Interactive History VI: Warrior's Ambition

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

You do realize that our future subordinates will be politically brainwashed SS soldiers, who will have hard time accepting a aristocratic Heer officer, as their commander, specially because in Waffen SS the future leaders of units went trough their basic training together with their future subordinates.

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Are they? The Waffen SS has almost as much of a criminal history as its more well-known sibling, true, but our boy's joining Hausser to be Special Forces first, SS second. I'm pretty sure that the average soldiers in these more elite, specialized formations aren't more "criminal" than their brethrens anywhere else.

I mean, he's not going to command prison guards or anti-partisan formations. At least, I hope that's not going to happen. Rather, we are commanding elite soldiers, more interested in the success of the operation and the victory of the Fatherland than whatever the Führer's propaganda machine has to say. These types I think are bonded together through trials by fire rather than social etiquette. And we can easily substitute the lack of "training" with the soldiers by, well, fighting with them.

Besides, I want to play a game where we rise up the ranks through a mountain of communist corpses, not fascist ones, if you know what I mean. ~;) While the officer school might provide us with interesting insights and leverage among the SS, allowing extra resources and smoother negotiations with Walter's superiors or whatever, the price -- going deeper into the SS politics (you make friends (and foes?) in these places) and consequently a worsened personal conflict -- is not worth the gain, especially when there are much more effective alternatives elsewhere.

My 2 florins.

Unvote 1 and vote 3

I chose under the misconception that we would learn reckon tactics (light armour tactics) when going to panzer school and that the reckon guys would only supply us with knowledge of our enemy and it's terrain.
Now that it's clear that we can only learn reckon tactics at the reckon school, I'll vote for that.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that Walter may spark some resentment in his subordinates for not being SS, I'm also fairly sure this resentment will evaporate ones they are convinced of our abilities. Also, we only have to report to Hausser AFAWK and he chose us and not some SS officer.

3) The recon forces at Münster could offer some insights into line of sight and the lay of the land.

As I’ve understood it, Walter have no experience regarding fighting with Recon troops, thus this will probably be the best idea. While in an ideal world, he would be able to visit all the places as they’ve all have something to teach. I do see the benefit of number 2 and 4, with our future within the SS. But I think that for the immeditate future, 3 is the better choice.

I might change this vote if additional information or argumentation would come that could point harder for the benefits of 2 or 4. The only part I don’t really see any benefit about is 1. I mean, we arn’t expected to drive around with tanks, are we?

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Are they? The Waffen SS has almost as much of a criminal history as its more well-known sibling, true, but our boy's joining Hausser to be Special Forces first, SS second. I'm pretty sure that the average soldiers in these more elite, specialized formations aren't more "criminal" than their brethrens anywhere else.

I mean, he's not going to command prison guards or anti-partisan formations. At least, I hope that's not going to happen. Rather, we are commanding elite soldiers, more interested in the success of the operation and the victory of the Fatherland than whatever the Führer's propaganda machine has to say. These types I think are bonded together through trials by fire rather than social etiquette. And we can easily substitute the lack of "training" with the soldiers by, well, fighting with them.

Besides, I want to play a game where we rise up the ranks through a mountain of communist corpses, not fascist ones, if you know what I mean. ~;) While the officer school might provide us with interesting insights and leverage among the SS, allowing extra resources and smoother negotiations with Walter's superiors or whatever, the price -- going deeper into the SS politics (you make friends (and foes?) in these places) and consequently a worsened personal conflict -- is not worth the gain, especially when there are much more effective alternatives elsewhere.

My 2 florins.

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Well Hausser, during this time was commander of 2nd SS Division Das Reich and it was definitely elite division, like 1st SS Division, Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler or 3rd SS Division Totenkopf, which all together formed the famous, II SS Panzer Corps, where we are also most probably heading. Each of these three divisions had tremendous battle value, but also each of these divisions committed war crimes, like killing POW´S or civilians. Make no mistake about it. Elite or not, we have not joined into a boyscout organization, being a combat effective soldier will not make individual any better or worse as person. But i will rest my case now, because the recon training or any other training wont hurt us in the future. But no doubt the lack of SS officer training will cause us trouble in the future, but then there will be trouble ahead in any case.:yes:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

I would say that we should first learn the "house rules" of Waffen SS, in order to be efficient leader, so: 2) Go to Bad Tölz to find out about SS officer training. Since Walter was Heer until now there is bound to be some differences.

