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Here is this ECW reenactment site.
the Fairfax Battallia
It seems that in the first phase of civil war both sides didn´t rely on mercenaries, but rather on militia (so called trained bands).
http://www.fairfax.org.uk/MAIN/GALLERY/index.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
A trained band musketeer
So we are just going to give England some cheap-generic-peasant-militia type of unit?
Yes, for a time period between the decline of the use of longbow and bill and the introduction of the new model army.
In the beginning of the high era England may still have some units of longbows (without a possibility to retrain them?)
Some small units of regular (better quality) infantry (some sort of royal guard maybe) and some cuirassier type cavalry. The main force in the army should be those militias (trained band musketeer, trained band pikeman, trained band billman)
Basicly it would mean that an English player better hold a low profile until the New Model Army arrives. They should get a decent navy and good admirals though, to save the AI from being invaded and easily conquered.
For a human player they should offer a nice challange to play.
Thats what I was going to suggest. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...evalcheers.gif
I think, the English should have sir Francis Drake as an admiral in the beginning of the high era. How many stars should we give him? Five? Six? Seven?
Drake
here is a good link on 16th century warfare
There were no standing armies as we know it, although there were a few more-or-less permanent establishments in France. In the aftermath of the Hundred Years War, Charles VII dealt with the problem of unemployed men-at-arms pillaging the countryside by forming permanent standing compagnies d'ordonnance, which were composed of 50 - 100 lances. A lance was a single fully armored knight, with his squire, page, groom, and at least two archers. François Ier created standing provincial legions, large bodies of infantry inspired by Roman models. The Spanish had great success with something similar, the tercio, but the discipline, support logistics, recruiting and training needed to sustain such a military organization didn't quite develop in France. In addition to these institutions, there was a modest royal guard, well-known for its stylish outfits.
Game wise this can give us an interesting situation. How about having a lot of cheap HIGH upkeep late medieval troops (which you would have to disband after war just like in the 16th century). Then once you reach a new level of research you can build more expensive LOW upkeep representing new ways of organizing the army and new ways of paying soldiers
Next portraits, United Provinces. I presume there will be no Holland in the beginning of the early era though. Officially it was founded in 1581 though, but I guess it deserves its place in the high era.
The republic didn´t have any official heads of state as far as I undrstand, but the Oranje family held great power, being the stadtholders of several provinces.
Willem van Oranje
Maurits van Nassau
Frederik Henrik van Oranje
Willem II
Willem III
will you be making a new campaign map?
and do you want me to look up kings names for some of the german states?
You should take into account the fact that the AI doesn't disband its units.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
The start of the revolt against Spain began in 1568. In 1581 the northern Netherlands proclaimed their independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
The Family Oranje-Nassau were the commanders of the army's of the republic of the united Netherlands, most of the time. If I remember correctly almost all provinces chose them as Stadthouders (with the exception of Friesland a few times and in the two periods without stadthouders)
The head of the State were the Staten-Generaal wich was made out of poeple from all provinces. The person wich had most of the controll was the Raadspensionaris wich was elected by the Staten-Generaal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
so right =( im kinda new to this modding thing so yeah there are a few other things about that idea that are bad too.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Eastside Character
The French seem to don't like the fact we don't talk French on the forums.
Yeah, I think so. I'll try in NTW forum. I'll ask for basic help ( unit names translations), maybe we'll get more than just that.
Actually I think this unit should be rather a missile one than melee. If there was one free projectiles slot, we could make 'arkan' as a short range missile weapon causing fear. I think it'll be hard to construct this unit in the way so it represents what it's supposed to and to make the AI handle it correctly. A lotta playtesting will be needed here.
Tough one. First - I believe it's impossible ( or quite hard) to make a weapon causing fear unles it is gunpowder or artillery weapon. Second short range weapons are really difficult to use by AI. Third I've already tried the idea of different fear causing units - in my fantasy mod I made, for example, Vampires fear Witch Hunters and it really works and the AI seems to use them correctly i.e. avoiding other units just to get the Vampires.
Of course we can try different ideas, I say why not ?
Faster charge idea is to make the unit more likely to capture more prisoners than an average Tatar unit.
azid
I would be glad to help out more in this mod but im not a mod person so i can only do fluffy stuff, unless i read up on total war modding someday.
Don't worry about modding - it is progressing, I believe EC and I can make most of this.
If want to help immediately, please translate the names of Swedish units from page nr.7. I mean singular and plural forms for words like 'musketeer','pikemen' and so on - in Swedish of course.
More unit ideas, titles and other is also really important.
Trax
Why not to have one special armourer building too, in Milan for example?
