ALEXANDER EB

I suggest series of measure's to 'take down' Aegypt expansion - like, weak the start position of the Aegypt army by adding more unit's to Seleucid's wich will make them force Aegypt to defend at the start and that should prolong the AS life.. In any case - AS are loosing over to the Aegypt in any case

Second, I really think that Makedonia is uderpowered - read the report up..
So they should never loose Corintos that fast and Pella should have Stone Wall because of the Pyrros elephant (wich is very usefull if you play Epeiros)

Also, the testing's are clear about the massive use of royal and army barrack's by the AI - that should be 'resource' limited to 30% of the region's so Aegypt wont gain mad pace after 240bc when all Seleucid's town's already have Army barrack's (due to the share system). If we make 'resource' limit's it will further make AS postition stronger and therefore more less likely to loose at the start :san_grin:

Well I live in the Dominican Republic right now so buying it online is not really an option. However, I will visit Texas shortly so if any of you guys knows were to get it I'll appreciate if you can tell me.

After hours of testing I confirm that RomeTW-ALX.exe engine does improve game performance =)
Maximus, I thanx you for your efforts on RomeTW-ALX.exe promotion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cantu

Well I live in the Dominican Republic right now so buying it online is not really an option. However, I will visit Texas shortly so if any of you guys knows were to get it I'll appreciate if you can tell me.

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I am sure that any PC game shop has it in US :yes:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

After hours of testing I confirm that RomeTW-ALX.exe engine does improve game performance =)
Maximus, I thanx you for your efforts on RomeTW-ALX.exe promotion.

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I think that we should go 'beta' in two days - like, we add your script + Konny's WIN condition script and I will upload the desr_start*txt with ''ai_attack'' alteration's after some test's tonight.. + Add the night battle capability trait to no more then couple of general's (from the Stepe East and Germany... + maybe Armenian one)

I also want to add greater barrack's to the capitol cities of the faction's (mostly because it is realistic, second because you get celtic reforms before you even have the barrack's and because you are able to use spartan's only 55-100 years after Pyrros attacks Sparta that is defended with spartans)..

To make it simple! ai_do_not_attack faction's can not be the only solution to some massive problem's like Aegypt expansion, the fact that Makedonia almost instantly loose's Pella (that need's stone wall btw) and Corintos.. and never has them back.. The fact that Dacia and Baktria are not expanding at all... etc..

There are some descr_start.txt 'tweaks' like - more army to the Seleucid's in MEast so they don't loose there after 10 turn's, more Carthage Army in Sicily so they advance to Italy and disable Roman early expansion to Gaul whic will enable Roman's to TAKE Sicily before the Gaul..

Any suggestion's? Konny, Lgk, MiniMe?

Also we need to meke some nice pictures for the signature's.. I can make them in CS3.. just post suggestion's..:san_wink:

suggestions...
My main suggestion thus far is very general but very serious
We don't need to rush :no:
What we really need to do is to define.
The task consists of:
1. Creating a stable upgradeble installer/uninstaller;
2. Finding out what else besides AI_unit_retraining and performance improvement can be achieved with romeTW-ALX.exe;
3. Adding new features;
4. Upon common agreement applying some minor changes to EB classic
From what I've read in all alex treads, you and LGK are full of great ideas on point 4 and are willing to immediately implement them. But that is the last point of what's need to be done.
EB 1.0 thus far is the best TW mod. There are many issues to discuss, however I'm afraid that by tearing it's system of rules apart in couple of days won't help nobody.

Why don't for a start everyone of us, who's willing to do so, would state and formulate: what exactly this person want's from this project and what this person is ready to do?

Best regards
MiniMe

Ok, I will write my view - and you write your's in 'major' text if you please..

And post now if you can.. so we can sum it up!

Anyway, Lgk is not around but he is very smart RTW veteran, so we must hear him too...

konny also..

And to add, I someone does something really bad in the mod - we can compromise by allowing him to have 'optional' 'AlexEBMod' add-on.. for Example I would love to see advanced City Mod in the finall 'AlexEBMod' for EB 1.1, but I won't push it too far.. If majority (acording to the voting system does not agree, then fine) - + I wont even ask a vote if there are good argument's to give up of some ideas..:yes:

So we ALL NEED TO POST HERE WHAT WE WANT.. I will post in one hour!

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

Second, I really think that Makedonia is uderpowered - read the report up..
So they should never loose Corintos that fast and Pella should have Stone Wall because of the Pyrros elephant (wich is very usefull if you play Epeiros)

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I have made some successes with a simple change in the descr_strat.txt:

I had placed the Makedonian main army between Pyrrhos and Pella. What does it do?

When both are played by the AI the Maks will have their turn first; Antigonos drafts the garrison from Pella to his army and attacks the Epeirote army. That battle was in all, save for one, tests won by Makedonia. Now the Epeirote army retreats to the mountains and is not strong enough to make a new attack to soon (they will do, but until then the Makedonians have enough time to reinforce their position in Pella).

The AI also withdraws the army next to Korinth and place it in Demtrias. That is quite a clever move because as long as it can not take Athens in short it will not be able to reinforce the troops on the Peleponnes; any forces down there are doomed as soon as Greece starts moving.

So, Makedonia loses Korinth but ends up with a much stronger position in Demetrias and Pella.

Here is an example of MiniMe's campaing around 200BC played with this alteration:

https://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6918/201bcre9.png


In my games too Makedonia is in most of the cases able to hold her position in Pella this way, especially when they start to retrain the forces.

The makedon issue is fixed by that from the AI point, still If I use Pyrros - I will take Pella anyway in the first turn.. so Wall in Pella is important here..

:thinking2: Let us not move the characters that are in one place according to the history book (like Gonatas away from Athenati) .. other's that we don't know where they were at that time - we can move anyway - that is also the same for the armyies? You placed Maks army in front of Pella without the character's?..

I made the decr_start.txt alteration's but should I test with your script???
Is it compatible with new 1 fix release that bovi added yesterday?

Also, I will post the screen's here..

Konny - have in mind that only by using ai_attack option we are solving most of the problems with AI expansion already..:shrug: So, the scrpt that you are modding should have that in mind.. anyway's I will upload the descr_strat.txt file that contain's ai_attack tweak's and you can test it too

The fact that Pyrrhos could take Makedonia extremely easily is a historical fact of 272BC. I believe at the start date the town of Pella should actually be in Pyrrhos' hands. Only Pyrrhos' idea of attacking Sparte kept him from easily displacing the Antigonids in Makedonia.

Well - yes, I was just looking at some historic maps and I could see that Pyrros had Pella in 272bc.. :square:

Why did you not make it in Pyrros hands then? :shrug:


This way.. we.. :gah:

Ok Marcus, did Pella really had stone_wall or not?

Anyway's.. You made the City Mod so EB could be more ''real'' - I agree with that.. I think CityMod should be developed more. The way official EB is made - EVERY single town is usually alway's HUGE at about 200bc... That is really one major minus and a setback of EB realism (by my opinion)..that also goes for high-end building's ... but I typed about for that many many times..

I think that there is one nice number of eb team member's that wanted to make 'everything' as it 'was'.. But that would mean that almost every Hellenic town has a sewer? Right? Or that Pergamun should have one of the largest theater's at the start and a stone Wall - and not to say that Antioh should have Royal barrack's.. or Army at the least (and that goes for Alexandria and Seleukeia too..)

I understand that game should be 'played' - it is only a game..:curtain:

But thank you for that comment...

IF !!! you can spear some time with a ''guide'' what 'was' the worlde REALLY like in 272bc (in terms of city buildings in every town) - AlexEBTeam will use it for the minimod..:san_grin:

I believe Makedonia was given to 'Makedonia' (the faction) because the Antigonids still controlled much of the territory including all of the port cities. I think Antigonos still held the title of 'King of Makedon' too. And for gameplay reasons, if 'Makedonia' didn't have Makedonia they would have absolutely no chance at success as an AI faction. Though, I wasn't around when EB was originally made. I do agree, though, that Makedonia is underpowered as an AI faction.

I don't know the exact levels every city should be at, but the game engine restricts things from being close to where they should be. :wall:
Good new is that in M2TW you can control population growth a whole lot better. That combined with the fact that M2TW recruitment doesn't deplete populations will result in much more accurate starting possitions and town growth in EB2.

But can you say that even do that you and I don't really know all the level's (I searched at some ancient city plan's) - but I can say and can you say the same - that, Level's of capitol's and big cities in EB should be and remain biger than 'other' town's - the CityMod solves that so I think you can say it..

But can you say that Big Cities should be bigger in every aspect and small should remain small at the start for example?

I don't see any other solution to the extensive pace problem AI uses building settlements - either you can ''resource'' block that or you can ''counstruction time'' block tha pace.. so you don't end with ''every-city is NewYork scope''

What do you think??:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

The makedon issue is fixed by that from the AI point, still If I use Pyrros - I will take Pella anyway in the first turn.. so Wall in Pella is important here..

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When I play Epeiros I take Pella on turn #1, rush for Demetrias and finish the rest of the Maks off. I leave Korinth and Chalkis for the Greeks, who will certainly attack me sooner or later, what makes me master of Greece.

When I play Makedonia I defeat and kill Pyrrhos on turn #1, might or might not lose Korinth (depends on the speed of the Greeks). I head south defeat all Greek field armies, take Athens, then Sparta. Afterwards I go for Epeiros.

When I play KH I wait for the Maks to withdraw their army then take Korinth in 2 turns while sending a detachement to Chalkis to prevent from mass recruiting of Makedonian Hoplitai Haploi there. After the conquest of Korinth I move all forces East to take Chalkis; and before the AI is realising what's going on I am sieging Demetrias with all my men.


So what, the human player is always better and faster than the AI because he has an overall plan in mind while the AI is simply acting from turn to turn. Stonewalls here and there don't make a difference. If you don't want to take Pella in turn #1 disband the elephants.

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Let us not move the characters that are in one place according to the history book (like Gonatas away from Athenati) .. other's that we don't know where they were at that time - we can move anyway - that is also the same for the armyies? You placed Maks army in front of Pella without the character's?..

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No, the character was moved with the army. And I only moved the main army, not the army next to Korinth.

I would strictly stick to the historical deployment of armies as soon as we are able to teach the AI for what reasons its armies are placed on such strange places. For example, I haven't seen the Greek FM on Crete recruiting some mercenaries and then return to the mainland. In most of the times that army just stands there for decades and the AI has no idea what to do with it. Therefore I had moved it to Greece in decr_strat.

I had tested a deployment in which Pyrrhos was on the position where Argos is. That was a desaster: Pyrrhos always moved by land back to Epeiros, causing a war with KH when nearing Thermon. Antigonos' army became pinned and stood next to Athens for years. And KH didn't do anything at all.

Any changes I make to descr_strat are to help the AI, in particular when it is not doing anything at all, or not what it should do, with the default settings. Or always fails in a task in which it should win without serious problems. Sometimes I might accidently end up with a more historical situation: for example I have made Taras rebell, so that the AI Romans can (and do!) take it in the first turns. That is correct because Taras was not part of the Epeirote kingdom but her ally, whom Pyrrhos had allready abondoned in 272.

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I made the decr_start.txt alteration's but should I test with your script??? Is it compatible with new 1 fix release that bovi added yesterday?

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The new script isn't made so far. It will be linked to the VCs and give money for not controlling (or losing) VC-towns. That are a lot of code command to be made (about 10 for every faction). May be after Christmas.

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Konny - have in mind that only by using ai_attack option we are solving most of the problems with AI expansion already..:shrug: So, the scrpt that you are modding should have that in mind..

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The victory conditions, changed descr_strat and changed money script are not only to be played with the ALX.exe. The not_attack command makes several things a lot easyer, for example keeping the Seleucids away from their lesser Kingdoms, and Epeiros and Makedonia out of the Balkans as long as they are at war with each other. All other AI factions, unfortuantly, have to be "guided" to where their homelands are.

I have a solution for some ot those issues
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/...rstturngs3.jpg
https://img257.imageshack.us/img257/...rndaciayh0.jpg
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/...3371821rl8.jpg
https://img112.imageshack.us/img112/...7623373fw4.jpg
https://img257.imageshack.us/img257/...1803362qu0.jpg
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/...1146891cq7.jpg
https://img112.imageshack.us/img112/...3548573yo6.jpg

The tweaked *txt files are descr_start.txt (added just couple of wall's and a bit more army to one army of Pontos, Dacia, Carthage at Sicily, AS in Antioch, ... you will see, and ai_attack options but not to all faction's.. you can see it) and C_script.txt (that added the army/royal barrack's to capitol's exept some faction's you can see it - it really boosted the Ai expansion's)

I will linky you in PM so you can test and say what yo uthink (like - test only with casse and you will see the boost)

Ok, I will go honestly 100% with you my friend's (Konny, MiniMe and Lgk by now) - I am adding this as I said to MiniMe -
What do I expect for 'AlexEBMod'?

I want it to be as 'real' as posible! Pure and simple!

By that I mean (I would like anyway's) that 'AlexEBMod' tweak's all aspect of the game to make it more interesting, historical, challenging, pretty and playable... We need to invest effort's and trust among members:yes:

I personaly belive that some of 'my' ideas should be in no matter what... but I wont push it if you guy's are not for it..:stwshame:

You manly now my ideas that are used in one great number of RTW mod's~:yin-yang:
One of them is 'AdvancedCityMod' that would enable for capitol's and in total town's it would allow that about 20% to be huge, 30% large, 40% city and the rest.. That would also comply to barrack's and some high-end building's also large wall's.. etc.. I have that idea already developed and ready to implement in term's of hour's.. I would really want that to be a part of the mod.. .. I would also tweak some bonuses for building's that have none... etc also..