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kage is absolutly right! Let`s go to Tölz!
Why? There are several reasons. Now that we joined the SS, we have to ride the dragon. We have to meet some of the officers, learn how they think, maybe get some good contacts. We will need them some day. I guess not every SS officer is pleased about a new entry from the Heer. Let`s learn about our friends and enemies within the SS.

Also we can learn more about the SS tactics here than in the infantry camp.

And we might get some information about Hausser and his secret mission.

Option 2

Having read the latest posts, I've decided to change my vote. Mostly because I've bought the motives that it could be good to understand the nature of the Waffen SS officer corps. In particiler since we, after all, are here to do a career.

With alot of luck we might even be able to visit another place as well.

Is this interactive still active? It would be a shame if it would end this way.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

Is this interactive still active? It would be a shame if it would end this way.

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Kraxis will get back to it, don't worry. It just might take a long while.

Kraxis Interactive Histories are like Guinness ads - good things come to those who wait.

Just a friendly message to Kraxis.

We're all still waiting to continue this IH. We haven't forgot about it and hope you haven't either. :grin2:

The loyalty of good people. :yes:

I am sorry I never let you guys get any word on what was going on. Seems to be a very bad habit I have. At times our lives do pull us in odd directions.

Know this, I never dropped the idea of continuing this. At intervals the story has popped up in my mind, new junctures and new ideas have been thought over. I guess that is part of the reason for my inability to come with an update, that it has all the time been a 'temporary' leave in my mind. One that got to be almost permanently temporary.

Well, I'm back now. In for nothing else than a new little update.

Part of the problem I think is that Walther is a more complex person than any of the other characters. There I have been able to mold them in relation to their environment or have historical records to lean on. Walther is a clean slate. Further I don't have any historical event to tie the story into. This is a more 'generic' situation. One that could potentially have happened to thousands of people.
But a problem isn't synonym with wrong.

An interesting thing is how, given time the votes here have drifted towards special training more or less. Well it is the 3rd option that wins.

Forgot to add... a new chapter will be up soon.

Although finance market breaks down and stock exchanges collapse ... this is a great day for all of us ~:cheers:

Here here :2thumbsup:- just realised I am going to have to read this all again!!

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Although finance market breaks down and stock exchanges collapse ... this is a great day for all of us ~:cheers:

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:yes:

Does this mean Kraxis is in fact the opium of the people? :holmes:

Chapter 4: To Münster

Walter woke with a jolt... His long sleep had taken him from the hospital all the way to Münster itself. The dreams had been the longest in his life, it felt as if he had lived an almost entire life in them. Coming back to 'life' was something of a surprise.
He looked down himself as he could begin to make sense of his surroundings. His jacket was black... He never wore black. So were his leggings, and the cap resting on the little folding table of his traincabin. It took him a few more moments to remember he was an SS Sturmbannfürher now.

Still feeling groggy he disembarked the train and stumbled through the station itself. Outside he got hold of a military truck loading soldiers from the station, and to his great furtune it was destined for the base outside town. Another surprise hit him when he learned that it wasn't a reconschool, but a regular trainingcamp for infantry and artillery. The driver looked him over. "You coming with us? You look a bit lost, maybe the guard captain can tell you something?"
Walter just nodded, no point in just milling about at the station for no reason. Might as well try to get some sense out of this. Besides these were green regular infantry, by the looks of it from a new division too. Maybe they didn't know that much about the place either.
The drive took another 20 minutes along first good roads then a bumpy forest track, until finally a military checkpoint emerged. The truck was quickly inspected then let onwards, and a few minutes later they reached the real gate. The driver opened his little hatch and called out. "Sturmbannführer, this is it. We are moving on to the enlisted barracks now." Then he added with a smile. "I doubt that is where you are supposed to go." The other troops in the back grinned at it as Walther jumped down the back.

