Hmm, this cataclysm is starting out pretty well for Dietrich.
I accept the marriage proposal.
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Hmm, this cataclysm is starting out pretty well for Dietrich.
I accept the marriage proposal.
peters coup didnt go as planned.
I have a couple of things I want to do to the save before handing over to TinCow.
Once the Chancellor's report for 1318 goes up, we will be in 1320 in the story.
Good, I was hoping you were going to fine-tune the 1320 save. I am already working on the first turn write-up for the Cataclysm period. Please be patient with me throughout my phase of the event. This stuff takes a long time to write for 19 players.
I am going to list options for all players on the first turn, just because I want to demonstrate the range of possibilities that are open to people. I urge you all to read the options for each character, simply because some are more imaginative than others. Use them as a way to come up with your own strategies.
If in the future you know you are going to make up your own choices about what to do, please notify me ahead of time. It will save some time if I can skip writing choices for a few people.
OK, I've adjusted the save to reflect the Battle for Normandy:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1320.zip
It's all yours, TinCow. If you need me to do any more fine tuning, just shout. I am leaving the command of the Saxon army as an issue for 1320 to decide.
I think the news embargo is over - it was the fall of Rome we wanted to keep secret - so unless TinCow says otherwise, players are free to inspect the savegame.
On another matter, we have a new avatar - Dieter von Kassel - who has spawned in besieged Acre. My (OOC!) son, Mini Econ, has asked to take on the role and I have agreed. I am pretty sure he will be youngest player here, so please make allowances.
Just to confirm I will look after the avatar shots for the library.
No: &#*@%!Quote:
so please make allowances.
or even:
*!^$%$^@
???
:daisy: all
btw: I believe you made him Heir to Franconia ... not the best place for a young kid
Heh "Mini Econ" huh? So he's going to be an economist too? :grin2:
Thanks for the infos btw, I'll have a word with TC.
FYI, the first turn will begin tomorrow. You can rest easy for tonight and stop reloading the forums.
how old is mini-econ?
New KOTRfix is up (v 1.29).
Several fixes to minor oversights in terms of 1.28a's balance, upped a few chances here and downed a few there. Lowered several trait thresholds for very rare traits and upped them for some too common traits.
As usual get it from my sig or direct link:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix129.zip
If we have a mini-econ does that make econ21, macro-econ?
Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.
Seriously though Econ21 good job :2thumbsup: on weakening the Reich in a believable manner and accomodating all sorts of odd requests while telling an enthralling story. It's all so Gibbonesque.
You're a better man then me. My ego wouldn't have allowed me to drag my character's reputation through the mud and thrown a wrench into the delicate machinery we've built up. I can only imagine the sick, twisted and horrific things TC has waiting for us.
I approve of OK's post.
Ugh, OK, I'm taking AP economics this year. Please don't remind me.
Cry me a river GH, I had an 8:00am Intro to Economics class in college. The horror, the horror.
Yeah, but that was back in college. You're supposed to, you know, look back on it and laugh (or at least, wonder how you survived).
I on the other hand am forced to deal with the reminders that KotR is sucking my time from studying for said class.
im taking ap gov/econ senior year, next
AP Gov isn't too bad. I took it last year and did fine on the exam.
Anyway, I'm trying my hand at making some KotR banners in preparation for the cataclysm; here's my first attempt. Any suggestions/ideas on how to zoom in closer? I wanted an Imperial fighting a Byzantine close-up but this was as close as I could get.
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner1.jpg
Awesome, interesting story as well GH.
And when you've done some banners, will you allow other players to use them?
Yes, please do.
Good story GH, I like that you really have to know about KOTR to get who it's about.
Serves him right, too. :laugh4:
Three more:
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner2.jpg
The wordier, cataclysm-ready version:
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner3.jpg
And the Heinrich-approved one:
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner4.jpg
-edit- Hmm, words don't come out too well. Maybe it's the color.
Let's try it in blue:
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/.../banner4-1.jpg
And now, with contrast!
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner5.jpg
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...f/banner5a.jpg
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner6.jpg
Ah, how do I add it to my sig? DO I have to save it then download it using Imageshack?
