U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

You've summed it up fairly.

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I know!

Guiliani's speech was vastly entertaining.

Guiliani: "Hope isn't a strategy!"

*Crowd cheers and waves signs with "Prosperity!" on them.* :laugh4:



Both of them gave very nice sounding speeches that hit obama pretty hard. But to do so they stretched a few facts a bit to far which will come back to bite them in a debate I bet. Palin stretched the truth so hard it snapped with her "thanks, but no thanks" on the bridge to nowhere comment.



Who was that woman who was leaving the convention center with a bunch of guys in suits part way through the speech?

Great job tonight, that Lady is one tuff cookie. Good luck to all those who are questioning her abilities, I believe she's going to prove a LOT of people wrong.

I thought Palin's speech was very good, although it grates on me to hear Republicans talking about "big government" and "government is too large." I guess they're running against themselves? 'Cause they oversaw an explosion of government under Bush ...

Well - technically she is right. She supported it at first, then declined it - and then the federal government allocated transportation funds for the state instead. It wasn't technically the same allocation, but I see what you mean.

If you look at the real numbers - she has cut earmarks considerably from previous levels. It is very hard to turn off the faucet completely when it was on full blast. She keeps saying the bridge to nowhere thing, so I think that they are poising themselves to defend it in some way. When I first read about it I called BS as well, but as new details come out about it becomes more reasonable, but still a stretch.

Taxes have never "gone down" within recent memory, but they could. For God knows how many years overall tax percentages have constantly gone up under democratic administrations and during Republican administrations they stall and do small ups and downs. As soon as democrats come back into office they creep a little higher. Republicans say that they will reverse the course, but they never do. McCain is running as a spending cutter - which many democrats will admit we desperately need. His primary soapbox used the argument that plenty of Republicans say that they will lower taxes, but it is just a magic act if you don't balance the budget and cut spending - going for a more economical approach to problem solving.

We'll see. With the inclusion of Sarah Palin I do feel like we have the energy, vision, and agenda that puts the White House seriously in play (as opposed to before when we were just being desperately optimistic)

Giuliani's speech was phenomenally funny. I havn't heard much reporting on it so far. Some media outlets are focusing on Mitt's speech which I think I can fairly say was below par for him.

If I had to rate the speeches that I listened to, I'd have to say:
-Palin
-Giuliani
-Huckabee
-Lingle
-Romney

Romney wasn't crisp and hasn't delivered speeches in a while since the end of his campaign. His speech was lifted heavily from his stump speech, unlike the others (maybe I'm just sensitive because I've heard it 100 times). It just seemed a bit out of touch - like he hasn't been paying as much attention since he's been out of the race. I still love the guy, but I'll call a spade a spade (as much as I dislike Huckabee)

Wow, this is weirdly reminiscent of the Jesse Jackson castration video. Peggy Noonan (whom I love) and Mike Murphy thought the mikes were off, and the got all honest on each other. Check it out.

Here's a roundup of pundit reactions, no real surprises: Linky.

Transcript of the Noonan/Murphy dialogue:

Murphy: You know, because I come out of the blue swing state governor work. Engler, Whitman, Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. And these guys, this is all like how you want to (inaudible) this race. You know, just run it up. And it’s not gonna work.

Noonan: It’s over.

Murphy: Still, McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.

CT: Don’t you think the Palin pick was insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too (inaudible)

Noonan: I saw Kay this morning.

Murphy: They’re all bummed out. I mean, is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?

Todd: Yeah, I mean is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?

Noonan: The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political ******** about narratives and (inaudible) the picture. Yeah, but what’s the narrative?

Noonan: Every time the Republicans do that because that’s not where they live and it’s not what they’re good at and they blow it.

Murphy: You know what’s really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism and this is cynical. And as you call it gimmicky.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

Taxes have never "gone down" within recent memory, but they could.

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Pretty sure that's wrong, read a great article about that in The Economist recently, I'll try to source it for you. I guess it also depends on what you mean by "recent memory," but we'll hold off on that.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Wow, this is weirdly reminiscent of the Jesse Jackson castration video. Peggy Noonan (whom I love) and Mike Murphy thought the mikes were off, and the got all honest on each other. Check it out.

Here's a roundup of pundit reactions, no real surprises: Linky.

