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So it seems no news on the SecuRom front? I figured that I would just play regular M2TW and ignore Kingdoms until that was resolved, but I find myself discouraged. I feel let down by CA on this, and have no desire to play even the old game. So I think I'm done with CA products. :no:
Oh my! This discussion is still going on?!:no:
Well, it's nice to keep the thread on the first page as an FYI for the newcomers. This is important information imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill
Well it doesn't look as though the retailers are too keen on informing their customers whats on the disk.
Ok, So I have been keeping a small eye on this issue since about just after it began and I've had a read on Wikipedia about Securom. :juggle2:
I'm one of those people who doesnt really know a lot about computers - just enough to get around, and I am very guilty of just putting the disc into the disc drive and off I go. SO what I am going to ask may sound silly.
Has anybody had any actual issues with Securom arise since installing the Kingdoms product? (I don;t just mean what every one has been talking about on this thread, I mean has anyone computers' stopped working or stuff like that?)
Also does Securom block burning of other products on to discs from your computer? My wife burns a lot of music (legally of course) onto CD's from her itunes (ipod program) and if Securom got in the way of that, my life wouldnt be worth living!
Again sorry about sounding a little :dizzy2:
Galain_Ironhide, I don't think you'll find evidence of that kind of damage, and it shouldn't interfere with burning CD's. It's more about the potential for future problems -- possible backdoors for hackers, hassles with being flagged by future anti-virus or anti-malware programs you may install, and so on -- because you won't be able to remove the SecureRom files, ever, short of formatting the disk and reinstalling Windows.
That's what many of us are uncomfortable with, and it's why I haven't bought Kingdoms yet. I'm just not that hot for the expansion, with other games out there to play (and still having fun with M2TW), that I want to risk this level of intrusion on my computer. If Sega/CA released a clean uninstall version of Kingdoms (or a separate utility), I'd buy Kingdoms in a heartbeat. So far, they've been totally silent about this. So they don't get my money. And they won't get it for Empire either, if they follow this same path.
Anyway, you'll have to decide what your own comfort level is for this sort of intrusion, balanced against how much you want to play Kingdoms.
Thanks Zenicetus, you have pretty much answered what I wanted to know.
THe whole part about never being able to remove SecuRom from my computer alarms me. So I think Kingdoms might get a big miss from me.
:2thumbsup:
Ermm.. It would seem we might need to clarify a few things here.
Incorrect. Securom is well known to interfere with other types of copy protection, namely the Safedisc v2, 3, and 4 flavors. If you have older games that use these, there is a significant possibility that the owner will run into problems attempting to install and play the game. I have experienced this directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
Second, while Securom does not natively force PIO mode on one's system's optical drives, one will find with some research that quite often that dev/publisher Help/FAQ sections for people who are running into trouble reading the Securom-infested media will be advised to manually force PIO mode. Again this is not always going to be an issue for everyone, but if it does become one, be warned that extended use of an optical drive in PIO mode can cause excessive wear and damage as the drives are not designed to operate in this manner, this is part of the problem that Starforce creates. I should also mention that I personally have lost an optical drive to Starforce, as have more than a few others at the Org.
I can't respond to the comment about 'backdoors' in terms of Securom because I haven't researched it, but given Sony's track record, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. However, it's not too excessively hard to remove the registry keys and files that Securom leaves on the system. Google will turn up a few FAQs on how to do so, and I think there's one posted in this thread also. It does take a reasonable amount of technical knowhow and is not for the faint of heart, so be forewarned. Of course, ideally one wouldn't have to remove the Securom to begin with since hopefully one wouldn't infest their system with it. :sweatdrop:Quote:
It's more about the potential for future problems -- possible backdoors for hackers, hassles with being flagged by future anti-virus or anti-malware programs you may install, and so on -- because you won't be able to remove the SecureRom files, ever, short of formatting the disk and reinstalling Windows.