The red and blue lettering is a little fuzzy or washed out but that green looks sharpe. It has a real contrast to the background.
I will also join in with the kudos to GH for the story. :2thumbsup:
Somewhere, the world's smallest violin is playing for a certain former Kaiser. ^_^
But one minor point with the story, I think Karl Zirn is the oldest avatar, not Hans.
It's, in order:
Karl Zirn 56
Hans 54
Elberhard 48
Ansehelm 47
Jan 45 (yeah I was surprised by this too. Jan is one of the "elders". :beam:)
Fritz 43
Peter 42
Arnold 41
Lothar 41
The rest are "youngins" since I set an arbitrary cut-off of 40. :D
Also, I might be a half of a year off in avatar age since I just added 5 years to whatever was in the Library. Didn't feel like loading up the save again.
No wonder the old joints have been acting up recently. I'm an old coot!:turtle:
I think maybe I may the oldest player with the oldest avatar.
Ahh jees,
I'm finally starting to get the excitement back after a while.
Cecil....definitely no hard feelings, but....you are talking about the original and best, Dread Duke of the Holy Roman Empire.
I can't see him giving you too much leeway on this...still, maybe he gets married soon as can be pacified :laugh4:
He's 12 - just starting secondary school.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921
We've been playing Warhammer wargames together since he was about five though, so he is something of a veteran.
Now that's what I call education :laugh4:
No, use the URL tag and where you would normally put what the link would say (not the actual link - I linked it to the History thread) put the IMG tag and then the image URL itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
Example: [URL="http://www.where_you_want_to_link_it_to.org"][IMG]http://www.image_url_here.com[/IMG][/URL]
First turn post is up. FH and GH have already been communicating with me regularly on their plans, so I skipped the choices for them to save time. At least for this turn, I urge everyone to read the choices for each person, if only to give you ideas for the future. Keep in mind these choices are NOT DEFINITIVE. If you want to elaborate further on one of them or do something completely different, just tell me so in the PM.
Second, note that I have relied on peoples' traits heavily in many areas, especially financial. All unusual financial adjustments are noted in parentheses after the current amount of wealth.
Third, the 1320.sav file has not yet been edited. I am going to move some armies around right now and will then re-upload it. If something in the description I posted does not match the current save game, go with what the description says.
Finally, I changed the rules on movement to greatly simplify them. Please re-read them.
Wow TinCow, that looks really impressive. :bow:
Finally, here's a banner reminiscent of happier times:
https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...ef/banner7.jpg
@TinCow, Vilnius is not controlled by Elberhard, but by Franconia
Sorry, I was going by the Chancellor's thread which says it is Imperial. Can you show me where it was given to Franconia?
o it is imperial. dang
I don't think Vilnius was ever allocated to a House; at the last Diet, the intention was to abandon it, which is what happened. However, the AI just walked past it for about 8 turns, even though it was ungarrisoned. Then I put in a minimal garrison, hoping to lure the AI to take it. They are still ignoring it. :shrug:
TinCow: I might have missed it, but what is the deadline for submitting orders? 24 hours from your post? 48 hours?
Ah, I forgot to include that. It will be 48 hours from the time of posting. I will not that at the top of the FAQ.
Also, the 'official' save file is now uploaded. I may have a few small tweaks to make to it, but everything major has been done and you can rely on it as a complete picture of the situation. The 'official' saves will be posted at the top of the posts for each individual year.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1320-1.zip
To keep things moving, it might be possible to execute some orders within that 48 hours waiting period, if they have no bearing on other orders. For example, Mini Econ's sally could be got out the way, as it does not affect anyone else either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
More generally, in the last Chancellorship, I found it useful to think about Houses and Outremer as "sectors", and once all orders are in for a sector, they could be implemented regardless of any outstanding orders or battles relating to other sectors.
Already told Mini Econ to fight his sally whenever he wants, since the results will not impact any other moves.