Again it's difficult. The 'special' metalsmiths will be available only in provinces with iron i.e. Toledo and Damascus (wherever these are).
Of course we can add 'iron' for Milan just for the special armourer structure, but this way the metalsmith will be available in Milan to and vice versa - the metalsmith will be available in Milan.
I think, the English should have sir Francis Drake as an admiral in the beginning of the high era. How many stars should we give him? Five? Six? Seven?
As far as I know it's impossible to make historical heroes for navy, it is only possible to make famous generals and agents, not admirals.
It was discussed in NTW forum in details ( Lord Nelson case).
SwordsMaster
After building the military academy the reformed units should become available, without removing the old ones.
OF COURSE I JUST FORGOT to add military academy to the building list, and not only this.
I edited the techtree so you can check.
Link about the Danish army
YOU ARE GREAT I was able to find there very much info about... Russian army at that time. And I found my 'Holy Grail' - the unit I was trying to find for quite a long time. What's that ?
The Russian HUSARIA Yes, yes the Russians were trying to copy Husaria and created one unit of them, but it proved to be just a copy - much weaker than the original polish unit, but I think it could be implemented in the mod.
REQUEST TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE TEAM
Please not post general, historical info about countries. I believe we know enough about Reformation, reign of different kings and so on.
And please check unit/faction list in page nr. 7 first.
What we really need is military part ( units, commanders) + provinces, trade goods, titles, names, pictures etc.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
Here is revised unit list for Russia
Noble cavalry - Znat cavalry - elite unit;
Pomestnaya Kavaleriya - basic, average cavalry;
Mounted Streltsy - from 'high';
Ryndas - mounted, but can dismount in every battle ( Tzar's bodyguard);
Kormovye Dragoons- regiments of so-called Komarits dragoons, - after military reform - like western dragoons;
Inozemniy raiters - after military reform - like western cuirassiers;
Cossacks on the state service - 'Russian Cossacks';
Russian hussars - copy of polish husaria ( but weaker), from 'late' - in Novgorod only;
Lancers - copy of polish pancerni ( but weaker), from 'late' - in Chernichov and Smolensk only;
INFANTRY
militia ( armed crowd);
Streltsy - from 'high';
Datochnye ( Conscripted) - Gorodovye - after military reform
pikemen and musketeers ( weaker than western infantry, but cheaper);
- Vybrannye ( guard infantry)- from 'late'
pikemen and musketeers - so for example Datochnye Vybrannye pikemen;
IN ADDITION
Russia will be able to use irregular Cossacks cavalry, various Zaporozhian units, some Tatar units and regional units ( e.g. western mercenary infantry and cavalry).
Russian names are required for all those units i.e. translations for 'dragoons', 'hussars', 'pikemen' and so on - for example Datochnye Vybrannye pikemen.
DEAD MOROZ
Please read this - link -
maybe You can add something more.
Regards Hetman
P.S. I edited the unit list on page 7 implementing those changes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/flat.gif This will significantly weaken factions such as England and Holland.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
We can give them valour bonuses in their homelands or even better ships I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif
we can give them a +3 command admiral title. and a cheaper type of ship.Say a frigate.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
BTW, ships:
Frigate (high): cheaper for Holland, England, a ship that combined power and speed, most of the northern fleets were composed by frigates.(fast, quite powerful)
Galeon (high): cheaper for Spain, Portugal. A huge, heavily armed and armored ship, that, if lacking the agility of the smaller ones has quite good speed and VERY powerful artillery. Those were used to escort the gold fleets to/from America.(slower than frigates, VERY powerful)
Galley (always): Cheaper for Spain, Ottoman empire, Venetia. A ship with 4 powerful cannons and a variable number of oars. These ships were very common in the mediterranean as the frequent changes of wind made them perfect for coastal waters. They are usually equipped for boarding-disembarc operations.(very fast, average combat stats, maybe some bonus to landing?)
Carrack (early, high only): Cheaper for Portugal. A heavier version of the Caravel, these ships are common for the portuguese fleets for the beginning of the period. They were also used as merchants. quite average stats, shouldnt be able to catch a frigate or a galeon, but would catch merchant ships.(average-poor speed, average combat stats)
Venetian/Genoese merchant (early): cheaper for Vanice, Genoa (maybe unbuildable for others?) a cheap, reliable ship with a good but small crew that makes it VERY unsuitable for combat, even more so, when considering it was not build for speed but for space. (bad speed, bad manoevre, bad fighting stats).
Caravel (early, high only): included in the game already.
Thats all for now. BTW, can we include ships as mercs?
Regards.
SM http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
In 17th century the all powerful ships-of-the-line appeared too.