Erm, the core of the message here is true. The best thing for anyone to do is educate themselves on the issues at hand, and it often boils down to a calcuated risk. Do you really want the game that bad? Is it worth it? For many of us, the answer is no. If it is, are you willing to run the risk of the problems it stands a not-insigificant chance of causing for you? Many of us here would like to persuade others to boycott this based on the circumstances (myself included), but it boils down to an individual decision. If you're going to go about it, the least we can request and push for is that people make it an informed decision.Quote:
Anyway, you'll have to decide what your own comfort level is for this sort of intrusion, balanced against how much you want to play Kingdoms.
*bump*
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We're all outraged but wouldn't we please help keep the thread open? CA representatives declared that they do read the threads and evaluate the complaints. Similar threads have been locked before merely for the mention of the warez alternative so to speak.
:bow:
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Yep, that's why I started the thread with the "forum rules only" suffix, after the first one was shut down. So please avoid any reference to cracked games.
This is an important issue that's causing many of us to boycott Kingdoms unless CA/Sega does the right thing... the enterpretation of which varies, but for me, the minimum is removing the SecureRom garbage after I uninstall the game. I can live with it up to that point, but it's insane that I'd have to live with it after I uninstall the game.
At this point, the official silence has lasted long enough that we can probably assume what the answer is. But I'd like to hold out a little hope that they'd come through... if for no other reason than it will make many of us less wary about pre-ordering Empire. I'm definitely not doing that now, without knowing in advance what the CP method is.
What a bunch of :daisy:, I'm glad I haven't be offered Kingdoms for my birthday.
As it stands now, I won't buy any other TW game, plain and simple.
And here I was hoping video game companies would have gotten a clue after the failure that was Starforce...
As the above posters have stated, the thread has remained open because the posters have refrained from making comments about software piracy. Please keep it that way.
All I can say is I bought Kingdoms and I love it. I have had no problems. I also own Neverwinter Nights 2 so I guess this secu thing was already on my computer before I put Kingdoms on. I love the Total War games and will keep buying them. I do think they should patch Kingdoms though. I hope it happens.
wat a great say(daveybaby).... my wife had already send me my copy of mtw nd kngdoms(from philippines to nigeria), and now wid all this :daisy: i dnt know if i wuld be xcited or not... securom?wat... mins d money i earned for my overtymn wuld be wasted as i dnt know now if i wuld install dis wid my laptop!!!
well..... men it wuld take a lot of courage anyway if i wont try 2 install it cuz if nd wen those cds cums 2 my hand.. the hell wid securom.... CHARGE ND INSTALL!!!!!!
Again, I think it's important to emphasize that, as far as I am aware, there has not been a single reported problem as a result of installing Kingdoms. The debate in this thread is largely about boycotting the expansion due to the trend towards invasive and illegal copy protection, not due to potential harm to your system.
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Originally Posted by TinCow
With all due respect, that's a contradicting statement. Something potentially harmful is harmful, whether it has harmed yet or not. Also, not a single problem reported does not mean that not a single problem occurred: problems may not have been detected; may not have been associated with the malware; or may not have been reported.
It's like saying "I got the Chernobyl virus but my computer is intact because it's not April yet". :shrug:
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I have one game that uses this same version of SecureRom (Bioshock). I've already had to flag off that directory for my backup software, because it throws up a flag when I try to run it. That's my personal time that I have to burn, to deal with something that will be left behind by a stupid game. And those files will never go away unless I reformat my C: drive. If I buy Kingdoms and uninstall the game, those files will still be there, causing potential problems in the future. Who knows what might happen with the next anti-virus or anti-malware progam I install, that flags intrusive, hidden files like this? I've been burned once by Bioshock, I'm not going to be burned a second time by Kingdoms, which isn't even a full game like Bioshock, just a minor expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
TinCow, you really don't get it, do you? When did we get to the point where we uninstall a game, and the game doesn't completely uninstall, and that's suddenly "okay" with the gaming community?
How closely do you monitor invasive apps on your system?
Let's not lose sight of Sony's DRM history either. As best I can recall it was just over a year before people proved the link between 'XCP' and the sometimes severe problems with their machines. Kingdoms and this version of SecuRom are still very early in their life cycles, and there are a substantial number of reported problems with similar SecuRom installs from other games.
