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Yes, the article you quoted lied. The "Supreme Architect" is not defined as God. Although, yes, in some lodges the majority if not all members happen to understand God as the Christian concept of God and thats fine, they can do that if they so choose.
You better stop joining organizations on a whim of the moment like the army :laugh4:
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"While all these faiths assert their claims to the exclusive possession of the Truth, Masonry inculcates its old doctrine, and no more: 'That God is One ...'" (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma" p. 576, Teachings of the 26 Degree).
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"God in the view of Pythagoras, was One ..." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma, p. 667 Teachings of the 27 Degree).
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What do Masons believe in?
All Masons believe in one God and in respect for each other.
Maybe you should quit.Quote:
Atheists are not accepted into our fraternity.
How many sites would you like me to link these quotes too?
at least it's on-topic. oh, wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin
Oh, Im not really an Atheist, Im more of a skeptic-deist. I acknowledge there is a sort of order to the universe and that an intelligent designer or designers may well exist at a higher level of knowledge than us, but the concept of the judeo-christian god is inherently false. Masonry is all about seeking ancient knowledge, for example the roots of ancient hebrew religious cult and the many gods they worshiped which evolved over centuries into the concept of Yahweh.
I should caveat though by putting emphasis on my own skepticism; I often wonder for example about the silly notion of man being made in God's own image Our DNA string is riddled with useless leftovers of elder days and lower creatures, we have an appendix, a useless vestigal tail, a needless coat of hair thats grown (and shed) while still in the womb, easily worn out knees and lower backs, insane reproductive organs (especially for us men)... if God is in the details, he seems sort of clumsy and maybe drunken.
Your problem is that you hear to much of this hype that god is perfect and I guess believe it. If he created us he couldnt be perfect seems to always be your argument. Well its obvious that if there is a god he is not perfect. On that you will get no argument from me. Why should he be perfect. It doesnt take all that much to be superior in knowledge to us :laugh4:
yes, but silly religions claim he is all knowing and perfect, without sin, blah blah blah. which directly contradicts the torah which says many times that god is angry, or jealous, or spiteful. its crazy what some people believe (evangelicals mostly). Im not denying anyone the right to a spritual belief in a "Creator" or "Designer", even if it turns out to be some alien entity of ancient intelligence or whatever. But the adherence to ancient cults borne of the ignorance of early man is anathema to me.
I just had to quote that for the sake of referencing its source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
Again you keep mixing up religions with organised churches. These IMO are abominations of his ideas . Jefferson thought the same. Thats why you think he is anti religious yet he claims to be a true christian. If you want to be a christian then follow the words of Christ and not the dogma of some church that claims only it represents his word.Quote:
yes, but silly religions claim he is all knowing and perfect,
yes but the ideal of Christ itself is rather silly and implies a self-important view of humanity and some personal intrest of this supreme entity in your silly little life.
And thats bad because? What if their right?Quote:
yes but the ideal of Christ itself is rather silly and implies a self-important view of humanity and some personal intrest of this supreme entity in your silly little life.
Egocentrism tends to be regarded as a negative trait in general.
Isnt that what religious people think of atheists . We think your too wrapped up in your own and mans grandeur. That you are all that counts. No my friend the shoe is on the other foot here. How does believing in god make you self centered person. Just the opposite is so.Quote:
Egocentrism tends to be regarded as a negative trait in general.
Thats ridicuclous. The idea of personal religion is the most egocentric and self-important view one can have. To imagine that the Supremo-Ultimate GOD of Goodness and Awesomeness has an intrest in a cosmically insignificant collection of matter such as yourself that lives for only a nanosecond on the cosmic timescale is just silly. To imagine that you need to converse with said deity several times a day just to remind him that you're there is even worse. People aren't that important.
It's not about believing in God, it's about believing God gives a damn about you and you're the reason for creation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Honestly, I don't think either side can claim to be less egocentric, it's all about interpretation and who's egocentric depends more on the eprson than his or her beliefs :shrug:
Absolutely correct in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
I also find it funny how Zaknafien continues to modify his postion versus admitting that his initial statement was indeed incorrect as it relates to the founding fathers of the United States,
Being a free-mason does not necessarily mean one is not a christian.
