Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

I need to make a correction here before I have to commit myself to the Jerkwad Center for Hypocrisy. What I said in my previous post about Sasaki's changed vote was wrong. I was wrong because Proletariat was wrong. She said Sasaki changed his vote 4 minutes before the deadline and linked to this post. I took it for granted that she was correct, which in hindsight was a dumb thing to do.

The problem is that that post was actually 1 hour and 4 minutes before the deadline and it wasn't Sasaki's last vote post. This was Sasaki's last vote post, it occurred 27 minutes before the deadline and he edited it 5 minutes later, 22 minutes before the deadline.

At the time GH and Sasaki decided to try and bandwagon Andres/Louis, the tally was as follows:

Omanes: 9 (Chimp, CountA, GH, gibson, Kamikhaan, Lt.Pin, NorthN, Scottish, TinCow)
Dutch_guy: 6 (Andres, Brave, Caius, Charge, Kage, Kommo, )
GH: 9 (ajaxfetish, Dutch, Husar, Omanes, Proletariat, TruePretorian, Xiahou, Sasaki, Sigurd)
Sigurd: 3 (Elite Ferret, Ichigo, Tran)
Andres: 2 (CR, Craterus)
Xdeathfire: 1 (shlin28)
Abstains: 11 (, Haudegen, hiji, Ironside, Kukri, LittleGriz, Maya, NN, Sarathos, Warluster, w&f, Xehh II)

The first vote change after this was GH, who switched from Omanes to Louis. This was due to an erroneous understanding on who they were going to bandwagon. He thought it was Louis, when it was actually Andres. He then switched it from Louis to Andres, which had the same result on the GH/Omanes/Dutch Guy vote count. GH’s vote change actually made him MORE vulnerable, since it put him 1 vote up on everyone else.

GH: 9
Omanes: 8
Dutch Guy: 6
Andres: 3

Sasaki then changed his vote to Louis, presumably after seeing GH’s original Louis vote, but not his altered Andres vote. Then saw GH's vote change to Andres, and followed suit. Regardless, he pulled his vote off GH. This RE-TIED THE VOTE BETWEEN OMANES AND GH. Sasaki's action made them both viable lynches, it did not let GH off the hook.

GH: 8
Omanes: 8
Dutch Guy: 6
Andres: 4

Factionheir then joined the bandwagon on Andres:

GH: 8
Omanes: 8
Dutch Guy: 6
Andres: 5

This is how it remained, until the very last vote, which was cast by Hiji 19 minutes before the deadline. He changed his vote from Abstain to Omanes.

Omanes: 9
GH: 8
Dutch Guy: 6
Andres: 5

This action put Omanes 1 up on GH and resulted in a single lynch instead of a double.

So, my original statement still stands that Sasaki did not spare GH in any way. His first vote change made GH more likely to be lynched. His second vote change made it a tie between Omanes and GH. His edit was due to GH's own vote change, which was due to a misunderstanding on who they were going to try and pump up the votes on.

Ug, I've been staring at this thread for far too long now. This game needs a rule limiting the number of times people can change their votes per day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Andres, I strongly suggest sharing your incriminating information, you can't reveal PMs after death

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I shared enough information. There are alot of very capable people still alive in this game.

You should know what to do next.

Whatever Seamus' decision about what me and Dutch_guy proposed is, it's game over for us.

We are defeated.

The only option left imo, is leaving this game honorably.

I wish you all the best of luck :2thumbsup:

I'd like it to be known that I'm still around even though I havent been posting

But if you are around and not posting, whats the point of you being around? I think thats a deliberate WOG evasion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twilightblade

I'd like it to be known that I'm still around even though I havent been posting

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Can you comment on something?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

Vote: Rythmic

His behavioral patterns, as detected by Holmes, are rather fishy...

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Kommodus as good as Holmes is, it can't detect personal issues. I've been away at a University camp, and didn't get time to post my absence from the fora. :bow:

More to follow...

Edit: I'd also like to mention that if anyone had bothered to check my user profile they would have noticed that the last time I was active before today was on Wednesday morning (Australian time)/Tuesday afternoon (US time) completely missing both the last Night and Day phases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rythmic

Kommodus as good as Holmes is, it can't detect personal issues. I've been away at a University camp, and didn't get time to post my absence from the fora. :bow:

More to follow...

Edit: I'd also like to mention that if anyone had bothered to check my user profile they would have noticed that the last time I was active before today was on Wednesday morning (Australian time)/Tuesday afternoon (US time) completely missing both the last Night and Day phases.

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On the other hand, there are some mafia families that didn't kill yet in this game :inquisitive:

On the other hand, where is everybody?
I am guessing they are all still reading page 46..

Is Louis dead yet? I lynch anyone to get that song on a CD!

"You told me a lie, naughty Louis, You were actually a spy, sneaky Louis.."

It's still night. Seamus extended this night phase to 8.00 EST (13.00 GMT).

Well people, I'm backing off of this game. It's very big/time-absorbing, and I got loads to do the following days. I don't have time to follow properly anymore, so...

Good luck! :book:

Night 4 is concluded. No further PMs accepted. Day phase will begin as soon as I can summarize and post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

I call upon the Mafia families: make an example out of Louis. Once he's no longer director, kill him. This sort of disrespect and treason towards a mafia family cannot go unnoticed.