Problems which, of course, don't go away if you uninstall the game.
:egypt:
I own Bioshock, therefore I do get it. I have personally had problems with the Bioshock copy protection system and it was very annoying. I was simply trying to cool down some misinformation that seems to have popped up in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
And please... don't attempt to play me off as some kind of CA apologist on this. Anyone who has read this thread knows that I am very much opposed to SecuROM and have personally boycotted Kingdoms because of it.
Huh? I just bought Kingdom. Should I returned it? I am confused... let me read this long thread again...
Do you have Bioshock, Neverwinternights 2 or some other game with SecuRom? If you do, I would not worry about returning Kingdoms as apparently they will already have installed SecuRom on your computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyAnn
If you don't, it's up to you. But nothing I have read has given me any concern about SecuRom. :shrug:
Nor me. But some feel that it's an issue; I work under the assumption that I'd have reformatted before it became a problem, anyway :grin2: :shrug:
i suprised anyone cn be so unconcerned about somehting u dont have control over on your own pc. specially something that soemelse can take control over without your knowlege.
the fact that i use my pc for my personal finances just makes it impossible for me to even consider having securom on my pc.
also the fact that it can messup other games i buy in the future is a huge discentive for me. why would i compromise my pc knowingly in anyway? especially for something i have paid for legitimately. its just does not make sense.
I made a decision. I'll install it on my gaming computer, and be ready to reformat the disk if any supicion of malware pops up.
I'll trust my anti-virus/anti-spyware to do the job of alerting me of any thread.
Annie
i think thats where the problem comes in. since securom is not a virus anti-virus software will be programmed to ignore the hidden folder created by scurom. the ideal situation for anyone with malicious intent.
however if u have a seperate gaming pc i guess it doesnt really matter but since i dont have one it does.
After years of Sony treating customers badly, culminating with the CD rootkit, I decided to boycott Sony. No TVs, stereo equipment, DVD players, CDs, etc. I used to buy a lot of their stuff, but no longer. It's tough to keep track of everything, but I do give it a try. Since Sony probably gets a portion of each sale of SecuRom infested software, so sorry, no Kingdoms for me. Hopefully the combined "platinum edition" or whatever they decide to call it will be without it.
Well, yes. That's the core of the problem, outside of the issue of principles (which by the way I'm firmly on the go-to-hell-you-corporate-scums side, or more politely the Consumer's Rights/Privacy side). If you do not use your gaming rig for business purposes or e-mail that relates to said purposes, you run much less risk with SecuRom than someone who does, and if you love the title then Kingdoms is probably worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crpcarrot
If you check your credit card account everyday online with that computer though...I'd rather be wary. There are no reported problems as such, but considering the amount of traffic in the internet, the percentage of said traffic that is either spam or simply malicious, and the fact that these programs go on great lengths to avoid detection by your anti-virus and anti-spyware programs...
There are other potential problems as well -- I think someone mentioned a case earlier in this thread where his online game can't be played anymore and that he suspects Kingdoms' SecuRom to be behind it, but the poster never came back to report on more of his findings, so there is no conclusive evidence that it's at fault. Whacker also mentioned above that SecuRom conflicts with some SafeDisc versions, though since I never tested it myself I do not know if this particular version also does.
Now of course, I use Daemon Tools, so me and these kinds of programs have a rather stormy relationship. A lot of them seem to think that the only use of Daemon Tools is to read downloaded pirated copies of disk images... I sort of went screw them I do other things with the program and googled my way out.
Anyway, since I think I'll be able to get some extra money this month and is looking to buy M2TW; a question: Does the 1.3 patch really comes with parts of the SecuRom malware? If yes, are they "active" or just useless unimplemented code?