Looking around the truck Walter saw one guard out lifting the block and another two men sitting inside the little guardhouse, obviously warming themselves near a little stove. With full strides Walter walked up to the guard, now letting the block down again. Looking at the strange SS officer bearing down on him, the guard frowned, then turned to face him with his MP40 dangling at his chest. He snapped a salute and Walter responded.
"What can I help you with Herr... ehh?"
Despite the different address from the SS way, Walter, being an aristocrat and mostly schooled in the Heer, actually preferred it, and smiled lightly at the guard.
"Yes, in fact I believe you can Gefreiter. I have this pass," Walter said and handed the man his almost universal pass from Hausser and went on, "and I have heard that there is a reconschool here in Münster. I was hoping you could direct me towards it."
The guard examined the pass for a few seconds then nodded. "Yes, there can be some confusion as to this matter. Our school here is not specified, it contains a lot of artillery and infantry training, and little else to be honest. The reconschool isn't a school in it's own right, it moves about the country I hear, but for the time being it is here in Münster. It isn't that hard to find, but I better find you a ride since it is a lengthy walk."
"If you would be so kind."
The guard trotted inside and spoke in a phone for a few seconds, then he came out again. "As you can possibly imagine, you aren't the first man to come here a little confused. I have witnessed more than one man being picked up in town because he didn't come here when he heard it was an infantry camp." The man sighed. "I wish they would just make it easier and have representatives at the station so incoming personell could get the correct information there."

After a few minutes a motorcycle came up to the gate and the guard waved Walter on.
To ride in a sidecar was a new experience, but one he valued. This gave him a slightly better insight into the motorcycle troops' feel when they moved about, and more importantly how much visibility they had.
The building Walter was directed to looked more like a warehouse than a barracks or schoolbuilding. Inside an orderly quickly grabbed his bags and scurried off, while a Stabsgefreiter led him to a classroom and ushered him inside. Puzzled by the silent treatment and apparent need for speed, Walther looked around.
Clearly this was the place he was supposed to end up at. All the walls were lined with maps, shadowcontours of vehicles, pictures and lists. Lined in a classical style were small oneman tables, and at this time the room was nearly three quarters full. The other men looked at the newcomer with some detached interest. Frowning at the entire situation Walter decided that there would be more to be gained if he awaited their 'teacher' or what it would be. So he seated himself on the second row next to a handsome young Obersturmführer. All around them were men from various services, greencollared panzergrenadier officers, white collared infantry officers, pinkcollared panzer officers, a few red artillery and gold/yellow recons. Only three were Waffen SS by appearances so far.
The young SS officer next to Walter leaned over. "Welcome Sturmbannführer, don't feel puzzled, this is how it works here. They don't seem to dabble too much in beaurocracy, to the point of too little I would say." Walter looked at the smiling face and frowned again. "Oh where are my manners, I'm Viktor Graebner of the new Hohenstaufen division." The young man extended his hand. Walter tried not to let Graebner's easygoing style affect him, but he found himself smiling as he gripped the hand in a firm shake. "I'm Walter von Schleizinger, not yet assigned to any command."
"Well, I see you are already familiar with recon." Graebner said nodding to his golden piping on his shoulders and neck.
"Not really, I have only just joined the Waffen SS. So I have just been given what was at hand really... or at least think so. I'm really a panzergrenadier commander. But we'll see in time."

Graebner chatty and straightforward, kept up a barrage of questions, constantly keeping Walter off balance. Until finally the door opened again to admit a leatherfaced Heer officer with greying hair and icy eyes. The yellow piping on his neck and shoulders marked him as clearly recon. He took in the roon in one glance then trampled up to the small desk before facing the 'students'.
"Gentlemen, welcome to the reconschool. I'm sure some of you are confused, but that it alright. You are in the right place, I can recognize all of you from the papers." Then he turned his eyes onto Walter. "But I don't know you."
"I'm Sturmbannführer Walter von Schleizinger."
"Ahh... yes, I was told that you might turn up at some point or another. Lucky for you we are about to begin a speedy course in recon." Then he turned back to the classroom. "I'm Hauptmann Franz Janssen, I see that I'm not the senior officer present, but don't let that fool you, men. In this course I hold absolute command. Forget about ranks. You will all address me as Herr Hauptmann, without question!" The last part was directed at the SS officers in the room.
"Before we begin learning about the equipment and special style of the German reconnaissance I have a small test for you. Simply it is to see if you are fit of mind to command our precious recon forces in combat. So far you have made the easy hurdle of that of your superior officers' consideration, now you must make mine, and trust me I'm far more demanding of your abilities and thoughts." As he spoke he grabbed a stack of papers and handed them to the men at the front row and waved for them to pass them down along the line.
Walter grabbed one test and pessed the rest along a Heer infantry officer behind him.
Inside the test was a drawn map, a text and a table of forces.
"As you might have noticed the map isn't exactly of photographic quality, it is from my own hand and as such it is far beyond any other quality in this world. The point being that often handdrawn maps will be all you have to guide your forces on. Read the text!"
Walther stared intently on the text, willing to give it his best.

