Mafia IV: Night of the Living Mafia [Concluded]

Sowing discontent and disunity.

And some of you actually suspect Ignoramus above him? Bravo.

Sasski seems the most sucpious due to him acussing everyone. He jumped on Ignoramas for basicly no reason, other then the fact that he voted for Saskii. Would trying to pull attention away from your self be as sucpious as bandwagoning Saskii?

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Vote: Csar

Quote:

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Admit it, you only voted me because I voted you. You post quite a lot without saying much, trying to create the image of having a presence without putting yourself out there?

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Not intention of bandwagoning, but I just really agree to that. (As I said before, btw)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Destroyer of Hope

Sasaki seems the most sucpious due to him acussing everyone. He jumped on Ignoramas for basicly no reason, other then the fact that he voted for Sasaki.

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I corrected the misspelled sasaki ~;)

Anyway, Ig voted Csar. with few reasoning, and just after sasaki did. Sasaki voted for him because Ig was bandwagoning. Which is a good reason.

Sasaki just said that he voted for Csar "in jest". If that's a good reason for voting for someone, then we'll never get the right person.

Unvote: Csar
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

I Vote: Ice. This feud with Disco is great cover for being in the mafia.

It seems to make sense that the mafia would vote for people who abstained It normally indicates a player who is trying to be thoughtful and not kill innocent villagers-and thus someone who is unlikely to get bandwagoned, and must be removed more directly.

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We need to lynch either Discovery or Ice. Just for the simple fact that they will do this every round and its the perfect cover. To say that this is a waste of a vote is ridiculous, as they have exactly the same probability of being a mafia as everyone else.

On the toss of a coin.

Vote: Discovery

Vote: Ice

Got to get rid of one of them and Ice was the one who first came to my mind.

My, this game is going to take up a lot my time if it keeps going like this :dizzy2:

No that that's a bad thing of course ~D

Sasaki made a point of the fact that the undead could still post and that killing 'active' users would be a bad idea. However, people who were killed often lose interest in the game and post less, Silver Rusher is probably the only big exception to that rule. So i really don't have a clue as to why they killed the people they killed, perhaps a general dislike for lurkers ? Or fear that something the other people have posted would lead us to them ?


Okay: my current list of suspects

Ice & Disco : because one of them just needs killing
Sasaki: for being way to eager, although i do believe he's really just trying to make this a good game
Leef ericson: what's his interest in the Ice & Disco feud ?
Csar: he's been acting kind of funny, and is very defensive.

I have to look at this a little deeper, I'll return to the thread later to cast my vote, as I'm too unsure right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice

Oh please. Disco always votes for me, it's time for me to return the favor. This hardly pins me as a mafia.

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That wasn't what I said. We had to get rid of one of you, for the reasons Sasaki outlined, and I mentally flipped a coin. Sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

My, this game is going to take up a lot my time if it keeps going like this :dizzy2:

No that that's a bad thing of course ~D

Sasaki made a point of the fact that the undead could still post and that killing 'active' users would be a bad idea. However, people who were killed often lose interest in the game and post less, Silver Rusher is probably the only big exception to that rule. So i really don't have a clue as to why they killed the people they killed, perhaps a general dislike for lurkers ? Or fear that something the other people have posted would lead us to them ?


Okay: my current list of suspects

Ice & Disco : because one of them just needs killing
Sasaki: for being way to eager, although i do believe he's really just trying to make this a good game
Leef ericson: what's his interest in the Ice & Disco feud ?
Csar: he's been acting kind of funny, and is very defensive.

I have to look at this a little deeper, I'll return to the thread later to cast my vote, as I'm too unsure right now.

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You might want to add Kommodus to the list. He got in on the feud for I don't know why. He never went to UofM at Ann Arbor and the evidence he used against me last round seems a bit iffy. May be worth looking into.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

That was the first round. You didn't vote in the tiebreaker.

No worries, though. This god is more benevolent than those in other games... :hide:

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Pray excuse me, as I am but a simple novice with no experience in previous mafia games. I should follow things more regularly. :bow:

Sasaki is acting vway too suspiciously. He loves to point out why others are the mafia, creating a bandwagon, then acts annoyed that others are following his lead.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

I really think we are making a big mistake voting for Sasaki here. I've noticed a trend in the past few mafia games where the most active posters often receive the most suspicion. But the irony of it all is that the mafia tend to not be active, because the less they put out there the less chance there is of them giving out a valuable clue or attracting attention. I think we should look carefully at who was bandwagoning the first few rounds because they are more likely to be in the mafia. However, I do agree that we must get rid of either Ice or Disco because we can't take the chance. Vote: Discovery1

That does sound reasonable Cowhead, but then again the mafia may just allow the survivor (ie Ice or Disco) to live - to put suspicion on them. Why waste a kill on an already suspicious character ? Therefore, I actually suspect at least one of them to survive for quite some time, unless of course we lynch them both.

Anyhow, I'm going with the flow on this one. It does seem like a good strategy to lynch either Discovery or Ice. I'm going to vote Discovery.

:balloon2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cowhead418

I really think we are making a big mistake voting for Sasaki here. I've noticed a trend in the past few mafia games where the most active posters often receive the most suspicion. But the irony of it all is that the mafia tend to not be active, because the less they put out there the less chance there is of them giving out a valuable clue or attracting attention.

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In Mini-Mafia, Crazed Rabbit (mafia) was active, telling the people to talk a lot about who they should execute. In The Godfather, both Sasaki Kojiro and GeneralHankerchief were active, directing the peoples votes whereever they wanted. In Sasaki's mafia, Sigurd (mafia) was making huuuge posts when the game was half dead. Orb (thing) also was very active towards the end of UltraWar's The Thing game.