Hello sir. Securom v7, which is what's been in use for some time now, can and does cause conflicts with other software DRM methods, so yes, this will cause problems for certain games. Safedisc v2/3/4 is just one of a few that are known to conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
Well of course. Only dirty pirates and thieves use programs like p2p sharing and disc emulation!! They have absolutely NO redeeming value whatsoever and serve as nothing but tools for piracy! Geez, get with the times! :rolleyes:Quote:
Now of course, I use Daemon Tools, so me and these kinds of programs have a rather stormy relationship. A lot of them seem to think that the only use of Daemon Tools is to read downloaded pirated copies of disk images... I sort of went screw them I do other things with the program and googled my way out.
I *believe* that it installs Securom software, but can't be positive. I can state for a fact that it does install the "undeleteable" files and null registry keys, based on some testing a friend did.Quote:
Anyway, since I think I'll be able to get some extra money this month and is looking to buy M2TW; a question: Does the 1.3 patch really comes with parts of the SecuRom malware? If yes, are they "active" or just useless unimplemented code?
Ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
Thank you very much for your comments...I guess I'll have to put off getting M2TW for now then :/ If it's just SafeDisc I'm fine with, but I really don't like SecuRom. Just about the only undeleteable registry I'll willingly accept is the Mount & Blade key and other similar unobtrusive ones.
What's with adding a new copy-protection program on a patch anyway. :inquisitive:
Ive removed Securom with just 2 steps in 5 seconds...while Kingdoms is still working fine...dont ask me how i did it thats why god created google...
You can buy M2TW and just patch up to the last version 1.2 (assuming that's still available?), avoiding the 1.3 patch. As far as I know, 1.3 only adds multiplayer version compatibility with players who bought Kingdoms, and doesn't do anything at all to patch up or improve the original game. You can find mods that rebalance the 1.2 main game like Kingdoms, if you want that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
I still play the main campaign in M2TW without those mods, and without Kingdoms. That's a "clean" install, compared to what came later with the invasive DRM on the Kingdoms expansion.
The most satisfying thing is running Kingdoms without this DRM....Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
Ah, so that explains it -- may be the SecuRom addition is supposed to align M2TW vanilla with Kingdoms somehow? Hmm...I guess I'll reconsider buying M2TW after all (lol @ my own indecision). If the 1.3 patch is just multiplayer then I can do without it; I'm a single-player guy all the way so that doesn't matter in the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
Greetings!Check to see if Securom hasnt reinstalled by itself again...Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes
The key concern I have about Securom is:
a) Sony are offering a chargeable expansion of Securom to its customers which will by-pass their customers computer security system to gather data on the use of a copmuter for 'marketing purposes'.
b) The above feature is sold as a toolkit allowing Sony's customers to program their own criteria for gethering this data, which may also allow other executable packages to be imbedded in the code.
This means that even if we were willing to have our use of our PC monitored and analysed by legimate Sony customers we also have to consider the possibility that any of said customers could employ a rogue employee who will use Securom for their own ends, or that internal software security at Sony or any of its customers who buy the toolkit might be lax enough to allow the toolkit to leak out into the wider hacking community and become a vehicle for virus programmers and hackers.
Nope doest reistall Ive taken care of that...Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
some of you people make me sick.............have you not noticed the state of pc gaming this last year or so???games are being released with so many bugs that many are unplayerable.
i have just returned to playing M2TW because my old pc found it a struggle, now that i have a high end pc i can now play this everything maxed out, and i have to say it looks and playes fantastic.
Now what does this have to do with this thread....well due to games being jack sparrowed games developers are just throwing out un-optimised games without bothering to spend the time makeing them good.securom is not to stop the jack sparrows but to stop the casual player lending games to friends and using simple dvd copy software from copying the games.
i have never had any problems with securom i don't use daemon tools or anything like that so its never been a problem for me.
if you people keep going on about boycotting games , then in the end you will not have any games to boycott, i was looking farward to three new titles this year........kingdoms.............empire earth 3 and opposing fronts.
i only purchased kingdoms because the other two were nothing short of a rushed mess........many people like me own £1000s of pounds worth of pc hardware only to play crap pc games, the total war series is one of the exceptions that makes pc's worth the price............
so i say too you , go ahead and boycott because in the end when good game developers give it up for the console market you will have nothing left to boycott.
and one more thing........deamon tools .game jackal ..alchole 120.......are all legal but we all know they are used by jack sparrows.......so if securerom stops them working all well and good. just because you have legal software does not make it right. its legal to marry someone for his or her monet ,devorce them then gain half there wealth.........its legal but wrong.
i say anyone who uses that software are using it to pirate games.
i will be buying every expansion that comes from this series..i will always support a good company who makes great products...without them the pc as a gaming platform will go under.
