Suggestion Box

Maybe this has already been discussed but such heroic attachments to units could possibly be done via the traits and followers system. For example, a priest might provide more casulaty healing after the fight perhaps? It's not ideal but it could be the best we get.

As for what happens in individual WH games I don't think it's relevant because it goes against the spirit of the game. It doesn't matter if the AI can handle it either, not when it shouldn't have to. Stuff like that is for the individual to 'cheat' in if they so desire, ie do it yourself by modding the mod. The basics should keep to the spirit of the game, both WH and TW.

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Originally Posted by Revan-Shan

Yeah but that's your option, in Warhammer you can choose between making an entire army of catapults, cavalry, swordmen, archers or heroes.

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No, you can not, as you most likely know, there are limitations to the amount of heroes, special and rare units.

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Originally Posted by Revan-Shan

And about the AI... The enemy has no need to make armies of heroes, he would make basic armies.

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Not sure if I get your point here, will you please clarify?

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Originally Posted by Revan-Shan

In the Empire for example, you have sargents in every regiment and it's very common to add a Sigmar priest to it or put it near. And of course you have THE Commander (if you only want one). And you add an ingeneer and a mage to your army.
In total you end up with about 3/4 minor heroes and one commander, without counting the sargents.

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Unit champions will probably be officers of units, but they have the same stats as the unit, just a different look in MTW2.

3 to 4 minor heroes and a commander is still a little less than a group of 20 (i think that is the minimum for units in MTW2). Off course, heroes play an important role in warhammer, but i've never fought a battle against a player who decides to band together his heroes in a single unit, even though it's is allowed by the rules. (It is also allowed to deploy your units with their back towards the enemy, but I don't see anyone doing that either)

Fireblade

I've been thinking for a minute... is it possible to create sargents? like minor Captains.

If so each unit could have a special sargent, Flagellants could be commanded by a Sigmar priest, Spearmens by a Sargent, a cannon by a Ingenieer... This command units would be much more weak than the Captain and have a different skin.

And to make this aspect more special this could be done: Make each minor command unit special. For example, a Sargent would just have more attack, a Shooter (handguners) would be more precise, and a Sigmar priest would be as good as a Captain (more attack, defence and hitpoints than other minor command units).

And just one point: Flagellants don't flee. Never.

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Originally Posted by Revan-Shan

I've been thinking for a minute... is it possible to create sargents? like minor Captains.

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yes it's possible to attach as many as 3 Officers to a unit. Already the Black Orcs have a standardbearer (see the greenskin thread).

Coooooooooooool

Remember that officers share the stats of the unit they are attached to.

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And this is a very good thing, as it could be used to include the underground maps, if there's a battle in this roads the map for the battle would be a simple cave/tunel, catcomb, dwarf palace mine or sthg skaven or lizardmen (settlement and so).

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You must understand the limitations of modding. The maps are generated from the campaign map, so if you put a road between mountains then the map will be a road between mountains. You can add special maps to areas using the custom tiles method, however the custom tile is limited to the playable area so if you do use this method the distant objects will still be generated from the campaign map. It might be possible to make a three or so underground maps and repeat them along the road.

However, if it's like RTW, black roads are impossible unless you sacrifice a road type to tunnels, which is a bit much to ask. However, you can place 3D objects on the map (there are a couple of different ways of doing this) to add fake mountains to cover the valley, hence creating a tunnel effect.

I think it could be done, but not as well as some of you I'm sure hope, and it would be a lot of work.

I think if the team are going to do something like this, it's definately on their "To do if we have time" list.

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You can add special maps to areas using the custom tiles method, however the custom tile is limited to the playable area so if you do use this method the distant objects will still be generated from the campaign map. It might be possible to make a three or so underground maps and repeat them along the road.

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you still won't see one from the other though so if you artificially narrow the tunnel on the custom tile it will still open out where it starts viewing distance. The advantages with M2 might be it does seem to block really stupidly steep slopes more than RTW did which would help.

Also skies are a bit more flexible (you're not stuck with 3 cloud types) if you can sacrifice a climate to this area - which you'd need to for strat map textures probably anyway - you should be able to give it a unique weather condition so it always has sky that looks like rock, and possibly a permanent haze/fog to stop you seeing the non-working distant views.

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

The maps are generated from the campaign map, so if you put a road between mountains then the map will be a road between mountains.

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This is in fact what I suggested, It will give the dwarf holds a connection between them, making it easier to reinforce each other and making it easier to attack the other holds when you've captured a first one.