I think we should share the work.. and don't interfere much in what the other one is making.. what to you think :shrug:



And I would like that we all have nice litle pictures in our signaturea like EB team :curtain:

One more thing... And this is not really for a debate - this should be in no matter what - please!

Look, you know when Lgk said about the 1,2 Hit point's for Horse Archers because they are really underpowered in autocalsulation's ??? And that that' is keeping them alweys in the stepe's no matter what?
And EB 1.1 will have that tweak too so HA could have some real power in autocalc. as they have in real battle!..
Can you think of any 'other' unit that is underpowered in autocalculation's if the AI is playing??? Think?? Any??..

No???

Well I will tell you one! It is the reason KHellenon alway's takes Greece - BECAUSE - phalanx in underpowered against hoplites in autocalc - you can see it for your self.. Makedon looses every time no matter what! I just got a spy in greece and found that KH classic and regular hoplites are killing Makedonian elite phalanx easy as hell! And we all know that human player beats hoplites with phalanx much more easily than phalanx with hoplites!?:shrug:

Just think for one moment.. How come that HArcehers need's the HP up to 1.2(btw that only helps in autocalc..) and no other unit does?? Because no body implemented it yet! No body ever implemented the 1.2 hp for HA only to keep it real.. So in Greece and in Italy - phalanx always looses to fast against more mobile but really weaker infantry (at least if you use it)..

I don't know about the Celtic or germanic wrld of EB - but I am 100% sure some unit's need some tweak's for the sake of AI expansion's:boxing:

Well, I am right :(

https://img101.imageshack.us/img101/...8277117ur0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

One of them is 'AdvancedCityMod' that would enable for capitol's and in total town's it would allow that about 20% to be huge, 30% large, 40% city and the rest.. That would also comply to barrack's and some high-end building's also large wall's.. etc.. I have that idea already developed and ready to implement in term's of hour's.. I would really want that to be a part of the mod.. .. I would also tweak some bonuses for building's that have none... etc also..

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I have absolutly no idea what this has to do with the ALX.exe. The towns will grow and grow and grow regardless what engine you play. I do not like the idea of limiting all save for some random towns in growth. And it is random because the towns that get the ability only get it because of their historical size according to their importance later in our time frame.

That makes no sense in EB in which we don't have a faction that will by guarantee win. In RTW we had 4 Roman factions and it is evident that usually they will controll the map after some time what makes it logical that Rome (the city) should be able to become larger than other towns.

In EB Rome might as well become an Epeirote provincial town ruled by the vice-king in Taras in 265 BC. Why should it have the opportunity to become larger than Capua in this case? It would be of no importance for the people outside Latium.

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Well I will tell you one! It is the reason KHellenon alway's takes Greece - BECAUSE - phalanx in underpowered against hoplites in autocalc - you can see it for your self.. Makedon looses every time no matter what

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Makedonia also raises large numbers of Hoplites in Demetrias and even larger numbers of Haploi in Chalkis, Mytilene and Pella. So, that cannot be the reason for the Maks tendency to lose the war. It is first of all the fact that they start at war with KH, Epeiros and Getai, and, as if it would not be enough, they tend to spend their armies on stupid assaults on Serdike, Tylis, Byzantion and Thermon.

Look at your picture: Makedonia has an army that would be strong enough to finish the Greeks off, but they use it to attack Thermon what has the strongest garrison in the entire region. Even if they succed (and it looks like they did this time) their army is so much reduced that they won't be able even to defend their territories for several years.

Forbid them to attack the rebells as long as KH controlls Sparta and Athens and Epeiros controlls Appollonia and Epidamnos. Give them these towns as targets and you'll see that they are well able to defend themselves.

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Originally Posted by konny

I have absolutly no idea what this has to do with the ALX.exe. The towns will grow and grow and grow regardless what engine you play. I do not like the idea of limiting all save for some random towns in growth. And it is random because the towns that get the ability only get it because of their historical size according to their importance later in our time frame.

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Well, no, that is not what I had in mind :no:. What you say is true if you look at the MAA CityMod - I used the the term 'AdvancedCityMod' because I wanted to introduce the 'catch' - the idea..

If you read my post's (and I am sure you do) carefuly, you can see that I did not mean to 'use' MAA CityMod but to make 'new' one - That would have Huge/Large ability for all Capitol's in descr_start.txt (that means in every faction's capital - and that is not in MAA that uses explicit historical notes) and surely much more in general, also, at the time we play the game - all is ''already set'' to be!

And this is not about the engine - it's about the gameplay:shrug:

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Originally Posted by konny

That makes no sense in EB in which we don't have a faction that will by guarantee win. In RTW we had 4 Roman factions and it is evident that usually they will controll the map after some time what makes it logical that Rome (the city) should be able to become larger than other towns.

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If we look from the ''Casse'' testing sreen's - yes, yes I think we can know what faction will win:shrug:..and even if you play as one and ''reverse'' the spin of 'sure winers' - you will not be able to address with your armies all around the map - but more likely in a couple of region's

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Originally Posted by konny

In EB Rome might as well become an Epeirote provincial town ruled by the vice-king in Taras in 265 BC. Why should it have the opportunity to become larger than Capua in this case? It would be of no importance for the people outside Latium.

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Most BIG towns and settlement's were BIG are BIG and will be BIG for centuries to come! Why? The answer is - not because of their 'historical size according to their importance in diferent times' - it's because of the Geostrategical and Geopolitical importance of the regions during the history (thus defined by Geographycal and Geoeconomical importance) ..

That is pure science I study for year's - it's just that my focus is on modern times... anyway's

Imagine why was Corintos (or Alexandria or Constantinopol or Antioch or any 'sea city') so important between 500bc and the tehnological revolution in late 19 century? because of the 'trade route' it controled (before the mass railways that came after 1850) - Corintos was one BIG city for every faction in every century (even when Turk's came) just because of it's economical importance - but since that importance is connected to the geoposition of Corintos on the map, economic science call's it Geoeconomical importance..

Off-course the importance of those town's was shaken by Industrial Revolution and Tehnological revolution - To make it simple.. just look at one historic Atlas and see the ''no matter'' who is where! The cities I want to meke 'resource Huge/Large' are cities that were big for many many centuries ... Just look at it - Roman's did not cahnge Antioch use and neither did the Crusaider's ..

The same goes for Alexandria and Carthage (that control's passage of Mediterranean.. and Thessloniki because it supplies the 'iner Balkans' from the sea.. even today.. Then - not to say all settlement's that control 'silk route'..
I mean there are very good reasons why most of the town's that are HUGE TODAY - WERE HUGE 2000 years age :shrug: Other's in Western Europe became Huge because of those Revolution and IMPERIALISM - now, here are the argument's to make capitol's Huge - If you have an Impery - you supply your center no matter what


And to note -- After Alexander's death, only Constantine the Great managed to build one Megapolis that could be defined as Huge - that is historic note for Europe, so, there is no sence to belive that ANY faction of EB time could and can ''Change'' importance of cities as they wish - that did not happen, and also, the city was taken mostly because of its Geo-importance..

Hope you understand - Those thing's are part of what I studied it's just that English is not my native so sorry if I did not made myself clear :san_grin:

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Originally Posted by konny

Makedonia also raises large numbers of Hoplites in Demetrias and even larger numbers of Haploi in Chalkis, Mytilene and Pella. So, that cannot be the reason for the Maks tendency to lose the war. It is first of all the fact that they start at war with KH, Epeiros and Getai, and, as if it would not be enough, they tend to spend their armies on stupid assaults on Serdike, Tylis, Byzantion and Thermon.

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No, In this cases they fought only Epeir and KH and loosed most of their battles against KH -do KH had Royl Barracks in Sparta - he did not used Spartan's at all :no: - I only saw 2 unit's with my spy total!
Anyways 20%-40% of Makedonian infantry are always phalanx - phalanx that KH does not have so ... no, their ability to raise hoplies is not importan here - because 20-40% of Makedon army are phalanx

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Originally Posted by konny

Look at your picture: Makedonia has an army that would be strong enough to finish the Greeks off, but they use it to attack Thermon what has the strongest garrison in the entire region. Even if they succed (and it looks like they did this time) their army is so much reduced that they won't be able even to defend their territories for several years.

Forbid them to attack the rebells as long as KH controlls Sparta and Athens and Epeiros controlls Appollonia and Epidamnos. Give them these towns as targets and you'll see that they are well able to defend themselves.

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For that script work - I will leave to you .. because it would have no sence for all of use working on the same *txt.

And, no matter what we make in the script - the phalanx is sill much much underpowered agains no-phalanx infantry in autocalculation's - That goes for HArcher's too and even for general's ..:shrug:

belive me.. the script is not the only solution.. :no:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

Well, no, that is not what I had in mind :no:. What you say is true if you look at the MAA CityMod - I used the the term 'AdvancedCityMod' because I wanted to introduce the 'catch' - the idea..

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That's what I mean: It has nothing to do with the ALX.exe and therefore should not be part of ALX-mod.

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Most BIG towns and settlement's were BIG are BIG and will be BIG for centuries to come! Why? The answer is - not because of their 'historical size according to their importance in diferent times' - it's because of the Geostrategical and Geopolitical importance of the regions during the history (thus defined by Geographycal and Geoeconomical importance) ..

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Really? Before it became the German capital in 1871 Berlin was a mere lesser town if not an oversized village. Nowadays it has three times more inhabitans than Cologne or Hamburg, what were the largest and most important German cities in 1871. There are no traditional trade routes going through Berlin, the region has no important ressources and it has neither access to the sea or a major river.

Byzantion was quite an important town in 270 BC, but that was nothing compared to the Mediaval Byzantion. Because the Bosperos did not move in those 1000 years, it is clear that its new political meaning brought the growth.

And I simply doubt that Rome would have crossed the 1,000,000 line in Ancient times if it was not for the Roman Empire; or Carthago if she had not decided to support military other Phoenician colonies and by this became hegemon of the Western Poeni.

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Other's in Western Europe became Huge because of those Revolution and IMPERIALISM - now, here are the argument's to make capitol's Huge - If you have an Impery - you supply your center no matter what

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Exactly what I say: If there is no Empire, no one would be able to support the city and make it more hughe than neighbouring cities with the same regional meaning. Just count the former hughe cities in the Levante of the past 5,000 years that are now covered with dust.

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And to note -- After Alexander's death, only Constantine the Great managed to build one Megapolis that could be defined as Huge - that is historic note for Europe, so, there is no sence to belive that ANY faction of EB time could and can ''Change'' importance of cities as they wish

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That does somehow not really match with useing Antiochia as an example of a hughe city "by all rights"?

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Originally Posted by konny

That's what I mean: It has nothing to do with the ALX.exe and therefore should not be part of ALX-mod.

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Konny, see

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We announce first update to Alex.exe engine fact's specified for modding on Alexander - Total War for EB, with unique Features List:

a) Alexander draws off of RTW and not BI (you do not even need BI installed), though you do need to make sure RTW is patched to 1.5 before installing Alexander. So BI features (swimming, shieldwall, schiltrom, loyalty, religion, etc.) are not inherent within it.
b) Victory conditions can state a "survivor" which requires that a specific unique character survive in order for that faction to remain in the game; however, We are not sure if that can be used for anyone other than the initial 'Alexander' character. Needs more testing.
c) Mercenaries can be designated as ''faction-specified'' in the campaign merc pool file. In ALX.exe, you can specify regional mercenaries to be recruitable only by certain factions.

d) ''Descr_Model_Battle.txt'' model's entries are increaseded from RTW/BI's 250 max (to at least 330+)
e) AI can be instructed in the ''Descr_Start'' file not to attack certain factions (unless at war already). There is ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' in ''descr_strat'', which prohibits the AI to attack certain factions, except when they're at war!
f) Immortality trait can ensure that named characters do not die of natural causes!
g) However, ALX.exe cannot use the features of BI such as hording, shield wall, schilstrom and swimming.
j) The next big thing is, of course, the unique general models. You can have battle and strat model and portraits that cannot be used by any other general in the game.

We can use specific campaign models, battle models and portraits for all the initial characters.
This is the example of entry in ''descr_strat'':

character Denethor, named character, leader, age 50, , x 149, y 80, portrait denethor, strat_model denethor, battle_model denethor

The biggest difference between ALX.exe and vanilla or BI.exe are the hard coded limit's on DMB. There are confirmation's that some mod's based on ALX.exe have more that 330. - BI and vanilla are limited to 250 entries.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

These are the only thing's and features that have to do with Alex.exe
If we look at it that way - we might just add the ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' option's for some faction's, add 'NightBattleCapable 1'' trait's to some generals in ''descr_start.txt'' + some new DMB model's that likely no one will make - and period?! That is all that has to do with Alex.mod - Everything else is EB team supported :gah:

Even the EBBS that you are modding and that we will all vote to get in is not directly connected to Alex.exe:no:
But see it this way - I trust you so I don't have to go inside your hand made EBBS so I could comment - but maybe Lgk would? Or MiniMe? We don't know that :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Really? Before it became the German capital in 1871 Berlin was a mere lesser town if not an oversized village. Nowadays it has three times more inhabitans than Cologne or Hamburg, what were the largest and most important German cities in 1871. There are no traditional trade routes going through Berlin, the region has no important ressources and it has neither access to the sea or a major river.