Dear oh dear, where to start...
Do you not find that the whole idea of gamers spending their money to buy botched and half-baked games just for the sake of the industry self-perpetuating itself into worse and worse state (uff...) is a bit strange?
The money is there and will be, PC gaming marke is still big and I say that keeping companies releasing :daisy: games afloat just for the sake of the PC gaming market is a big misunderstanding. It's THEM who should strive to deliver US good products, not US begging THEM to give us anything, however terrible it turns out to be; that's how market works mate. Following your logic in a few years' time publishers won't even bother finishing games at all, cos people like yourself will buy them on principle.
Secondly - assuming that every gamer who uses daemon tools is a thief is like assuming that everyone who owns a gun is a potential murderer, or everyone who drives is a hazard on the road. Why don't we start imposing sanctions upon motorists just because they are a potential danger to our kids? Are you feeling ok mate? I have put substantial amounts of money into games and gaming gear over the years and I feel outraged to be treated like a kid by people who happily break the law themselves (SONY), I feel humiliated to be lectured to by people who don't respect me or the law.
OK, rant's over, sorry if it was a little long. 'spect
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First the EB2 board and then this. If weren't sure of CA guys' honesty, who have been honourable ORGahs ever since, I would suspect that somebody was encouraging them to play the fanboy and insult the fans. :no:
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Oh well so much ignorance I dont know where to begin:Quote:
Originally Posted by centurie
Kingdoms was cracked a day after release: 24 HOURS...read again 2 4 H O U R S
So Securom wont stop people that download this game EVER at least not until the net is tamed through harsh nazi-like laws...
Also sites hosting cracks are based in 0 IP law countries that the western state law enforcement CANNOT touch...
What Securom achieved? Is losing MORE customers while earning 0...
Ive removed Securom and enjoy Kingdoms have a nice day...
Edit - \/ \/ \/ I just saw what you were talking about in the other post. 'Wow' is the only thing I can really say to that. Sorry about jumping you like that marrow.
Oh, yeah, I know mate, no worries, I was addressing centurie who just grated on me a little is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
Ha ha I do actually have a sense of humour lol don't take me for a grim git mate! 'spect
@centurie
well it smakes me sick that it makes u sick that someone else might have a different opinion than yours
does that make any sense :dizzy2:
Slightly off topic - but what the £$*" is a "jack sparrow" & what does it mean?
It sounds a bit like something Dick Van Dyke would say in Mary Poppins!!
Henri
Pirate, I assume (it's a reference to the character from the Pirates of the Carribean movies)Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry707
Just popped by to see if SEGA or CA had chosen to do the right thing and provide an uninstaller. Seems not, so I will return to my boycott of TW games.:skull:
I enjoy Kingdoms without the Securom rootkit...learn to google...Quote:
Originally Posted by gardibolt
It's not productive to send a message to CA/Sega that we don't care if they use invasive DRM, because some players can figure out how to remove it. Not all players are going to want to go that far, or are comfortable doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes
The message we should be sending, is that we won't buy games with invasive DRM, or DRM that isn't uninstalled with the game, in the first place. No sale... no soup for you, unless you treat your customers with some respect. That's especially important with the new Empire game on the horizon. I suspect there are many here that won't be buying that game if they do what they did with Kingdoms.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
Very well said, completely agree.
Btw, mods, please don't use such posts as excuses to close this thread. :bow: Single posts, if deemed violating the forum rules, can be cleaned out of the well mannered thread, you know.