I´m still dissapointed about the no admirals thingie http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif
No Drake, Raleigh, de Ruyter, Blake, Heyn.
GAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/ceasarno.gif
I just thought that you might want to have a look at the Dragon editor in the Alchemist lab.
Regards.
Why not making all those navy commanders simply generals?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Also I was thinkig; do we need so many religious agents as in vanilla MTW-VI? I think we could just leave some few most important, and turn others into some purely diplomatic units or what not. I came to such conclusion because:
- I think it's too easy (for a human player) to convert infidel population, and the AI doesn't do it very well;
- Religious buildings work better in converting infidel population;
- Bishops, Cardinals etc. are not really represented in an appropriate way (they should be capable of becoming governors and ministers alike, and not travel around the map all the time).
- We could make some new agents units instead.
Ideas (not necessarily all mine, but so to have it all in one place):
Papal Legate
(for Papacy only) using bishop slot, with very little influence on religion,
Protestant Preacher
I think should affect both religion and zeal, for Protestants only obviously, fairly cheap,
Jesuit
Replacing Cardinal. Only for catholics, but should need some special building, affects religion a little, fairly expensive
Mufti
For Muslims, replacing Grand Inquisitor, little impact on religion, great on zeal, expensive
What do you think?
Regards,
EC
/////Sweden - replaces Novgorod;/////
Dalkarlar (early) - infantry;
dalkarlar means Men from dalarna
The king gustav vasa got help from this region of sweden when he revolted against the danish king christian II in early 16th century.
Svennar elite infantry and cavalry for 'early';
Hakkapeliitta cavalry,
Finnish Hakkapeliitta infantry - pikemen +
- muskets
Finnish were usually very poorly trained and led but were very brave soldiers.
Smalands cavalry - 'Smålands ryttare' (smålands cavalry also a region in sweden)
Swedish Cuirassiers - 'Upplands ryttare' means Upplans cavalry (uppland is also a region in sweden)
Svenska just means swedish imo you dont need it.
Swedish Pikemen, 'Svenska Pikenerare'
Swedish Musketeers, 'Svenska musköter'
Swedish Dragoons, 'Svenska Dragoner'
Swedish 'commanded' musketeers - smaller units, the same textures though.
Svenska kommanderade musketörer
Drabanterna (early, high) Elite unit (best of the best), the kings bodyguard - infantry,
right the kings bodyguard also created in 1520 by Gustav Vasa changed name on numerous occations right now it is called
Livgardet LG, called the yellow regiment during the 30 years war, basically a guards regiment.
Kungliga Maj:ts garde och livregemente - bodyguards for 'late' - infantry,
same regiment but at a later date (1700) led by Karl XII
Now we have something pretty important that i think should be added:
IN 1680 the swedish King karl XI was given absolute power over sweden now we could afford to keep a
large standing army. this army was very modern and very organized and the soldiers were called
'karoliner' after karl XI.
infantry, -karolinskt infanteri
common soldiers well trained and armed with flinlock carbines and flintlock pistols
cavalry, -karolinska ryttare
elite cavalry well disciplined
guards, -karolinska livgardet
the guard units of the karoline army, elite troops stationed in the capitol always on full alert
I know it sounds kinda of like the polish horse but this was the time sweden was at its peak of power and was very powerful compared to its neighbour being beaten only at the end by russia,denmark and poland
http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11108365/karolin2.gif
bring beaten only by those? did they share borders with anyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Ok, only messing. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...evalcheers.gif
Seriously now:
I think those late units should be REALLY expensive because:
a.- You can afford them in the end anyway.
b.- The swedish army was fairly small, you simply cant enlist as many men in Sweden/Finland as you can in Russia.
About EC´s suggestions:
The Grand Inquisitor should be removed except, maybe for Spain and Portugal. And I think the Papal legate should have an influence on happiness as well (like the spies in vanilla MTW), because the governors tried to be friendly with them.
Are the Russians going to have any religious agents? I am just wondering because noone mentioned it before.
Hello. I just got back from Barnes and Nobles, and bought a book titled The Renaissance At War. It is a very complete book on the period of this mod. If any of you need me to look some things up, let me know, I will be on and off the forums all night, fiancee and I doing some all night house cleaning.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
That's the list of translated names for Russian units. (UPDATED)
Cavalry:
Noble cavalry - Znat (because noble meant cavalryman that time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif ). Plur. - Znat, sing. - Boyarin. All periods.
Common Russian cavalry - Pomestnaya Konnitsa. Plur. - Pomestnaya Konnitsa, sing. - Pomestniy Konnik. All periods.
Mounted Streltsy - Stremenniye Streltsy. Plur. - Stremenniye Streltsy, sing. - Stremennoy Strelets. High and Late periods.