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I will tell you why Berlin (and Mostly whole North and Central Europe) does not fit in our EB game - because Berlin is located in eastern Germany near Poland in an area that was shaped by ice sheet during the last Ice Age! See now? Last ice age is why part's of Europe that were under it do not comply in EB vision of Hellenic/Eastern trade world that passed Ice age much Before -

You can count Berlin to be 'Geostrategicaly' important from the time some state wanted to Expand! - That is Prussia - and Berlin was capitol of Prussia form 1700 and before importan for Teutonic's (so that is a part of my idea for ACM - faction's capital's should always have the ability to grow). So If you look at Berlin - he is the centar of German people and ALL invader's from 1700-2007 (even Napoleon and Stalin tough the same)

And just about Hamburg here - Charles the Great founded Hamburg in about 800 AD as a defence against Slavic invasion's .. It was so important that Barbarossa granted Hamburg as Free City and tax free - he had trade routes in North Sea and Baltic - he was a major port in Northern Europe. He made League of Hansa and was in Hand's of Denmark, Napoleon, and Russian's and He was most importan!

And during the time ''After Revolutin's in Europe' during the second half of the 19 century - Hamburg was 3 port in Europe by Atlantic Trade. One of the world' largest transatlantic shipping companies were in Hamburg

All this made the great ''HAMBURG IDEA'' - Geopilitical tool of Germanic elite's that was suppressed by other Imperial power's (mostly England and France)

After WW I Germany lost her colonies and Hamburg lost many of its trade routes. During WW II Bombing of Hamburg was catastrophic and Iron Curtain separated the city from most of its interland and reduceds Hamburg's trade share.

After 1990 and when Baltic States joned EU in 2004, Hamburg has ambition as major commercial and trading centre. I belive that he will beat Rotherdam in about 10-15 years :shrug: the Same will go for Saint Petersburg but after 30 year's..

You can see that Hamburg is not capital only because he suffered so much in the last 60 year's but betwean 1000-1900 he was Huge! - and he will be huge again (you can consider it to grow in EB after you 'exterminate' the settlement that should the recover - those year's until you have it in ''full'' economic use - are those 90-80 year's for example)

And after the Tehnological Revolution railways can connect everything very nice to any land capital and vice versa..
It's just that Rome is not important as it was but that is because some very advanced states colapsed under the 'exoduses' of their times - the fall of WRoman Empire is compared to WWars .. so thign's can't be the same any more.. But Rome lasted for about 1000 year's as Huge.. But Alexandria last's over 2000 years!

Still Hamburg will be economic center once more you will see - his Geoeconomic postion is irreplaceable

I can tell you something more about my Belgrade? in short -
Just look at the map's - there was life in belgrade 8000bc - .. Singidunum of Roman times was the center of the region - until Now - that is from 150bc-2007 - over 200 years! Do you know that Belgarde has about 2 000 000 people? - It's because people from All ower the Balkan's caome to live 'in the center' even from Croatia, Bosnia and Albania..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geopolitics

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Byzantion was quite an important town in 270 BC, but that was nothing compared to the Mediaval Byzantion. Because the Bosperos did not move in those 1000 years, it is clear that its new political meaning brought the growth.

---

It was called Constantinopolis form the foundation until 1453 ! Even the Crusaiders that took the town in 1204 called it Constantinopolis for 60 years until it fell in Romanoi hand's again - and it is called Istanbul - it's called only Byzantium in The West!

Secondly - East Roman Empire was even more powerfull in mediaval times because it had Constantinopl that was cultural center of Christianity until Renaissance and his fall in 1453 - First Carolingian Renaissance accured only because Charles wanted help from Bosforus and Roman's and Greek's so he got his Palatine Chapel in Aachen that was build as a mark of his Renaissance by Greek's ..
And Second Renaissance acured mostly becasue Consantinople fall and becasue the Turk's sold all the book's from the Bosforus - to Venice and Italian cities - then came the Assimilation of Greek and Arabic knowledge - And The Renaissance - even Columbos found America after he was inspired by an ancient greek script for Constantinopl:shrug: it began in Italy, and then spreaded to the rest of Europe by the end of 16th century..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

And I simply doubt that Rome would have crossed the 1,000,000 line in Ancient times if it was not for the Roman Empire; or Carthago if she had not decided to support military other Phoenician colonies and by this became hegemon of the Western Poeni.

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The Rome lasted that long and had about 2 500 000 people living in it when Empire was at it's top - But then came invasion's from the East.. so.. that is compared to some 'VERY major' event's - but not the EB campaign, And YES - if in 272bc Rome was taken by other state - he would heve been BIG and HUGE - unless you kill all people that lived there in that time! You know that Greece and AsiaMinor sufferd much untill 272 - becasue of constant wars, but not Latinum (until Punic) - he had population and option's to conquer the World.. You see that Carthage is a nice example of how one BIG city stay's BIG onder Roman's - SEE? Roman's just used akready BIG cities that stayed BIG until the break of the Empire - all the way to 1453 :san_grin:

The point is - modern times can not be compared as such to ancient - becasue in anceint times - Cities that did not have some MAJOR water (read - trade) connection - never were Large :no: But that does not stand for CAPITOL's (or cities that managed silk trade) - because if you have an Empire you can drain it to build cities that you want..:ballchain:

But today you can manage infrastructure and make anything the way you like - Just look how much WestGermany invested in the EastGermany form the 1990 - it was over 50 bilion's Euro's a year and it broke the European Monetary System that lasted from 1979 - only after that EU was created to 'make order' in monetary EU .. so after 1999 - we have Euro. Similar thing happened to Roman Empire after Constantine..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Exactly what I say: If there is no Empire, no one would be able to support the city and make it more hughe than neighbouring cities with the same regional meaning. Just count the former hughe cities in the Levante of the past 5,000 years that are now covered with dust.

That does somehow not really match with useing Antiochia as an example of a hughe city "by all rights''

---

Empires are MADE of Huge cities,
Huge City lives by it self - Greek City states are good example - even Hamburg or .. Pergamum that managet to make a successor kingdom.. That goes for Antiohia - There would not be one Seleucid Empire without the ''Greek support'' that can trough Antiohia - think about that - it is not as simple as one may see .. Seleucd's mostly supported the Hellenic settler's and most of them Would never come to Seleucid Empire from Greece if There is no sea connection.. even more - it would be more likely that Selucid would have Eastern people as their king's it There were no Greek ones in Antiohia..


..

..

Anyway's,

I understand what you are saying, I respect that! But the fact that makes me wanna killl my CPU is when I see that even that some little settlement on the map with no sea or big river connection or major trede route or any importance IS HUGE - the engine can not manage all factor's - and I will add

All my comment's on Advance City Mod are here because there is NO point IN HISTORY when ALL settement's in one region - for example ASIA MINOR - were Huge (in relative respect - huge as the game makes it - the game can not make Huge as for 500 000 inhabitant's becasue of the engine) -

Those comment's ARE very omportan in every decent RTW game Review!

Even EB team saw that and supported it! MMA updates it regulary:gah:

Now, If you don't accept my comment's and argument's, maybe it will be importan to know that I am not some Wiki and BBC amateur:no:

I have only my French I and II exams and I am officially ''Master of Geoeconimc's of Euroasia and EU'' - maybe you tihnk that becasue I am from Serbia I don't know much - I agree, Serbia is poor but Belgrade is BIG - in 10 year's he will be soule only Center in SE Europe - and belive me only the best pass in Belgrade (I have been told that after ambassador's lectures when I shaked hand's with ambassador's of Belgium, Russia, Spain, Brazil, Iran and China..)


So, either we can make 'my' (our) Advanced City Mod in the universal 'AlexEBMod' (that will go for RTW, BI and RTW.exe base EB games)
with one universal agreement or we can vote!

note: or we can use 'some parts of ACM'

- according to voting right's as folowing:

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
''If we can not agree - member's take decision's as following:

Any member can make a suggestion of what should be done!
Any member can demand other member's to vote for it
Any member and supporter can take a part in the vote

Voting Majority need's 50+1% of votes for some suggestion to be in the ''AlexEBMod''
It work's like this
1: All member's have an eaqul strength of the vote! They make 70% of the vote power: like 70% / 3 member's (Maks, Konny and Lgk) = 23,33% each
2: Supporters have 30% of the vote power (like 30% / 0 supporter's = 0%)
3: The veto right are reserved for the council member's!
So if one council member ''veto's'' the decision the only way that decision could be passed is if two member's of the council form a majority that would represent 50+1% of total vote's - that is 2/3 of Council majority + % of vote's that makes 50+1% total!

4: There should be at least one council member at the forum so that one decision could pass.. Decision's are taking place at the Org.

Anyway's, THE MAIN POINT IS TO ADD MORE COUNCIL MEMBER'S so we can all be in the 'AlexEBMod' council
- but we must know if you are going to comply with the ''membership''..''
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You can see that I cant make this through if I don't have your support or one from Lgk or MiniMe.. But : you, I, and Lgk can veto any decision and so will MiniMe:square: if all 3 of us (council) members agree that he can be in (if we want to add new council member - there is no majority for Council - we all need to agree - and + no one can be expeld from the Alex team without all thre member's of Council say yes)..

So, by that, We are yet to decide what will be IN the 'AlexEBMod' we make thing's now and before the release of download linke - WE VOTE ! !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

These are the only thing's and features that have to do with Alex.exe
If we look at it that way - we might just add the ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' option's for some faction's, add 'NightBattleCapable 1'' trait's to some generals in ''descr_start.txt'' + some new DMB model's that likely no one will make - and period?!

---

Yes, that's it. And not 30% of it is down so far.

Quote:

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Even the EBBS that you are modding and that we will all vote to get in is not directly connected to Alex.exe:no:

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Excatly. The VC modding and money scripts have their own threats. Changes to the script that do reset the "not_attack"-feature after some time are ALX, but should not require to download a new money script or a city mod (that's another project in an other threat)

Quote:

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I will tell you why Berlin (and Mostly whole North and Central Europe) does not fit in our EB game - because Berlin is located in eastern Germany near Poland in an area that was shaped by ice sheet during the last Ice Age! See now? Last ice age is why part's of Europe that were under it do not comply in EB vision of Hellenic/Eastern trade world that passed Ice age much Before

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I C E A G E??!!??

What has the Ice Age to do with the EB time frame? None of the cities, cultures or even people that we are talking about lived in the Ice Age or even close to it.

Quote:

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So If you look at Berlin - he is the centar of German people and ALL invader's from 1700-2007 (even Napoleon and Stalin tough the same)

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Absolutly not. Save for Prussia, who wasn't that important before 1815 and did not become something of an empire before 1866, Berlin was of no importance, neither politcal nor economical.

Quote:

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Still Hamburg will be economic center once more you will see - his Geoeconomic postion is irreplaceable

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Hamburg always was and still is amongst the most important sea trading towns in Europe. The thing is that Berlin managed to become three times bigger within just some years without any economic or geographic meaning.

Quote:

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- First Carolingian Renaissance accured only because Charles wanted help from Bosforus and Roman's and Greek's so he got his Palatine Chapel in Aachen that was build as a mark of his Renaissance by Greek's ..

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It was build by Odo von Metz (Frank not Greek).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Yes, that's it. And not 30% of it is down so far..

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As far as I am concern

"Survivor" can only be used (and maybe) for Pyrros.. so the action here is not in high peak - not important

''Mercenaries can be designated as ''faction-specified'' '' in the campaign is not needed but could be done - not that important:shrug:

''More DMB'' - none will be in if EB team does not give us the material to add it.. There are NO modeler's that want to work on this..

''Descr_Start'' file and ''ai_don_not_attack'' certain faction is done - I have uploade it for you (do there are some tweak's but you can see and copy paste only the ''ai_don_not_attack'' line) - done

''Immortality trait'' - done

''Unique general models'' - again, There are no modeler's that want to work on that.. I can only re-texture some so ... Gonatas would have a beard etc.:shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Excatly. The VC modding and money scripts have their own threats. Changes to the script that do reset the "not_attack"-feature after some time are ALX, but should not require to download a new money script or a city mod (that's another project in an other threat).

---

The point is Konny.. Lgk and I have agreed to make numerous of changes to many aspect of the game.. And you are here and you read the post's and now you are not clear with what was the idea of the mod? Do you read all the post's here???

Or do you tend to ignore what you don't like??

Maybe you are ignoring my calls to you to add the signature as all of us did - signatures that would lead other's to 'see' what EB team is doing - or just to lead them to the Alex.exe with EB instruction's thread! :gah:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

I C E A G E??!!??

What has the Ice Age to do with the EB time frame? None of the cities, cultures or even people that we are talking about lived in the Ice Age or even close to it.

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:gah:

The Last Ice age glacial advanced and reached its maximum in 15,000 BC - In Europe - ice sheet reached northern and central Germany. It mealted down completely after somewhat 10 000 years.. so you see that civilisantion's could not be developed in the palces people don't live.. BUT!

I wanted to say that you CAN't compare Germany that was under ice in the time Civilisations of Mediterranean existed - so comparation's of Berlin with Rome or Antioch are not in place.. because of Many many factors that were important after MidAges..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Absolutly not. Save for Prussia, who wasn't that important before 1815 and did not become something of an empire before 1866, Berlin was of no importance, neither politcal nor economical.

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I would not go into any socio-political debate here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Hamburg always was and still is amongst the most important sea trading towns in Europe. The thing is that Berlin managed to become three times bigger within just some years without any economic or geographic meaning.

---

Berlin's growth is comparable as the Growth of Paris and Belgrade, yet, you are refering to modern times that were effected by the TRevolution that resulted it... That would go as for the any capital city in the World and any in EB :square: .

It was build by Odo von Metz (Frank not Greek).[/QUOTE]

Charles the Great adored San Vitale he saw in Ravena that Roman's builted
during the existence of Exarchate of Ravenna in Italy. So Charles ordered Odo from Metz to designed Palatine chapel by copying the San Vitale from Ravena.. And even there he could not do it alone.. Then Charles gathered numerous Greek's and Roman's that new how to build it and had expirience in ERoman Empire - Odo was the pupil of Roman's from Constantinopl - and he could never build anything without Greek's in that time..