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Did I violate any rules? Because Ive removed an invasive rootkit that was compromising the finansial security of my bank account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre
Its also worth noting that under UK law this sort of software is probably illegal, either under the Data Protection Act (as it is designed to gather personal information without the subjects consent) or under the Human Rights Act (as it is an invasion of personal privacy).
Its probably not practical to try and sue the retailers for selling software without informing their customers of the existence of this software in the product. However, it is worth the cost of a telephone call to your local trading standards office just to flag the issue with them and hopefully prompt a government funded investigation into a breach of their own legislation.
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I did not say anything particularly about you Hellenes.
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I love rootkits, since they appeared my PC is a lot more stable. :2thumbsup:
I've been lurking through this thread for a while now, although I feel that it may be time to voice my opinion on SecuROM.
SecuROM is something I have had on my machine for six months. I must admit that I have had only one insignificant problem that may have been related to the system, but that isn't the point I wish to make, its more the fact that a item of software has existed on my machine for so long without my knowledge that frustrates me.
The first thing which alerted me to SecuROM on my machine was something I found in my registry when cleaning up R:TW. I had no idea what "SecuROM" was at the time, and, understanding everything else stored in my registry, I innocently decided to look into it.
After realising that I was "infected" with the software I decided to try and diagnose the games which contained it. Using ProtectionID, I found the games which had inserted the program into my system rather quickly - Caesar IV (Sierra) and The Settlers II 10th Anniversary Edition (Ubisoft).
I then decided to scour the EULAs of both of these games. I'm one of those people who is stupid enough to just flick past the EULA when it comes up during installation - I know I'm never going to break it in anyway, so I don't really see the point of wasting fifteen minutes upon it. Anyway, after reading through them, I was dismayed to find that neither of them told me that they were also installing SecuROM v7.2 on my machine.
I then un-installed both the games - I finished playing them weeks ago, so I didn't really need them any more. I did this hoping it would remove the system. Despite the fact that Kingdoms doesn't delete the files after un-installation, I was pleased to find that that these games did "politely" clean up after themselves.
For me, it wasn't the fact that SecuROM was what it was, it was its existence without my knowledge or consent. Don't get me wrong, I do dislike having intrusive software like SecuROM on my system, and it does discourage me from buying, but I do feel that the former factor, knowing what I'm getting, is more important when I buy any game.
Edit: I take what I said about the games cleaning up after themselves back - I've just found some SecuROM entries in my registry. I'm not very please about it, I must say.
God, I hate hate lawyers, I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. But you know what? When you need one nothing else will do.
The companies that bundle these non-security devices into their products should have F. Lee Baily knocking on their door. Actually, in the US the DoJ should be all over this. It isn't just a thing with games. If there are any lawyers reading these boards please contact me if you want to file a class action suit. I want to be part of it.
It is a good way for a young lawyer to get very wealthy and famous.
On a related note, I'd like to see companies be forced to stop placing install limits on legal copies of software. I replace my computer every 18 months. I have a hard drive that is dedicated to Windows and nothing else and format the drive and reinstall Windows every 6 months. (If you don't think this will improve stability and loading times you haven't tried it) I get tired of having to get a "special authorization code" from Bill & Melinda. :wall:
I am a lawyer, but I have no desire to get involved in class actions. Plus, you hate me.
I saw that one coming a mile away! :hide:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
"If the DRM is unfit, you must not buy it."
I have enough calls on my time that I have no desire to spend it researching and removing something that should not be there in the first place. It is much better to just not buy Kingdoms until it is released in a clean state.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes
You might want to go and tell them that, and join the .coms legions of whiners who swear on their computers screen that they will never buy another total war game but end up hanging around and annoying everybody and buying it anyway, then starting the cycle again. It dosnt really matter to me if CA and SEGA want to protect their games, even with all these other conspiracy theories about spyware and the like. It doesnt harm me or anyone else and when it does, CA will be hearing from a few people. Big style.
My:2cents:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperknickers
haha sorry but to me that sounds like leaving u wallet out in the street and saying
"ok if u r brave enough try and steal it, but be warned i will cause some big noise when u do"
obviously u r pretty confident that u PC and personal data is secure (unless of course you have nothing worth stealing)
i dont think anyone of us has a problem with CA "protecting their games" but unfortunately the only ones affected seem to be ppl like us who actually do pay for it.