Ryndas (Tsar's bodyguards) - Ryndy. Plur.- Ryndy, sing. - Rynda. All periods.
Dragoons - Draguny. Plur. - Draguny, sing. - Dragun. Late period.
Raiters - Reytary. Plur. - Reytary, sing. - Reytar. Late period.
Russian cossacks on state service - Gorodoviye Kazaki (you may name Russian cossacks Kazaki and Ukrainian cossacks Kozaki http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif , this is the difference between modern Russian and Ukrainian languages). Plur. - Gorodoviye Kazaki, sing. - Gorodovoy Kazak. High and Late periods.
Russian hussars - Gusary. Plur. - Gusary, sing. - Gusar. Late period. In Novgorod only. I'm not sure this unit is necessary, because there was just small number of not typical Russian force.
Lancers (copy of polish pancerni) - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki (not sure about this name). Plur. - Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki, sing. - Stremennoy Kopeyshchik. Late period. In Chernigov only. And I'm also not sure this unit is necessary.
Infantry:
Russian harquebusers - Pishchalshchiki. Plur. - Pishchalshchiki, sing. - Pishchalshchik. Early period.
Russian militia - Opolcheniye. Plur. - Opolcheniye, sing. - Opolchenets. All periods.
Russian riflemen - Streltsy. Plur. - Streltsy, sing. - Strelets. High and Late periods.
Western style musketeers - Soldaty. Plur. - Soldaty, sing. - Soldat. Late period.
Western style pikemen - Kopeyshchiki. Plur. - Kopeyshchiki, sing. - Kopeyshchik. Late period.
I'll give descriptions for all units soon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
So, perhaps it would be more sensible not to include them in Russian army roster? Especially that they are typically Polish units, and probably some of the best Polish faction can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
ThijsP
Please translate names of Dutch units - plural and singular forms.
UNits :
Dutch Pikemen,
Dutch Musketeers,
Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers,
We need translation of words 'pikemen', 'musketers' and 'mounted arquebusiers' in Dutch - adjective 'dutch' shouldn't be translated.
Thank You.
SwordsMaster
we can give them a +3 command admiral title.
This way their ground forces will be more powerful, not navy.
cheaper for Holland, England,
EC tried, and explained it is impossible to give multiple faction advantages for several units.
BTW, can we include ships as mercs?
No.
GENERALLY
This time I really edited techtree, please check.
Moldavian and Wallachian units are going to be revised - help from Romania.
here is the link Dead Moroz -
http://www.megalink.net/~dschorr/RusArm17.html
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
EC - they were a copy of Husaria, but they were not HUsaria, but much, much worse ( never charged pikemen for example) - still very interesting and powerful unit, useful against enemy cavalry.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
The copied units were quite numerous - for example it seems that russian pancerni were more numerous than russian dragoons.
Anyway I like the idea and I'm going to use it at least for myself.
About religious agents - I've already implemented Protestant Preacher and Jesuits - and it was quite a long time ago.
Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
ok, byt we can make them region-dependant. So the frigates built in Maasdam or Amsterdam will get +1 valour.As will get the ones built in Mercia per example. The same for all the rest of the ships.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
After all the Genoese would still build great ships no matter who ruled them, right?
About the admiral title (admiraal for Thijsp http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif ) you are right, but they will need good generals anyway because they are VERY small on the map, and will be quite slow in producing a significative army.
They were worse, but I think we should have a good insight in why they were worse:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
a.- Their training might be worse
b.- Their armour was unlikely to be worse (they probably either copied the polish one, or adopted the boyar heavy armor)
c.- Their horses were unlikely to be worse (although their charge could have a -2 speed compared to the polish one due to worse drilling)
c.- The lances and weapons were unlikely to be worse either.
So I think they should have the same fear causing features except for the pikemen. The same charge value,-1 morale, the same attack, -1 to defence, same armor, -2 to speed galloping and charging, and no elite status.
Only my idea tho.
I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
My main point was to have fewer religious agents and have them influencing religion much less than in vanilla game. Just an idea. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-anxious.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
I think their horses were very much likely to be worse than those used by Husaria. By worse I mean slightly slower, less resilient, and not as well trained. Husaria's horses were bred only in Poland and never sold abroad. They were too precious to sell them in the first place, not only abroad but at all. Though particular specimens could differ a bit from one another, they were all trained in the same way and were mostly cross-breds of Polish horses and Turkish breeds. I find it hard to believe the Russians would go so far as to copy that unique type of horse, that was developed and improved for more than a century.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
Well, ok, make them slower, but I am saying that the russians had access to german and turkish horses aswell, so... Anyway, I leave that in your hands, as you for sure know more than I do about the subject.
here is a good link abouth the 30 years war with images of gens and kings for each faction. Hope it helps.