"You are in command of a company of scouts (see the table of forces for a breakdown). The current situation is that your division is advancing at full speed north. You need to quickly determine what kind of opposition the regular forces can expect, and where they are, along the way.
Earlier today a fighter pilot, on his way back from intercepting an enemy flight noticed a line of trucks moving into a village just north of your position. He counted around 15 situated at the center of the village as he flew home. His description is all you have of the surrounding area. Based on the number of trucks and the expected enemy unit opposing your division Intelligence expect that you will see around a batallion of infantry occupying the village.
Your objective is to scout out their positions, determine their composition and if possible drive them away. The latter is only a distant third objective."

https://img82.imageshack.us/img82/58...ningon6.th.jpghttps://img82.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

It is early spring in Russia, that means thaw in the day and frost in the night. The ground is mushy but not muddy yet. To the southeast of the village runs a drainage ditch, it is about 2 meters deep at most and it can be expected to be slightly more muddy. To the east of the village is a dense wood, hard to travel through in vehicles. To the west is a light wood, likely created through generations of farmers sending their farmanimals to pasture in it. It is a maze of small tracks and paths. Too dense to look or speed through, it has basically no undergrowth or low hanging branches. Running in a mostly east-west direction is an embanked road so typical for rural Russia. It is nearly 2 meters taller than the surrounding area though not in the village itself. Running from the south to the village and the high road is a low road, even with the surrounding farmland. To the north is another dense wood and running from the north to east is a stream or small river. There are a couple isolated houses along the high road.

The company consist of:
1st Platoon, your HQ of 2 Light Armoured Cars (you and the XO) and 2 Heavy Armoured Cars, 6-wheelers, in support.
2nd platoon of 4 Heavy Armoured Cars, 8-wheelers.
3rd platoon of 4 Armoured Halftracks each with 4 mounted scouts as infantry.
4th platoon of 5 motorcycles with sidecars and MGs.

As the officers around him read on and began to finish, Hauptmann Janssen's loud voice carried through the room again. "So now you know what awaits you. What I want is a plan for dealing with a Russian enemy and another for how you will handle a German enemy."
Walter raised a hand. "Herr Hauptmann, why a German enemy?"
"Heh... Well you see, our primary enemy, Ivan, isn't stupid. He learns, and he will by the Heavens learn from us in time. Maybe not perfectly, but mark my words, if we don't finish him soon, he will be a lot better. And who can he learn from but the best?"
Janssens words rang sharp and scary in Walter's mind. So far the Russians had been rabble in most cases. A few brialliant forces weren't enough to shake this, but they had been getting better lately. They had copied the German practice of having the infantry ride into battle on the back of tanks, and even evolved it further to make it a sort of shocktactic, where the Germans had just used it interim. Horrible losses to be sure, but it meant the infantry was among the enemy faster. What else was in the cooker of the Eastern Front?
"Go to your rooms and ponder this until tomorrow. Yes, you get more time than in the field, but you are raw in this, even if you are experienced field commanders. I will evaluate your work tomorrow afternoon."

The class quickly filed out, some heading for the mess, but Walter headed for his designated room.

How will Walter command his forces to scout out this village and surrounding area? Remember to include a tactic for both enemies. Some sort of combined work will be required of you, something you can agree on doing.

Kraxis is back and with a nice problem for us to solve too! :2thumbsup:

I figure based on the report that we can expect the time to be around afternoon.

We should also determine what exactly is the difference between a Russian and a German enemy.