Exactly. As I always say moderation in all things is the name of the game. This is something Zak really needs to learn :laugh4: Stop going off on extremes and find the middle ground. Thats where the truth usually lies.Quote:
Honestly, I don't think either side can claim to be less egocentric, it's all about interpretation and who's egocentric depends more on the eprson than his or her beliefs
I just noted thats sort of an oxymoron (where the truth lies) Stupid english language :)
I guess theres more that 1 way to take that.
Parents should have been warned and have the option for their kid to opt out in a non conspicuous way. I don't care how qualified this guy is, if you are going to counsel someone on a topic such as this, it is best done in an intimate manner, not in a huge, mob-rules assembly of all students.
Had a similar instance when i was in high school 14 years ago. This is hoestly nothing new. The "speaker" said things that I had never concieved, and I wasn't exactly a boy scout. Can't say the "speaker" screwed me up in life, but nonetheless I'm sure there were people in the audience who didnt need to hear it.
If people are that unimportant, then why is it frowned upon if someone gets rid of a few of them/us? Not a great loss for the universe anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
Besides that, in the bible God himself says that he cares, if that's true, it's not an assumption and you yourself are assuming things about God that he himself declined. Of course you don't believe in the bible, but I'm not trying to burn you for heresy either so you might want to cool down a bit or stop constantly calling the believes of others silly. :sweatdrop:
Next he will be telling us he used to be an Evangelical preacher :laugh4: But has seen the error of his ways first hand.
Nah, but like I said I did study New Testament and Old Testament at a Christian college my freshman year.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:Quote:
Nah, but like I said I did study New Testament and Old Testament at a Christian college my freshman year.
I knew it
I was waiting for
"Well Im no priest but I Did Stay in a Motel 6 Last Night.
Yep. Im a regular Rennaissance Dude. Of course, it was Southern Baptist... I dont know if that counts since they're a little more crazy than most Christians.
A little :help:
Not from me, its far to entertaining to watch you two go back and forth, besides Ive been a pagan for far to long to engage in the silly back and forths on the bastard offsprings of christs teachings. He' was a jew after all, but dont let me muddy the waters on this whole religion, god thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
But when Ragnarok comes neither of you clowns are getting into Valhalla on my dime. :clown:
Well I wasnt really looking to argue with him. Im afraid of the Southern Baptists. No wonder he thinks Christians are nuts :laugh4:Quote:
Not from me,
I return to say this:
I refuse to even read any of this thread.
I say only on reference to the speaker noted in the original post:
Far :daisy: out.
(Albeit sex at 14 is kinda weird...)
Things must have been allot better in the 50s with people farting roses and throwing up lollipops, granted the kids who grew up then are the baby boomers who have run this country in the datgum ground. My parents aernt very strict with me at all now becuase when I was younger they instilled good vaules in me while they did use some throw back methods they were also realists and told me never to drive drunk and always wrap it up knowing tell me not to do it is just sheer idoicy. The ones who are really screwed up are the kids who are tuaght its bad. There loons
You do realise your condemning those who started this whole thing you support. I agrree with your assessment but for just the opposite reasons. We messed it up alright by telling everyone have sex anywhere anytime its good for you. How allof you can ignore the baggage that comes with sex is beyond me. Kids should enjoy being kids for a while. It cracks me up how some of can claim their mature enough to have sex with a 14 year old but not with an 18 year old or older. Like that changes the maturity of the younger person. Your either mature and old enough to have sex or your not.Quote:
granted the kids who grew up then are the baby boomers who have run this country in the datgum ground.
Honestly, our more civilized ancestors view on sex was much more liberated than our own and they were just fine. It wasnt until the advent of sexually repressive Christianity that sex became taboo in the West.
More civilized than who?Quote:
Honestly, our more civilized ancestors view on sex was much more liberated than our own and they were just fine.
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It wasnt until the advent of sexually repressive Christianity that sex became taboo in the West.
This is all pretty much the doing of one man though his name escapes me at the moment.