Well if you live in the UK you may as well install Securom now, as all your personal data has already been given away to criminals by the government!
Sorry CK but I just want to correct you on the above point which seems to imply that the spyware functionality of SecuRom is somehow unproven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperknickers
In fact, there is no doubt that Securom has the potential to gather marketing information on behalf of its owner. If you visit www.securom.com and read through the optional features being sold to securom customers you will see that the ability to gather marketing data on the usage of the PC it has installed itself on is a key value added option which is being used to sell the product by Sony.
The actual wording of the sales pitch is as follows:
As you can see the n-CD option uses SecuRom to gather marketing information on behalf of its owner, but not only that it has the potential to do a lot more. for example it could detect everytime you insert a specific CD into you CD Drive and automatically link you to the owners website to inform your of their latest special offers, it could in theory monitor everytime you use the CD and charge you on a per play basis. It can allocate bonus points per play and then inform you of rewards you have earned through consistent customer loyalty. It could be used to promote new products by linking the user directly to a promotional website when they next insert the game CD into their PC, and offer them the chance to pre-order or buy.Quote:
n-CD Solutions
The n-CD concept is the next step towards 1 : 1 marketing. It connects existing, offline digital media directly with specific websites on the internet. By pairing a "Secure Web Link" together with an unique identification number (PID™), only "original CDs" are granted access to specific websites and to specific premium content designed for your disc customers. This unique concept makes your optical media more interesting by creating additional value for your customers.
Your Benefits
For the first time ever the n-CD concept makes it possible to add value to conventional optical media. Only this technology developed by Sony DADC guarantees the user the advantage of accessing specific content which is directly linked to a specific original CD or DVD. Postscribed-ID (PID) allows identification of a specific disc by checking the disc's unique identification number. Organizations using the new n-CD can now implement new marketing tools:
- Link a CD directly to a specific webpage and to specific premium content - secure and unique!
- Collection of bonus points (e.g. per CD)
- Lottery games (e.g. 10 out of 100 CDs win a prize "online" or get privileged web access)
- Automatic online registration (e.g. for software publishers)
- Collect valuable customer data for 1 : 1 marketing activities
Product Features
The overall n-CD offering from Sony DADC includes
For more information visit http://www.n-cd.com
- CD production / replication
- Unique identification number (PID)
- Secure weblink (CD - Internet)
- Online authentication process
- Online marketing promotion concept (bonus points, voucher concept, lottery games)
- User statistics & CRM data
- Customer specific portal site (optional)
- Online shop (optional)
These features are not based on a conspiracy theory they are based upon the product specification as explained to prospective SecuRom customers.
For those with enough interest its also worth following the crumb trial provided by the www.n-cd.com link as this leads eventually to this site http://www.sonydadc.com/anzeige_ncd/ which gives you some actual examples of online marketing campaigns undertaken using this technology. Note: that in most of these examples the functionality has been secreted on a dedicated CD distributed by a company specifically for marketing purposes but essentially the technology is the same as is the trigger mechanism.
Good find, Didz. This also goes a good ways to explaining why companies are going with this product. I imagine the marketing guys at the publishers are beside themselves with the possiblities of using this stuff. They only thing they need to determine is how much of this the customers will put up with, and how quickly they can get us to accept it.
I have to say tolerance for this sort of stuff is pretty low. For example: I am known to curse everytime I have to wait for that damned news pop-up to finish loading after you have booted msn messenger. So, the throught of having to wade through a series of promotional websites everytime I want to play Totalwar fills me with dread.
Translation:
~sapiQuote:
Originally Posted by centurie
Obviously a Sony shareholder.
Or a games company employee taking control of his Org account via one of those Securom installations he has on one of his five hard drives! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Didz
by the way I have Daemon tools installed and I am not a :pirate2: - I find it useful for a number of things involving my legitimately purchased CDs and DVDs
There are already, in this very thread, multiple examples of Sony's copy protection software causing everything from minor to severe problems for user's PCs. Centurie clearly has not read the thread or done even the most basic research on the subject. :wall:
:egypt:
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We may be feeding one troll under different identities... Post reported.