Anyway what immediately becomes apparent here is that we have at most 16 infantry scouts at our disposal, with an additional 10 in reserve if we dismount the motorcycles. So we really cannot afford to waste our infantry.

As to how I would perform our reconnaisance, I would send the 4th platoon to scout the light wood in the southwest, while sending the mounted scouts of 3rd platoon to scout the dense wood in the southeast. They'll be supported by the 2nd platoon that will advance on the southeastern side of the village parallel to the drainage ditch, where their heavy cannons should be able to give decent support and possibly. The 1st platoon would initially be held in reserve and sent to support a withdrawal if needed. After the flanking woods had been scouted, I would with the support of the 2nd platoon send a squad of mounted scouts from 3rd platoon to advance along the ditch, while pretty much pouring heavy cannon fire in the houses near the ditch. At the same time I'd advance with 1st platoon along the road, with the XO taking point, followed by the two 6-wheelers and you taking the rear, concentrating their fire on the first three houses. This should hopefully enable us to get pretty far along the ditch without taking heavy casualties and allow us to get a picture of the enemy at the southern and western sides of the village.

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Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

Kraxis is back and with a nice problem for us to solve too! :2thumbsup:

I figure based on the report that we can expect the time to be around afternoon.

We should also determine what exactly is the difference between a Russian and a German enemy.

Anyway what immediately becomes apparent here is that we have at most 16 infantry scouts at our disposal, with an additional 10 in reserve if we dismount the motorcycles. So we really cannot afford to waste our infantry.

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Your job is to more or less point out how you expect a German enemy and a Russian enemy would be arranged in and around the village. And then figure out how to take advantage of each side's dispositions to scout them out.

The current time is around noon, but that isn't so important. Walter will grab his food and get his sleep regardless. :beam:

The mounted scouts are more closely tied to their APCs than similar armoured infantry. Simply put they are extremely lightly armed and equipped. They are superb at close quarter fighting, but they do require the assistance of their mounts, and they feel naked without them.

The motorcycle crews are the old remnants of the pre-war scouts and light regiments. They are obviously fast, mobile and very observant. But dismounted their only tactic is basically the ambush, given that they are armed with pistols and their MG. Tactical dismounted maneuver is nearly impossible. That said, the motorcycles can easily navigate the light wood. The APCs being the largest vehicles you have, will be hard pressed to move through the dense wood at all.

Oh, and all the armoured cars have the same 20mm autocannon as their main weapon. It will be some time yet before heavier weapons will be available in any numbers.

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

Your job is to more or less point out how you expect a German enemy and a Russian enemy would be arranged in and around the village. And then figure out how to take advantage of each side's dispositions to scout them out.

The current time is around noon, but that isn't so important. Walter will grab his food and get his sleep regardless. :beam:

The mounted scouts are more closely tied to their APCs than similar armoured infantry. Simply put they are extremely lightly armed and equipped. They are superb at close quarter fighting, but they do require the assistance of their mounts, and they feel naked without them.

The motorcycle crews are the old remnants of the pre-war scouts and light regiments. They are obviously fast, mobile and very observant. But dismounted their only tactic is basically the ambush, given that they are armed with pistols and their MG. Tactical dismounted maneuver is nearly impossible. That said, the motorcycles can easily navigate the light wood. The APCs being the largest vehicles you have, will be hard pressed to move through the dense wood at all.

Oh, and all the armoured cars have the same 20mm autocannon as their main weapon. It will be some time yet before heavier weapons will be available in any numbers.

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So essentially we will have a very hard time scouting the dense forest. That does change things a bit. As to the autocannon, it should most likely be more than enough to cause havoc inside those Russian buildings. I'd bet that there might at best 2 or 3 concrete/brick buildings in the village and planks shouldn't be enough to stop 20mm autocannon grenades.

So we're facing an infantry battallion. That would be something like 4-5 companies of infantry with various support elements. I'd say with the Russians we might find a lot of the battallion concentrated inside the village, while with the Germans I'd say the surrounding woods should hold a company each, with the town protected by one company + supporting units.

Not impossible, but perhaps with another force?

I'm getting dangerously close to advising you now, though my previous comment shouldn't be seen as such.

