections to control significant portions of the French media? Getting journalist fired, preventing the Royal-Bayrou debate being broadcast normally, spying on people, being friendly with Laguardere (the French 'Rupert Murdoch'). I don't need a maniac, a control freak like Blair for a president.
05-06-2007, 06:12
discovery1
Re: The French Presidential contest
When will the winner offically take power?
For the record: I hope Sarkozy will win just so I can rub it in someone's face.
05-06-2007, 11:19
Fragony
Re: The French Presidential contest
Sarkozy will respect the eu-referendum, looks like I will get my way after all. Lefties becomming a bit desperate, Royal even implicitily asked the Banlieux to riot, these people will get into bed with anyone as long as it serves their purpose! Evil woman.......
05-06-2007, 14:03
KukriKhan
Re: The French Presidential contest
On a side note, I wonder about the mechanics of the voting.
Is there mail-in voting? Or must voters go to polls?
Paper ballots? Punch-cards? Touch-screen computers?
Who oversees the voting? Gov't employees? Volunteer citizens? Outside 'experts'? Party functionaries?
Any penalty for not voting or not showing up at the polls?
Are polling places conveniently placed/ not too far away from most voters?
Finally, on a scale of 1 - 10 (10 high), how confident are our French Orgah's of the sanctity and accuracy of the voting process?
Watch this video then. For those who can't understand a word of what's going on, skip ahead to 1:20 to see what Bayrou does with little pickpockets. :whip: :yes: ::knight:
Haha, this guy is from now on my favorite politician in the entire world :laugh4: (I don't know what opinions he has, but that's quite some personality)
05-06-2007, 20:20
Tristuskhan
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
On a side note, I wonder about the mechanics of the voting.
Is there mail-in voting? Or must voters go to polls?
Paper ballots? Punch-cards? Touch-screen computers?
Who oversees the voting? Gov't employees? Volunteer citizens? Outside 'experts'? Party functionaries?
Any penalty for not voting or not showing up at the polls?
Are polling places conveniently placed/ not too far away from most voters?
Finally, on a scale of 1 - 10 (10 high), how confident are our French Orgah's of the sanctity and accuracy of the voting process?
no mail-in voting, paper ballots overseen by volunteer citizens, vote not compulsory, poll places in schools or public sport halls. sanctity and accuracy:10 for the moment, but there are some voting machines now, and I don't trust it at all, since none can oversee it....
Sarközy of Nagy-Bocsa, paranoid, violent and followed by an all bunch of mafiosi and feudals... How lucky we are...
05-06-2007, 21:31
King Henry V
Re: The French Presidential contest
Doesn't he also murder children and drink their blood as well?
05-06-2007, 22:00
Tristuskhan
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry V
Doesn't he also murder children and drink their blood as well?
:2thumbsup: no he does not, as far as I know...
I don't like the man, but that's not so important, the worst is his followers, really, sons of the Cote d'Azur political mafia (Estrosi, Marchiani), feudals who went to jail for corruption (Balkany, Carignon, Longuet), good soldiers from the Pasqua networks (linked to the corsican mafia -Devedjian) and so on, people who would sell their mother to become a minister.... I bet the long knives are out because there will be no room for all....
Moreover he's a very very good friend of the gunsmiths who hold the press (Lagardère, Dassault), and also of every big industry tycoon in France.... Brrrrr, at least five years....
no mail-in voting, paper ballots overseen by volunteer citizens, vote not compulsory, poll places in schools or public sport halls. sanctity and accuracy:10 for the moment, but there are some voting machines now, and I don't trust it at all, since none can oversee it....
Thanks tristuskhan for the info:bow:; and welcome to the Backroom. ~:wave:
Sarkozy added that he wanted to tell his "American friends that they can rely on our friendship ... France will always be next to them when they need us."
But, he added, "Friends can think differently."
He then called on the United States "not to impede" in the fight against global warming. "On the contrary, they must lead this fight because humanity's fate is at stake here." (Watch Sarkozy's victory speech Video)
U.S. President George W. Bush called Sarkozy to congratulate him on his victory, a White House spokesman said in a written statement.
:yes:
:unitedstates: :france:
05-07-2007, 00:14
Tristuskhan
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Thanks tristuskhan for the info:bow:; and welcome to the Backroom. ~:wave:
So Sarkosy is not your best friend, I take it?
No he is not, but anyway... He's not the only one.