Anyway's It does not matter ... I adore the Palatine Chapel..

What does matter is !

That - we can make only engine features changes and upload them tomorow.. and we can call it a mod.. so It could be the LITE version..

But, I and Lgk and I think MiniMe would like numerous of changes that would go in 'Advanced AlexEBMod'.. and that does not have to be with ACMod I will make as opitional..

Ok?

Gentlemen
I don't see any sense in implementing any form of city mod with alex mod.
1. I'm completely satisfied with population growth as it is. In my current campaign after 320 turns (and that is typical average EB campaign length per my experience) cities population varies greatly. The majority of steppe settlements and northern europe forest villages are underpopulated as it should be, with some exeptions. The majority of mediterran coastal and middleeastern towns are big as it should. Many but not too much of them are huge. Such remarkable cities as Carthage, Rome, Capua, Alexandria, Babylon, Rodos are huge. Athenae and Ambrakia are big. Sparta and Syracusae are medium. Some shitty hole in the middle of the desert has total of 850. This kind of diversity (from 600 to 35000) looks fine to me. There already is some kind of population growth system in EB and me for sure is not able or willing to change it, cause it's working.
2. Anyway: EB building order is not linked to the amount of population! This means no city mod would be essential for the gameplay. I'm seriously thinking about (after discussing it with you) to implement further alterations to EDB (core building of certain level as a musthave prerequisite for MIC of certain level) but this is completely different issue that has nothing to do with city mod.
Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

The point is Konny.. Lgk and I have agreed to make numerous of changes to many aspect of the game.. And you are here and you read the post's and now you are not clear with what was the idea of the mod? Do you read all the post's here???

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I think that I have read most of your postings on EB here and in the TWC. And yes, I am aware of the changes you want to/did make to EB. And no, I do not understand what that (changing of unit stats, changing of settlemets, changing of money script, changing city growth) has to do with the ALX.exe.

Quote:

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The Last Ice age glacial advanced and reached its maximum in 15,000 BC - In Europe - ice sheet reached northern and central Germany. It mealted down completely after somewhat 10 000 years.. so you see that civilisantion's could not be developed in the palces people don't live.. BUT!

I wanted to say that you CAN't compare Germany that was under ice in the time Civilisations of Mediterranean existed - so comparation's of Berlin with Rome or Antioch are not in place.. because of Many many factors that were important after MidAges..

---

Are we talking about Ice Age Mediterranian cultures? I think that would be an interessting topic to talk about in general, but as long as it on EB we better should stick to scholary archeology. Or did I miss something in that calculation: the Ice Age ended about 10,000 BC and the cultures that did built all those hughe cities on the EB map did not exist before c. 800 BC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

This kind of diversity (from 600 to 35000) looks fine to me. There already is some kind of population growth system in EB and me for sure is not able or willing to change it, cause it's working.

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You can do simple changes by altering the base farming level of each province. It is extremly nerfed in EB from up to 14 maximum in RTW down to 3 or 4 maximum. The basic farming level is the reason why Karthago, for example, grows much faster than other towns.

Quote:

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I'm seriously thinking about (after discussing it with you) to implement further alterations to EDB (core building of certain level as a musthave prerequisite for MIC of certain level) but this is completely different issue that has nothing to do with city mod.

---

I see the point in it (villages should not have the abilities to raise high end elite units but just peasants).

The problem is that in the EB recruitement system the recruitement possiblities for every faction to raise elite units is limited to very few provinces each. Of these only some will reach a higher level to soon, others will stick to low-level towns for decades and so these factions will not be able to raise better units. I am thinking of Epeiros and Makedonia in particular. Or take KH for example: you'll probably never see Spartiates when she is required to advandce the town level in Sparta, for example, to 12,000 inhabitans before.

On the other hand the idea is tempting for units that represent some kind of self-equiped local militia and not professional soldiers equiped by the state or military settlers than can be placed everywhere. These levy forces can be for example linked to other buildings, not the MICs, whos construction would require to advance the town (for example improved farming, markets and some such).


------------------
EDIT
Example: I am just playing Karthago and use the Liby-Phoenician infantry (the Hoplites) and the respective cavalry plus the two Poeni citizen units to represent the local militia that is very much limited and can not be raised in larger numbers. Units like these can also be linked to other buildings (here better ports). You can also extend the region of recruitement for such units to allow Karthago, in our example, to raise these units everywhere in the Mediterranian where a large trading port was build, representing that these towns, when under Karthagian rule, will certainly have a large Poeni colony that will field its own militia.

I have updated the main post with a solution to a common bug many people had:yes:


That solution was originaly posted by Gerhard!:san_wink:

working.[/QUOTE]

I don't think EB system is working that good, that is why one powerful EB member made CityMod - still, one city mod is not a solution to my remarks:no:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

2. Anyway: EB building order is not linked to the amount of population! This means no city mod would be essential for the gameplay.

I'm seriously thinking about (after discussing it with you) to implement further alterations to EDB (core building of certain level as a musthave prerequisite for MIC of certain level) but this is completely different issue that has nothing to do with city mod.
Cheers

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The problem is not in EB building order and the fact it is not linked to the amount of population - the amount of population should not be much of a concern - It can vary in correspond to your and AI game - AI sometimes exterminates the population too :shrug:

Implementing alterations to EDB are welcome (in terms of adding bonuses to building's that dont have any and were very important - such as Academic building's, and add some recruitment's to some building's)
But..
Changing the 'core' like 'musthave' prerequisite for MIC of certain level is a completely different issue - still, it can solve some problem's but it can crate many more - like, that would be one major alteration that many player's wont like - including myself - that would mean that I 'must' invest in the 'core' if I want better infantry - that is not such a good solution for me, it would slow
ones expansion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

The majority of steppe settlements and northern europe forest villages are underpopulated as it should be, with some exeptions. The majority of mediterran coastal and middleeastern towns are big as it should. Many but not too much of them are huge. Such remarkable cities as Carthage, Rome, Capua, Alexandria, Babylon, Rodos are huge. Athenae and Ambrakia are big. Sparta and Syracusae are medium. Some shitty hole in the middle of the desert has total of 850. This kind of diversity (from 600 to 35000) looks fine to me.

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Everything of that is fine.. really - it is true (some sreenshots?), but did you read my post's here? I mean ALL my post's???
No body read's my post's whole :wall:

I posted pictures of various map's (betwean 200bc and 150bc) where ALL settlement's have:

1. Wall's or Large Wall's (about 90% of settlement's in Greece and West Asia and North Africa and Italy and Gaul)
2. Army or Royal barrack's (about 90% of settlement's in Greece and West Asia and North Africa and Italy and Gaul)
3. They are all Large or Huge (about 60%-70% of settlement's in Greece and West Asia and North Africa and Italy and Gaul)

The point is that : in 200bc and 150bc and 1bc and 500ad there were no more than a couple of Large and Huge Cities in Europe and West Asia, not to mentione Wall's and Big Barrack's..

One kind of City Mod could be a solution closer to realism - honestly, it would solve many issues that are like a fork into my eye:wall:

i will repost MAA word's with my comment's

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Features:
1.0:
-City sizes are restricted in most places with few being able to reach 'huge'.

In City mod there is HUGE resource for only couple of Cities that is about less then 5%, large are at about 10% ..etc and city for about 20%
I want to make it for 15% for Huge, 20% for Large and 30% for City resource
Which would go for Wall's too.. So this 65% of settlement's could have wall's

-Some buildings availabilty have been changed.
That would only be for some building's and barrack's - So Royal barrack's and Army barrack's would be able to exist along with Large wall's in Large and Huge cities - that is, in 35% of settlement's - not like 100% in EB
-Population growth decreased (mostly by removing most growth bonuses on buildings).
That we can implement anyway's
-Stone walls in less places (wooden still available everywhere). - that should be in.. by my opinion
-Roads available in less places (please post objections)... maybe that too, ..
-cunctator's First Cohort aspects. - we don't need that :laugh4:
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

So all cities that are usually Large and Huge will be in any alteration's but, for example - that would not address to ALL cities in Asia Minor - just a couple ..

One solution aside the ACM (and that would work for me too) is to make all big ancient cities of that time (in 272bc) much bigger with infrastructure that can reflect realism (like one EB member said - ''If we are to make it historicly correct - some cities should have no building browser at all - they should be developed at Maximum at te start - or near maximum - like Alexadria and Athen's and Carthage and Pergammum.. etc)

Then we make the CORE and some HIGH-end buildind's construction times like 4-5 times longer so that AI expansion is slower (becasue sometimes he just can't control it self)

And I insist that you think about both option's - they can only bring to realism..

Anyway's we can make Lite and Optional addon's .. see..:san_grin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

You can do simple changes by altering the base farming level of each province. It is extremly nerfed in EB from up to 14 maximum in RTW down to 3 or 4 maximum. The basic farming level is the reason why Karthago, for example, grows much faster than other towns.

---

That would be good solutina along with some population growth bonuses..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

I see the point in it (villages should not have the abilities to raise high end elite units but just peasants).

The problem is that in the EB recruitement system the recruitement possiblities for every faction to raise elite units is limited to very few provinces each. Of these only some will reach a higher level to soon, others will stick to low-level towns for decades and so these factions will not be able to raise better units. I am thinking of Epeiros and Makedonia in particular. Or take KH for example: you'll probably never see Spartiates when she is required to advandce the town level in Sparta, for example, to 12,000 inhabitans before.

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I agree with that..

and..

Hello :gah:

I am talking about that for 7 days now. Villages and small town's should not have the abilities to raise high end elite's - but the barrack's system enables that - so the only thing we can do is to ADD hidden_resource's for the highe end Barrack's like Army/Royal/City to 50% totla rather then to 100% vanilla total region's able to build them

note: I added the Royal barrack's in Sparta so Spartiates can use Spartan's from the start (not like after 50-60 turn's)

Still, On VH AI find's it expensive to raise Spartan's so in my test's when KH destroyed Makedonia - AI had only 4 unit's of Spartan's in whole Greece..

I think I know why - I think AI calculates better on Alex.exe so he find's the cost and effectivenes of some elites - not so important vice versa medium infantry and their cost and use value :square:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

On the other hand the idea is tempting for units that represent some kind of self-equiped local militia and not professional soldiers equiped by the state or military settlers than can be placed everywhere. These levy forces can be for example linked to other buildings, not the MICs, whos construction would require to advance the town (for example improved farming, markets and some such).

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I am for that.. it could be very nice:square:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

------------------
EDIT
Example: I am just playing Karthago and use the Liby-Phoenician infantry (the Hoplites) and the respective cavalry plus the two Poeni citizen units to represent the local militia that is very much limited and can not be raised in larger numbers. Units like these can also be linked to other buildings (here better ports). You can also extend the region of recruitement for such units to allow Karthago, in our example, to raise these units everywhere in the Mediterranian where a large trading port was build, representing that these towns, when under Karthagian rule, will certainly have a large Poeni colony that will field its own militia.

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I agree.. that can work nice..:san_wink:

Loving EB on Alex.exe. Particularly good is the garrison retraining.
Syracusa for example, in 250BC has been the subject of numerous sieges by Karthadast and I believe Rome once or twice. My spy informs me that there are several units of triple silver chevron Syracusan Hoplites and units of Classical Hoplites and Greek Noble Cavalry with multiple chevrons, all nicely at full strength ready for the filthy foreign invaders :smash:

Having kept an eye on the area for a while I can guarantee the AI has not cheated, these guys started as inexperienced troops and have been retrained after every failed attack. Syracusa is currently a Large City and looks set to make it as the first 'rebel' massive city.
Messalia to the north has similarly repelled multiple foreign invasions and has full strength troops that are set to become a fearsom force. And yes, the population of the regions seems to drop with unit retraining!

I am glad you like the engine, still, those retreining's :wall:
It took me much longer to take Asia Minor as AS and Aegypt retrained all the way - And I have noticed that AI uses his resources much better - for example he start's to use more elites when he is in war or is attacked by ... me:yes: .. also when he is in trouble - but when he developes he tends to have an army he can upkeep with all kind's of unit's - that is a different story when he get's attacked - then you must break many 'hard walls' :wall:


it's not easy do :ballchain:

First i will thank you for the work you made for us


:wall: i have a problem with the way to make playable

first i made a copy of my unmodded alx.
then i install eb1+the permanent fixes
then the files for eb10alx
then i change the shortcut on my dektop to
W:\spiele\EB1ALX\RomeTW-ALX.exe -mod:eb -show_err
and try to start but something is wrong
please help me:help: :help: :help:

What is wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

1.0:
-City sizes are restricted in most places with few being able to reach 'huge'.

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No. Arguments above.

Quote:

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-Some buildings availabilty have been changed.
That would only be for some building's and barrack's - So Royal barrack's and Army barrack's would be able to exist along with Large wall's in Large and Huge cities - that is, in 35% of settlement's - not like 100% in EB

---

Makedonia would be much limited in raising the following units for most of the game:

Pheraspides
Lonchophoroi Hippeis
Hysteroi Pezhetairoi
Hetairoi Aspidophoroi
Argyraspides
Agrianikoi Pelekuphoroi
Hypaspistai
Hetairoi

The same would be for Epeiros, but not for AS and Ptolemaioi. That would seriously unblanace the game. Top level barracks build by the AI in places where it cannot raise any Level V factional units do not matter.

Quote:

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-Population growth decreased (mostly by removing most growth bonuses on buildings).