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I have gotten so that anytime I play a game I disconnect my Internet service. A few games will then not load but I don't play those.
Maybe it is time to read a book rather than buy another game.
I hear ya Grey Beard. I have gotten more reading done since I stopped playing TW until this Securom issue is dealt with properly. I have plenty of things to amuse me, and if CA doesn't want to be one of them, well, that's their choice.
It took 180 seconds of my life...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori Gabriel Syme
If you dont have 180 seconds then you shouldnt be here... :laugh4:
Anyway if publishers want to stop piracy they should make 100% online games...WoW proved how much money is there if you take piracy out of the picture...
~:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes
Oh! Is that the point?
It is easy to remove when you are done with the game so it is okay?
What about your bank information and any other private information you may have on your computer. Why should it be that they can even think of putting potentially harmful BS on your system when you are paying the bills.
This junk should not be allowed…end of story! Nothing potentially invasive should be allowed and letting it go because you can get rid of it when you don’t need it any more is just asking for the next step.
Do you know what identity theft is. Or how tough it is to get straight once you find it. It is a big big hassle and pirates or not it is no reason to allow others to snoop your system.
You got rid of it in 180 seconds but what did it take when it was first loaded? Dose it make a scan of everything? Dose a system copy go into a data base some where?
It is malware plane and simple and I don’t pay money to people who could care less if I am damaged or might even be in on it.
Info mining of consumer products should be outlawed and products you pay for should be free of it.
You know, I noticed a funny thing the other day. After installing Kingdoms the first time, I had trouble with some campaigns incurring in a CTD. Later on I read that you can't properly update M2TW if you have any modified files, so I uninstalled and reinstalled Medieval 2. I had already caught a wiff of this thread and the whole SecuROM thing and decided to take a look at how it installs itself.
To make a long story short, I deleted the hidden 'SecuROM' folder from the also hidden 'Application Data' folder where it lives, but kept 'Application Data' open in a Windows Explorer window. Then I put in the first Kingdoms DVD in the drive to begin the install. No longer had I closed the tray and the autorun begun, popping up the Menu for install, play and such, that the SecuROM folder got created again.
The point is, I can't tell for sure, but it seems like SecuROM gets automaticly installed by just putting the DVD into the drive. If someone could confirm this (and I don't really know if it's installed, but why would it create the folder if it wasn't?), as this is a point where no EULA has been shown yet, could it possibly be construed as an illegal practice?
I'm really having a hard time understanding how people can be informed that a company, without their permission, installed software in their registry that requires a virtual shut down of your computer's protections in order to remove... and a piece of software that already compromises your security as it is... is okay.
I own kingdoms, I play kingdoms, and I've accepted that SecuRom is a part of that. That doesn't make it any less wrong for CA to have done that too me.
It's my rig, I should have been informed of every last piece of software going on my computer, and should have been given the choice prior to installation, if not prior to purchase.
Analogy time... imagine if you were having cable installed, and as part of the package, the cable guy installed a camera in your living room to keep an eye on you and make sure you weren't using a camcorder to broadcast PPV over the internet. The camera is secured in the wall in such a way that removing it would leave a huge uncovered window to the outside. This is SecuRom.
Why has no one from SEGA or CA responded in this topic what so ever? Every time I see some one ask this question (I think 3 times in this thread) it is swept aside by others peoples bickering topics (usually over law).
Very well said. The Empires era is my favourite in history, and I will be saddened if it has malware DRM, because I will not buy it. If it is a game worse than M2TW, I will buy it, even if only to give mods a chance. If it is bug-ridden, I will probably buy it. If it has SecuRom or something equivalently bad, I will never buy it. I'd rather download a crack for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
Now I know why I have to clean house so well to be able to reinstall the game in case of something that may not eben be my fault and have to use their uninstaller. THANKS FOR NOTHING, SEGA.