Good luck to the remaining mafia families! Watch out for traitors!

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Got you good, didn't I?

Anyway, I must say that I am amazed that people can walk up the stage, openly announce themselves as mafia, tell the town that it is outrageous that mafia should be hunted down, and that the town should immediately kill these nasty mafia hunters to set a clear example.

Actually, no, I am not amazed about that. What I am amazed about is that some townies would actually agree to it.

It is stupidity to the point of absurdity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glenn

Is Louis dead yet? I lynch anyone to get that song on a CD!

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Hello Glenn,

I have been the one single player with the most faith in you and JimBob. I have tried to save you from lynching at every opportunity. I have given it my best to organise protection groups, even when few players would believe in your innocence.

I shall even name you the people who killed you. You and everybody else read it here for the first time: Don Corleone.

That you and JimBob, and, no doubt, soon the third, are now under the spell of this same Don Corleone family is bitter and painful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omanes

Louis was newly promoted to Made

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki

Louis is now a made.

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Both are quite incorrect.

Conspiring with confirmed mafia, Sasaki?

I see you repeat every lie and disinformation this self-professed family spreads. A concerted effort? Have you been recruiting their remnants, for the coming surprises tonight?

I wonder what you have decided together with the other families at the meeting that your family, the Don Corleones, asked them to come to.

Post flooding alert!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tran

He's trying to throw the suspicion into my direction. I'm not in any crime family, I did nothing in Night 1 and 2, and in Night 3 I failed to send my orders to protect someone. I believe Kommodus, GH, and LittleGrizzly can confirm this.

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Lies. You were a wiseguy with the Stracchi's. You killed Pannonian together with me. You can read all they had to say about you later. ~;)

Are you now part of Kommodus' family then?


@Kommodus, on N1, a rogue detective – who doesn’t give inaccurate results – showed you as criminal. JimBob showed you as criminal too.

Yet, you said in the thread that you should show up as ‘innocent’. This is a lie.

I am wondering, though. You are too experienced to simply lie about your status. Have you replaced the don of a family then? Did you know that Taka / Beefy would be attacked? Were you, perhaps, the luca of either one?

Here, you can all read up on the exact dealings with the Stracchi family. You will see that, unlike the claims from their ‘revelations’, Tran was indeed a recruited wiseguy. Also, Ichigo, would you mind explaining your recent dealings with them for us? Are you that ‘new wiseguy’ they are talking about?

It’s a long read, but full of goodies! Read from bottom to top.

The secret hideout from the Stracchi’s:

Part IV

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Andres 89

14-02-2008 09:28 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 14-02-2008 09:45 don't post here anymore. Louis is reading this.

posts 78 - 89 can not be made public. They must be considered a post-mortem reveal, now that Omanes is dead.


Andres 77

13-02-2008 22:31 GMT (UK)
He claims Omanes told him. Apparantly Omanes somehow thought Louis was a Made by now.I don't blame Omanes though, Louis has played a dirty game.He wants me to survive. Probably he needs me to make his own Stracci family. Frankly, I don't understand it. We were doing good. Ok, I might have died as well as Louis, but we still had Tran and potential Wiseguy recruits.Now we lose three trustworthy members and we keep me (and all of this doesn't guarantee my survival one bit) and Louis (he might end up lynched as well, people will come back on this episode).What do you guys say? a) Louis blew it. We don't want to continue with this snake and we take him down with us.b) Louis has a masterplan, so let's play along. We can always take our revenge later on in case he does not have a master plan.What's your opinion Louis? We know you are reading this. Stop hiding.
Dutch 76

13-02-2008 22:24 GMT (UK)
How the hell did he figure out who else was in our family in the first place ? He only ever spoke directly with Andres, and I daresay anyone else would have been able to figure out our actual Role PMs.How weird, gonna be hard for us to turn this around for the best.
Andres 75

13-02-2008 22:02 GMT (UK)
Ok, I really didn't like what Louis did. It's despicable. For some reason, he wants me to live. I suspect him of wanting to abuse me further, to become Don Stracci.What do we do? We take down the rat Louis with us or we accept his backstabbing and I continue play with him (as long as I live, Stracci family is still there and we can still win this game).
Andres 74

13-02-2008 21:58 GMT (UK)
Omanes, did you tell Louis your identity?


Andres 73

13-02-2008 20:17 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 20:19 I ordered Louis to lynch anybody but me in case of a tie. I hope he realises both him and me are dead meat anyway.EDIT: I'll go and take a look in the chatroom. See what I can find.
Andres 72

13-02-2008 20:07 GMT (UK)
Capisce, Don Stracci
Omanes 71

13-02-2008 20:07 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 20:07 No - that could result in a mass number of fake wise guys trying to get into our ranks. I would rather avoid that.BTW, you may also want to contact Kommodus. He also claims wise guys status.
Andres 70

13-02-2008 20:02 GMT (UK)
Should I recruit in the thread as well?
Omanes 69

13-02-2008 20:00 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 20:04 Yep, go ahead. The only problem is that working with Louis slows down the process slightly - Tran cannot really work with him if Ichigo is. We could try a three player kill, but I would prefer to avoid revealing too much to any recruited player at such an early stage.
Andres 68