All I can say is that this dwarf betrayed everyone who allied with him in the past, and that he serves the upper part of the upper class. And.... and.... and.... no, he's not my friend at all and well, I'm a bit drunk and I think I'm not the only one who wants to forget about his masochistic country that elected a clone of GWB tonight.
05-07-2007, 00:19
Marshal Murat
Re: The French Presidential contest
Well at least it wasn't Royal appealing to the Chinese and their industrial growth and 'quick' justice system.
Wahoo!!! Damn :frog: , couldn't have their election yesterday so I could drink the Grey Goose. I'm eating nothing but French fries tomorrow! :barrel:
05-07-2007, 07:32
Adrian II
Re: The French Presidential contest
Last Friday Royal lost whatever chance she stood (slim enough by that time) when she warned that Sarkozy's election might provoke 'riots'. That was a astounding display of incompetence and irresponsibility. :dizzy2:
My preference was for Royal until Friday, but if I were French I would have abstained yesterday. There is noting to chose between a poodle of the mafia and a poodle of the suburban rioters.
Only a born loser can blow it in such dismal fashion after getting this far. I hope they dump her before the coming parliamentary elections on account of this attitude.
05-07-2007, 08:54
Andres
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
I'm eating nothing but French fries tomorrow!
Fries are a BELGIAN speciality, not French. BELGIAN! Gah!
05-07-2007, 10:23
Meneldil
Re : Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
My preference was for Royal until Friday, but if I were French I would have abstained yesterday. There is noting to chose between a poodle of the mafia and a poodle of the suburban rioters.
As usual, wise decision Adrian :2thumbsup:
I went to vote, but couldn't chose between Sarkozy and his crew (ie. industry giants, celebrities and all kind of parasits) and Ségolene and her old socialist guard.
Too bad she had to cope up all the crappy socialists such as Fabius, Jospin, Montebourg and co., and often went for the cheap way of personnal attacks toward Sarkozy. I would have gladly voted for her when she was still on her social-democrat stance, and wasn't saying all sort of crap (ie. always acting as a victim, launching personal attacks against her opponent, and so on).
It looks like we won't have a modern leftist party before 2012 at least.
Unhappilly, riots started yesterday, around 11.00 pm. Dunno who has been leading them (subruban scums, anarchists or even angry socialists), but they are total morons.
Now, there's something I find quite funny with this election. It's the way everyone is fantasising what will happen now. For die-hard leftists, Sarkozy's victory is almost seen as the end of the world : everyone will have to work 45 hours a week, people will be fired for no reason, all people with a colored skin will be deported, no more freedom of speech and so on.
OTOH, Sarkozy's supporter have the weird feeling their leader will somehow solve all of France issues, will magicaly create a 9% growth and will turn all girls and women into Jessica Alba-like babes.
Probably kinda like how people thought Mitterand's victory would mean that France would side with the USSR in 1981 :D
05-07-2007, 14:12
Strike For The South
Re: The French Presidential contest
45 hours a week is nothing. NOTHING I SAY!
05-07-2007, 14:55
Don Corleone
Re: Re : Re: The French Presidential contest
Aah, Meneldil, such is the disparity of expectation after every election. The losing opposition always assumes its the death of joy and goodness in the world. The victors act like it's the second coming. At the end of the day, most Western democracies have enough fail-safes built in them that dramatic changes are rather difficult to make in the span of 2 even 4 years. If you ignore the rhetoric and just keep asking yourself 'what's really changed', I believe you're going to find out the answer is surprisingly little.
05-07-2007, 17:07
Louis VI the Fat
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Sarkozy it is then. I can only repeat Meneldil's sentiments...
I was underwhelmed by both candidates. Sarko does have his positives though. In a masochistic, I-know-I'm-going-to-regret-this kind of way, I hope he gives France a good shake-up, in the areas I mentioned in my previous post.
***
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian
Last Friday Royal lost whatever chance she stood (slim enough by that time) when she warned that Sarkozy's election might provoke 'riots'. That was a astounding display of incompetence and irresponsibility.
Only a born loser can blow it in such dismal fashion after getting this far. I hope they dump her before the coming parliamentary elections on account of this attitude.
She was desperate. It was both unproductive and irresponsable. Unproductive because she had already mobilised the anti-Sarkozy vote. It gained her no new votes, and only estranged the moderate doubters. And irresponsable because you can create riots by the sole act of 'warning' of them. What riots there are feel almost obligatory. Not in the sense of staged, but of rioters who went to riot only because they felt it was their duty or something, the thing to do - they did it with the lacklustre passion of a civil servant going to work on a monday morning.