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She posted a frantic rebuttal to it here. Interestingly, I've suspected her of supporting Obama in this election because she loves talent and the art of persuasion (plus her son is in the Obama camp.) Because she is pretty fair minded and because Palin is such an obvious talent an pro-life to boot, I'd bet she shifts a bit in the coming weeks.

Anyway, I think the Palin coverage will shift in turn from easy shots to more legitimate big dog criticism. She is clearly going to be a player in this election.

Giuliani gave a good speech, and I lost money on the over/under of Sept 11 references. Palin's speech was decent, better than expected but a little long. At times she seemed to be channeling Ann Richards, that will help her in the days ahead. The 80's called Romney though, they wanted their speech back. Why was he railing on and on about liberals running DC? :inquisitive: He is aware the GOP controlled Congress from 94-06, right?

Palin should have gone with a lower cut blouse, and her pregnant daughter has a nice rack. That's about the extent of my political analysis. Waiting anxiously for the campaign trail pictures where McCain seems to be staring inappropriately at Palin. :2thumbsup:

I think when all is said and done this will work out badly for the GOP. When you watch the speeches they're impressive because you see how popular they'll be with the republican base but the news stories about this are going to be about how palin made a divisive and dishonest speech

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I think when all is said and done this will work out badly for the GOP. When you watch the speeches they're impressive because you see how popular they'll be with the republican base but the news stories about this are going to be about how palin made a divisive and dishonest speech

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I'll bet you that is not what happens.

divisive and dishonest has always worked in the past...

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Originally Posted by drone

...her pregnant daughter has a nice rack.

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Yes.

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This is a 17 year old girl and you two are gleefully tarring and feathering her as the town whore. The two of you must be so proud.

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Actually Don its attacking the mother for her comments and attitude , but you are floundering about "abortion" and "the daughters a whore" , neither of which have been said and neither of which are an issue , its all about the policies of the mother , her values and her judgement .
But you can't see that so instead go after fictional attacks to make you feel comfortable .

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Well - technically she is right. She supported it at first, then declined it -

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Palin is John Kerry , she wears flip flops....bloody hell this floundering just gets better and better :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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although it grates on me to hear Republicans talking about "big government" and "government is too large." I guess they're running against themselves?

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:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Guiliani's speech was vastly entertaining.

Guiliani: "Hope isn't a strategy!"

*Crowd cheers and waves signs with "Prosperity!" on them.* :laugh4:

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Political rallies are always a great place to witness senseless mob mentality..

the guy in the pulpit can say virtually anything...it doesn´t matter if it´s true, or even if it makes sense....the crowd will cheer along merrily.

I´m not talking about any particular party here...this is true across the board.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

Political rallies are always a great place to witness senseless mob mentality..

the guy in the pulpit can say virtually anything...it doesn´t matter if it´s true, or even if it makes sense....the crowd will cheer along merrily.

I´m not talking about any particular party here...this is true across the board.

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Yup, it works that way here as well.

This presidential campaign has just given birth (no pun intended) to a new INTERNET acronym

VPIL* - Vice President I'd Like to ......well...you guys probably get the idea...

I think we can all agree that this if nothing else makes this whole process worth it right now!:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

Palin's speech was;

Dig Obama,
Look what I did,
Obama will raise taxes,
Taxes bad,
Alaska has oil,
Obama like foreign energy,
McCain was tortured,
Obama talks to terrorist,
McCain will keep us safe.

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using the same deconstructionist techniques so 'expertly' wielded by yourself i will redact the obama speech:

"hope
dream
dream
hope
dream
hope
hope"

how does that sound?

Quite promising.

Wow I just listened to the speech in its entirety , I didn't realise that Alaskan politician was quite such a brainless idiot .
she really is just amother extension of the Bush idea ...hold on , can that actually be called an idea ?
4 more years

Satire is much more fun. I hope this raises a small smile rather than frothings.

Palin breathed deeply and tried to concentrate. What would Jesus do? He certainly wouldn't abort, that was for darn sure.

Lifting her head, she stared at the picture of President McCain staring back from its black-edged frame on the Oval Office wall. Poor John. After all those worries about his health, who could have guessed he would be accidentally shot by Dick Cheney?

"The Russian media is definitely on a war footing," Zbdgrnkvwrcz chipped in, producing a sheaf of newspapers from his briefcase. "'Sarah wants my pipeline, says Putin'. That's the front page of Pravda . 'I'll show beauty queen the beast, vows Putin'. That's the front page of Izvestia . 'Our Vlad will im-Palin her'. That's on page three of Peasant Moron ."