13-02-2008 19:48 GMT (UK)
Ichigo can cooperate with me or Louis next night. If he does what is told, we can let him work with Tran (who is still avoiding suspicion) afterwards.Dutch and Omanes, you guys are no suspects atm, I'd prefer to keep you identity secret.You know what? I'm going to die anyway. I'll contact BKS, WH and Ichigo. They are Wiseguys. Agree?
Dutch 67

13-02-2008 19:07 GMT (UK)
That sounds like a good plan, as I don't give Andres and Louis that much longer to live anyway. Unless something more pressing comes up to divert attention, but seems unlikely at this point.
Omanes 66

13-02-2008 17:33 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 17:48 For an unexplainable reason, Louis is coming slightly under the focus of the town. I can see him becoming a lynch target over the next few days.Going back on my plan of no further recruitment, I think it is time for Andres to attempt to drag in wise guys to replace the losses which it seems we are going to take - Ichigo is identified as one. It may be risky, but at this stage we have nothing to lose by using Andres for this purpose. If he does wish to enrol, we can group him up with Dutch_guy to ensure minimal contact from all wise guys with the current mafia core. I know this will leave me unprotected, but this is a risk I'm willing to take.
Omanes 65

13-02-2008 16:06 GMT (UK)
There must be some form of luck involved in kills. It's the only viable explanation, either that or there is something special about him we don't know. That's the problem with the red area in role PMs.
Dutch 64

13-02-2008 15:26 GMT (UK)
Yes, Sigurd needs to go. But how and why did the GH hit fail ? He wasn't protected, the story sort of rules that out, and as far as I know we both sent in our orders on time.
Omanes 63

13-02-2008 13:15 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 13:18 I must admit that I have no doubt that he is a Don of sorts.On a second thought perhaps he should become our target tonight rather than Ichigo. If you manage to live till tomorrow Andres, and if he's mysteriously saved, which he probably will be, then he is almost guaranteed to end up the main target, hopefully drawing suspicious eyes away from you.
Andres 62

13-02-2008 12:14 GMT (UK)
Sigurd was really pressing for my lynch and unvoted me for a crappy reason.Is it possible that Sigurd is Don Barzini? They want me dead.

Omanes 61

13-02-2008 07:34 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 11:17 I've chose to promote Louis to Made status. Once I get confirmation from Seamus I'll let him enter this secret area - once he's in, he can't turn back.taka and Beefy187's murders perfectly fit the characteristics of Dons who are without their Luca, so I'm exceedingly pleased they are gone. It leaves us free to remove other less high priority individuals over the following nights.So then, who to kill? I would prefer the targeting of only one player tonight using only Louis and Tran. I was thinking of Ichigo - he claims to be a wise guy and probably has decided his own path by now. This means he is either in with another family (probably inconvertible) or is pro-town. We could try and recruit him, but, as said, he's had enough time to determine his true loyalties.If we perform one kill, and Andres survives the day, we now have three investigations. Louis has one and Andres has two. As I said before, there is no point in trying to use them for recruitment purposes - we don't really need any extras and any wise guys that are lying around probably will have chosen their path. We probably should use our results more for locating victims for our kills (if anybody comes out criminal they instantaneously end up on the "to kill" list). I'll let the investigators choose who they want to look into for now. I can't really think of anybody.


Omanes 60

11-02-2008 20:18 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 11:16 Sorry - I missed out a key part - I meant Andres' "B" plan. Dutch_guy and Andres team up to kill GH, while Tran and Louis gang together to remove Pannonion.Although leaving me unprotected does increase my vulnerability, my PM states that I am fairly lucky when it comes to attacks compared to other players. I also think that two kills probably would be of a higher value than two investigations now recruitment isn't too critical.Andres, didn't you say that you thought that BKS was a wise guy? If so, you may wish to contact him. Do it as discreetly as possible though to avoid him causing too much damage should you be wrong.On another note, who to investigate? I was thinking of using the results to detect people to murder now rather than individuals to recruit. I say we look into Beefy187 and later taka. I am inclined to think they both are Dons, so if they turn up innocent we will have probably know this is the case.

Part III

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dutch 59
11-02-2008 19:20 GMT (UK)
Perhaps someone in the all-Dutch protectiongroup? Like Moros ? I have a feeling that we stand a chance of persuading him to, if need be, join our ranks if he turns out to be some sort of innocent towny or a wiseguy sort of criminal with higher ambitions. Other than that I have no idea, as all of the more active players have all been picked already, or will be this round. Anyway, I'll be protecting you then, Omanes ? Fine with that.
Omanes 58

11-02-2008 17:34 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 11-02-2008 20:11 We'll go with Andres' proposition for now.Any ideas who Andres should perform an investigation on?