I don't think the Finnish units in the Swedish army differed much from the Swedish, german, etc units, but they were known as hakkapeliittas because of their battle cry... but I'm not sure if they should be a unit on their own. Of course, they could be a cheaper unit, and would so make up a bigger portion of the army, because historically more finns had to serve in the army (in relation to their population) than swedes. Also nearly half of the Swedish cavalry was finnish (around the time of the 30 year war, IIRC).. But its up to you what to make of it.
unit-sing-pluralQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Dutch pikemen - Piekenier - Piekeniers
Dutch musketeers - Musketier - Musketiers
Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers - Bereden Harquebusier - Bereden Harquebusiers
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
SwordsMaster, very good link that about the 3o years war. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../ceasaryes.gif
I've already made something like 50-70 portraits apart from those at my pages. I've also made 6 new battle flags: English, Portuguese, Crimean, Turkish, Georgian and there is also that Swedish flag I made before. There are some new info pics for units too. I'll try to upload all that tonight or tomorrow for you to see.
One more word about the portraits; though I didn't want to do so before it seems that we just have to use black-and-white pics (there are too few color pics around). Only that I colorize those non-color pics so they look rather fine, once again - you'll see. So if you have any black-and-white or monochrome pics of generals, princes, kings etc., they can be used too (well after they are made color).
Regards,
EC
i have to ask how we will handle germany ? many small states?
And will there be a new campaign map? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif
good work all=)
I think half of it is going to be Habsburg, and the rest will be the 2-3 biggest territories. Or rebels. But I dont really like the rebel option. The swiss should be a faction, and then Brandemburg, Bohemia, and a couple more duchies should be fine. All with practically the same unit roster.
1. For now we have Switzerland, Austria, Bavaria and Brandenburg, but I'd rather have more German factions so not to leave any German regions rebel. The current map makes it hard to include some of the factions there should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
2. The first release will most probably use the map we have now. Making the new one would be a complicated and long process, but it'd be certainly great to have a new, better campmap.
Regards,
EC
Hey, simultaneous posts
BTW, about the map, couldn´t we use the Med Mod one?
just wondering as it seems to be quite a bit more detailed than the vanilla one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-lost.gif
I've gathered a few Swedish names, thrown in a few german and finnish ones (only 1-2) to make it more realistic for the time period, and voilá:
first names
Gustaf
Nils
Johan
Erik
Carl
Fredrik
August
Gunnar
Adolf
Alfred
Anders
Birger
Bjarne
Björn
Hans
Henrik
Jan
Jarl
Bengt
Göran
Knut
Krister
Kristian
Lars
Leif
Magnus
Mathias
Martin
Mikael
Olof
Olav
Pehr
Paul
Simon
Stefan
Sven
Sten
Thomas
Tor
Valdemar
Benjamin
Bertil
Claus
Daniel
Claes
Otto
Jacob
Mårten
Jens
Larens
Tore
Tomas
Eskel
Clemen
Staffan
Mans
Mons
Ingwar
Edgard
Daan
Bernt
Engelbert
Eugen
Helge
Peder
Jöns
Lennart
Sigmund
Sigleif
Valter
Torsten
Josef
Ivar
Ernst
Einar
Axel
Svante
Jonas
Matts
Johannes
Last names
Eriksson
Johansson
Gustafsson
Andersson
Carlsson
Svensson
Bonde
Nilsson
Thorsson
Persson
Hendricksson
Torkelsson
Strahl
Ståhl
Rosbrack
Hartman
Stockman
Fisk
Stålkofta
Jonsson
Björnsson
Gunnarsson
Leithoine
Korckoinen
Ekman
Forsberg
Torstensson
Ascholin
Jansson
Widmark
Smidh
Finne
Knecht
Weimer
Osterberg
Reimann
Osterholm
Holm
Asplund
Lund
Sköld
Holdt
Grubb
Wallroth
Adolfsson
Gyllenstierna
Armfelt
Elgenstierna
Palmstierna
Dahl
Oxenstierna
Gyllenberg
Stensson
Granbom
Lagerfelt
Ljunggren
Lund
Mattsson
Store
Princess names
Christina
Ulrika
Eleonora
Margareta
Birgitta
Katrina
Brita
Sofia
Carolina
Charlotta
Maria
Lucia
Elisabeth
Magdalena
Emilia
Augusta
Anna
Ingrid
Gunilla
Karin
Louise
Catherine
About Bohemia, well I don't think so. It was either Hungarian (early period) or Austrian Habsburg's (high and late).Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
I'm afraid we can't use Med Mod campmap, and for reasons I really wouldn't like to discuss here...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Simultaneous posts? Ah, well, it happends. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
Very good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif But you could have posted it in that research thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
wow everyone is busy posting now, yes i agree the map we are using now is very limited how hard would it be to make a new one? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-dizzy2.gif
Very.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
azid
I need singular forms as well.