In warhammer the dwarfs frequently travel through mountain passes anyway, as a large section of the tunnel network has been overrun by skaven/goblins. Just adding some roads would, in my opinion, add the flavour of the mountain empire, while not taking a great deal of time from the modding team.

fireblade

I most definetly agree fireblade.

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Originally Posted by fireblade

This is in fact what I suggested, It will give the dwarf holds a connection between them, making it easier to reinforce each other and making it easier to attack the other holds when you've captured a first one.

In warhammer the dwarfs frequently travel through mountain passes anyway, as a large section of the tunnel network has been overrun by skaven/goblins. Just adding some roads would, in my opinion, add the flavour of the mountain empire, while not taking a great deal of time from the modding team.

fireblade

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Yes and no. I agree with you in that the WHTW should have roads between mountains. But I also suggested to make black roads that would represent tunels. And every battle in a tunel would have its map: catacombs, mines...

And dont think the map would be so difficult to make. The only thing you need is:

-A black sky, not dark, totally black. This is done in all strategy and roll games when they need to see the entire battlefield. Mark of Chaos for example.

-Black horizon. Just the same explanation.

-As there is no sun the light would come from candles and torches all over the place. Or maybe just from the soldiers torches, as if it was a night battle.

-Anything to make the underground feeling. Tombs and skelletons, mine stuff, skaven settlement stuff, lizardmen tunel stuff or just cave stuff.

-A thing that would add more feeling is several objects tall enough so that you observe that all missiles don't go further than the cave's limits. For this there are two types of objects: columns and tall corridors and walls , and stalagtites and stalagmites.
-Note: The top part of this objects should be flat and black, as they represent the top of the cave.

-Doors in the walls would be just perfect, that way rooms could be created. Do you imagine a totalwar battle inside a Moria style map?

-No tunel walls surrounding the map. When the army's morale drops and they scape they should be able to run in any direction.
-And I quote myself: black horizon

To serve as an example:

http://moria.es.games-workshop.com/t.../box_final.jpg

http://moria.es.games-workshop.com/t.../images/13.jpg

Games Workshop has better pics of Moria in the White Dwarf but this is all I could find in Internet.

the only problem is that buildings in METW are crap and the AI dosent know how to handle them (once had an entire battle of me following there army around a city hide and seek style :thumbsdown: )

To me, this sounds like extreme amounts of work for small benefit; it will most likely never be realized.
I think we should stop this discussion now and try to keep it real in future suggestions.

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Originally Posted by A Norseman

To me, this sounds like extreme amounts of work for small benefit; it will most likely never be realized.
I think we should stop this discussion now and try to keep it real in future suggestions.

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I agree with A Norseman, it is simply too much work, at later stages possibly but I think all of us want to see the mod finished and then more work being added onto it.

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Originally Posted by Revan-Shan

And dont think the map would be so difficult to make.

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Revan-Shan ... how much do you know about modding?

First 3 points are do-able, to an extent. The rest: all night-battles, light from torches and candles all over the place, tunnel walls, doors etc. are not do-able. The settlement format havn't been cracked yet, so we can't even change how the cities look like (except the textures ...).

Ofcourse, since you think it is so easy to make, i suggest you head over to this thread and give your contributions and start modding in this tunnel/cave:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=89573

I actually find this post by Mirage to be quite fitting here. His mod Broken Crescent has a good change of being voted the most promising mod for m2tw, so i think it's a good idea to listen to what he has to say:

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Also if you want to develop a new mod there is one key thing that separates success from instant failure: feasibilty and technical thinking.

My process of thinking has alway been in the order of:
Technicalities of TW -> New Ideas

That is you first think about what are the optimal areas that the game's engines can be exploited for and then you think of a mod idea. Far too often I see kid's dreaming up the theoretical idea first and then thinking about details only to become dissapointed that they discover that their most basic ideas will not be implemented. Seems like a basic idea, but its not really considered by a lot.

A good example are rookies that choose to do a mod in a different eras from a given engine that would in effect require settlement changes. Now lets face facts here - anyone with even minor technical knowledge of RTW/M2TW knows making new settlement templates is a goliath of a task.

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From: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115780

So, suggestions are fine, but please do a minimum of research into the technicalities.

regards,
Alletun

So there can be no innovation.

Then all we can suggest for the future are new factions and units.