Dutch 57

11-02-2008 17:27 GMT (UK)
In any case, taking out one player tonight is fine with me. If Omanes feels he can live through the night without an attempt on his life, and feels good about it, then Andres and I can team up (for old times sake) and kill GenH.
Andres 56

11-02-2008 16:41 GMT (UK)
I asked Seamus if it's possible for two Wiseguys to perform a succesful kill at night if they are doing it for a family.If so, I suggest Tran and Louis take out Pann. I can a) investigate two players ; b) team up with Dutch and try to kill GH once more. Off course, option b) means that Omanes stays unprotected tonight.
Andres 55

11-02-2008 16:23 GMT (UK)
After the failed attempt last night, GH probably will try to arrange some protection.So, BKS stays alive for now? We go after Pannonian then. I'll talk it over with Louis.
Dutch 54

11-02-2008 16:00 GMT (UK)
perhaps, but that means we should let him live. Anyway, Pannonian and GH should be killed next round. I suggest we murder Pannonian. At least two people suggested they received information that he acted like a criminal on at least one of the nights. Those (...dubious) claims and his reputation as a rather good player are reason enough for me to want him dead. Leaving him alive to garner suspicion isn't as good an action as it is in smaller games. Who knows what kind of reveal may happen this day or the next, deviating the attention away from him - yet again.
Omanes 53

11-02-2008 08:54 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 11-02-2008 08:54 Interesting - WH last visited the .Org on the 5th of February, six days ago. The mafia(s) seem a less active than I expected - perhaps he's a Made, holding a family's progress back?
Andres 52

10-02-2008 23:05 GMT (UK)
Warmaster Horus = criminal
Omanes 51

10-02-2008 18:25 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 11:14 Seems Seamus made an error in the creation of the write up - Andres lives, so everything isn't quite as dire as I originally suspected.As I said before though, Louis cannot not be trusted fully from this point onwards unless we are absolutely certain he is supporting us 100%. I would prefer him to be removed from our plans, but knowing Andres' identity already, the damage he could do now is no higher than what he could do later. His reluctance to participate in GH's murder and his secrecy regarding it makes me very, very wary of his true intentions though.On another note, taka's kill is like Beefy's - it fits in with that of a Don without their Luca's assistance. He would probably be a worthwhile target.
Omanes 50

10-02-2008 16:25 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 13-02-2008 11:15 Beefy187 wasn't killed - I'm quite surprised. I also thought that Andres was "unkillable" for the night. Very odd.Regardless, we shall recover. Louis cannot really be trusted from this point onwards - it's Ok revealing one of us, revealing two is fairly risky. We'll still try and link up Tran and BKS though and hope we can get them killing for us. Without Andres to do this as a proxy though, I do feel we are a little stuck - we either risk me ending up alone, or we send out you as his replacement. It's odd how the game turns around - yesterday everything was so rosy, today we are fairly vulnerable.For now I'll try my best to slip under the radar in the thread and remain as unnoticed as I can without getting accused of lurking. In the meantime, you can discreetly contact BKS and Tran. When it comes down to it, they can work together for the family with orders from us. At the worst they will end up feeding information to pro-town/mafia groups, probably killing one another and you. We just have to hope that won't happen.
Dutch 49

10-02-2008 15:51 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 10-02-2008 15:54 To expand on Omanes' reasoning, I'm quite dubious of Louis' intentions. Apparantly Andres was killed by Don Barzini, it's not unthinkable that Louis was in fact Barzini's made gangster, or I'm I wrong in thinking this? That said, it'll be quite hard for us to function without another killer, keeping in mind the safety of our Don. GeneralH, Drake need to go. generalH surviving yet another attack isn't good for us anyway, whatever his role may be.A quick EDIT: You know how we had the option of 'ordering' a kill with the Corleone family, well, it seems Andres was the victim of just one of those 'ordered' kills (prego, Don Barzino - You're welcome, Don Barzini). A random pick, or was this more than that ? Anyone in direct contact with Andres is a suspect, in my opinion.
Omanes 48

10-02-2008 07:23 GMT (UK)
Contact BKS and Tran if you are positive they won't betray us Andres. As before, keep me and Dutch_guy a total secret to them in case they have any plans beyond what we can directly see of them.If they both agree to join our outfit, they can work together under your orders for the family while you still work with Louis - two kills per night will be a lot better for us than one.On another note Andres, do you trust Louis? I'm unsure as to why he seemed so reluctant to kill GH in the first place, and then later withdrew because he was undergoing investigation. Are you sure his intentions are in our favour?
Dutch 47

09-02-2008 23:17 GMT (UK)
Perhaps contacting BKS in some sort of way would expand our influence somewhat ? He's one of those people who tends to get killed instead of lynched, unlike you, Andres, which can be a definite advantage to the family.
Andres 46

09-02-2008 21:33 GMT (UK)
Sorry for the double post. Louis panicked last night. He said he was "threatened" with an investigation. He also said I would be investigated as well. So he called the attack of, to avoid being found "guilty".Probably for the best. Unfortunately, I wasn't online from Friday afternoon until now, so I was too late to cancel my N2 orders. This probably mean a failed attempt on GH + a guilty result on me in case of an investigation.BKS is probably a Wiseguy. BKS+Louis+Tran = Three wiseguys, they can kill for the family...
Andres 45

09-02-2008 21:31 GMT (UK)
Tran contacted me. He wants to work together with me, it doesn't matter if I'm pro-town or mafia he says. He claims to be a Wiseguy, which is a flexible role...
Omanes 44