And as for receiving the most suspicion, Crazed Rabbit attracted no suspicion, neither did Sasaki (except a bit from BKS towards the end). GH, Orb and Sigurd got some but not enough to lynch. The people is these games followed your misconception too, and where did it get them? Exactly.

I have some interesting evidence which the townspeople of this game may be interested to see, on the other hand, which may change their general concensus as to who the mafia really is/isn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

I have some interesting evidence which the townspeople of this game may be interested to see, on the other hand, which may change their general concensus as to who the mafia really is/isn't.

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Okay, I think we'd like to know.

:balloon2:

After the next kills are posted, Dg. Just wait.

Reenkmaestro is not able to debase himself to the abject levels of fingerpointing.

He abstains, courteously... :bow:

Edit: It is interesting that Silver Rusher and Dutch_guy have been private messaging quite a bit. I can vouch that Silver has private messaged at least twice in the past 10 minutes, and Dutch_guy at least once.

This is not enough by any stretch to kick two members out of the Fan Club. It is however, enough to raise an eyebrow, and inquire further.

I do beseech the private messagers: why not make things public?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

That wasn't what I said. We had to get rid of one of you, for the reasons Sasaki outlined, and I mentally flipped a coin. Sorry.

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Then kill Discovery1. I shouldn't be punished for finally standing up for myself. I mean the guy votes for me in games im not even playing. Get rid of him!

lolz.

It's interesting to see who voted me, and your reasons for doing so. Some of you are showing a remarkably poor understanding of the game. Spreading discord and disunity is good for the town. As I said before, take a look at the godfather (where I only made a couple posts per turn which apparently meets Silvers criteria for very active). The town was united. There was no discord. The town failed. You never once brought suspicion on Cowhead or Gorebag who were so obviously suspicious. You were content to be quiet. Lots of posting is what this game needs, and in my experience the only way to do that is accuse people. Accusing someone is almost gauranteed to get a response.

Also this is so ironic I just have to point it out:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ignoramus

Sasaki just said that he voted for Csar "in jest". If that's a good reason for voting for someone, then we'll never get the right person.

Vote:Sasaki

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Consider this before you vote for me:

What are the odds, given last game, that the detective investigated me? If he did and got a guilty result you'll find out sooner or later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

lolz.

It's interesting to see who voted me, and your reasons for doing so. Some of you are showing a remarkably poor understanding of the game. Spreading discord and disunity is good for the town. As I said before, take a look at the godfather (where I only made a couple posts per turn which apparently meets Silvers criteria for very active). The town was united. There was no discord. The town failed. You never once brought suspicion on Cowhead or Gorebag who were so obviously suspicious. You were content to be quiet. Lots of posting is what this game needs, and in my experience the only way to do that is accuse people. Accusing someone is almost gauranteed to get a response.

Also this is so ironic I just have to point it out:


Consider this before you vote for me:

What are the odds, given last game, that the detective investigated me? If he did and got a guilty result you'll find out sooner or later.

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Alright, I'll trust you, considering what Cowhead said, maybe it's better to wait several rounds before deciding who might be guilty.
Unvote: Sasaki
I abstain for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

(where I only made a couple posts per turn which apparently meets Silvers criteria for very active)

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Top 5 posters in The Godfather:

1. Silver Rusher 66
2. GeneralHankerchief 28
3. Sasaki Kojiro 26
4. Drisos 22
5. doc_bean 19

By this game's standards, not very active at all. By my game's standards, very active indeed. It's a shame people didn't take so much of an interest, maybe they take more next time.

Vote: Leet Eriksson

For supporting the Ice-Disco fight, there were othersq doing the same, put that's the way the dice rolls...

The only real threat to the mafia is the detective. Right now the main objective for the mafia is to find and get rid of the detective. The real detective would probably be a little reluctant to participate as he would not want to lynch the innocent. This might be why Myrdraal and EMFM were targeted.

Considering GH making the write-ups based on the mafia private messaging just the method, we will not get any help there. This leaves only what the mafia might be posting during the day. Staying silent leaves no clues.
What have you to say, The Spartan?

Vote:The Spartan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

Top 5 posters in The Godfather:

1. Silver Rusher 66
2. GeneralHankerchief 28
3. Sasaki Kojiro 26
4. Drisos 22
5. doc_bean 19

By this game's standards, not very active at all. By my game's standards, very active indeed. It's a shame people didn't take so much of an interest, maybe they take more next time.

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Drisos and doc are almost as active as the mafia and cowhead and gorebag aren't on the list. This is actually evidence against frequent posting meaning mafia.

Also, I'm very active by default. Don't you remember Mafia III?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

The only real threat to the mafia is the detective. Right now the main objective for the mafia is to find and get rid of the detective. The real detective would probably be a little reluctant to participate as he would not want to lynch the innocent. This might be why Myrdraal and EMFM were targeted.

Considering GH making the write-ups based on the mafia private messaging just the method, we will not get any help there. This leaves only what the mafia might be posting during the day. Staying silent leaves no clues.
What have you to say, The Spartan?

Vote:The Spartan

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Ah, Sigurd Sigurd Sigurd. Now you are making me suspect you. Your second post this game (not counting the deleted one).

Here's your first post.