I don't think Mme Royal is a born loser, she didn't blow it on friday. Her case was already lost. Especially after the debate, her last chance. Which I felt she won, if not decidedly. The polls however said most voters were more impressed with Sarkozy. Oh well.
The born losers are the Parti Socialiste. Here is a country urging for change - and they leave people no choice but to look for it in a candidate of the ruling party. :wall:
This is the third time in a row the PS lost the presidential elections. Their base is growing ever more thin, they represent no more than 35% of the electorate anymore, and have nothin to offer to outsiders as long as they don't transform themselves into a modern social dmocratic party.
Even during these past few months the elephants couldn't close their ranks and support their candidate. Royal stood alone. She herself is more moderate than the party line allowed her to be.
I think she was an okay candidate, not the best, not the worst either. I think I would've supported Dominique Strauss-Kahn as a candidate. As minister he had a good track record of reform and liberalisation. And DSK has that rare capability of combining intellectualism with practicality. He was the one to lead the PS out of the wilderness. Royal emerged because of (assumed?) voter appeal, she couldn't gain control of the party, and couldn't come up with a definitive, clear program.
Unlike Sarkozy, who entered the election with a very clear program, and a very professional staff.
***
Quote:
It looks like it's going to be François Fillon for prime minister.
***
Quote:
Thursday Bayrou will present a new political party: le Mouvement Démocrate. I am already looking forward towards the legislative elections next month. :jumping:
(And, I'm sure, so is Bayrou - after getting in bed with Ségolène, will our mercenary now offer his services to the UMP again? ~;p )
05-07-2007, 17:08
Louis VI the Fat
Re: The French Presidential contest
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Finally, on a scale of 1 - 10 (10 high), how confident are our French Orgah's of the sanctity and accuracy of the voting process?
A nine. Very confident about the voting process itself, with a possible exception for voting machines, which are perhaps not as reliable and fraud-proof as they are made out to be.
***
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristuskhan
Sarközy of Nagy-Bocsa
Ten euro says you have at least one foreign ancestor within the last three generations. ~;)
Sarkozy is a Frenchman with foreign ancestry, just like François Mitterrand, Zinedine Zidane, Michel Platini, Napoleon, Charles Aznavour, Johnny Hallyday, Jacques Derrida, Bernard-Henri Lévy and Isabelle Adjani.
Oh, and nice to see you in the Backroom.:beam:
***
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
:yes:
:unitedstates: :france:
I'll toast to this. ~:cheers:
Bush or no Bush, I highly deplored the sad state of Franco-American relations of the last few years. Sarkozy being openly pro-American is a definite plus for me.
But let's not get carried away. In the American press Sarko is presented as 'the pro-American candidate!'. While this is true, Royal too in private is far more moderate in her opinion of America than in her silly public retoric. She speaks good English as well, she lived in Ireland as a teenager for a year.
More importantly, foreign policy was all but absent in the election. Sarko wasn't elected on any pro-Americanism. In fact, he downplayed it in the last few months. But at the very least, he wasn't rejected because of it either, and gained support because of it from a vocal minority too.
Hah! I can see the UK elect a staunch anti-American government next. Or for that matter, all of Europe and especially those countries who feel tricked into joining America into the Iraq folly. Spain, Italy, 'new Europe', the UK next.
Which would leave France as America's one friendly government in Europe. Oh the delightful irony! :laugh4: :laugh4:
***
Quote:
Brenus - a penny for your thoughts! Where are you?
05-07-2007, 17:19
Rodion Romanovich
Re: Re : Re: The French Presidential contest
I don't know if the non-finalists were worse, but to me it seems the finals were between a power-hungry loose cannon and an inexperienced, untactical hypocrite. I'd rate both of them about equally dangerous and unbenefitial for both France and other EU countries. The scary thing is how remniscent Sarkozy's temperament and personality is to George Bush's around 8 years ago... :hide: I hope he's not got the same aggressive urge and desire for war as Bush. His statement: "American friends that they can rely on our friendship ... France will always be next to them when they need us" sounds more like he's weak, uncertain and willing to crawl before the USA rather than cooperate with them on equal terms. Hope he doesn't draw the EU into Iraq or something like that.