I think it si possible to add the units You proposed.
SwordsMaster
Are the Russians going to have any religious agents? I am just wondering because noone mentioned it before.
Some kind of orthodox priest.
DEAD MOROZ
Please check these names
Kormovye Draguny ( Dragun)or Komarits Draguny ( Dragun)
Inozemniy Reytary - Inozemniy Reytar
Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Mushketery
Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Kopeyshchiki
Think that Russians must have a kind of harquebusers in Early period. I'll give you the name and description later. Also I'll give descriptions for other units soon.
They should use mercenary arquebusiers I believe - firearms were quite rare at that time in eastern Europe ( Poland, Hungary and so on).
ABOUT AGENTS - the list
in early - only weak bishops ( catholic and orthodox) and protestant preachers ( impressive conversion rating).
in high - Counter-reformation begins - so Jesuits, but onlyfor certain factions - 'tolerant' factions won't be able to produce any religious agents at all ( converting only using buildings, fortunatelly).
SO
Catholic Bishop - small conversion power, not for every faction, though.
Orthodox Priest - quite high conv. power, affects zeal as well.
Protestant Preacher - high conv. power, affects zeal.
Jesuit - high conv. power, affects zeal.
Papal Legate - Pope only, with very little influence on religion.
Inquisitor - Spain and Portugal only ( ?).
About Muslim I don't know.
TO ALL - about factions - the list is on page 7 with the units for the mod. Firs read, second write.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
I edited the list of Russian units - changed some names and dates, added harquebusers for Early era. Check up my post on page 14.
@Dead Moroz:Woulnt it better be kopeyniki?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
@Hetman, Im happy enough with the religious agents.
Maybe. But kopeyshchiki is more widespread word, at least in modern Russian language.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
@Dead Moroz, ok, no prob http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
Suggestion: Make almos all of the units region-specific. Because the most of the armies recruited not only in their homelands but abroad as well, or will that be depictedby the merc resource?
Kormovye Draguny and Komarits Draguny are just common Dragoons (Draguny - see my list of Russian units). Kormovye means that they own land for service in army. Komarits is the name of town Komarits in the south of Russia where that squad of Dragoons lived.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Inozemniye Reytary are just Reiters (Reytary). Inozemniye means western style here. Every Reiters in Russia were Inozemniye (so this word is not necessary).
Gorodovye means garrison in town. It's not a kind of troops but just a place of service.
Datochnye Mushketery and Datochnye Kopeyshchiki are just Mushketery (or Soldaty) and Kopeyshchiki. Datochnye means they were conscripted. Soldaty and Kopeyshchiki were Western style infantry in Russia. They were recruited by two ways: 1 - hired for payment; 2 - conscripted from among countryside and maybe town population.
Vybrannye were guardsmen. Vybrannye means chosen (axemen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif ). They were not an unique type of troops. There were just squads of common Streltsy, Soldaty, Draguny, etc. consisted of better soldiers and garrisoned in Moscow (the capital of Russia that time). It's not necessary to make a separate unit for Vybrannye (Guard). The role of Vybrannye may play units with higher morale, defense, attack, etc. statistics they got after successful battles.
suggestion here: If you build certain building that increases valor or something, you could name the units to Vybranniye to reflect that they were slightly superior, but that is a more esthetic issue.
Another suggestion: We could call all the units built as mercenaries Inozemnye because they were not russian, but mercenaries, and so were strangers which is what the word means.
BTW, Soldat does not mean musketeer or any other type of troop, but any man that served for pay (i.e. professional) it comes from the french Sould (pay) which comes from latin solidus that was the type of coin the soldiers were paid with.