In both of these posts you make a plausible sounding argument and vote someone who hasn't been under suspicion. This seems remarkably like deliberate non-bandwagoning. It seems like you are acting. You remain quiet while not lurking, you vote without bandwagoning in the slightest, you provide carefully constructed reasons so that no one can say you are voting without reason.

Suspicious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

Vote: Leet Eriksson

For supporting the Ice-Disco fight, there were othersq doing the same, put that's the way the dice rolls...

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The Disco Party shall fight on.

LONG LIVE DISCO

When we are done , either by dying or defeating the ice party, we shall DISCO :guitarist: :drummer: :medievalcheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Drisos and doc are almost as active as the mafia and cowhead and gorebag aren't on the list. This is actually evidence against frequent posting meaning mafia.

Also, I'm very active by default. Don't you remember Mafia III?

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Well, with 4 mafiosi it is unnecessary for all to be active, especially when (as you put it yourself) there is no discord.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Also, I'm very active by default. Don't you remember Mafia III?

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That's true. Sasaki has been this active in all games - no matter his role. I'm pretty sure the detective (if he lasts a few turns at least) investigated him. (and me, btw) If sasaki stays alive and no detective steps up we can always lynch him in the endgame. right now, he's too precious doing 'detective work' for the townspeople.

Btw, I'm starting to feel weird towards Leet Eriksson... like others said: why are you so intrested in Ice and Disco... last game sasaki was 'mafia' and continuously was 'intrested' in people resulting in a lot of bandwagoning and innocent lynching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Ah, Sigurd Sigurd Sigurd. Now you are making me suspect you. Your second post this game (not counting the deleted one).

In both of these posts you make a plausible sounding argument and vote someone who hasn't been under suspicion. This seems remarkably like deliberate non-bandwagoning. It seems like you are acting. You remain quiet while not lurking, you vote without bandwagoning in the slightest, you provide carefully constructed reasons so that no one can say you are voting without reason.

Suspicious.

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Ah, but I am merely trying to add to what people have already said here. If this is suspicious, so be it.
What we should avoid at all cost in this game is players not participating in the discussion. I believe my success in your game was to kill off the usual good investigators. If all participate it would be difficult for the mafia to win.
Therefore; the main objective for us townies should be to get all active.

The post I deleted: In a moment of not thinking I wanted to test out a new signature.
http://www.bf2player.com/sig/73561432-934.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

Ah, but I am merely trying to add to what people have already said here. If this is suspicious, so be it.
What we should avoid at all cost in this game is players not participating in the discussion. I believe my success in your game was to kill off the usual good investigators. If all participate it would be difficult for the mafia to win.
Therefore; the main objective for us townies should be to get all active.

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And how have you been encouraging discussion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Ah, Sigurd Sigurd Sigurd. Now you are making me suspect you. Your second post this game (not counting the deleted one).

Here's your first post.

In both of these posts you make a plausible sounding argument and vote someone who hasn't been under suspicion. This seems remarkably like deliberate non-bandwagoning. It seems like you are acting. You remain quiet while not lurking, you vote without bandwagoning in the slightest, you provide carefully constructed reasons so that no one can say you are voting without reason.

Suspicious.

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Now, he's doing exactly like you said you wanted people to act, you think that is suspicious ? You're contradicting yourself.

Suspicious :laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

Now, he's doing exactly like you said you wanted people to act, you think that is suspicious ? You're contradicting yourself.

Suspicious :laugh4:

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Nooooo I said it seems like he's pretending to act like a townie should act, which is something a mafioso would do.

Quote:

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It's interesting to see who voted me, and your reasons for doing so. Some of you are showing a remarkably poor understanding of the game. Spreading discord and disunity is good for the town. As I said before, take a look at the godfather (where I only made a couple posts per turn which apparently meets Silvers criteria for very active). The town was united. There was no discord. The town failed. You never once brought suspicion on Cowhead or Gorebag who were so obviously suspicious. You were content to be quiet. Lots of posting is what this game needs, and in my experience the only way to do that is accuse people. Accusing someone is almost gauranteed to get a response.

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I'll give you another chance. I'm still suspicious but you could be useful for the town latter.

On the other hand I agree lets kill off the feud.

Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: Discovery1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Destroyer of Hope

I'll give you another chance. I'm still suspicious but you could be useful for the town latter.

On the other hand I agree lets kill off the feud.

Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: Discovery1

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Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: Disco

Like DoH said we need to get rid of the feud. It's the perfect cover for one of the mafioso.

What had happened to cause such a feud in the Frontroom? Chief of Police Beirut wondered if the Kingdom of Peace and Love wasn't so peaceful and loving after all. First people start getting killed off every day and now a feud threatens to rip the place apart. Over half the votes cast were for the main participants of the feud, discovery1 and Ice.

Beirut braced himself for the reaction when he read who was to be executed.

"Ok, you have decided that... Disco is guilty."

Half the crowd cheered. Half the crowd booed. Disco's eyes shot daggers at Ice as he was dragged to the execution platform. Ice, victorious, just smirked. As Disco reached the platform, he began to speak.

"Okay, you know what, I may die, but I WILL HAVE MY VENGEANCE! Because Ice, and all those people who voted with him, will soon feel the wrath of the CHIEF! And at the end of the day, Ann Arbor will be nuked and the Illini will reign supreme! And then you will all rue the day that you crossed Discovery1 and the Chief! Die Ice die Ice die Ice di-"

He was cut off as Beirut, annoyed, force-fed Disco the poison. Disco dropped mid-sentence.

Beirut turned back to the crowd. "Well gentlemen, that's it. Go home."