Also, I have added the following line to the Direct Recuitment section and am posting it here so that people are aware:
If you want to use Direct Recruitment, you need to let me know in the PM and state specifically which units you want to recruit. My default choices will rarely include Direct Recruitment choices, so a typical response would be "Option B + Recruit 1 unit of Zweihanders and 1 unit of Sergeant Spearmen".
I am going off right now to make a specific list of all the normal HRE units and the common mercenaries. I will specifically state the recruitment price of each unit in the FAQ.
Econ, your going to fight my battle when I seige Budapust right?
Yes, I would be honoured to. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill
Econ, I want Lorenz bloodied up, let him kill as much enemies as possible, but please please please don't let him die, I already lost 2 generals in a month don't want a third. Also when your done SACK THE PLACE.
Something interesting at the Citadel
CA hasn't got any patches planned nor in the works for M2TW/Kingdoms.
Here is the list of specific unit prices. It is nothing really new, just a direct translation of the generic list I originally posted onto the exact units in the game. This is not meant to represent in-game prices at all and is more designed with players' abilities in mind. For instance, ranged units cost more than equivalent infantry because humans are far better at using them than the AI. You can thank FactionHeir for the crazy high prices on mounted units.
Pasted for ease of reference:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Alright, first off, the official cataclysm thread is awesome. Hats off to TC for what seemed to be a lot of work. :2thumbsup:
Second, I have a question on Kaiser Economics (Kaisernomics?)
It seems the Kaiser gets 1 for each Imperial province that's attached to the Kaiser's location and not under siege. But it lists Vilinius and Acre. I have a couple of questions about this.
1.) Vilinius was never incorporated. If we are claiming that un-incorporated provinces are Imperial, then Vilinius, Constantinople, and Durazzo would all count. But, none have an uninterrupted path to the Kaiser's location so none would give him money.
2.) Acre is listed as the Kaiser's but Acre is Swabian and Outremer's. Once the Elberhard left his house, he left Swabia. Therefore, Acre is Jan's since it is enshrined in the Outremer charter.
3.) Antioch however, is Imperial. And it is in the Charter. So, does it give 1 to Jan and 1 to Elberhard?
This is in no way an attempt IC or OOC to deny the Kaiser money. It's just that I am a micro-managing, anal-retentive, number-cruncher and I like to keep track of these things. :yes:
Also, to clarify, do King/Dukes get 1 point for every territory under their control, with uninterrupted path to the avatar, and not under-siege, regardless of if it is a castle or city? And then an extra point if their territory has a loyal count?
So, Jan would have:
Antioch, Aleppo, and Acre. None have counts because Bresch (Aleppo) is in Europe and loses the crusader count status and Elberhard (Acre) became Kaiser and can't be a crusader count, and Antioch never has a count. So, that is 3. But Acre and Aleppo are besieged so that is -2. So, Jan has 1 like what is listed in the Official Cataclysm Thread (OCT) but it gets there differently. It does not give Jan Acre.
So, the Kaiser would have:
Vilinius, Constantinople, Durazzo, and joint control of Antioch with the King. This would be 4. But Vilinius, Constantinople, and Durrazo are all far and out of communication with the Kaiser so that is -3. So, the Kaiser would get 1 from Antioch. Again, this is the number that is listed in the OCT but it gets there differently. It gives Elberhard Acre when it is really Jan's and it does not account for Elberhard getting a point from Antioch when it is really Imperial and Jan's.
Furthermore, are we starting the time where re-captured territories will not automatically go back to their houses? Didn't we say that houses could keep what they re-capture during the cataclysm but the Kaiser can re-allocate at the next Diet to reward/punish?
How am I doing so far? :book:
Castles do not give points, so the Acre point is moot until you convert it.
As King, you'd get bonus point if you got CCs. Emperors don't get bonus points I don't think. They get that +4 bonus TC mentioned.
Dukes have been given one point for every settlement regardless of castle/city status. Look at Arnold's, Lothar's, and Ansehelm's profiles in the OCT. :yes:
nm, this has been figured out.
Well, Hans only has a point for Bern but not Staufen.