09-02-2008 08:43 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 09-02-2008 17:32 It seems that Tiberius of the Drake is in the Corleone family - his Don decrees that they must murder Beefy187 - the individual who I asked them to depose of.Regardless, I would say that he ought to be our murder target tomorrow night - if he survives the day that is.
Andres 43

08-02-2008 15:51 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 08-02-2008 15:52 I convinced Louis to cooperate in the assassination of GH. So GH will be our target.I can't be lynched tomorrow. So I can kill the next night as well.Besides, maybe I already got investigated and this is just a trick of Moros and co to avoid me killing tonight.
Omanes 42

08-02-2008 15:18 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 08-02-2008 15:20 Sorry Andres, I missed your original post - it was made within seconds of mine which probably caused the problem.I must admit that I would prefer you to avoid killing on this night phase and hope for the best. If your judgement thinks it's advisable though, you can carry on with the planned kill on BKS. Ensure you survive on the following day phase to see Louis through to "Made" though - this is critical in ensuring his loyalty.

Omanes 41

08-02-2008 14:12 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 08-02-2008 15:20 You'll have to kill BKS then - we'll deal with GH when Louis is promoted to Made - something I want to get done most urgently. I'm concerned about what these "restrictions" are though, and what effect they may have on our plans and goals.

Part II

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Andres 40

08-02-2008 14:11 GMT (UK)
Ok, Moros told me that I'm going to be investigated tonight. If I participate in a killing the night I get investigated, I'll turn up as guilty. If I don't participate, I'll show up as "criminal".Frankly, I don't think I'll survive very long in this game. Might as well continue with the assasination.

Andres 39

08-02-2008 09:09 GMT (UK)
Louis told me that he cannot participate in a killing on GH.He wrote this:" Also, I was given a very good lead on a mafioso. His name is " GeneralHandkerchief. " If he is one of us, then I need to know NOW so I can spread " disinformation. And we'll need to think about damage control as well." If he is not one of us, I think we need to kill him right away. He is a " pro, far too good a player to be left alive as mafia competition." Can our family do two kills tonight? There are certain...'restrictions' " that I am not allowed to discuss that prevent me from joining a kill on " him. But I think it is extremely urgent that we take GH out as soon as " possible.
Dutch 38

07-02-2008 21:15 GMT (UK)
Well Andres, I'll take your word for it. Well, we might as well kill GH tonight, instead of BKS. If we have enough reason to think we'd be killing a rival mafioso (we seem to have), then why should we not take the opportunity ? BKS can always die at a later time.
Omanes 37

07-02-2008 19:59 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 20:00 Tonight then, so far:Andres and Louis are killing Big King Santaphax (subject to change)Dutch_guy is protecting meAndres is investigating Warmaster Horus.Don Corelone's mafia will be killing Beefy187.I think Louis' claim may change things a little bit. I was positive that GH was mafia from the moment he started acting tetchy, so I have no doubt in my mind that Louis is telling the truth/is correct.Do you guys think it would be a good idea to get rid of GH, or should we stick with the original plan and remove the more obscure BKS?
Andres 36

07-02-2008 19:29 GMT (UK)
He didn't. One thing is for sure: I can trust Louis.
Dutch 35

07-02-2008 19:01 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 19:05 Sounds good Omanes. And Andres, how did Louis back up his claim ?
Andres 34

07-02-2008 18:45 GMT (UK)
Louis told me he's 100 % that GeneralHankerchief is mafia.
Omanes 33

07-02-2008 16:52 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 16:53 Tonight then, so far:Andres and Louis are killing Big King SantaphaxDutch_guy is protecting meDon Corelone's mafia will be killing a player who has not yet been decided.On that note, who should we investigate this night and who should we ask Corelone to deal with. On the investigative side of thinks, I think we should go for Warmaster Horus - he hasn't been online recently, so he probably won't respond to any "Join the Corelone family" messages they may throw it him should he appear to be a Wise Guy.As for the Corelone's kill, I say Beefy187 - he probably will be guarded by his Luca, should he be a mafia Don, but if he's saved again then I'm positive the town may start to look a little more closely at him. We may not have to kill him after all.
Dutch 32

07-02-2008 15:08 GMT (UK)
''On another note, pevergreen claims to be a Wise Guy. Does anybody fancy calling on him for recruitment at a later stage?''I suppose we could once the playing field thins out a little, and we get a somewhat better idea of the various families, townies and other roles. I don't like the idea of trying to win him over to our side, when he seems to lead quite a large bunch of people - who may just come to suspect something. Let's wait a bit before trying, if we decide to do so at all, to win him over.
Omanes 31

07-02-2008 13:03 GMT (UK)
Deleted by author 07-02-2008 13:04
Andres 30

07-02-2008 12:57 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 12:59 I killed, I didn't investigate.TS might not be a good choice indeed. Any other suggestions?EDIT: Damn! My role pm says I can still investigate one person if I'm involved in a murder. Bugger! I feel stupid now. Missed an opportunity.
Omanes 29

07-02-2008 12:34 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 12:58 I'll drop Seamus a PM asking Don C to deal with TS on the night phase. I'm not too sure if this is the correct move though, since TS may end up murdered anyhow. We'll have to give him information in return for his "favour" - according to my PM, this is defined by the same nights investigate results being granted to him.Go ahead and kill BKS with Louis if you wish Andres.On another note, pevergreen claims to be a Wise Guy. Does anybody fancy calling on him for recruitment at a later stage?BTW, Andres, what investigative results did you gain for N1?
Andres 28