Here is the vote tally for Session 2:
discovery1: 7 (Ice, Sir Moody, Divine Wind, Cowhead418, Dutch_guy, Destroyer of Hope, Csar) :skull:
Ice: 4 (discovery1, Leet Eriksson, Big King Sanctaphrax, AggonyDuck)
Sasaki Kojiro: 3 (Crazed Rabbit, Ignoramus, King Henry V)
Leet Eriksson: 2 (doc_bean, UltraWar)
Ignoramus: 2 (Sasaki Kojiro, Lemur)
The Spartan: 1 (Sigurd Fafnesbane)
Csar: 1 (Drisos)

Abstained: 2 (Zalmoxis, Reenk Roink)
Didn't vote: 5 (The Spartan, Orb, Masy, Kommodus, Byzantine Mercenary)

~~~~~~~
Still alive:
Sasaki Kojiro
UltraWar
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Dutch_guy
The Spartan
Orb
Sir Moody
Csar
King Henry V
Ignoramus
Reenk Roink
Crazed Rabbit
Ice
Zalmoxis
Destroyer of Hope
Drisos
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Divine Wind
Cowhead418
Kommodus
AggonyDuck
Lemur
Leet Eriksson
Byzantine Mercenary

Killed:
Silver Rusher
Tiberius
Evil Maniac From Mars
Myrddraal

Executed:
Kagemusha
discovery1

Does anyone else find it strange that Spartan hasn't voted or posted since he joined? He is usually very active is he not? Just thought I would point that out.

R.I.P Disco

WE SHALL CARRY ON THE ANTI-ICE CRUSADE!!

Here is an advance vote for the next day you punks:

ICE

I don't suppose me agreeing to end the feud would have done any good would it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

And how have you been encouraging discussion?

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Maybe I haven't been as active as I should, but I got Ultrawar talking didn't I?
Voting for someone usually get them talking. The Spartan seems to be taking some PT though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by discovery1

I don't suppose me agreeing to end the feud would have done any good would it?

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I'll accept a truce for next game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

R.I.P Disco

WE SHALL CARRY ON THE ANTI-ICE CRUSADE!!

Here is an advance vote for the next day you punks:

ICE

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I have to say...if you continue with this you will probably get lynched.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Csar

Does anyone else find it strange that Spartan hasn't voted or posted since he joined? He is usually very active is he not? Just thought I would point that out.

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Could be that he's the detective, or could be that he's gone a few days, who knows?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zalmoxis

Could be that he's the detective, or could be that he's gone a few days, who knows?

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He's been on today I checked right after I posted that. I was just making an observation cause he's usually really active.

Just a heads-up, the kills will be posted a little late because I will be out all day tomorrow (Sunday).

Probably around 1 AM for you GMTers, 8 PM for the ESTers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I have to say...if you continue with this you will probably get lynched.

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You can't intimidate me!!

DEATH TO ICE

Well, I was going to wait until after the next kills but they will be a little late, so:

SASAKI KOJIRO IS GUILTY.

Quick note: Please make sure you have read and understood everything written in this post before making a judgement.

My suspicions of Sasaki began when he abandoned his logical accusations of Drisos to vote for DoH, after Drisos had already been bandwagoned, just because DoH posted. :inquisitive: The reasoning for this being that DoH is never active, despite voting well in every round during his life in The Godfather, a game in which Sasaki was probably the most active participant. :inquisitive: When this was pointed out, he answered:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

He was in The Godfather? No way.

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before quickly changing the subject. It was around this time that Myrddraal, seeing my suspicions of Sasaki, PM'd me with a plan that could hopefully trick Sasaki into killing him if he was a mafioso. He started with a PM to Sasaki saying he was convinced of his innocence, before PMing him again with a 'plan' to PM certain people each round, claiming to be the detective to them. Now, by Sasaki Kojiro's own logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...4&postcount=89) this means it is very likely Myrddraal is the detective, right? Especially when he says things like these:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

As I posted in the thread, I'm tending towards thinking Drisos is innocent. From the chat Csar sounds very innocent, but then again, basing stuff on peoples attitudes in chat may be very naive so I'm trying not to let that affect me.

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Showing Sasaki he may have investigated Drisos and Csar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Anyway the reason I'm contacting you is to ask you a question: can you think of a reason the detective would contact someone he hadn't investigated yet?

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Back to Sasaki's own logic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I'd like to contact one person every other round claiming to be the detective, and see if one of those rounds I get killed. Using the chance to kill the detective as bait.

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Of course, an umbrella is put in to make sure Sasaki doesn't think this is too obvious a move:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

So the mafia probably wouldn't fall for something as simple as that, so the pm I send would imply that I've contacted several people (to give the mafia cover should they wish to kill me). I'm thinking of something like this:

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The trap is baited. Does it work?

Perfectly, in fact. Myrddraal is killed next round. Even at this point though, I wasn't too sure. There was still the possibility of a coincidence.

But no, Sasaki eventually managed to finish off the case against himself by posting this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Consider this before you vote for me:

What are the odds, given last game, that the detective investigated me? If he did and got a guilty result you'll find out sooner or later.

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Take him away, boys.

If you want to see Myrddraal's full PM to me detailing his plan, just PM me and ask.

EDIT: By the way, thanks to Tiberius for creating the reasoning that got me suspicious of him in the first place and Myrddraal for creating the evidence against him. The MVFJA has done well.

Boys and girls. Us MVFJA don't want to be accused of sexism now, do we?

Well Sasaki what do you have to say for yourself?

That doesn't follow Silver.

Anyone who can read would have unvoted Drisos after his defence of himself. That's a no-brainer. I don't remember a single post by DoH in the Godfather, he can't have posted anything significant and I didn't think on it furthur. Crazed Rabbit didn't either as you'd note. A significant change in posting behavior is an excellent reason to vote someone. I flippantly dismissed your charge to indicate that it was weak. You really suggest that I abandoned my vote on Drisos (saving his life) to give the first vote on someone with logic I knew to be false? Why? You've never answered that question.