BTW, the word wasn´t used till the Louis XIV reforms of the french army.
musketman - musketerare same in singular and plural
pikeman - pikenerare same in singular and plural
horseman - ryttare from german Reitar (SP?) same in singular and plural
cavalry - kavalleri
Do you really need it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Just chose (vybrat) the best squads among your troops and merge them into one army guarding your king or/and capital. So these units will be Vybranniye (Chosen). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif
No No No Russian Inozemniye troops were not mercenaries... Almost not. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif Almost because at the beginning they were mercenaries consisted of foreign people. But soon Russians (not mercenaries) became the backbone of these troops, foreigner were officers only. These squads was called Inozemniye (verbatim foreign) not because they consisted of mercenaries, but because they tried to copy western armament and tactics. I suspect that in Russia of XVII century the term Western meant rather Polish then German, English, French, etc.. Russian Inozemniye troops most likely looked like Polish dragoons, musketeers, pikemen, etc. I'll try to find out more info about this question.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
As I know, Soltad/Soldaty was the name of infantry units of Inozemniye troops - musketeers and pikemen. Maybe unofficial name. Maybe it appeared only in the end of XVII century. No doubt this name has French or Latin origins. That troops were a copy of western troops and they were the first Russian troops who served for pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Soldier was any man who served for money, so I guess the russians just adopted the french term from the germans or poles as they adopted their tactics.
About the chosen, you are possibly right, there isn´t much point.
About the mercs, well I know you are right, but I still kinda like the idea that that way you can express their foreign procedence.
BTW, as far as I know there were very little inozemniy troops in Russia til Peter the great. some Royal guards, and 2 polka of musketeers, and a similar number of cavalry. That was all.
I've thought it too before. But now I have better information. The number of inozemniy cavalry was not very big, much lesser then number of pomestnaya cavalry (common Russian cavalry). But the number of inozemniy infantry was really great; if I understood right, in the middle of 17 century it was much more then number of streltsy (traditional Russian infantry).Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I uploaded some of the files I made to My Pages, so you can see them now. I added battle flags (6) and portraits (115). The new info pics I'll add later.
Regards,
EC
Russian Husaria 'Gusary'- the stats
speed - normal 10/20/18 - they had good horses, but not so resilient as polish, but cheaper I believe.
armour 4 - I've read they had less armour than the Polish Husaria.
charge 9, attack 3 ( not so skilled, worse weaponry), +2 attacking cavalry ( same lances, not sure they had wings though), the same defence, morale 6 ( Husaria has 8) because not use loose formation so often, fighting in 1 rank ( not so skilled to use deep and packed knee-to-knee formation).
formation - FORMED, but not so narrow as the polish unit.
Less expensive, but will require 2 years to build, in Novgorod only.
SwordsMaster
Well, ok, make them slower, but I am saying that the russians had access to german and turkish horses aswell,
German horses were too heavy to use them in Husaria.
wilpuri
.. But its up to you what to make of it.
I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
@EC, You included Richelieu with the Venetians.
About Charles V portraits, use the one where he is wearing armor for a general, and the other one for Charles himself. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif We get 2 for the price of 1.
Richelieu is where he is because I don't yet have enough French portraits and still I wanted to put all I have there. And after Richelieu, those are Genoese Doges, not Venetians, which are a bit further. There is a sign saying GENOESE after Richelieu's portrait. Don't actually pay too much attention where are some certain portraits as I simply wanted to present as much of them on relatively small space, so they aren't perfectly divided into specific factions (there are eg. some Spanish portraits among those I called Dutch etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I was thinking, it may be difficult to have complete different sets of portraits for every and each faction (about 60-100 per one category - general etc.). What's more, some of the portraits for Genoese, Spanish, Venetians, Dutch, look very much alike. What would you say for having a certain amount of common portraits, obviously with some reasonable number of faction-specific portraits (for kings, princes, princesses, some most important generals etc.)? It doesn't have to be that way, but more portraits are needed. And I really mean more (some couple of hundreds).
Regards,
EC
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-oops.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Yes, I thought abput that too, Maybe leave the kings and princes faction-specific and put everything else in a general pool, except the turks, because they are kinda obvious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif .Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I´ll try to find more portraits anyway. Anyhing from that timeframe will serve, right?
there you can probably get 2-3 pics.
You can get Velazquez himself and a couple of ladies from here
maybe another pic can be extracted from here
another pic here
Velazquez himself here
the pope Inocencio
another picture here
and another one here
the prince Ferdinand here
The queen Isabel de Borbon there
another picture
some paintings by Titian can be found here
another pic here
a gentleman
another Pope here
Thats it for now. If there is any problem give me a shout http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska MusketerareQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Well, he's wearing armor in all three pics. Let's say the one where he's wearing a helmet is 1, next to the right is 2, and so the next one is 3. So now which should be used for a general and which one for His Highness Emperor Carlos V Habsburg?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
And about the links to portraits you've provided, there are some usable pics there, thanks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
Regards,
EC
Hakkapeliittas were the Finnish cavalry of the Swedish army. Gustaf II Adolf significantly developed the tactics and training of the army, making the Swedish army possibly the most efficient during the 30 Years War. The light cavalry had an important mobile role in the tactics. As the voluntary Finnish cavalry had many of the better horses (in contrast to smaller Swedish horses) and able men it became a feared elite force during the 17th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
-from one of my schoolbooks
I think number 1 should be the gen, and number 3 the Emperor and just get rid of numb 2.