---

Population is allready very, very low in EB and groth extremly reduced. Most Eleutheroi settlements and about all the smaller factions have drafted for the army about 150% of their population after some years of gaming.

I do not consider these numbers realistic and would rather go the other way around.

Raising base farming would lead to:
- more income by farming
- higher population
- improved economy
- more unrest and so slower expansion of both human and AI
- no need for the scripted population-replentish and so a leaner script
- may be also lesser money help for the AI factions?

Quote:

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-Stone walls in less places (wooden still available everywhere). - that should be in.. by my opinion

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Save for those towns that cannot build stonewalls allready in EB (for example the Sweboz settlements), it would be absolutly unrealistic for a Polis of any meaning in those days to be defended by nothing but a wooden fence. Medium stonewalls should be the minimum for most of these settlements and hughe ones should be very common too. Before Alexander, sieges usually failed and even after him only very few conquerers were able to take a settlement other than by starving it out.

Quote:

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-Roads available in less places (please post objections)... maybe that too, ..

---

The same as above. Roads of varing quality were very common everywhere and it would be very unrealisitic if that would not appear in EB.

Works like a charm. ALEX is sooo much better for EB than the original RTW

this mod looks very good, and i an to really try it out, but, as most know, am in the middle of an AAR, and dont ant to restart. i probably overlooked s/t, but is this save-game compatable? i dont have BI.exe installed, but i do hae TWFanatics minimod installed.
and do i need to buy Alexander? the instructions werent very clear.
speaking of clarity, IMO, the instructions werent very clear at all, at least for me. :sad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hooahguy14

this mod looks very good, and i an to really try it out, but, as most know, am in the middle of an AAR, and dont ant to restart. i probably overlooked s/t, but is this save-game compatable? i dont have BI.exe installed, but i do hae TWFanatics minimod installed.

---

Changing the exe is savegame compatible. Changes in descr_start are not, because they are only read once when starting a new campaing. So, you can play with the ALX.exe benefiting from the better AI but you cannot use nightbattles.

Because of the "immortal"-issue it is anyway better to start a new campaign because changing the trait file mid-game might mess up all traits so far aquired by your characters.

Quote:

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and do i need to buy Alexander?

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Yes, because you need the ALX.exe and chatfilter.san from that programm.

[QUOTE=Nom]
then the files for eb10alx
QUOTE]

Do you mean the download link's?? - They are updated...

And thank you for suppot .)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hooahguy14

this mod looks very good, and i an to really try it out, but, as most know, am in the middle of an AAR, and dont ant to restart. i probably overlooked s/t, but is this save-game compatable? i dont have BI.exe installed, but i do hae TWFanatics minimod installed.
and do i need to buy Alexander? the instructions werent very clear.
speaking of clarity, IMO, the instructions werent very clear at all, at least for me. :sad:

---

Anyway, this is not a mod - the mod thread is in a sub-forum, but thank you - this thread only 'guides' EB fan's how to play EB vanill with Alex.exe engine :shrug:

And you only need Alexander and RTW + patches to use ALX.exe for EB :curtain:

That lag on the campaign map when scrolling with the keyboard keys can be fixed by deleting portions of the EBB script. I removed the client ruler portion, for example, and it makes the game much more playable while scrolling. Reduces game turns as well.

Konny, you have wrong quotas '' Originally Posted by Maksimus
1.0:
-City sizes are restricted in most places with few being able to reach 'huge'.''
It was Originally Posted by MMAntonius - not me, so I don't agree with that.
But I do agree with: ''That would only be for some building's and barrack's - So Royal barrack's and Army barrack's would be able to exist along with Large wall's in Large and Huge cities - that is, in 35% of settlement's - not like 100% in EB''
This means that there should be only 1/3 ot the settlement's in which each faction can build Army or Royal barracks.. What's not right with that? Do you know that army and royal barrack's even in AS Empire were rare and only existed (I think during the whole period of AS existence) in Antioh and Seleucia.. and one minor in the East??? - did you know that Alexandria was true and mostly only center where Aegypt drawed any unit's at all? And you still want them to have Army barracks everywhere ?? - That is pure fantasy ! Do I respect your opinion - the fact is that Huge and Large Cities and Army and Royal barracks were VERY very rare - manly one or two per state - not more!:wall:

By that I say that your Arguments above are not refering to any fact or historic reference that would counter the calims about urealistic city size's that are all large and/or Huge in EB vanilla (in areas such as AsiaMinor) untill 100bc - THAT IS EVEN WIDELY ACCEPTED in EB team and most of RTW modding projects! Do I really have to drain maps and upload them here so you can SEE that there were only a COUPLE OF HUGE CITIES in the Euro-World until 18-19 century??!

''Makedonia would be much limited in raising the following units for most of the game''

I think you still don't understand what I am talking about for day's here:viking:
Look! ... Makedonia can train Elite Phalanx in 11 regions: Pella, Demetrias, Pergammum, Sardis, Halikarnasus, Alexandreia, Antioch, Babylon, Seleucia, Cypros and the region at Persian Sea..

SO - We enable the Royal Army ability FOR MAKEDONIA in: Pella, Pergammum, Alexandreia, Antioh, Babylon, Seleucia, now....., Alexandria, Pella, Antioch and Pergammum can also raise Hetairoi for example ..
- What did we do?? We just made 50% less region's where they can use elites - and if you count that AI build's barrack's in short time period's (relatively) this is the only solution if you don't want to come across ROYAL's ALL around - which is stupid -
But if we count that Pella has Army barrack's at the start - then It will matter less!

''The same would be for Epeiros, but not for AS and Ptolemaioi. That would seriously unblanace the game. Top level barracks build by the AI in places where it cannot raise any Level V factional units do not matter. ''

The same explanation for Makedon goes for Epeiros too (do, due to the MIC shared system.. I am not sure Alex enables more building's to use??)

It would not unbalance the game, remmeber when you said that adding Army barracks to capitols will unbalance the game? - Well it didn't - that helped AI expansion and better balance and gamplay
I agree about Level V factional unit's..
That is why EVERY FACTION COULD have ROYAL in places THEY CAN USE THE BEST OF THEIR UNIT'S -- I would never consider to make Aegypt NOT have royal barrack's building ability in areas they can raise Hetairoi!
All my test's are according to the ::Recruitment viewer:: - so there could be no mistake


Population is allready very, very low in EB and groth extremly reduced. Most Eleutheroi settlements and about all the smaller factions have drafted for the army about 150% of their population after some years of gaming.

I do not consider these numbers realistic and would rather go the other way around.

I agree about the Raising base farming.. it's ok..

''Save for those towns that cannot build stonewalls allready in EB (for example the Sweboz settlements), it would be absolutly unrealistic for a Polis of any meaning in those days to be defended by nothing but a wooden fence. Medium stonewalls should be the minimum for most of these settlements and hughe ones should be very common too. Before Alexander, sieges usually failed and even after him only very few conquerers were able to take a settlement other than by starving it out.''

:gah:

W...whhh.. why didn't you backed me up when I said that due to realism - ALL Polises - and cities (for example almost ALL town's in AsiaMinor, Aegypt, Greece and Italy and some others) SHOULD have stone wall's from the start and that goes for more and more infrastructure that some cities HAVE TO HAVE more infrastructure from the start! Like almost all Hellenic cities should have SEWER's:shrug: + other thing's they had - like theater's (the one in Corintos and Pergammum were among greatest)...


The Road's should have no changes - but that is your remark to MAA word's - not mine!:gah:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

I think that I have read most of your postings on EB here and in the TWC. And yes, I am aware of the changes you want to/did make to EB. And no, I do not understand what that (changing of unit stats, changing of settlemets, changing of money script, changing city growth) has to do with the ALX.exe.

---

I missed this..

Ok, maybe I did not made myself clear - I called you and Lgk to form a team that would make EB 'mini-mod' that will work manly on Alex.exe, and that it would be called 'Alexander EB Mod' and that it would be discussed here..

I never said that the mod development will only be about tweak's based on just a couple of Advanced ALX.exe option's :no:
Those tweak's are so small and simple that I can upload 'core' of them - AND THAT IS ONLY ''ai_not_attack faction'' tweak - tonight along in the Alexander EB thread.. :gah:

Lgk and I agreed on implementing inovation's, numerous tweak's to mod stats, changes of settlemets, scripts, city importance, trait's system, DMB, attribute, new building's, etc.. And when it's done for EB 1.1 it will be called 'AlexanderEBMod' !

Now, I can see that you only want to help in tweak's that are mentioned in the main post of this thread - fine.. Then we can make that and call it: 'AlexanderEBMod' - Lite version!

But I am not giving up of my inovation's and ideas because one ''does not think it will be ok'' - by that I don't refer to you but to people that have comment's but no solutions for obvious problems that are MAJOR or just tend to IGNORE them. Major problems persist in EB game-play for some very smart EB's and some VERY active RTW players including myself.

So, I am sorry If I led you to belive otherwise - because major alteration's of EB are going to be done for 'AlexanderEBMod' and that will support EB games based on RTW and BI.exe - Lgk and I have very common language on this, it's just that he has no time now so It could seem I speek for him - that is not true - he PM's me and he read's the thread:boxing:

And.. I don't want to be rude but I suggest this link..
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95726 - you should see Atlantis.., I really don't have time to quote until forever here - .. (Mediterranean cultures that created Hellenic are ... old as Aegypt 'old kingdoms')

I know, but due to respect to EB team - I tend not to delete their work..
Still, I have one nice PC so I have no probs with lags anyway's - do I know alot of people that do have 'slow-downs' and it is more than annoying, on ALX there are really less lags :san_grin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

Look! ... Makedonia can train Elite Phalanx in 11 regions: Pella, Demetrias, Pergammum, Sardis, Halikarnasus, Alexandreia, Antioch, Babylon, Seleucia, Cypros and the region at Persian Sea..

SO - We enable the Royal Army ability FOR MAKEDONIA in: Pella, Pergammum, Alexandreia, Antioh, Babylon, Seleucia, now....., Alexandria, Pella, Antioch and Pergammum can also raise Hetairoi for example ..
- What did we do?? We just made 50% less region's where they can use elites

---

Of these Makedonia has only access to Pella on game start and will very certainly make it at maximum to Pergamon, when controlled by the AI. If you require a higher town level to build better barracks, Makedonia will never be able to raise these units because the only towns that will reach that level in some time are Antiochia and Alexandria.

If you add hidden ressources by random to some of the regions that should be able to field these forces and to other not that should also be able to do so, I think you should give a valid explanation for doing so. Why, for example, should Makedonia be able to raise their elite in a far away foreign spot like Babylon and not in neighbouring Thessaly?

You should keep in mind that the zones of recruitement in EB do represent the regions in which the population to field a specific unit settled in larger numbers, here Makedonians. And that the MIC does not represent a shining hughe building in a provincial capital (in fact only the minority of these soldiers lived in barracks), but the possible military consitution under a specific governement.

Establishing that requires the investment of time and money, but it is and should be possible everywhere the needed population lived.

Quote:

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- and if you count that AI build's barrack's in short time period's (relatively) this is the only solution if you don't want to come across ROYAL's ALL around - which is stupid -

---

What's the problem with Royal Barracks all around? In most of these structures the AI can't raise anything above level 3 or maximum 4. Only in their heartlands is the widespread recruitement of elites possible, and these are provinces that are either next to each other or even such that you want to create maximum barrackes in right from the start. So what should be improved in gameplay by this massive cut through the most important part of EB, the AOR?

Quote:

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The same explanation for Makedon goes for Epeiros too (do, due to the MIC shared system.. I am not sure Alex enables more building's to use??)

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????

Quote:

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It would not unbalance the game, remmeber when you said that adding Army barracks to capitols will unbalance the game? - Well it didn't - that helped AI expansion and better balance and gamplay

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Gameplay yes. Better balance? How?

Quote:

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[why didn't you backed me up when I said that due to realism - ALL Polises - and cities (for example almost ALL town's in AsiaMinor, Aegypt, Greece and Italy and some others) SHOULD have stone wall's from the start and that goes for more and more infrastructure

---

I like the development part of EB. It is nice that the towns start small with only a little infrastructure that has to be developed during the game. Otherwise most of the towns should have most of the building right from the start, but that would make an extremingly boring game.

Just keep that as it is: Every town has the ability to grow and raise better structres. Otherwise running around and conquering the map would be all that is left to the player.

But I agree that the starting armies should be of better quality for most of the factions, in particular the Hellenic; and/or every faction should start with one town where it can raise at least average units, in particular those that start at war with another faction. It is not much fun to fight the opening battles with Hoplitai Haploi and Akontistai.

In my descr_strat I used the following sollution: Epeiros, Makedonia, KH, AS and Ptolemaioi start the game with stronger armies of good quality. But these are first of all mercs. So, once they have eleminated each other in their opening battles they can not be retrained and so do not unbalance the game according to other factions that do not start with a major war or represent states that were hinterland kingdoms in 272 and therefore should not start with an elite army.

Quote:

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The Road's should have no changes - but that is your remark to MAA word's - not mine!

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MAA can change his EB as ever he like, but I do not agree with his approach and therefore do not want to implement his mod into this one or any other that I play.

Quote:

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And.. I don't want to be rude but I suggest this link..
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95726 - you should see Atlantis.., I really don't have time to quote until forever here - .. (Mediterranean cultures that created Hellenic are ... old as Aegypt 'old kingdoms')

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As said before, it is an interessting topic to talk about (I know of the arguments for pre-3,000 BC advanced cultures in the Mediterranian Basin), but as long as we are talking about EB we should stick to scholary historiography, in particular as long as we are talking about towns that were raised after c. 800BC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

I know, but due to respect to EB team - I tend not to delete their work..
Still, I have one nice PC so I have no probs with lags anyway's - do I know alot of people that do have 'slow-downs' and it is more than annoying, on ALX there are really less lags :san_grin:

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What CPU/Ram do you have?