But lets dream a little bit more: Air units! I'm almost shure it's impossible, but doesn't matter, it's just a suggestion.:2thumbsup:

then we can put tanks inside,or we can include deep strikes for assassins and spaceships landing at the battlefield bringing more regiments of knights and swordsmen to die.or even super teleporter cannons,transfering the dwarves from their hold to another hold or even in the outer space.whatever,i think it's impossible,get to work modding team,(did i forgot anything?):book: :egypt:

As to the suggestions:

Can some factions be given faction wide population growth bonuses? If this isn't possible, what about giving their buildings a growth bonus. For example, an orc barrack will also have a 0.5% growth bonus.

This way, some factions will be able to tech up newly captured settlements faster. Skaven will populate a new city a lot faster than elves, for example.

Will we still have to possibility to capture enemy settlements, or will there only be exterminate left? I don't think a human general will want a settlement still filled with orcs or undead. Off course, they will be less likely to kill an entire elf or dwarf population, but for the sake of simplicity, let's always exterminate them all. This way, you have to repopulate the settlements before they can be of any use, making population growth more important.

Fireblade

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Originally Posted by Revan-Shan

So there can be no innovation.

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please re-read my post

You will find that this is what im saying:
Suggestions are fine, wish-thinking is rather pointless.

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Originally Posted by fireblade

I don't think a human general will want a settlement still filled with orcs or undead.Fireblade

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The vampire counts have human servants, they are like imperial counts, just that they are vampires.
But the Tomb Kings I think they don't have humans. They kill every living thing.

No, if you look at the TK armybook there is one Tomb King city where the living and the dead live in peace, the desert tribes fight alongside the Tomb Kings and they work toghether, the tribesmen provide scouts and help protect the Tombs while the dead attack anyone trying to destroy the tribesmen's livelihood.

I think for the orcs,skaven, the population boon that Fireblade suggested should be the most noticable.
For humans and chaos it should be less.
And so it should get lower for the older races on for the elves, dwarves,and lizardmen.
Just a thought.

Revan-Shan, I'd suggest you have a play with the map editor...

I used a lot of time in map editors in the past and I don't want to continue with that.
continuous headaches :wall:
I preffer comments and waiting. :yes:

Have you tried the RTW map editor? I'm just suggesting because perhaps it would help you to understand what can and can't be done.

i have came up with some special units for the empire.something like sea men,like marines or free companies sailors,the first armed with musket and swords(with both skills high)and the seconds armed with pistols(if it is possible like pistoliers)and swords,or just swords.those would be good,like high elves who have also marines.and to make it a little realistic,we can put very high upkeep if we put them in cities so we have to put them in the ships all the time.so we can raid all the time,with a small experienced army whenever we want.i think empire has units of marines(i remember them)so would be usefull to include them,available only in the near costal cities

Lets see what Bwian says

Forgive me if it has already been mentioned but I have not yet read all of the threads and posts here ...

If it is possible, I think it would be a good idea to not allow the recruitment of troops from the other faction when you have captured one of their castles.
If the Empire captures a Chaos-Stronghold it should not be able to recruit Marauders etc ...

Maybe in certain cases the only option you get after conquering a city/castle should be "Kill all the inhabitants" or "Enslave population" ...

I can see the Empire taking over an Elven city (maybe), but I don't think Orcs would simply occupy a Dwarven stronghold and don't do anything to the population ...

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Originally Posted by Thalion

Forgive me if it has already been mentioned but I have not yet read all of the threads and posts here ...

If it is possible, I think it would be a good idea to not allow the recruitment of troops from the other faction when you have captured one of their castles.
If the Empire captures a Chaos-Stronghold it should not be able to recruit Marauders etc ...

Maybe in certain cases the only option you get after conquering a city/castle should be "Kill all the inhabitants" or "Enslave population" ...

I can see the Empire taking over an Elven city (maybe), but I don't think Orcs would simply occupy a Dwarven stronghold and don't do anything to the population ...

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I think thats in stock build MTW2, as I remember as england i couldn't build french units.

I'll go out on a limb here and state categorically that it's a given you won't be able to recruit conquered units. If you could it'd be very lame, with balance out the window and situations where you're fielding a hodge podge army made up of anything and everything. If a faction can recruit units of another race there's always the mercenary option, which I think is the only way this can be done 'tastefully'.

Imagine this you've taken your the Empire ( HELL YEAH!!!!) and youve taken a orc settlement you wouldn't go recruiting orcs for the empire. Common sense, i think.