As for Myddraal:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I'm going to take the risk of contacting you early. I think you're innocent. Why?

Because if you were mafia, I think you would certainly claim to be monitoring pm's as you did. But I don't think you would have actually bothered. The fact that you knew he was pm'ing econ (which I can confirm since I was testing with him) shows that you actually were monitoring the pms.

I really don't have any experience of mafia games to go on, but I don't think even the devilish Sasaki Kojiro would go into that depth were he mafia. :grin:

I may be making a massive mistake, but hey, you win some you loose some.


I'm a villager. I have nothing to prove it, take it or leave it as you will.

As I posted in the thread, I'm tending towards thinking Drisos is innocent. From the chat Csar sounds very innocent, but then again, basing stuff on peoples attitudes in chat may be very naive so I'm trying not to let that affect me.

Anyway the reason I'm contacting you is to ask you a question: can you think of a reason the detective would contact someone he hadn't investigated yet?

I'm trying to think of a way to use myself as bait. Since I'm not the detective (again, only my word to proove it) I'm expendible if you like. I'd like to contact one person every other round claiming to be the detective, and see if one of those rounds I get killed. Using the chance to kill the detective as bait.

So the mafia probably wouldn't fall for something as simple as that, so the pm I send would imply that I've contacted several people (to give the mafia cover should they wish to kill me). I'm thinking of something like this:

"Hello Sasaki,

I'm the detective. I investigated you last turn and since I think GH hasn't included any false results for the detective, I feel confident enough to contact you (even though the thread title 'night of the living mafia' makes me suspicious there may be more to this game than he claims).

I've decided to PM the (x) people I've investigated this turn to see if we can co-ordinate our actions (like masons in Sasaki's game). I think the more information we share, the more powerful the villagers will be.

Anyway, I'll tip you off if you vote for an innocent.

ttyl
Myrddraal"


However, re-reading my own ideas, it sounds so unbelievable that no half-wit would fall for it. I think I'm wasting my time. If you have any better ideas, you probably don't want to reveal them to me, remember, I might be mafia :wink:

Dave

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I'm going to take the risk of contacting you early. I think you're innocent. Why?

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I'm innocent (didn't you see my custom title?) but it's not a risk. If I were mafia and you thought I was innocent I wouldn't be likely to kill you now would I :p

Perhaps that was your plan :p

Quote:

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As I posted in the thread, I'm tending towards thinking Drisos is innocent. From the chat Csar sounds very innocent, but then again, basing stuff on peoples attitudes in chat may be very naive so I'm trying not to let that affect me.

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I think Drisos is innocent as well. It's interesting to see those who continue voting for him.

As for Csar, I always think of the mafia as clever masterminds and that doesn't fit Csar. Mind you it didn't fit Gertgregoor in Mafia III either, I never suspected him.

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Anyway the reason I'm contacting you is to ask you a question: can you think of a reason the detective would contact someone he hadn't investigated yet?

I'm trying to think of a way to use myself as bait. Since I'm not the detective (again, only my word to proove it) I'm expendible if you like. I'd like to contact one person every other round claiming to be the detective, and see if one of those rounds I get killed. Using the chance to kill the detective as bait.

So the mafia probably wouldn't fall for something as simple as that, so the pm I send would imply that I've contacted several people (to give the mafia cover should they wish to kill me). I'm thinking of something like this:

"Hello Sasaki,

I'm the detective. I investigated you last turn and since I think GH hasn't included any false results for the detective, I feel confident enough to contact you (even though the thread title 'night of the living mafia' makes me suspicious there may be more to this game than he claims).

I've decided to PM the (x) people I've investigated this turn to see if we can co-ordinate our actions (like masons in Sasaki's game). I think the more information we share, the more powerful the villagers will be.

Anyway, I'll tip you off if you vote for an innocent.

ttyl
Myrddraal"


However, re-reading my own ideas, it sounds so unbelievable that no half-wit would fall for it. I think I'm wasting my time. If you have any better ideas, you probably don't want to reveal them to me, remember, I might be mafia :wink:

Dave

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I like your idea but agree you are going about it in entirely the wrong way. For one thing GH wouldn't change the rules around, we all know that.

Now, something like posting this in the thread:

"Perhaps it would be a good idea if we provided suggestions as to who the detective should investigate?"

Might lead the mafia to believe you are the detective, especially if they were paying attention to my argument against Drisos. You'd certainly accomplish your goal of bait, but you wouldn't learn anything about who the mafia are.

Perhaps you could try pm'ing certain people and simply asking them if they found so-and-so suspicious (so-and-so being someone you're "sure" isn't mafia). This could also make them believe you are the detective.

Sasaki

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

but you wouldn't learn anything about who the mafia are.

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Exactly, the false info I give out needs to be controlled. I need to know that only so-and-so suspects me as detective. The more I look at it, the more of a long shot is seems.

I think pms without full out revelation are the only way of doing it, and it's a risky business. What if the mafia want me dead anyway? It would lead to a false conclusion on my part.

The alternative is to give a reason for trust in a pm to someone, then say:

"I think I'm going to try to offer myself as bait to the mafia. I'll pretend to be the detective in a pm to Sasaki asking him for advice. If I die next round, then we know that Sasaki is mafia"

If I'd contacted the mafia, they might kill me the next round to frame you.

Of course that would be gambling even more on your innocence :sweatdrop:



Of course, maybe this was my plan all along and you're the person I'm testing :evilgrin:

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I guess it comes down to whether you think I'm a moron or not.

