The mafia won? That means I was on a winning team for once, superb choice ditching the town at the end.(No offence town but it had to be done.)
Did I live to see this Victory though?
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The mafia won? That means I was on a winning team for once, superb choice ditching the town at the end.(No offence town but it had to be done.)
Did I live to see this Victory though?
"Best infaltration in either Capo. kudos!"
:cool:
Host's Thoughts, Commentary, & Musings
I simply loved watching you folks play. Despite my mistakes and some confusion, almost everyone got into the swim of things. Comment's like Mak's on paranoia etc. are a reward of sorts.
Capo is pitched in a film noir/ Coppola's Godfather setting. The mood of film noir -- dark, unsure who you can trust, violent, frequent plot twists -- is something I've tried to evoke.
This version was, I think, a lot closer to that mood. Unlike Capo I, infiltration and "double agents" played a huge role here. Since that is exactly what I'd envisioned when I first wrote up Capo in Nov/Dec 2006, I was very gratified to see it play out.
Thanks for a very enjoyable romp.
Game Mechanics, Rules, etc.
I don't think I'll do the buddy thing again. While I thought it added flair, and certainly had some nice nuances -- Louis & the Stracci, Sasaki's "detective" buddy -- I think it has some problems that I don't see an angle on correcting: notably the imbalance of someone not having anything "special" if their buddy is a Wog.
Non-playing members is vexing too. I'd love to hear ideas on how to minimize this effect. I can't think of a game where "townie" is less restrictive than Capo (Scottishranger proves this well I think), but still a goodly portion of the non-players come from the town -- and this takes away from play balance given the large mafia contingent.
I will also, I think, need to go back to the ratio I stumbled upon in Capo I. I originally conceived of 1 famly per 15 players, but ended up with 1 per 18. I think the ratio needs to be 1 for 18-20. Otherwise, I have too few townies to give the town its one true advantage -- numbers.
I loved the favors between families bit. Thought that this would add some fun and I think it did.
I liked having 2 serial killers and thought Hiji's role was a fun one. Ended up being more powerful than I thought it would be.
Never got to see the Crusaders in action. Pity, as I thought that would have been fun -- and Moros was simply wonderful in infiltrating them. This would have made for good Capo Drama.
Director will probably need to be more powerful and more restricted in the next version.
On Playing as the Mafia
Be careful of early kills. Every kill you make in a normal mafia game is one step closer to victory. Every kill in Capo is as well -- but only at the price of giving away information. Families that were very low key -- Cunnio, Tataglia -- were very much in the thick of things at the end.
I think that Capo II has taught future mafia that full trust rapidly given is not necessarily the way to go -- even though you must build trust to truly achieve a well balanced team. Mafia need to keep the "cell" system in mind.
As always, effective recruiting is the tough part. The person who cracks that conundrum completely will rocket to the win, I suspect. If someone can find a way to recruit 6 to 8 wiseguys and townies early on, get them killing as vigilantes to train them up and THEN bringing 4-6 wiseguys into family sanctioned kills (some attrition is to be expected), then suddenly the family "starts" at 3 or 4 kills a night -- and you all remember the sense of dread the "balloon mafia" produced. I think this would be powerful.
Find the wog-baits and murder them. Don't let the host wog them when you can train up your staff on their broken corpses.
On playing as the town
The Town does NOT enjoy the numbers advantage in Capo that it does in other games. This will be true even at the better ratio.
Vigilante efforts, though appealing, may very well be taking out people who would be of much use. Be selective in your kills.
Be very careful about lynches. As was demonstrated, a double lynch is not a guarantee in Capo -- and you can lose your best lynch victim.
Do everything you can to turn out the vote -- large numbers of voters will not favor mafia vote control -- and is the only sure way to prevent the mafia from taking over the lynch.
Anyway -- that'll do for a start. Love to hear thoughts and Ideas from all. Thanks!
Might I add that the thing would had been fair for the town if there were only 1 family gone. I think they were too many.
Yes, 4 families would have been much more balanced than 5.
Great game though Seamus!
The townies needs an incentive to stay pro-town, like becoming more powerful pro-town roles, but takes longer, like killing 4 people gets you to become a police officer type-ish role.
Other than the town losing the game, this was great :2thumbsup:
Or a rogue detective!
That reminds me, Caius once told me he could get promoted to a rogue detective after 4 kills in chat (or was it 4 protections? I forgot...) :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921
Which brings up a question I asked ages ago, why did you behave so supiciously at endgame? Such as trying to read my doctor pm and not voting Craterus. If you told us everything we would have trusted you more :inquisitive:
I started as a wise guy:
2. Combine with 2 townies you can attempt to protect one target per night (after two successful protections, one of you may become a “Doctor “ and can progress from there; if you do you’ll cease being a Wise Guy.
3. If following two successful protections you are selected as Doctor and refuse, you can choose to become a regular townie. Two further successful protections will result in your promotion to Detective – but in your case you will become a Rogue Detective similar to that occurring in Capo-I.