When can we expect a release of this mod? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
I know that, but I've also read, that some of the Finnish infantry was called Hakkapeliittas as well because they used the same battle cry. Not much difference between the infantry conscripted in Sweden at the time, so I don't know if a separate unit for Finnish infantry will be needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
2 Eastside Character
Nice pic for description of Polish Hussars:
http://www.soldiers-russia.com/new_s...europe/po1.JPG
UNITS
There are going to be five categories of units in the mod.
1. For everybody, everywhere
- very few units - some types of urban militia and peasant-like units
example - Town militia in the unit list.
2. Regional units in certain provinces for everybody
e.g. Moldavian Cavalry
3. Regional units, but for certain factions only.
e.g. most of Cossack units
4. Mercenaries - recruitable in provinces with this trade good
e.g. Mercenary Arquebusiers
5. National units in homelands
- most of units in the mod
+ of cource 'normal' mercenaries possible to hire in INN.
This way some provinces are going to be very important even though they
do not offer high income, good provincional titles or else.
Dead Moroz
I used the names from the webside to which You got the link.
if I understood right, in the middle of 17 century it was much more then number of streltsy (traditional Russian infantry).
----In the 1663 the Russian field army against Poland consisted of:
- 42 Infantry regiments - 24,377 men
- 8 Dragoon regiments - 9,334
- 22 Reiter regiments - 18,795
- 2 Lancer regiments - 1,185
- 1 Hussars - 757------------- these are only the numbers of 'western' russian units, and it was after crushing defeats in 1660.
----About russian arquebusiers - they can have the unit, but will not be able to build mercenary arquebusiers or any other mercenary 'western' units from 'early'.
I UPDATED UNIT LIST (PAGE 7) ADDING NATIONAL NAMES - PLEASE CHECK.
For now I added two types of Russian conscripts, but maybe I'll remove
'chosen' units.
BTW - I asked the guy who wrote the description of XVIIth century russian army and according to him russian husaria was using 'wings' as well.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
This pic may be useful for description of nomad warriors:
1. Adygei (Northern Caucasia)
2. Nogay
3. Kalmyk (Volga basin)
http://www.ruslan-com.ru/zotov/turk_5.jpg
Hetman
Why is Georgia in a list of the factions, which won't be in the first release? :)
Regards, Datka
nope maybe if we have a lot of room over for more varied units but youre right it really isnt necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-curtain.gif shhh im coming for you
what else can I do o mighty leaders?
OK I can delete this Finnish infantry.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I will ask Lords for permission for some of their graphics -
necessary for flintlock musket armed units.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
We do not have enough info about Georgia - check XVI-XVII research - You'll see what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Of course this could be changed - maybe I will use Golden Horde slot for Georgia.
Please post office titles, names, unit descriptions and I'll see.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
There is already an info pic made for this unit. Thanks for your intentions though.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I have another thing you could help with - portraits for Russians. If you find any (can be monochrome or black-and-white), let me know.
Regards,
EC
Just a quick unit idea if your doing england, the border reivers harsh and sturdy men from the north were seen by english and french and some italian comtemparies as the best light cavalry in western europe on par with Albanian stradiots. If you need pictures of these i've posted a few in the monastery.
www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/ PolArtCostumeWeapons.htm
That link might help with clothing and other things of the period but you might have seen it already
great link,BKB, thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
About unit graphics;
I was thinking of what unit graphics should I make now. If I get myself together I should finish graphics for Archeros unit tomorrow. Works on pikemen graphics are also at advanced stage. Earlier, I was going to make graphics usable for units like Pomestnaya Kavaleriya, Pancerni, Ottoman Sipahi and such, meaning eastern cavalry, but now I think that perhaps it'd be good to make graphics for raiters first (there is going to be quite a few raiter units in this mod as I can observe). You might have already noticed I'm more focused on cavalry graphics, but that's how it is now. You may also think it's strange I ask you that, but I simply can't decide myself and want to do something new in this matter (meaning unit graphics). My question to you is, what exactly should such raiter graphics should look like. Could you provide some good examples for generic raiter uniform? Thanks in advance.
Regards,
EC
Are you talking about reiters EC? I'll try to get some good pica for ya http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
Yes, reiters. I wasn't sure about the spelling. Thanks BKB http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Regards,
EC
I've already added Georgia, but without office titles, names and so on it's not going to be very accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Second - the faction is quite boring at this moment, can You post more ideas for units ( maybe an archer unit) for this faction.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-2thumbsup.gif