The detective Wouldn't try a baiting plan like Mydrals. Why would he risk his own life when he has so much to offer the village?

Since it's obvious Myrddraal isn't the detective, why on earth would I kill him, especially after:

Quote:

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"I think I'm going to try to offer myself as bait to the mafia. I'll pretend to be the detective in a pm to Sasaki asking him for advice. If I die next round, then we know that Sasaki is mafia"

Of course, maybe this was my plan all along and you're the person I'm testing :evilgrin:

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I'd have to be an idiot to fall for either of these "traps" silver and myrddraal set.

Surely Tiberius, as a former detective, you wouldn't try and bait someone into killing you?

It's the only way you can even try to defend yourself. If Myrddral hadn't died, then you knew that you would be nailed as you would be shown as trying not to give any clues. It was your only way out, except Silver is too good at this.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

It's the only way you can even try to defend yourself. If Myrddral hadn't died, then you knew that you would be nailed as you would be shown as trying not to give any clues. It was your only way out, except Silver is too good at this.

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What? No seriously I don't know what that 2nd sentance means. I'm guilty because I killed Myrddraal but if I hadn't I would be just as guilty? By the simple act of PM'ing me he proved me guilty?

You didn't even respond to my post.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Since it's obvious Myrddraal isn't the detective, why on earth would I kill him, especially after:

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It doesn't matter whether you think Myrddraal is the detective or not, the risk is still there. The risk that he is the detective and he could be about to investigate you to make sure that you are innocent. If I were in your position I would have though "OK, I need to kill the detective. Now, I have no leads other than the PM Myrddraal just sent me. I am not sure whether this definitely makes him the detective but allowing a possible detective to live when the risk of him investigating me is so huge it would be the biggest blunder I could possibly have made not to kill him."

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Why would he risk his own life when he has so much to offer the village?

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If Myrddraal was convinced of your innocence, he would have had thought it a risk anyway (and when he PM'd me it did sound like he was fairly convinced, just so you know).

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Anyone who can read would have unvoted Drisos after his defence of himself. That's a no-brainer. I don't remember a single post by DoH in the Godfather, he can't have posted anything significant and I didn't think on it furthur. Crazed Rabbit didn't either as you'd note. A significant change in posting behavior is an excellent reason to vote someone. I flippantly dismissed your charge to indicate that it was weak. You really suggest that I abandoned my vote on Drisos (saving his life) to give the first vote on someone with logic I knew to be false? Why? You've never answered that question.

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Sasaki, even if you really did believe that DoH wasn't in the Godfather, it was still very bad logic. You cannot defend the fact that you voted for DoH just because he posted.

Calling yourself an idiot won't stop people from voting for you, so I wouldn't bother.

This seems rather silly. What reason would Sasaki have for killing Myrdraal? Since the whole premise of his post was 'if anyone kills me after this, I'll know he's the mafia', killing him would appear to be the last thing that he would want to do. As for killing him because he might be the detective, why would he bother with this complicated deception if he was? He'd just investigate Sasaki.

Sorry, I don't buy this.

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

It doesn't matter whether you think Myrddraal is the detective or not, the risk is still there. The risk that he is the detective and he could be about to investigate you to make sure that you are innocent. If I were in your position I would have though "OK, I need to kill the detective. Now, I have no leads other than the PM Myrddraal just sent me. I am not sure whether this definitely makes him the detective but allowing a possible detective to live when the risk of him investigating me is so huge it would be the biggest blunder I could possibly have made not to kill him."

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Honestly if I were mafia in this game after the last, I would be very hard put with regards to the detective. That makes sense. Killing someone who thinks I'm innocent would be the last thing I would do. As well as, say, posting so much that everyone in the game is at least thinking of me and the detective has to at least consider investigating me.

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If Myrddraal was convinced of your innocence, he would have had thought it a risk anyway (and when he PM'd me it did sound like he was fairly convinced, just so you know).

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No, you misunderstand. From my point of view, reading his pm's, he was discussing baiting someone else. Someone whose innocence he wasn't convinced of. The detective wouldn't do that

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Sasaki, even if you really did believe that DoH wasn't in the Godfather, it was still very bad logic. You cannot defend the fact that you voted for DoH just because he posted.

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No it isn't. Someone who has no interest in the game suddenly becomes interested when they are selected mafioso. I suspect most of the people who don't participate only signed up on the hope of being selected. It is as I said an excellent reason.

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Calling yourself an idiot won't stop people from voting for you, so I wouldn't bother.

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Ah, but I'm saying I'm not an idiot.


Oh and to end with, I'd just like to examine Silver Rushers track record:

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Originally Posted by Mafia III (endgame)

Guys, I have been talking to Gert and AggonyDuck in the chat and I think they are both pretty well innocent. Everyone change your vote to Wonderland(NOT A VOTE)! Victory approaches!

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Originally Posted by Mafia III (endgame)

yeah, I can't remember why I accused Wonderland, guess I was doing some form of ghost bandwagoning. I don't think it's him either.

Weeeell I think I have been able to narrow down the suspects a bit and funnily enough, EMFM is the only one left.

Crazed Rabbit (good voting record)
SSNeoperestroika (very good voting record)
AggonyDuck (convinced me in various ways, could be guilty though)