Someone was harsh towards me? I forget why I stopped paying attention to Capo, besides the fact I died and everyone thought I was working for someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
Anyone else notice the Corelones are always doomed?
That shlin.Quote:
3. If following two successful protections you are selected as Doctor and refuse, you can choose to become a regular townie. Two further successful protections will result in your promotion to Detective – but in your case you will become a Rogue Detective similar to that occurring in Capo-I
I get it now :shame:
Hmm, but IMHO shlin´s point still stands. I think we need something to inspire more loyalty among the townies.
It is really difficult to become a detective or doctor. It takes a whole lot a luck. Becoming a made is ridiculously easy compared to the pro townie roles.
How about making it slightly harder to become a made / wise guy?
the intermediate position of wise guys seems ok (though as most went mafia - maybe some very slight bias to town would help) - but making it harder for pure townies to turn, and giving them something easier to aim for on town side might help.
Part of the fun on the mafia side was joining/knowing associates. Most people seem to be quite selfish in game despite whatever their role said they should be. Maybe making town able to have more individual groupings that can achieve own victory condition might help, so you can get equal value from being 'chief of dectectives' to being 'capo de capi'
btw, I'm curious about the crusaders; Seamus do you feel like revealing how that was meant to work?
The entire thing seemed pretty interesting to me. I felt like going townie initially, but then I got pulled into a vigilante mafia, so once I was guilty I might as well keep going.
I would be nice to make it easer to go protown, but then we risk making the town to powerful with protection roles.
I think things were pretty balanced the way they were. If it weren't for JimBob going inactive then the town would have won.
I wanted the crusaders in for flair.
I had thought that, if they all got it together, they'd be a powerful force pro town but, at the endgame, their internal division would cause infighting and then town dissension about whether or not they' been "played" etc. If the town was stomping the mafia as a result of the crusaders unifying townie efforts, this infighting among them was to serve as a balancer.
Didn't play out that way.
GH is right about JimBob's departure throwing a wrench (spanner) in the townie works. Game-breaking? Possibly -- but damaging for a certainty.
The game was very close to balanced as it was. I don't think any major tweaking is necessary, just some minor ones. One flaw was the Crusaders. They were clearly a major pro-town powerhouse role and their loss due to an inactive member hurt us a great deal. It would kind of be on par with a mafia family having an inactive Made at the start. I would suggest either removing roles that require multiple people to work properly, thus ensuring that they aren't neutered by a single inactive player, or intentionally giving those roles to players you know will be active.
As I've stated before, I also think the Director role needs to be beefed up a bit. As it stands now, all it does it make someone immune from death at night. Theoretically, the Director is in charge of the entire lynch vote, and the voting games are a bit ridiculous. If the Director was given some ability to influence the voting in a more pro-active manner, it might make the lynch votes more serious and less gamey. The two options I proposed earlier were (1) to let the Director lynch no one, if he didn't like the vote, and (2) to let the Director extend (or cut off) voting within a certain time frame. This would make winning the Director spot more important. If there was a pro-town Director, he could simply bar the lynch of a person he knew to be pro-town. I don't think this would unbalance the game, since mafia can be elected Director as well.
As the allied mafia system is out of the bottle, may I suggest that the Mafia families got vendettas against some of the other families?
Otherwise this allied system can go out of hand pretty fast, with the mafia teaming up very early.
One that both families knows of (true vendetta) and one that only one of the family knows of (vengence for something for example). And losing to that family is the worst loss aswell. Should ensure that the big happy mafia family is a very unsure buissness.
That's an excellent idea. Just as each family could call in favors from one of the others, perhaps each family has to eliminate one of the others. They cannot win as long as any starting member of that 'vendetta' family remains alive.
Hmm, okQuote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
But then we should make sure that this rule can´t be circumvented if the allied mafiosi create a brand new family.
I went on holiday 16/03 still hoping the town could pull something spectacular off, unfortunatly it didn't come off but the town came close and i would like to congratulate all the pro-town players who almost made it possible!
Gibson and scottish congrats on your victory, glad it went to players who were mafia from the start, well played.
Seamus thanks for an amazing game this was Grizzy's first ever game of mafia and because of this game grizzy will surely try another soon. and you can sign me up for capo 3 right now!! no pressure or anything ;)
scottish started off as a townie and Gibson was a wiseguy, hardly mafia. i think this makes the victory even bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
Gah! im sure someone said they were mafia from the start! grats all the same i guess...
We were anti-town from the start. The number of people scotty and I screwed over... it's amazing. Did I have the most kills too?
Second in kills behind Arach. I think you launched more attacks than anyone, however, since you were active all but 2 nights.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921
Why would a townie be anti-town? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921
It's more fun I guess. He joined killing groups and stuff and then went rogue.
How is becoming doctor and then losing it in 24 hours not fun? :furious3:
Ultimate thread neco but p49 - almost got SRanger killed - finally had to delete the old PM's from this game earlier to play the anniversary one, could have gone so differently.
You had me sweating there a little. I was like: "What, is it time for Capo de tutti Capi again?" :no:
Anti bumping this...