I only mentioned the 20 mm autocannons because of the heavy weapons comment. While heavy compared to regular MGs, they are hardly heavy compared to the support weapons even a normal infantry company has available (mortars, field guns etc). It was just there to clarify, not that I disagree with your analysis of the capabilities.

For a Russian Enemy:
I would assume 4 companies of Russian troops. A Company would garrison the town center, with the XO at least. B and C companies would line the embanked roads. D company would be in reserve, behind the village and embanked road.

To identify the Soviet positions, I would use my motorcycle scouts to go forward through the light wood and identify the flank company and identify houses garrisoned in the town. The 2nd Platoon would drive at the village, seeking a Russian response. If the fire gets serious (AT guns) then the 2nd platoon would pull out, and cover the Russian troops until the 'main force' appears. Hold 1st and 3rd platoons in reserve.

Solution
If asked to root out Soviet troops, I would have the motorcycle troops identify the flank on the embanked road. 2nd platoon would demonstrate against the front of the village, attracting all attention at the fore. The 1st and 3rd platoon would then move through the light woods, with a fore of the armored vehicles. These forces would punch the embanked road, clearing it with mechanized troops, and then swing round behind the village. The armored troops would lead around, motorcycle troops cordoning the northwest road the the forest. The 1st and 3rd would sweep behind the village, and then ride against the rear of the eastern embanked road. The 1st and 2nd platoons would then pincer the town, supported by the mounted infantry.

For a German Enemy:
The German companies would be aligned in the dense forest. A Company would be in the village. B company in the eastern forest along the ditch. C Company would be in the dense forest in the northwest, waiting for Soviets to ride over the embarked road. D Company would hold a position from dense wood to village. Were the Soviets to ride over the embanked road, they would be held by D Company and C company would hit them in the flank. Were they to attack the village head on, D Company could reinforce A Company, and B Company would attack on the flank.

Solution
To identify the troops, motorcycle troops would go through the light woods and identify any German troops. The armored and mechanized would sweep between the the dense woods, rooting out the Germans there-in. I would then wait for reinforcements. To attack, I would then send the armored and mechanized on a reverse sweep. 2nd Platoon would rejoin the motorcycle troops and fire on the woods and any troops nearby. 1st and 3rd would sweep behind and crush the Germans. Then they would sweep the village.

I'm glad to see this IH back. :grin:
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...
but I'll let people with more knowledge of WWII tactics make the descisions for this round.

Difficult one.
Do we have any indication of scale of the map?

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Originally Posted by Flavius Clemens

Difficult one.
Do we have any indication of scale of the map?

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About 400 meters from the eastern dense wood to the low road and another 600 meters to the light wood. So about 1km across.

Wonderful to see this IH going alive again. I'll be back this afternoon with a little longer post.

Edit: Or more likly I'll leave this part for sharper minds.

As per my other colleagues, I think the difference between a russian approach and a German one will be that the Russians would be concentrated in and around the village while the Germans would be more diffuse but mutually supporting.

It would appear the only forces likely to penertrate the thick forest on the right will be the m/c platoon, so initially they should take the right and all others the left. We should avoid the open in the day - there are about 2-300 troops in the village - probably with light A/T, mortars and mgs so any attack in the open in daylight will be carnage.

Initially we should probe through the woods stealthly and quietly. As night falls we can infiltrate some men from the m/c platoon to near the village by using the ditch as cover. On the left we should aim to be on the flank of the village with the heavy armoured cars and over the embanked road with the other forces - possibly in the edge of the thick woods to the north of the village. Using the information gathered during the day, we call in an artillery strike for midnight - the men would be in their billets and they will be at a lower level of alertness. Also, as it is still fairly cold, most of the troops will be in the houses. When the artillery opens up, all companies open up with maximum firepower and pour it into the village. The artillery will also fire the occasional star shell so we can see what is happening. Ideally the choas caused with an attack from several directions will cause them to crack and run - if they do, the mobile forces to the north can close to capture prisoners and keep the rout going. If they hold their ground - the German way? - then we have a good idea of the strength of the forces and the main force - due in the morning? - can deal accordingly with a force pinned down and tired from being under fire all night. Moreover air support could be arranged for first light.

On such a small tactical level you don't exactly have the luxury of time. Not to the point of waiting for night and the following morning.