Intel C2D E4400, 2x1gigDDRu800mhz, AsusEN8800gts:curtain:
But if I use EB on ALX on my older Celeron,.. it still works anyway:shrug:

Do you get any of the keyboard scroll stuttering on your Celeron but not your Intel?

Well, on Celeron - yes, all the time.. But on C2d almost never - but there are some keyboard scroll stuttering always - so even on ALX you will get them sometimes., but it will be less, and AI will play and think faster so you don't have to wait that long for AI to finish his turn:wall:

And all in general - and those are not just my word's .. - EB on ALX.exe is at least 30% faster, do on my CPU it is more than 50% - that is my opinion..:shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Of these Makedonia has only access to Pella on game start and will very certainly make it at maximum to Pergamon, when controlled by the AI. If you require a higher town level to build better barracks, Makedonia will never be able to raise these units because the only towns that will reach that level in some time are Antiochia and Alexandria.

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It wont require a higher town level to build better barracks :no:
So the faction's will be able to build barracks no matter the town level:yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

If you add hidden ressources by random to some of the regions that should be able to field these forces and to other not that should also be able to do so, I think you should give a valid explanation for doing so. Why, for example, should Makedonia be able to raise their elite in a far away foreign spot like Babylon and not in neighbouring Thessaly?

You should keep in mind that the zones of recruitement in EB do represent the regions in which the population to field a specific unit settled in larger numbers, here Makedonians. And that the MIC does not represent a shining hughe building in a provincial capital (in fact only the minority of these soldiers lived in barracks), but the possible military consitution under a specific governement.

---

The point is to make number of elites harder to get in the start and LATELY IN THE GAME - like after 150-100bc vice versa.
We can add the resource to all 11 provinces:shrug: - the EB way.. but that would not be my idea on this..
Because, Army barracks and ROYAL, should be reserved for Capitols of states and major Geopolitical centers of the region's.

In the Makedonian case Army made up of elite phalanx (or elites in general) WOULD BE GATHERED IN PELLA - in anyway that Elite Phalanx population could live all around Greece and in Tessaly and IN OTHER REGIONS EB DID NOT PUT IN EB !! - but they would come under one command in the capitol - Pella where they came under one general, - I know from books I read that Army gathering's during VI and XII century (in which it was explained that even in ancient Makedonia it was done that way!) in ERoman Empire, were more like massive voyages of the army form region's they lived in TO THE CAPITAL where they would come under one command (or in SOME cases in one safe part from the Empire) - they did not act anyway anywhere before they got to capital and the ''Royal Armoury'' when some the did not have full equipment would get some add-ons from the Capitol and some would not:shrug: - and then the Army would have their officers and generals!

That is clear proof that IT DID not Really matter where the army population lived (becasue they did not RAISE to ARM's there - they just came from there) - but where they were GATHERED to come under one command -
In EB you can use the local's /AS ELITES - to go and win anywhere - that was not the case in realy ancient life - The army had to be gathered and then used - that is the point of JUST some Army and Royal barrack's available for any faction.

The only compromise here could be that we make number of barracks as I suggested and ADD ELITES TO BE BUILD in other EB regions - like Tessaly and Sardis - IF ! - the town is Large so the then the 'Core' building may be the recruitment center!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Establishing that requires the investment of time and money, but it is and should be possible everywhere the needed population lived.

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That was not the case - the Elite Phalanx population often had soldier's form thrace that would come to CAPITOL and then would make their fortune and status in Makedonian Army.. I think that even some Celt's were in the phalanx ranks - more to it in Elite phalanx rank's of Alexander - I think that is a fact:stwshame:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

What's the problem with Royal Barracks all around? In most of these structures the AI can't raise anything above level 3 or maximum 4. Only in their heartlands is the widespread recruitement of elites possible, and these are provinces that are either next to each other or even such that you want to create maximum barrackes in right from the start. So what should be improved in gameplay by this massive cut through the most important part of EB, the AOR?

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You are right about that - and I agree, my problem is that during the game there is one massive and unrealistic growht in numbers of barrack's - That is why I urge you and I insist that we MUST make Army and Royal barrack's avalilable at the start for MOST if not ALL faction's capitals..

My problem here are short construction times for MOST of HIGH END BUILDING's -- So by some time MANY OTHER cities would have royal barracks
THEY DONT NEED TO USE!!

Like Makedonia does not have almost ANY use of Royal barracks in BYZANTIUM and the AI will waste resources and time to build ti!!!

We could disable army and royal barrack's to the region's that have almost NO USE of those structures -

Anothe example! .. Aegypt can't train Elites in Cypros and Sidon - there for AI has no use of building Army and Royal barracks in those two region's - but CPU build's it anyway - he wastes resources and time and that creates additional problems to EBBS (beacuse it will ask more money):shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

????.

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By this I meant to make faction's have their own and only MIC, not-shared MIC, but I think it is not possible :no:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

Gameplay yes. Better balance? How?

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Because IT IS MORE REAL - it is closer to the historic fact's - the fact, for example is that Pyrros had elites when he was at Sparta and Italy - in EB - he will die before AI or Human player could take Pyrros into new campaigns with armies that he 'HAD' under his command according to historic notes - once or twice EB member's said that was true - but because of the gamplay they did not want to implement it :gah:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

I like the development part of EB. It is nice that the towns start small with only a little infrastructure that has to be developed during the game. Otherwise most of the towns should have most of the building right from the start, but that would make an extremingly boring game.

Just keep that as it is: Every town has the ability to grow and raise better structres. Otherwise running around and conquering the map would be all that is left to the player.

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I like the development part of EB too - but for region's that should be developed and not most of the towns. Some should have most of the building right from the start - just the ones that were Large at Huge at that time.

I like EB becasue it is mostly based on rude Historcs fact's - and that IS why I was VERY disapointed when I saw 'vanilla model' descr_start.txt and C_script.txt

It can not be a fantasy game and history - note correct game in the same time.. Te community had those discussions in some thread's and you know what - there is a large number of EB's that see it my way too - the historicly more correct way.. Anyway - we already agreed that construction time's for Army and Royla barrack's sould be 2 times longer!

I wont compromise on that (on that whole hictoric verses fantasy concept of C_script), .. sorry (still that does not mean that we should not make the mod.. it just means that no matter what I will do it with Lgk and will say that 'that mod is optional' add-on to 'AlexEBMod' Lite)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

But I agree that the starting armies should be of better quality for most of the factions, in particular the Hellenic; and/or every faction should start with one town where it can raise at least average units, in particular those that start at war with another faction. It is not much fun to fight the opening battles with Hoplitai Haploi and Akontistai.

In my descr_strat I used the following sollution: Epeiros, Makedonia, KH, AS and Ptolemaioi start the game with stronger armies of good quality. But these are first of all mercs. So, once they have eleminated each other in their opening battles they can not be retrained and so do not unbalance the game according to other factions that do not start with a major war or represent states that were hinterland kingdoms in 272 and therefore should not start with an elite army.

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I gree too, starting armies should be of better quality for most of the factions and so should barracks for the capitols, also, you can make as many elites to the descr_start.txt for AS and Aegypt - the ''ai_attack'' command line will safe guard the smaller faction's until they decide to take a part in major war (that can be seen on my sreen's up).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konny

MAA can change his EB as ever he like, but I do not agree with his approach and therefore do not want to implement his mod into this one or any other that I play.

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You dont have to agree with his approach - or mine (that is not btw the same as his).. you don't have to use additional add-on for 'AlexEBMod' that Lgk and I are working on :shrug:

We will make one version that would have minor 'EB vanilla' changes, and you want to support that one only - fine! I support it too!

But it seems that you want to suppress my and Lgk ideas (that tend to change Much more in EB than you want) and work only by YOUR OPINION !

That is not a discussion at all! I and Lgk WONT make massive changes and then add the download link and say - KONNY did this.. NO!

We will develop -Alexander EB Mod- with you and MiniMe and other's that come along and implement all changes we ALL agree on - but we will also make ADD-ON! or you may call it EXTENDED ALEXANDER EB MOD! That will be enabled for use on any EXE. and this one will be ''SIGNED'' by myself and Lgk! You have no part in it - as I can see - so you wont be blamed if someone protest's because of that!

That is how it will be done! I wont argue here for day's just becasue you don't understand all my ideas! The ideas are to be seen after made - not proved - this is not Vatican - it's a forum, and the fact you are for 'already' in use ideas that EB team made wont make me accuse EB team of being 'foolish'
- they have to make it vanilla as posible in terms of gameplay so they would not have to argue like ME with you here.. (and they need as much as fans as possible)

And imagine If I am now to realease all my ideal 'tweaks' that I will implement in 'ExtensiveAlexEBMod' and trait's ideas that Lgk will implement? Or HP tweak's that solve more misfortune AI autocalculation bug's of vanilla, such as Hit Points from 1 to 1,3 for HArcher's and phalanx. And that I want to make Stone Wall's able to be constructed only if there is one Academy in the city?? See???

Imagine?? - We would argue here for decades!

We have to much different philosophies on this - there are so many different opinions on many issues between us here - issues Lgk and I don't have to that extend..

Sorry, but from now I will only discuss issues with you that we agreed upon.
There are many so we can make one version of 'AlexEbMod' together:stwshame:

Really, what's so terrible about "AI bulding a lot of royal barracks and recruiting a lot of elites"? By any means, let the poor dumb AI use as much elites as he wants (esp in "EB Lite" mod variant)! That won't save him. ;) And entire RTW recruiting system isn't very "historical" anyway, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Btw MICs not tied to city sizes imo isn't a problem at all - we can always add something like "and building_present_min_level imperial_palace (...proconsuls_palace for barbarians)" in EDB as a prerequisite for elite MICs (that's up to MiniMe). I don't think it interferes with any reforms mechanism... hope EB team members will assure us if i'm right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lgk

Btw MICs not tied to city sizes imo isn't a problem at all - we can always add something like "and building_present_min_level imperial_palace (...proconsuls_palace for barbarians)" in EDB as a prerequisite for elite MICs

---

my thoughts exactly =)
not enough time to post now, will reappear during the night.

in short

1. on Poeni militia - AOR certainly should be increased and match LibiPhoenikian AOR because of one simple reason - if there are bastards, then there should be their fathers.

2. on Konny Sparta based argument - well, I wasn't going to tie 5 level MIC to 5 level government ;-)
I was going to suggest you to choose from these

5 level MIC - 4 level core_building as prerequisite
4 level MIC - 3 level core_building as prerequisite
3 level MIC - 2 level core_building as prerequisite

or

5 level MIC - 3 level core_building as prerequisite
4 level MIC - 2 level core_building as prerequisite

(me strongly simpatise first one)

3. on producing units from building that differ from MIC - strictly against. This would be beginning of the end.

4. on giving capitals best MICs from the start - against the best MICs. Some factions, however, lack level 3 MIC in their capital. Methinks this could be a good compromise.

5. on giving some factions more or less historically realistic good stacks from the start - yes, many good things can be achieved by this

Maximus, I promise to carefully reexamine all your posts tonight :yes:

Cheers
MM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiniMe

2. on Konny Sparta based argument - well, I wasn't going to tie 5 level MIC to 5 level government ;-)
I was going to suggest you to choose from these

5 level MIC - 4 level core_building as prerequisite
4 level MIC - 3 level core_building as prerequisite
3 level MIC - 2 level core_building as prerequisite

---

That would be 12,000 inhabitans for Sparta to raise the first Spartiate Hoplite (Level 5 is 24,000); starting population is 1,260, growth rate about 1% to 2%. I can't remember to have Sparte growing to this size in any of my games, but it would certainly be sometimes around the Marian Reforms.

I strongly urge all of you that Sparta MUST have Spartan's form the start in 272bc - that means adding Royal Army Barrack's to Sparta - In my test's - AI uses Spartan's and Elites in smal scope - like 5-10% of total unit's ..

That brings more gameplay..

I have uploade my beta test files - you can see that it is obvious that adding the Army barracks for most of the faction's from the start in their capitols will just add to the gameplay, realism, and challenge - it wont unbalance the game :no:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiniMe

my thoughts exactly =)
not enough time to post now, will reappear during the night.

in short

1. on Poeni militia - AOR certainly should be increased and match LibiPhoenikian AOR because of one simple reason - if there are bastards, then there should be their fathers.

2. on Konny Sparta based argument - well, I wasn't going to tie 5 level MIC to 5 level government ;-)
I was going to suggest you to choose from these

5 level MIC - 4 level core_building as prerequisite
4 level MIC - 3 level core_building as prerequisite
3 level MIC - 2 level core_building as prerequisite

or

5 level MIC - 3 level core_building as prerequisite
4 level MIC - 2 level core_building as prerequisite

(me strongly simpatise first one)

3. on producing units from building that differ from MIC - strictly against. This would be beginning of the end.

4. on giving capitals best MICs from the start - against the best MICs. Some factions, however, lack level 3 MIC in their capital. Methinks this could be a good compromise.

5. on giving some factions more or less historically realistic good stacks from the start - yes, many good things can be achieved by this

Maximus, I promise to carefully reexamine all your posts tonight :yes:

Cheers
MM

---

I am saying again - If we add resources for the settlement's much of those problems would be avoided.. like this we need to compromise forever:gah:

But since this is that way it is.. ok.. (I still stand on my ideas for extended mod.. sill I might loosen a bit:ballchain: )

Answers:

1 - OK!