Good catch, I missed that Antioch was Imperial, I was thinking it just belonged to Jan because it wasn't listed in the Chancellor's thread as Imperial. It has been corrected and Elberhard now has an extra +1 from Antioch. Acre is listed as Elberhard's because he is listed as the governor in the Chancellor's thread. Let me know if that is wrong.
Castles generate no income for anyone, not even Dukes, unless they are a rebel capital or there are some other unique circumstances. (See Lothar's financials - Please note that I tried to give each Duke an advantage of some sort. Ansehelm is rich so he doesn't need a bonus. Arnold is pretty rich too, so his 'bonus' is more for flavor and amusement. Lothar is moderately profitable, but is likely to lose a lot of territory quickly and thus the generic +1 to compensate (Plus the description of Deep Pockets indicates the result). Hans has the least of any Duke, but he has easily the best 'bonus' in the entire game to compensate.)
Vilnius was included simply as a note to myself. I consider it cut-off from pretty much everyone and hopefully it will fall to someone soon. It should've been disposed of several turns ago, but the AI has been annoying. Try to pretend it doesn't exist. Constantinople belongs only to Tancred because he captured it. I don't expect him to hang around though, so it will belong to no one next turn, even if the AI doesn't take it. Durazzo belongs to no one because it is rebel, not HRE.
For the next 10 turns, people who capture settlements control them. What happens to them afterwards will be up to the Diet, not me.
I think we should make a new IC thread for characters to discuss in, maybe a Imperial Mail Room, where letters can be sent in to be announced to the Reich, instead of the player sending a pm to everyone.
TC, from what you have told me, I looked into it.
Ansehelm: looks ok
Hans: looks ok
Lothar: looks ok
Arnold: looks like he has 1 extra he shouldn't have. Ragusa is a castle. He should have 3 for cities, 2 for counts, and 1 for gambling. Which is 6 instead of 7.
Kaiser: Should not have Acre. Elberhard lost Acre when he became Kaiser. A Kaiser can not be a count/crusader count. The Chancellor thread was never updated regarding that.
Jan: Should have Acre. Dukes/King get what is theirs in the beginning. Acre is in the Charter therefore it is Outremer's. Therefore, it is Jan's. It doesn't give money because it is a castle but it is the principle of the matter. ^_^
Arnold, Elberhard, and Jan fixed. Removed Vilnius altogether to avoid future confusions.
woot. thnx. :2thumbsup:
I had an error before that stated my disc can't be read, or I have the wrong disc in. While the disc was being runned in the hard-drive it would make a "Rrring" sound. I found out that there was a big fat scratch on it, but I doubt it was the problem. I finally got the damn game to uninstall and when I reinstall this thing popped up.
Feature Transfer Error
Feature: Packs
File: D:\main\packs\data_0.pack
Error: Data Error (Cyclic Redundancy Check)
I want to play KOTR so help me out, since all the other forums are ignoring me.
I'm loving the fact I'm the richest avatar at the moment. Quite irritating only being able to spend it on militia, oh well ~;)
RoadKill
Try using this little program, and see if it manages to recover that File which keeps stalling your install.
:balloon2:
I think you could exchange it with a player who has a castle. For example, IIRC, Dieter Bresch has Magdeberg but no income. Sounds like a possibility for a mutually beneficial exchange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
I don't know the solution to the problem by heart, but I know for sure that there were people who had it before and got it fixed.
Check the Citadel and the Apothecary.
Thanks Dutch_Guy, I ran the program and it seems that I have 5 things wrong with the CD, the data_0.pack, data_1.pack, data_2.pack data_3.pack, data_4.pack and localized.pack
I think the scratch on the disc ruined those files, maybe not, but factionheir, there are a gajillion posts, It'll be impossible to find it.
Hmm well if those files are noted as corrupt on your CD, then you probably will either have to remove a layer or get a replacement.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how that program reacts to .pack files. Defrag for instance doesn't like iso and mdf files, so if only pack files are affected, this might be suspect.
FH, I keep getting error messages when trying to update to 1.29. The archive is either in unknown format or damaged.
-edit- Nevermind, re-downloaded it and it's fine.