evil_maniac from mars (no evidence would make me think he is innocent, he is also a historical guy and the kills have moved on from Thracian weaponry)
Lemur (I think I'm gonna say bad villager on this one)
Kommodus (also convinced me in various ways, voting record good, etc.)
Gertgregoor (also convinced me in various ways (his behavior seems good), could still be guilty)
Wonderland (I will take Crazed_Rabbits word for it, he seems innocent)

While none of this evidence, except in SSNeoperestroika's case, can make me sure that they are innocent, probably safest to go after EMFM this round.

Oh GAH I don't know. This is too difficult. If the remaining mafioso isn't EMFM I have to say good job to them, you really have confused me.

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Originally Posted by Mafia III (endgame)

It's either Wonderland or Evil_Maniac From Mars. I'm leaning more heavily on EMFM though. (NOT A VOTE)

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Well the plan had two parts, I offered Sasaki two reasons for killing me.

1. I might be the detective

2. If I'm not the detective, then he can easily frame someone by killing me.

The thing is, I PMd Sasaki saying I was going to carry out the 'plan', but I never did. I never PM'd anyone apart from Sasaki (and Silver but he was dead).

The idea of this plan was:

Sasaki get's given two reasons to kill me if he's mafia. I never carry out the plan ensuring that only Sasaki knows about it.

If I didn't die I would PM Sasaki after the next round saying I'd lost faith in him. If he was mafia, he would immediately suspect me of being detective and that I'd investigated him and he'd kill me off.

If I still didn't die after that I would be convinced of Sasaki's innocence, and I would actually carry out the plan I had suggested on other people, changing the bait from being a chance to kill the detective to being a chance to frame Sasaki.

Unfortunately I died before the plan could get that far. Sorry to have done that to you Sasaki, I was hoping I wouldn't be killed and your innocence would be proven to me.

I'm not convinced you're mafia, but it's a risk which the town can't afford to take. Sorry m8, but this game is bad for your character.

I urge you to vote Sasaki.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

This seems rather silly. What reason would Sasaki have for killing Myrdraal? Since the whole premise of his post was 'if anyone kills me after this, I'll know he's the mafia', killing him would appear to be the last thing that he would want to do.

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I think you misunderstood the PM.

The idea was for Myrddraal to be cooperating with Sasaki, finding other people. If you were in the mafia, your primary objective would be to kill the detective, right? If somebody PMs you with a bunch of stuff which makes it possible that they are the detective, why not kill them? You have no leads on anybody else.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

As for killing him because he might be the detective, why would he bother with this complicated deception if he was? He'd just investigate Sasaki.

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Because then it wouldn't necessarily be a deception.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Oh and to end with, I'd just like to examine Silver Rushers track record:

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I was wondering how long it would take before you did that.

A question to the MVFJA:

Is there any chance that your cunning plan leaked somewhere along the way? If a mafioso learned about your plan to test whether Sasaki was guilty or not, what would stop him from killing Myrdraal and thus framing Sasaki.



Now to the matter at hand though. We have two incidents here that may or may not be related. Firstly Myrdraal was PM'ing his "things" to Sasaki, and secondly Myrdraal died the following round. Is this just a freaky coincidence or is Sasaki guilty? There are three options that come to mind on what caused the death of Myrdraal:

1. A mafioso just killed Myrdraal on random and Sasaki/Myrdraal thingy is just a freaky coincidence.
2. Somehow the plan was leaked and a mafioso learned of the plan, and used it to frame Sasaki.
3. Sasaki is a mafioso and killed Myrdraal

I am personally not sure which is true here, but it is unlikely that this is just coincidental. Thus it might be likely that we have to lynch Sasaki, unless some convincing evidence comes forth.

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Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

A question to the MVFJA:

Is there any chance that your cunning plan leaked somewhere along the way? If a mafioso learned about your plan to test whether Sasaki was guilty or not, what would stop him from killing Myrdraal and thus framing Sasaki.



Now to the matter at hand though. We have two incidents here that may or may not be related. Firstly Myrdraal was PM'ing his "things" to Sasaki, and secondly Myrdraal died the following round. Is this just a freaky coincidence or is Sasaki guilty? There are three options that come to mind on what caused the death of Myrdraal:

1. A mafioso just killed Myrdraal on random and Sasaki/Myrdraal thingy is just a freaky coincidence.
2. Somehow the plan was leaked and a mafioso learned of the plan, and used it to frame Sasaki.
3. Sasaki is a mafioso and killed Myrdraal

I am personally not sure which is true here, but it is unlikely that this is just coincidental. Thus it might be likely that we have to lynch Sasaki, unless some convincing evidence comes forth.

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Well, I didn't tell anyone about it and I don't think anyone else did. Number 1 is a likely option but Sasaki's post about the detective coming forth if he is guilty fits in perfectly. Of course, it would still be a reasonable thing to say if he is innocent, but it would make the coincidence even bigger and less likely.

Quote:

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1. A mafioso just killed Myrdraal on random and Sasaki/Myrdraal thingy is just a freaky coincidence.
2. Somehow the plan was leaked and a mafioso learned of the plan, and used it to frame Sasaki.
3. Sasaki is a mafioso and killed Myrdraal

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Option 2 didn't happen. The only remaining options are 1 and 3. Personally I don't know which is true, but like I said: It's a risk we cannot take.

Unless something pressing happens and we really need to vote someone else, I think we won't take the risc, Myd. ~;)

After carefully reading, I'm not convinced of either option 1 or 3. it would be a big coincedence if sasaki is not mafia.. but is is possible of course.

however.. I'm feeling suspicious towards people not reacting to this. it's likely for mafia to keep out of real discussion as it is dangerous for them.

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Originally Posted by Drisos

Unless something pressing happens and we really need to vote someone else, I think we won't take the risc, Myd. ~;)

After carefully reading, I'm not convinced of either option 1 or 3. it would be a big coincedence if sasaki is not mafia.. but is is possible of course.