You are mere hours ahead of the main force.
You have more than enough time to sneak about and lurk and so on, but a direct result is needed from that. It isn't Eben Emael you are attacking. :beam:

And Gurkhal and woad&fangs, don't worry. Even if you feel less competent about these things, you insights and ideas might spark some clues the ohers could have overlooked or some such. Valid comments are always worth it. And in the end, you supporting one or another idea could prove decisive since some sort of agreement is needed. Walter can't propose ten different tactics, can he now. ~:)

Kraxis - I think that Montgomery would have approved of my cautious plan!!

If we have less time, then I still would propose a similar plan, but quicker. Also the artillery would use smoke as well as HE. Also, perhaps we could have an air strike to arrive at the same time. I still hold with staying away from the open - a few A/T guns would shred our armoured cars - hey A/T rifles would be bad news.

I decided to have a shot at this thing after all, and then we’ll see what people think about this.

I actually don’t see that there would much of a difference in how Russians or Germans would go about this place in defending the village. The objective of the enemy is fairly obvious as I see it, that’s to prevent anyone coming from the road running from the south, to go into the settlement. This should of course quite easily lead to the conclusion that most enemy heavy weapons are position and turned towards the south and that road, as well as camouflaged to prevent anyone spotting them from the south and the road. I would guess that the enemy also has some sort of cross-fire tactic in mind with those woods positioned as they are, and that would really make just walking forward a real death trap. Likewise I also don’t think that the ditch would be readily available as cover since part of the trap might be to make the attacker’s infantry run into the ditch, and thus there could well be mines in it or a machine-gun mounted too cut down anyone who goes down there.

The way I think that this should be avoided is naturally through flanking and infiltrating. Since the object of driving the enemy away was only one a distant third place, I recommend that rather than trying something heroic (and in my mind on the border of stupied) which could lead our small force to being massacred by an overwhelming enemy in a rather pointless way (as I see it) I won’t even try to drive the enemy away. Soldiers and vehicles are if I am not entirely wrong, already precious to the Germans so I wouldn’t take more risks than I would have to, not to mention that I don't see it as our job to punch a way through the enemy since that's what we've got tanks for after all. The German force should be divided into three parts. The motorcycles are to advance through the light wood and scout that out, possibly leaving their vehicles to avoid raising attention with the noise and avoid going into a direct fight, better that they pull back in time. Meanwhile the 3rd platoon shall advance through the dense forest in likewise manner and possibly leaving their vehicles if the ditch extends to far south and to avoid drawing attention with the noise from the engines. The infantry should also if possible sneak as far ahead as they can to get a look at how the village looks like, but shouldn’t get to close. The rest of the force stays put, ready to intercept to cover a retreat of the infantry. I wouldn't mind if our man joins the infantry himself for this one, good to keep the moral up and he can see what happens directly.

If I would make an attack, that would go through the two forested parts and cut into the village while using the banked road as a cover to avoid flanking fire, and that should also avoid getting into the targets of the enemy’s heavy weapons. The question who that should go where is a little trickier. But possibly the motorcycles and the halftracks, if they can get through the woods and over or around the ditch, and then advance in a circle towards the village, while the armored cars would go likewise through the light wood. The plan is then that the two groups goes without raising undue attention and attack the village from two directions with surprise. If the dense wood is not possible to navigate for the vehicles through, then it might be a better plan to keep the force united and strike from a single direction.

Ok, so we are a few hours ahead of the main force, no artillery cover, and our job is to determine the nature of the forces in the village.

I'm not going to bother trying to drive them off, that's not my job.

Keep the motorcycles in the dense wood. They're our only units that can move through it (and withdraw through it) at a reasonable clip. The halftracks and infantry scouts will be kept in reserve to screen a rapid withdrawal, while the heavy ACs will move on the left side of the ditch, covering the MCs and light ACs, which will move through the light woods. We will withdraw as soon as we come under fire and can determine the nature of the enemy forces.

The left side of the road is the location where fire will most likely come from, as there are clear fields of fire, so avoid it at all costs.

There could be landmines on the approaches to the village, so my men should be alert. There are certainly mines on the roads as the enemy would anticipate my advance moving up it.

Although I might be wrong. Gurkhal's plan is however, excellent.