2 - Well, I am not for it really, - EXEPT if we agree to make the Polises bigger at the start in General - like in the Historical perspective - that would mean to take away most of development areas for very well known cities that would now be mostly developed fully.

And Konny is right on this - as far as Sparta is concerned we must not tight it to core building's - unless we use Royal for KH in Sparta at the start and then we can make it work - but, really, this was not the case then I think..

And if we must do it

5 level MIC - 3 level core_building as prerequisite
4 level MIC - 0 level core_building as prerequisite

??

Also + 2 times construction for high-end barracks is wellcome

3 - It's fine, we dont have to do it.

4 - The best MICs from the start are only in Alexandreia and Antioch in my propositon I PMed you people. And all factions mostly have MIC 3 level - that does not the trick :no: Because basic elites that were used at that time are in Army barrack's. Silver Shield's (elite phalanx) were used In Every Battle of the Successor's states :wall: - that MUST be available from the start! It only bring's realism I made alreration's to C_script.txt like this:

;******************************
; Create commented out barracks
;******************************


;SPQR
;Latium2 - Rome
console_command create_building Rome army_barracks_A1
console_command create_building Rome roads
;Etruria - Arretium
console_command create_building Arretium militia_barracks_A1
console_command create_building Arretium roads
;Umbria - Ariminum
console_command create_building Ariminum muster_field_A
console_command create_building Ariminum roads
;Campania - Capua
console_command create_building Capua militia_barracks_A1
console_command create_building Capua roads
;Apulia - Arpi
console_command create_building Arpi muster_field_A
console_command create_building Arpi roads

;Arverni
;Arvernotorg - Gergovia
console_command create_building Gergovia army_barracks_D1

;Lugonesis - Viennos
console_command create_building Viennos muster_field_D
;Sequallra - Vesontio
console_command create_building Vesontio muster_field_D

;Saba
;Saba - Maryab
console_command create_building Maryab city_barracks_F1
console_command create_building Maryab farms

;Makedonia
;Makedonia - Pella
console_command create_building Pella army_barracks_K1
console_command create_building Pella roads
;Thessalia - Demetrias
console_command create_building Demetrias muster_field_K
console_command create_building Demetrias city_barracks_Y1
console_command create_building Demetrias roads
;Peloponnesos - Korinthos
console_command create_building Korinthos city_barracks_K1
console_command create_building Korinthos roads
;Lesbos - Mytilene
console_command create_building Mytilene muster_field_K
;Euboia - Chalkis
console_command create_building Chalkis muster_field_K

;Ptolemaioi
;Heptanomis - Memphis
console_command create_building Memphis city_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Memphis roads
;Delta_Neilou - Alexandreia

console_command create_building Alexandreia royal_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Alexandreia paved_roads
;Thebais - Diospolis_Megale
console_command create_building Diospolis_Megale militia_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Diospolis_Megale roads
;Kypros - Salamis
console_command create_building Salamis muster_field_J
;Ioudaia - Hierosolyma
console_command create_building Hierosolyma militia_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Hierosolyma roads
;Phoenicia - Sidon
console_command create_building Sidon militia_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Sidon roads
;Marmarike - Paraitonion
console_command create_building Paraitonion muster_field_J
;Triakontaschoinos - Pselkis
console_command create_building Pselkis muster_field_J
;Oasis_Megale - Hibis
console_command create_building Hibis muster_field_J
;Kilikia - Tarsos
console_command create_building Tarsos muster_field_J
;Pamphylia - Side
console_command create_building Side muster_field_J
;Erythraia - Ptolemais_Theron
console_command create_building Ptolemais_Theron muster_field_J

;Arche Seleukideia
;Syria - Antiocheia
console_command create_building Antiocheia royal_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Antiocheia roads
console_command create_building Antiocheia sewers
;Syria_Koile - Damaskos
console_command create_building Damaskos muster_field_J
;Assyrie - Edessa
console_command create_building Edessa muster_field_J
console_command create_building Edessa roads
;Mesopotamia - Seleukeia
console_command create_building Seleukeia army_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Seleukeia villa
console_command create_building Seleukeia great_forum
console_command create_building Seleukeia aqueduct
console_command create_building Seleukeia hospital
console_command create_building Seleukeia theatre
console_command create_building Seleukeia paved_roads
;Babylonia - Babylon
console_command create_building Babylon paved_roads
console_command create_building Babylon sewers
;Lydia - Sardis
console_command create_building Sardis city_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Sardis roads
;Elymais - Susa
console_command create_building Susa militia_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Susa roads
;Media - Ekbatana
console_command create_building Ekbatana militia_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Ekbatana sewers
console_command create_building Ekbatana roads
;Kappadokia - Mazaka
console_command create_building Mazaka muster_field_J
;Hyrkania - Zadrakata
console_command create_building Zadrakata muster_field_J
;Persis - Persepolis
console_command create_building Persepolis militia_barracks_J1
console_command create_building Persepolis roads
console_command create_building Persepolis sewers
;Gabiene - Gabai
console_command create_building Gabai muster_field_J
;Karmania - Karmana
console_command create_building Karmana muster_field_J ;No barracks in starting in this settlment
;Drangiane - Prophthasia
console_command create_building Prophthasia muster_field_J
console_command create_building Prophthasia roads
;Aria - Alexandreia_Ariana
console_command create_building Alexandreia_Ariana muster_field_J
;Margiana - Antiocheia_Margianea
console_command create_building Antiocheia_Margiane muster_field_J
console_command create_building Antiocheia_Margiane roads
;Charax_Spasinou - Charax
console_command create_building Charax muster_field_J
;Astauene - Asaak
console_command create_building Asaak militia_barracks_J1
;Parthava - Hekatompylos
console_command create_building Hekatompylos muster_field_J
console_command create_building Hekatompylos roads
;Khoarene - Apameia
console_command create_building Apameia muster_field_J
;Phrygia - Ipsos
console_command create_building Ipsos muster_field_J
;Sophene - Karkathiokerta
console_command create_building Karkathiokerta muster_field_J
;Adiabene - Arbela
console_command create_building Arbela muster_field_J

;Karthadast
;Zeugitana - Kart_Hadast
console_command create_building Kart_Hadast army_barracks_L1
console_command create_building Kart_Hadast paved_roads
;Atiqa - Atiqa
console_command create_building Atiqa city_barracks_L1
console_command create_building Atiqa paved_roads
;Elimya - Lilibeo
console_command create_building Lilibeo city_barracks_L1
;Byzacena - Adrumeto
console_command create_building Adrumeto militia_barracks_L1
console_command create_building Adrumeto paved_roads
;Sardin - Karali
console_command create_building Karali muster_field_L
;Baleares - Bocchoris
console_command create_building Bocchoris muster_field_L
;Turdetania - Gader
console_command create_building Gader militia_barracks_L1
;Korsim - Alalia
console_command create_building Alalia muster_field_L
;Syrthim - Lepki
console_command create_building Lepki muster_field_L
console_command create_building Lepki temple_of_fertility_shrine
;Bastetania - Mastia
console_command create_building Mastia muster_field_L
console_command create_building Mastia temple_of_fertility_shrine
;Mashiliem - Ippone
console_command create_building Ippone muster_field_L
console_command create_building Ippone roads
console_command create_building Ippone temple_of_fertility_shrine

;Pontos
;Kappadokia_Pontika - Amaseia
console_command create_building Amaseia army_barracks_H1

;Aedui
;Mrogaedu - Bibracte
console_command create_building Bibracte ‚army_barracks_D1

;Insubramrog - Mediolanum
console_command create_building Mediolanum militia_barracks_D1
;Mrogaule - Cenabum
console_command create_building Cenabum muster_field_D

;Sweboz
;Swebolandam - Swebotraustastamnoz
console_command create_building Swebotraustastamnoz army_barracks_G1

;Casse
;Cassemorg - Camulosadae
console_command create_building Camulosadae city_barracks_D1

;Hayasdan
;Hayasdan - Armavir
;console_command create_building Armavir army_barracks_H1

;Getai
;Getia - Buridava
console_command create_building Buridava army_barracks_G1

;Koinon Hellenon
;Lakonike - Sparte
console_command create_building Sparte royal_barracks_I1
console_command create_building Sparte roads
;Rhodos - Rhodos
console_command create_building Rhodos city_barracks_I1
;Attike - Athenai
console_command create_building Athenai city_barracks_I1
console_command create_building Athenai theatre
console_command create_building Athenai roads

;Baktria
;Baktria - Baktra
console_command create_building Baktra army_barracks_K1
console_command create_building Baktra sewers
console_command create_building Baktra roads
;Sogdiane - Marakanda
console_command create_building Marakanda muster_field_K
console_command create_building Marakanda roads
;Dayuan - Alexandreia_Eschate

console_command create_building Alexandreia_Eschate muster_field_K
console_command create_building Alexandreia_Eschate muster_field_X

;Iberia
;Lusitania - Oxtraca
console_command create_building Oxtraca army_barracks_F1

;Celtiberia - Numantia

console_command create_building Numantia militia_barracks_F1

;Epeiros
;Epeiros - Apollonia
console_command create_building Apollonia army_barracks_I1
;Kalabria - Taras
console_command create_building Taras city_barracks_I1
console_command create_building Taras roads
;Illyria_Hellenike - Epidamnos
console_command create_building Epidamnos muster_field_I

5 - It is done then :san_grin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maksimus

And Konny is right on this - as far as Sparta is concerned we must not tight it to core building's - unless we use Royal for KH in Sparta at the start and then we can make it work - but, really, this was not the case then I think..

---

Yes, and of course you can't stop with Sparta.

For example Makedonia must be able to raise Hetairoi (or build the MIC that would make them recruitable) up from the size it starts with - in particular because Pella will be very much emptied in the first years of the game.

Rome must be able to field Equites Extraordinarii outside Latium, resp. build a Level 5 MIC there, with the town levels it starts with, or will reach after a few years.

The Celts should be able to get Brihentin somehow without having hughe cities before.

etcpp.

You can do that for most of the factions that have elites that do not represent a later developed reform unit but traditional elites in a certain region. You can either leave everything at is and allow for MIC 5 or build MIC 5 in some provinces (in particular Sparte won't hurt much because appart from the Spartiates you won't get so much there). But you should not link MICs to town size because in a lot of cases the town size will not match with the military meaning of a town, in particular because every town has a different military meaning for each faction.

There is a reason why the EB recruitement system is as it is.

------------------------------------------------------
I would suggest the following:

Raise the quality of some starting armies, make sure that every faction has one level 3 MIC (two for AS, one East, one West) in a military important town and leave the rest of the recruitement system as it is.

MIC 3 are City barracks?.. Yes they are I think..

Well, that is already in C_sript vanilly EB :shrug:

If we make that for all faction's then the some Faction's would have no cahanges..:no:
It would also mean discrimination toward factions that were much more advanced in warfare (like Successor states) - In 'barb' world, MIC 3 is highly advanced level of army - in Hellenic world it is fairly medium.. I urge you to think about my post of ''C_scrip'' alterations on barracks issue.. I think that some tweak's could be done here but .. Successor's should Have Army in Capitols because Army barracks represent the unit's they used plenty in that time (and elite phalanx + cavalry).. But in the case of Empires like Egypt and Syria - Royal are correct and fiar at the least..:shrug: ... ..


:thinking2:

Hi there

I finally installed RTW -> BI -> ALEX -> EB. Instructions on the first side of this thread are a little bit confusing. I hope i figured it out and did the right thing. Haven't played much yet, however, game works well so far. If the loading time has decreased then only in a slight way if at all, well, isn't much of importance for me. What matters is the increase of the A.I., yea :2thumbsup:. As i said, i only played about an hour, but e.g. the A.I. missile units were shooting at me, in all 3-4 battles and without hesitation. IMO one huge step.:beam: I don't know for sure, i think the battles run smoother at least it looks and feels better. Have to take a closer look at my settings, but they pretty much seem the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maksimus

Well, that is already in C_sript vanilly EB :shrug:

If we make that for all faction's then the some Faction's would have no cahanges..:no:
It would also mean discrimination toward factions that were much more advanced in warfare (like Successor states) - In 'barb' world, MIC 3 is highly advanced level of army - in Hellenic world it is fairly medium..

---

I remember that KH starts without, for example (or was that in 0.8?). I think there are others too (Pontos? Armenia? Baktria?).

With "make sure" I meant that this should be the minimum that all factions start with in one town (the capital city or another very important one). I didn't meant to level down existing higher barracks to level 3.

But I wouldn't go to 5 immediatly, that's for gameplay reasons. 3 gives you all the "units of the line" that made the core of these armies in 272 BC. Elites should be a matter of developement. In the early game this role is usually taken over by the FMs, who will be more governors in the later game and so make recruiting of elites by MICs more important.

The Barbarians would be no problem either because they are usually to poor to afford a lot of elites and most of them do need reforms anyway.

To do so would definitly require to raise the quality of the starting armies for several factions because the AI starts the game with pockets full of money and will use that money certainly to raise Petzhetairoi where it now comes along with Pantodapoi. You won't be able to fight this off with the crappy levies you now start with.

-----------------------

hmm.... Taking that into account the idea is probably not so good after all. The thing is that this would enforce another problem: money on turn #2. Many of the factoins are terribly broken allready by the starting armies. If these would be better units they will run even more into the minus. That again might mean that you won't see better units recruited at all to soon - may be even later than with the actual settings?

Another problem: The AI has now serious problems with the rebells in the early game because the rebells simply have the better units. Later the AI has the better units and is more often able to take these towns. That doesn't apply to the human player because on the tactical map is much easyer to take a settlement with just wooden walls than on autocalc.

Giving the AI the ability to train better units early in the game it might, and certainly will, use these to expand very fast and early into rebell territory - something that should not be.