Odd. It works fine here. Is it a CRC error?
If so, try redownloading (with and without a dl manager).
If it still won't work, I'll upload a second copy to make sure.
Heh, check the edit.
Aww.. this sucks, it means I'll never be able to play MTW 2 again :thumbsdown:. I'm not gonna go buy another copy and I don't think I can get a replacment for it from EB games.
If it is just a deep scratch, you can use various household products to remove it. Usually very mild abrasives. I have successfully removed scratches that made an otherwise unplayable game CD work fine with Soft Scrub. I'm sure you can find a list of other stuff that would work with google.
Well, I checked out some remedies on google, and I found an intresting one with toothpaste, of course I tested it out on a scratched disc I didn't need anymore, and I did what the guy said and magically 80% of the scratches dissapeared! I tried it on my MTW2 disc, unfortunatly didn't work, but my disc smells like mints, and its all buffed up shiny and all the tinier scratches are gone, but not the big one.
I guess Teutonic Knights cost 5 points? Statistically, they seem a match for Gothics and a clear step up from Imperials.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
If it's a deep scratch, it will simply take a while to abrade it away. Just keep rubbing until it's gone. The finer the abrasive (toothpaste is very fine) the longer it will take, but the better the end result.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill
Yep, adding them to the list now. People with low piety will also have problems recruiting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
An important potential source of revenue during the cataclysm is likely to be taking enemy settlements and ransoming prisoners. I could not see these events covered explicitly in the cataclysm rules. (Perhaps the settlement capture effect is aleady captured by the city income and the rule for scrapping buildings - although that would remove a lot of the trade-off between sacking, exterminating and occupying.)
What I was wondering was an exchange rate of 1500 florins = 1 recruitment point.
The rationale is that a basic spear militia costs 1 recruitment point. In the game, it costs 310 to recruit and 1250 in upkeep for the 10 turns of the cataclysm. So that's about 1500 florins (let's deal in round numbers).
Sacking can be pretty lucrative - Stetting yielded 20k, IIRC. So on the above exchange rate, that would translate into about 13 points or 4-5 decent units. I was a lot more generous to Fritz, but that was partly because I wanted to create enough units to outfit three players. 13 points is still more than most of us will get as fixed income throughout the cataclysm.
The exchange rate could be made less favourable for taking settlements, as cities will give 1 point per turn and scrapping buildings would also bring in a lot of cash.
I don't think ransoming gives you a lot of florins, unless you bag a Prince or King, but we could round up. Allowing a point or two seems reasonable. It will also help maintain the game's nice trade off between getting chivalry/dread points and getting cash.
Hey guys, I know that a lot of you may be too busy to join another PBM, but for those who aren't and have Kingdoms, I'm going to start a Teutonic Order PBM, so hit up the sign-up thread and reserve your avatar.
TC, I think you need to move Edmund Becker back to from the mausoleum to the library. :P
Econ, forgot to tell you, if you think you have to odds of winning, do't wait for reinforcments just attack on your own, Lorenz has to prove Arnold that he can kick butt.
cmon kingdoms people, join up so i can have some good experienced PBM players. get a good avatar if u come early!
Hardly anyone here has kingdoms haha.
stig, econ, and bob do, maybe more im not sure. ik econ is busy, i was more wondering stig and bob, depending on how busy they are
***Serious post below***
Judging by my parsing of the various House Threads (don't yell at me, we're all guilty) and private communications I'm worried about the amount of sabotage that's going to occur during this cataclysm.
The whole idea that you're allowed to do whatever you want to other Electors and the fact that the rules basically encourage the sacking and plunder of your own settlements, i.e. destroying buildings in-game is very worrying for the situation in 1340.
I'm worried that we might break the game in these ten turns if we're not careful. TinCow and econ have stated that there's going to be more losing settlements than capturing them in this period, and that's fine, but there's always the time where we have to win them back. In addition, it's very possible that we're also going to have to get our finances straightened out and drive off the multitude of enemies from our land, this time without the help of the console and at the mercy of the game's financial system, not TinCow's.