07-02-2008 11:02 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 11:51 I'd prefer to hit someone with a low profile. A guaranteed kill. I want Louis to become a Made asap and only succesfull kills will achieve that.I'm the director tomorrow, so I won't get lynched. This night = I kill with Louis, next day = I'm guaranteed to say alive; next night = I kill with Louis = we have two Mades ;)What do you guys think of BKS as target for the next night?Omanes, can't you ask Don Corleone to take out Sigurd or TS?
Dutch 27

06-02-2008 22:29 GMT (UK)
Perhaps taking out either Pannonian or someone like Norwegian Nerd (his buddy comment struck me, as a Luca, as very interesting) should be done tonight? I wouldn't mind losing TS either, but I have a feeling he won't last the night anyway. By the by, I have not taken to infiltrating Pever's group yet. Doesn't seem in our interest to infiltrate a group headed by a suspicious player, whom we know absolutely nothing about. Plus, he'll probably get lynched tonight too. Anyway, Beefy, Sigurd, and NR should be dealt with in coming rounds. If we can't decide upon one of the above, we could always just pick some random individual.
Omanes 26

06-02-2008 20:57 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 07-02-2008 07:38 It sounds that he may be a Don without his Luca, yes. Sadly we can't suggest that Dons can survive a single attempt on their life alone - it's not mentioned in the rules and only I and other Dons have knowledge of it.We'll have to kill him manually it seems, although I don't doubt he'll pull his Luca in to protect him after last nights events. This probably will make things much harder.On that note, who to kill tonight. I want Dutch_guy with me, while Andres and Louis kill a selected individual. Any ideas for who to get rid of? According to Drisos, who we killed, Sigurd (Don) and The Stranger are on a mafia team. I don't doubt that somebody will go after them as a vigilante the following night, so probably aren't really worth considering.


Andres 25

06-02-2008 20:32 GMT (UK)
Beefy survived without somebody helping him...Is it possible that he's a Mafia Don?
Dutch 24

06-02-2008 18:10 GMT (UK)
TS's reply to Glenn is cliché even for TS, I'm not taking it as serious as Glenn is, quite frankly. I'll send Pever a PM, stating my cautious interest in assisting him and his 'followers'.
Omanes 23

06-02-2008 16:33 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 06-02-2008 16:41 Glenn seems to be a wise guy from what he's said, although he hasn't actually confirmed it fully. We can't really recruit him though, since he claims to be sworn pro-town. He's told me nothing major I don't know, sadly, but here's what he said in his reply anyhow:I have some information on Louis VI the Fat.It cannot be harmful to me, I shall share it.The Stranger for some time had been attempting to recruit me into a, 'protectiongroup', I at first assumed his innocence, as an honest man should.Then he became more and more forceful.In short, I asked him, "Can I refuse this offer?"The reply, "My offer you can't refuse".Now, regardless of my current friends, my role, or allegiance, I was forced to join under penalty of death.He threatened to have a huge bandwagon attempt put against me - which suggests strong connections in itself.Now - as a supposed member of this group, I am protecting Louis VI the Fat tonight with TruePraetorian and Dutch_Guy, both of which confirmed to me they were involved, both were very cautious.I have a contact in Stranger's other, "Protectiongroup".You handle your information like currency, I believe I have repaid you.I could tell you my role, but I could tell you anything regarding that. And I might break the rules in doing so in any case..I can tell you, I am a sworn pro-townie.I am going to bed, we may even settle an arrangement here without ever trusting each other.I don't know who Louis VI is, but note this - he attacked me in the Public thread long after I agreed to a protection - is he blind to those who serve him?Even if he is a townie, he has evil intentions.Good luck, Omanes - I hope this eases your suspicions somewhat.He's onto Louis, but I doubt anybody is going to listen to him - Glenn right now has too much suspicion focused upon him for anybody to listen if he says anything. His reasoning is also fairly poor, so I don't think it would do us much harm if he were to point it out.I say yes to your infiltration of pevergreen's group Dutch_guy, although I was considering doing it myself. Drop him a PM offering to assist, and we'll see how it progresses from there.
Dutch 22

06-02-2008 15:16 GMT (UK)
I could join Pever's group, people don't tend to suspect me as I keep a low profile in the initial stage of the game. I'd be able to provide info on the members of the group, and their actions. Glenn's communication with you sounds sort of sincere, but I wouldn't know in what way he'd be able to further our cause. I daresay he'd be gullible enough to let names slip which would be useful to us, but then again, who knows Anyway, Idon't quite know what to think about Glenn as of yet, but I don't see any problems with him contacting us (You, in this case though).
Omanes 21