Settings shouldn't become changed by using another exe, I think. They are stored in the preference file.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by konny

hmm.... Taking that into account the idea is probably not so good after all. The thing is that this would enforce another problem: money on turn #2. Many of the factoins are terribly broken allready by the starting armies. If these would be better units they will run even more into the minus. That again might mean that you won't see better units recruited at all to soon - may be even later than with the actual settings?

---

In case you missed :book: - fixed by "Lgk's money script" already :juggle2:

Konny is right, the settings should not be the problem (Still I suggest you 'tweak' your preferences the way you like:san_wink: )

There is one still, minor.. 'thing' - the camera wont auto move to your general (for example) if you double click it :wall: and then move your m-scroll:no:

That is *exe thing - you should not move your mouse while waithing camera to cross from one part of the map to another :san_grin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by konny

With "make sure" I meant that this should be the minimum that all factions start with in one town (the capital city or another very important one). I didn't meant to level down existing higher barracks to level 3.

But I wouldn't go to 5 immediatly, that's for gameplay reasons. 3 gives you all the "units of the line" that made the core of these armies in 272 BC. Elites should be a matter of developement. In the early game this role is usually taken over by the FMs, who will be more governors in the later game and so make recruiting of elites by MICs more important.

---

I agree, but the only ones that have Royal are two strong empires - AS and Aegypt - like, befor AS had Royal in Antioch - he tended to loose it faster - this Way Aegypr really needs to drag some of it's best troops from Alexandria to get the AS capitol.. By now in EB vanilla - Egypt just use the troops from Sidon and WIN's :whip:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by konny

The Barbarians would be no problem either because they are usually to poor to afford a lot of elites and most of them do need reforms anyway.

---

Anyways - if you tested you will see AI uses like 10% and 15% top! Of elites even when he has Army barrack's :boxing: That brings dymanic and fun as well -- AND IT si very nice to see ONE ELITE PHALANX and one Hetairoi beside the general amnog 6 other natives - it looks like on ancient army that way - I am very happy when I see that kind of armies AI compose's.. He really makes it interesting (WHEN he has Army barrack's at the start)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by konny

To do so would definitly require to raise the quality of the starting armies for several factions because the AI starts the game with pockets full of money and will use that money certainly to raise Petzhetairoi where it now comes along with Pantodapoi. You won't be able to fight this off with the crappy levies you now start with.

---

We should raise the quality of starting armies for most factions also for Rebels in some settlement's if posible..:grin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by konny

Giving the AI the ability to train better units early in the game it might, and certainly will, use these to expand very fast and early into rebell territory - something that should not be.

---

AI should be able to train even as 'SLAVE' ! - VERY IMPORTANT !

In EDB there are no recruit's for Slave-Rebel's - that is very very wrong.. A couple of units (or just one or two) should be recrutable in any (or at least Militia_barrack's) settlement's - For example - some important Rebel town's should not be easily taken anyway - like Pergammum, or.. India!?

It is no problem to make rebels train some unit's - it will bring the challenge and game dinamics - REALLY now - Honestly - I made those tweak's im my vanilla RTW - and Athens was able to hold the ground for 100 year's :san_wink: also Halicaransus and Syracusa.. that is very nice :yes:

Oh.. I forgot about this:

I think we should enable Armenia to recruit heavy Kingsmen Cavalry in Royal barrack's - this way it has no 'Heavy' cavalry worthy of war..:no:

What do you think? I can make it work quick - just Add one in DMB and in EDU, eunms... etc.. So Armenia has some kind of catapracts (Kingsmen like Hetario recruitment) - that should be right? right?
I always belived that Armenia had nice heavy cavalry?! But not in EB (unless the general guards) - I think we should make that happen?..:shrug:

Also a variation of officers in DMB, we can ask promission to use them from other mod's?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by konny

Settings shouldn't become changed by using another exe, I think. They are stored in the preference file.

---

I did a complete de- and reinstallation (RTW -> BI -> ALEX -> EB).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maksimus

That is *exe thing - you should not move your mouse while waithing camera to cross from one part of the map to another :san_grin:

---

Yes, noticed this one, isn't causing real trouble, just have to get fully used to it.

Also I would like suggestion's on ''descr_start.txt'' Personalities Of Faction's?:curtain:

Are you using an EB folder or Alexander folder to install the mod?

Reason I asked is I didnt find much speed increase when testing SPQR with Alex.exe infact like BI I found when it has to look for the game in another folder it slows the overall campaign game. Of course EB is more complicated with the script but since SPQR is fast in campaign its a good reliable testing platform to judge speed. In theory its would be slow for SPQR and not EB.

I would suggest alot of tests by the EB team to be safe, as I found if you use the alexander folder settings like factions not attacking eachother work, but if you keep it in a mod folder like SPQR or EB it doesnt work.

Also as for AI to be honest I didnt see much improvement. There is a little, but very little. Naval invasion issue is caused from the AI not seeing the enemy when given the super faction trait the AI tends to do invasions of enemy lands. Atleast in my tests, this was in RTW 1.5

I am glad you are working on these things, I had the same issue with Battles not working right and some other issues. None of the BI formations are in Alex. but I do believe all the RTW ones are. I would be cautious though as I found CA breaks things that worked before in each patch. So it only stands to reason something is broke in Alex even if you cant spot it yet, could be simple as the Heat attributes not working or a charge etc.

Lt_1956

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Originally Posted by lt1956

Are you using an EB folder or Alexander folder to install the mod?

Reason I asked is I didnt find much speed increase when testing SPQR with Alex.exe infact like BI I found when it has to look for the game in another folder it slows the overall campaign game. Of course EB is more complicated with the script but since SPQR is fast in campaign its a good reliable testing platform to judge speed. In theory its would be slow for SPQR and not EB.

I would suggest alot of tests by the EB team to be safe, as I found if you use the alexander folder settings like factions not attacking eachother work, but if you keep it in a mod folder like SPQR or EB it doesnt work.

Also as for AI to be honest I didnt see much improvement. There is a little, but very little. Naval invasion issue is caused from the AI not seeing the enemy when given the super faction trait the AI tends to do invasions of enemy lands. Atleast in my tests, this was in RTW 1.5

I am glad you are working on these things, I had the same issue with Battles not working right and some other issues. None of the BI formations are in Alex. but I do believe all the RTW ones are. I would be cautious though as I found CA breaks things that worked before in each patch. So it only stands to reason something is broke in Alex even if you cant spot it yet, could be simple as the Heat attributes not working or a charge etc.

Lt_1956

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Well, the mod thread is in sub-forum, but.. anyways :san_wink:

I will answer all, :san_grin:

1-We use EB folder only - and in this case (this thread case) we are just speaking about ALX engine on EB and updating a guide for ALX.exe use on EB 1 - so player's can use EB and enjoy more, more stable and smarter engine - so there is no mod still :no:

2-I never really played SPQR (do I have it and I have installed it in a custom folder to see all .) so I just can't comment much. Still, let me say a word about speed. - If one game that is RTW based is already fast - how can you test that it is even more faster? I mean, I know you can see it - but maybe your default AI speed in SPQR is already at max or close to vanilla speed?:shrug:

3- Well EB team does not support use of ALX.exe on EB officially, do many EB members are supporting us on moral basis :curtain:


Ok, The point is the TARGET line of EB.exe we use in Step II - so anything from ALX work's perfectly on EB. The factions not attacking eachother works and it is tested already. For example - We make Seleucid's not to attack Armenia, and, they don't - but! If Armenia attacks AS - then they are at war.

Now,
Because AS would focus in it's campaign to fight ALL exept Aegypt (which makes them loose the capital as early as after 10 turn's and mostly ALWAYS), we made 'never in war' enabled for Pontus-AS, and AS-Armenia - that means vice versa!
This helps 100% ! ..Like, idea is made so AS wont attack: Baktria, Pahlava, Pontos and Armenia - but only Pontos and Armenia are set 'not' to attack AS (because of the Ptolomy expansion!), Baktria and Pahlava can attack AS when they want - but that will start a war, AS will 'never' attack first against those faction's that are set as 'ai_not_attack'.
This made AS last more in Syria, and made AI drag the army from the Eastern to the Western part of AS empire..
Still, Eventually - Egypt always win's (no matter what we set) so Pontos and Armenia don't have to loos their troops against AS that is in the mud already - they should wait for Egypt to some close and then they will attack him!


I don't want to oppose you here :no: It's just that we have tested ALX on EB 1 (that is pushing the RTW engine to it's limit's) and there we saw ALX.exe as advanced.. much more advanced engine than BI and certainly more advanced then RTW, the speed is increased 30-40% that depends on your PC:shrug: .. The AI turn's are faster, the AI groups more and he is expanding with greater pace, Diplomacy is advanced, AI campaign strategy is advanced, AI retreins units all the time and all atrubutes are working fine as far as I can see..

The 'AlexEBTeam' will make balance mods and will support EB on BI,RTW and ALX *exe's!

And thank you for your support - try ALX with EB :san_wink:

Thinki about this what must be causing the increase for EB players is the script. So by Alex.exe having a Better seek ability it would increase the game for EB players, where as it would be slower for normal low script or non script Mods. Like I said for SPQR I noticed a decrease in speed but then again SPQR is really really fast. Some say faster than Vanilla.

This would mean that EB would have to be pretty slow to notice an increase of that level. Its been a while since I was on the EB team and back then it was in Alpha state. I was one of the people that Felt the script should not be too much, but it looks like going to Alex may be the better choice.

How does the team feel about this? If there is that much of an improvement, it can only enhance that great mod for the players?

The EBBS script is about 11 megs now. Cutting it down to 6.5 megs for me increased the turn speed by 50-100%.

Pages and pages and pages of writing on this topic. So I bet it's been answered but I haven't found it in the book that's been written here. These are instructions for RTW+BI+ALEX+EB. So will the game run without BI, but all of the others? I can't figure out which fixes and edits are just for BI, and which are for Alex without BI, if there is such a thing. ;)

BI has nothing to do with it. Some (originaly) BI-features, such as night battles, can be used with the ALX.exe because they are part of the ALX code.

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Originally Posted by Danest

Pages and pages and pages of writing on this topic. So I bet it's been answered but I haven't found it in the book that's been written here. These are instructions for RTW+BI+ALEX+EB. So will the game run without BI, but all of the others? I can't figure out which fixes and edits are just for BI, and which are for Alex without BI, if there is such a thing. ;)

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In the main post - BI.exe is suggested because there will be support from 'ALXEBTeam' on BI.exe too, so if you want tu use only ALX.exe you don't need BI :no:

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Originally Posted by lt1956

Thinki about this what must be causing the increase for EB players is the script. So by Alex.exe having a Better seek ability it would increase the game for EB players, where as it would be slower for normal low script or non script Mods. Like I said for SPQR I noticed a decrease in speed but then again SPQR is really really fast. Some say faster than Vanilla.

This would mean that EB would have to be pretty slow to notice an increase of that level. Its been a while since I was on the EB team and back then it was in Alpha state. I was one of the people that Felt the script should not be too much, but it looks like going to Alex may be the better choice.

How does the team feel about this? If there is that much of an improvement, it can only enhance that great mod for the players?

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As I mentioned - EB team has it's own reasons for not supporting ALX.exe:shrug:
I think it is mostly because most of the top EB team 'officials' don't have Alex at all (that is one info from EB team)

Do, 'AlexEBTeam' supports it and we will make it nice for all player's that want to use ALX.exe for EB :san_wink:

Which Alexander patch is recommended to install after Alexander? Or is no patch recommended?

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Originally Posted by Ymarsakar

Which Alexander patch is recommended to install after Alexander? Or is no patch recommended?

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No, no patch, 1.9 is final.

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Originally Posted by Palasta

No, no patch, 1.9 is final.

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Thanks.

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Alex is 1.9 patch and the finall mark of RTW creators... so it is the best and that represents all the hard work of the CA and Activision!
It is just perfect for EB 1, and as you see it is easy to make it work !

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Mak, you might want to change the line to "Alex is 1.9 final version" instead of 1.9 patch, since it gives a different meaning.

DOne:san_wink:

Ok, let us go with a Lite-lite version that will be uploaded before NewYear!

For these changes I only sugest:

1- ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' enabled as tested

2- ''NightBattleCapable 1'' enabled for couple of faction's (I suggest Stepe, German's and Saba, ok, and Briton's maybe and also Dacia) - that means that one general (or two for Stepe) would have ''NightBattleCapable 1'' added

3- What is that you don't like in ''C_script'' that is modified by barrack's issue by myself so we change it and finish it!

4- Adding Lgk's money script that is finished (or also to add Konny's work if it is finished - or make it optional, I think Lgk did not make Win_Condition's:shrug: )


Now - What could and may not be done in a few days!

5- Adding units at the start that will represent armies that would be there at that time (like more medium infantry) - all in C_script!

6- Adding ''DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT'' with +1 expirience to all of them

7- Adding ''export_descr_unit.txt'' that has modified Hit Point's for Horse Archers from 1,1 - 1,3, also that goes for Elephant's to 1,4 and to phalanx from 1,1-1,3 (and SShields 1,4) - This will only affect autocalculations :grin:

8- Originaly posted by LGK: '' Also with these HA improvements steppe factions personalities have to be changed back to "genghis". Well, maybe "henry" is still acceptable for Pahlava... but afaik even late settled parthians never used much infantry anyway, so same "genghis" can suit them better. Too bad we can't change personalities mid-game ''.

Any more?




What do you say?!

If you don't say anything I will make it work and upload it as BETA TEST! :boxing:

Maximus, mate. I need to ask you: how many EB campaigns so far are you through? By "through" I mean: victory conditions achieved.