There is 1340 to look forward to, and right now it doesn't look good. Strictly from an IC point of view, emotions are going to be running high after all of the internal sabotage and plunderings. I don't know if we'll be able to justify it if we were all able to convene and be satisfied with the legal resolutions. What's to stop firebrands like Dietrich or Becker (if they're at large) if they don't get what they want from going right back to rebellion?
In addition, we're actually going to have to get back to the game OOC as well. I had planned to run as Chancellor in 1340, and I still do, but if we all choose the "safe" option, plunder settlements, and retreat farther into the heartlands the Chancellor is going to be faced with a bunch of armies huddled around Frankfurt and Nuremberg, which won't be able to pay for all of them and the men won't be able to keep out the many French, Byzantine, Danish, Polish, Hungarian, Russian, Venetian, and Papal forces laying siege to those two territories.
Basically, I'm worried that we'll lose the game. While it's a rather fitting death for the PBM IC it definitely wasn't designed to be this way OOC. It was designed to provide a challenge to us, but I believe that the cataclysm is tottering on the edge between "challenge" and "impossibility."
If we want to keep playing well into the 1400s and even discover America, I suggest you all tread carefully when making your decisions.
GH is right. we cant just kill everything.
I second that,
id hate to be the accidental engineer of the end of the game. at least econ21 and tincow are planning it all, i just through my hat into the ring
GH: You reap what you sow. People have chosen to play contentious rebellious characters. Of course this is a possible outcome of that. People do not have to plunder and sack other people's provinces. People don't have to kill Popes. People don't have to rebel. But if they choose to, then they should not be surprised IC or OOC at what happens. There are many reasons I am having Jan go the "co-operative" route in the cataclysm. One reason is simply to follow his traits. The other is because I do not want to create such a massively contentious and stressful environment to play in.
So, if people are worried about breaking the game, then they should think about what their avatar says and does. If we do break the game, we only have ourselves to blame. We wanted strife and difficulty. Now we have it. It's up to us IC and OOC to decide what to do about it.
I say lets play on and see what happens. If we end up breaking the game, we can just start another. If anyone is really worried about what the game is becoming, then they should sit and think about how they are adding to the environment.
The problems that GH is concerned with are exactly those that we wanted to create with the cataclysm. We want to renew the 'challenge' in the game, thus the cataclysm. Don't worry, though, I'm not going to let us totally collapse. I am trying to balance all aspect of the cataclysm so that people are constantly challenged and (hopefully) slowly pushed backwards. However, it is not my intention at all to destroy the Reich. If the AI becomes more dangerous than I want it to be in certain areas, I will use in-game events to give HRE players more of an edge.
Regarding finances from tearing buildings down, judging from the initial choices I have received, I don't think you'll need to worry about this too much. Maybe a few cities will suffer with a couple small buildings consumed elsewhere, but I don't expect people to burn down everything they see. Have some faith, I think people will generally be far less destructive than you think.
I will take it as a major compliment that econ21 and I have been able to make you afraid of losing the game though. :2thumbsup:
[edit]: A few PMs with Privateerkev have made me realize that I screwed up on the wealth calculations and gave the Dukes more then they should have had. However, I really like the wealth balance that I created at the start and I don't want to change it. Thus, I have changed the Fixed Income rules to reflect my error rather than the other way around. This in turn has made Dukes more profitable than I had otherwise anticipated. Thus, the rebel Capital rule has also changed to compensate. Rebel capitals now produce 2 income, even if they are castles. The new wording is as follows:
Apologies for any confusion. I became a lawyer because I'm better with words than numbers. Please keep an eye on my math, I may screw up again.Quote:
Provinces that belong to a Count who remains loyal to their Duke will provide 1 "control" income to BOTH the Count and the Duke, as well as a bonus 1 income to the Duke: resulting in 2 income for the Duke and 1 income for the loyal Count (assuming the city is not besieged, etc.). Counts that rebel from their Dukes will receive an income of 2 from the province they declare as their 'Capital' for the rest of the Cataclysm, provided that all other requirements for the income are met, even if they are castles. Thus, Wolfgang has an extra 1 wealth.