06-02-2008 12:24 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 06-02-2008 13:04 Glenn has contacted me:It is impossible for either of us to declare the other innocent.But I have observed the motions of the public thread, and contacted some who showed rational reasoning - by rational I mean a broadened attention span in comparison to the likes of Ichigo and Sasaki.Some I came across gave me the impression I was staring into the gleaming teeth of a wolf.Some I was so lucky to find that I now can claim to have one good contact in this game.You don't need to know anymore, all I want to tell you is that I saw the same attitude in you that I saw in all the people who have been good to me.I have decided to take the first step in determining wether we can help each other.I can make a claim, due to my extreme luck and my boldness in PMing, to a reasonably successful intelligence network, and a good list of suspects and friends myself.I want to share this with the right people.Is there any way we can come to an agreement here?I've asked him what exactly he had in mind. I've told him that I believe Louis to be a Wise Guy and that he has a set of individuals following him which may be important in securing a townie victory. This was a bit of a risky move, I know, but if Glenn is innocent and he's looking for somebody to follow, along with a small number of other individuals, Louis could be a perfect agent for town manipulation.Also, pevergreen has thirteen individuals on his side. It may be useful to try and find out as much information as possible about this group, possibly through infiltration. It also may be a good idea to participate in it if we want individuals to back us up at a later stage. We'll see how things go.

Part I

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dutch 20

05-02-2008 20:44 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 21:02 OK.Nice to have Louis on board, although scepticism is warranted I should say. First of all, can he not be a gangster from another family seeking to infiltrate ours ? He'd gladly kill someone, Drisos in the case, to do that.EDIT:Protecting PM sent to Seamus.
Andres 19

05-02-2008 20:15 GMT (UK)
a ballerina shoe it is then
Omanes 18

05-02-2008 20:02 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 20:13 If we can gather a large group around Louis, which seems possible (at current he is a townie magnet), then they could be easily be used unknowingly as agents. Although recruitment could be a possibility, it would take too long (three kills for an innocent to turn into a wise guy, and further three to promote them to made) and would be too risky to be worthwhile.The detective can be used for the purposes of finding recruits (as long as Louis can keep him from looking at us that is). The only problem with the detective is his knowledge of Louis' status - this may result in him doubting him at a later stage.As for the Doctor, I'm not too sure about him. I do believe he, like any other innocent, can kill three times for wise guy status, and then a further three for made status. The problem is the length of time and, as with other townies, whether he has the wish to enrol in the family.BTW, when you send the kill in, can you place a notification of the item we are using (at current the pink ballet shoe) somewhere in the PM. I've spammed Seamus' inbox a little too much over the past four hours.
Andres 17

05-02-2008 19:54 GMT (UK)
Ok Don Stracci. I sent my answer to Louis to you and Dutch as well. Don't worry, he can't see who has been put in CC.
Omanes 16

05-02-2008 19:50 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 19:53 Yep, join with Louis (although do bear in mind that training him to be a Made is a three night commitment). Don't reveal any of us beyond you to him until he is a Made though. Up to then he still can betray us/"go straight" behind our back. The reveal of one gangster can be recovered from, while the reveal of us all is deadly.
Andres 15

05-02-2008 19:39 GMT (UK)
Louis VI the Fat is a wise guy and wants to join us. I think I can believe his claim.How about Dutch protects Omanes and me and Louis kill Drisos? The sooner Louis gets to be a Made Gangster, the better I think.I suggest I work with Louis tonight. If it works (i.e. there is a kill description on Drisos), then we have a fourth member.
Dutch 14

05-02-2008 17:59 GMT (UK)
sorry for the triple posting. but another group has just contacted me, and I replied positively to their idea of protecting Louis. I won't, naturally, and blame the fact that I was already protecting Sigurd with TS's other PT group. Is that a workable excuse, you think ?BTW, the group is 'led' by TS and Glenn and TruePraetorian are the other two members.
Dutch 13

05-02-2008 17:36 GMT (UK)
Also, just to be sure, I wouldn't object to killing Drisos tonight - I've sent a PM to Seamus stating just that.
Dutch 12

05-02-2008 17:29 GMT (UK)
Well, someone 'obscure' is a fairly objective term. As obviously the role assignment was done randomly. Anyone could yield a potential useful result. Random picking someone seems best to me. Also, if our investigation yields a 'guilty/ criminal' result, then we know who to kill a round after. Also, DonC's reaction to a lucky 'guily/ criminal' result I'll be intersting to see. Also, on the subject of Norwegian Nerds buddy comment, we do one of two things. Either kill him now, he may be a Luca, or interogate him to find out who his buddy is. Either way, both have to die at one point or the other, hopefully Nor. Nerd 'll let a name slip. On the topic of the item, well, I still don't have good idea. I'm inspirationless at the moment, sorry.
Omanes 11

05-02-2008 17:10 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 17:22 I don't mind being alone for one night - as I've said, my PM indicates that I'm 90% safe anyhow until somebody sends an attack in my direction. Feel free to head off and nab Drisos. I'm going to PM Seamus with details, but you guys ought to PM him also for the sake of confirmation.Another question is the matter of investigations. I say we go for somebody obscure and useless for the moment, since anything we gather now will have to be given to Don Coleone if he requests it (this will be in exchange for him killing for us by N2). On that note, who would be a good target for our mafia buddies to go after when the time arises?I've also cleared something up with Seamus - the item only has to be left at 100% family based kills, so if I/we merge with innocent groups at any stage they will remain naive.On the topic of the item, does anybody have any further suggestions. If not, I'll go for the ballerina shoe.
Dutch 10