however.. I'm feeling suspicious towards people not reacting to this. it's likely for mafia to keep out of real discussion as it is dangerous for them.

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What else is there?

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

What else is there?

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I wouldn't know really.. it is of course possible the mafia makes a big mistake in posting, pm'ing or posting times so we want to eliminate someone else first. or the detective stepping up. but that's not likely as dead people can talk as well. ~;)

Perhaps the mafia killed Myrdraall for some other reason? There's a lot of pages to trawl through to check, but maybe it was for something else. Im sure the next killings will reveal something we can work with.

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

I was wondering how long it would take before you did that.

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It is rather significant isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

1. I might be the detective

2. If I'm not the detective, then he can easily frame someone by killing me.

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1. As I showed earlier, your pm's don't make you seem like the detective in the slightest, in fact quite the opposite. In addition, you profess to believe in my innocence, another reason not to kill you.

2. Frame someone? AggonyDuck is the only person I can recall who has been lynched on a frame and that was ages ago. Why would I care about framing someone day 2? It's pretty much a given that we're going to lynch a townie.

I'm sorry, neither of those are good reasons. OTOH, you were making very well reasoned, thoughtful posts, and had abstained in the voting. It's not like you weren't a good choice for the mafia anyway.

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It's a risk we cannot take.

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Yes you can. There is a detective, the real detective will be keeping quiet so as not to draw the mafia's attention, he's probably investigated me already and he certainly will after this round. Also, speculation from the dead is allowed.

The discussion I've been generating is invaluable to the town and I'm sure I can provide some usefull insight as well. You'll get neither if you lynch me.


btw, the real mafia is quietly lurking and ROFL.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

btw, the real mafia is quietly lurking and ROFL.

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If it's not you, then yes.

Stop laughing!

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Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

A question to the MVFJA:

Is there any chance that your cunning plan leaked somewhere along the way?

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Not a chance.

1) Sasaki hasn't, as he would have said so by now if he did to add to his defence.
2) Silver hasn't, as he wants to win and wants the MVFJA to be a success. Also, to get his revenge on the mafia.
3) Myrdd isn't mafia and wouldn't want to risk his life for.. well.. nothing, as it would be, if the plan leaked.
4) Me and EMFM probably weren't told about it. I know for sure I wasn't.

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As I showed earlier, your pm's don't make you seem like the detective in the slightest, in fact quite the opposite. In addition, you profess to believe in my innocence, another reason not to kill you.

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This, to me, is the main reason I'm not going to vote for Sasaki this round. I see very little in those PMs that would make me think Myr was the detective, if I was in Sasaki's shoes.

I say we just implore the real detective to investigate Sasaki.

Tiberius, why don't you answer my posts?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki

You'll get neither if you lynch me.

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Why would that be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Why would that be?

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I'm spiteful ~;p

You're inbox is full btw.

I think we are going to have to face it this entire thing is blown way up and stright into the mafias hands

if Sasaki isnt mafia then they will be doing theyre best to frame him for the rest of the game so basically i think we are going to HAVE to execute Sas if only to stop the mafia from using him to hide

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

I think we are going to have to face it this entire thing is blown way up and stright into the mafias hands

if Sasaki isnt mafia then they will be doing theyre best to frame him for the rest of the game so basically i think we are going to HAVE to execute Sas if only to stop the mafia from using him to hide

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But them using me to hide will give us clues as to who they are.

I vote Sasaki Kojiro why?

well i see it this way, Sasaki is doing most of the talking and working here so it seems to me most important that we be sure that what he says has no bias, if he is inocent im sure that wont stop him posting if he dies and we will be sure that what he says is not a trick and therefore more reliable, so the vote would be win win almost, i dont think there is any real why Sasaki Kojiro might be any more likely to be mafia then anyone else but hes equally likely to be mafia as anyone else

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

I vote Sasaki Kojiro why?

well i see it this way, Sasaki is doing most of the talking and working here so it seems to me most important that we be sure that what he says has no bias, if he is inocent im sure that wont stop him posting if he dies and we will be sure that what he says is not a trick and therefore more reliable, so the vote would be win win almost, i dont think there is any real why Sasaki Kojiro might be any more likely to be mafia then anyone else but hes equally likely to be mafia as anyone else

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If I'm lynched I won't be confirmed innocent.

And voting hasn't started yet.

Sasaki I saw what you wrote about me and it wasn't nice.:no:

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Originally Posted by Csar

Sasaki I saw what you wrote about me and it wasn't nice.:no:

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Oh come now, it's not that insulting. Sorry if I offended though m8.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Oh come now, it's not that insulting. Sorry if I offended though m8.

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No problem that post was a joke. Was just thinking on the current events of the game. Interesting to say the least.:book:

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

4) Me and EMFM probably weren't told about it. I know for sure I wasn't.

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I wasn't until today.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

If I'm lynched I won't be confirmed innocent.

And voting hasn't started yet.

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whoops i missed the lynching thought voting was still on, my bad