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Satire is much more fun.

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classic .:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Satire is much more fun. I hope this raises a small smile rather than frothings.

Palin breathed deeply and tried to concentrate. What would Jesus do? He certainly wouldn't abort, that was for darn sure.

Lifting her head, she stared at the picture of President McCain staring back from its black-edged frame on the Oval Office wall. Poor John. After all those worries about his health, who could have guessed he would be accidentally shot by Dick Cheney?

"The Russian media is definitely on a war footing," Zbdgrnkvwrcz chipped in, producing a sheaf of newspapers from his briefcase. "'Sarah wants my pipeline, says Putin'. That's the front page of Pravda . 'I'll show beauty queen the beast, vows Putin'. That's the front page of Izvestia . 'Our Vlad will im-Palin her'. That's on page three of Peasant Moron ."

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And can you really follow what Jesus would do? he´s related to that God guy isn´t he?

God told us to beat our swords into ploughshares....

God....wrong on defense....wrong for America!!! :smash::laugh4:

this guy is on fire this week!

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-04.gif

:laugh4:

Thanks for the good laughs Ronin :grin2:

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Perhaps its like Rabbits floundering earlier , she belongs to a group because she shares their values and message ...but just because she belongs to a group it doesn't mean she shares their values and message .

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What are you going on about? Are you surprised that a person doesn't share every last value of a group they join? That maybe they join a group because of its main values? Can you not distinguish the two? Are you unable or are you just pretending to be that way so you can look clever to yourself?

If I told you a lot of American Catholics don't believe in the no-contraception thing, would you also be surprised by that?

This line of attack is even more useless than your usual ones.

CR

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What are you going on about?

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Errr ...Rabbit it was you wasn't it :yes:
It was you who posted a quote from a link that said the criticism of her views doesn't hold because she belongs to a group that has stated policies , that implies she agrees with those policies espoused doesn't it . Yet when you say that she doesn't neccesarily agree with the policies of that group then the claim that the criticism doesn't hold because she belongs to a group falls apart .
You cannot have it both ways .


But anyway back to the daughter thing , if this womans children are off limits during the campaign does that mean she will no longer tout her son as doing his patriotic duty or her bravery in not aborting a child with a genetic defect ?
Or is it a case of the usual hypocricy where crappy smear stories are OK as long as they are about the other side and families can only be on the agenda if they are being portrayed to the candidates advantage .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

But anyway back to the daughter thing , if this womans children are off limits during the campaign does that mean she will no longer tout her son as doing his patriotic duty or her bravery in not aborting a child with a genetic defect ?
Or is it a case of the usual hypocricy where crappy smear stories are OK as long as they are about the other side and families can only be on the agenda if they are being portrayed to the candidates advantage .

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No no no. Its ok to make fun of someone's wife for papers she wrote in college. :wall:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317577,00.html

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On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.

Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves.

And by the way, the mother, Lynne Spears, has reportedly already sold pictures of the upcoming baby of her 16-year-old for a million bucks. Incredible pinhead.

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No no no. Its ok to make fun of someone's wife for papers she wrote in college.

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What?????? you mean Palin is really a carpet muncher and has had a gay marriage , blimey I didn't realise it went that far . I should have known Rabbit was right , just because she belongs to a group that is against that sort of thing it desn't mean she is actually against it, she just likes groups .
You are talking about the liberal media and the democrat attack machine going after Palins' family aren't you ?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

What?????? you mean Palin is really a carpet muncher and has had a gay marriage , blimey I didn't realise it went that far . I should have known Rabbit was right , just because she belongs to a group that is against that sort of thing it desn't mean she is actually against it, she just likes groups .
You are talking about the liberal media and the democrat attack machine going after Palins' family aren't you ?

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Oh yea. That liberal media thank god there the way they are. Protecting us and such because if they wernt we'd have about 8 months of hypocrisy to go through.

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You cannot have it both ways .

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So you really don't get it? I should have known when you didn't want to answer any of the accompanying questions.

She agrees with the main policies of the group, which go directly against the smear you made. That doesn't mean she agrees with every little policy of the group. Like how registered Republicans don't always agree with everything in the Republican platform.

Meh, screw it. I guess I should just ask my standard tribesy question; do you really not get it or are you just being obtuse?

CR