05-02-2008 17:06 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 17:07 ... [ damn pc crash]


Andres 9

05-02-2008 16:50 GMT (UK)
OK, Seamus counted Lt. Pindar's vote, allthough not bolded, as valid, because Pindar is new.So Kommo and I are both director, Kommo for the next day, I am for the day thereafter.
Dutch 8

05-02-2008 16:31 GMT (UK)
But do we really want to cripple the group at all ? I mean, since I can't kill anyone without risking our Don (well technically I can, seemingly) wouldn't it be an idea to use them to kill for us ? (read: for me). I'm going to reply in a positive manner, because I would have done the same were I a townie. You know, the whole trusting unconditionally thingy. Besides, even if one of us were in the group, we could still sit by idlely, hence rendering our group useless and still receiving (maybe) some extra information. I don't mind getting rid of Drisos by the way, so I'm willing to act upon that, if our Don doesn't mind being alone one night. If you do, Omanes, well, my priorities lie with you :)As for Pever and zorg... Well I don't trust both, Zorg's ROUND 1 concernse sound fake to me, and as mentioned in the above, I'm more inclined to be receptive towards group forming. If pever does wish to form a mafia group, then we can do two things. Kill him and be done with it, or perhaps make him see the benefit of joining our 'House'
Andres 7

05-02-2008 15:32 GMT (UK)
13 votes for me, 13 for Kommo, but one of the Kommo votes wasn't bolded, so it doesn't count.Helpfull as I am, I informed Seamus of this ;)So, me and Dutch will take care of Drisos tonight?
Omanes 6

05-02-2008 12:33 GMT (UK)
I'm with Andres - it seems that, for now, it's the best plan.pevergreen has invited me into a townie group. In all honesty I'm not sure how to respond, or if to respond at all. I think I will probably argue a little while about his true intentions, and then choose to work along side him with the supposed aim of town assistance. According to my PM I can protect or kill like a normal townie, so no problems should occur there.
Andres 5

05-02-2008 10:59 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 11:00 Ok, at first I refused to work with them, now Moros has "convinced" me.Drisos, Dutch_guy, TS, Moros and myself are in the "townie group". My pm says that my partcipation at a townies protection group won't have any influence. I guess the same goes for Dutch.Dutch can tell them he doesn't trust them, or he can ignore the pm's until the next day phase.I suggest me and Dutch kill Drisos tonight. It's a very likely target for mafia + it cripples the group of TS.The next day, Dutch can just refuse to work with the TS group and thus it will become useless, since it only has three members left: me, Moros and TS.If somebody has questions as to why the protection failed, we can blame it on the fact that one of the protection squad got killed.We have the advantage that alot of people don't seem to like TS's spamming style, so if Moros, TS or Drisos go public with this, then TS has to be accused of being the mole.
Omanes 4

05-02-2008 07:46 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 08:00 TS always was exceptionally open - he PMed me straight away in Kung Fu mafia having no idea of my status or role.The sacrificial tactic probably would be best avoided - in CTDC I the loss of simply one gangster at a critical stage spelt almost doom for one mafia family.Low profile may be a good idea for the early stages, or at least until we find an accompanying Made/Wise Guy for Andres. I would prefer it if Dutch_guy protected me, although according to my PM I can survive once without protection. A second time, I won't be so lucky. It could be possible for you two to act as a team until I am attacked, and then come back to protect me thereafter.I think, however, for now, it may be a good idea for Andres alone to go in TS's group, although maybe resist a little first to try and make him seem a less eager to get in than he really is. Once he's in, we can find full details of their plans, and try and direct them where we want them to go. Dutch_guy could make up some strong excuses (e.g. how do I know you're not the Don e.c.t.) hopefully getting him out of it so he can remain with me. Although it would be possible for him to withdraw after I've had my first attack, it may look a little strange. The only problem is whether we have to drop our marker at every kill we perform or have a part in. If this is the case, then using townies in this way could be risky - if they realise the mafia symbol was associated with their kill, they know somebody in the group isn't quite what they seem. This brings the risk of having the FoS pointed in the mole's direction.As for getting them over to our side, well, that may be difficult. If we detect any wise guys in the group, we could try it on with them, but it may be a very risky move - us probably being the only ones knowing their status.Also, I'm told that Don Corelone owes us a kill, and we owe him information in exchange by the 2nd Night Phase. I say we do some fairly useless investigative work up to then, hopefully providing them with fairly minimal stuff to go on.
Andres 3

04-02-2008 22:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Don Stracci and Luca Stracci.We do have one problem though: I can't kill by myself. We need at least one and preferably three Wiseguys to help us out. The problem is, how to find them without getting detected?One possibility is "sacrificing" me. I can send pm's to everybody and ask them to contact me if they are wiseguy/gals. Off course, some of them will be trying to get into our group. But nobody has to know you guys. All communication can go through me, it doesn't matter if I'm dead or alive. Besides, I'll probably get investigated and found guilty soon in the game anyway. Another possibility is to keep a low profile, i.e. Dutch protects Omanes and I only do investigations.
Dutch 2

04-02-2008 22:06 GMT (UK)
I think it's best if I protect you, Omanes, for the first couple of round. Let Andres do the actual killing. As for placing a mole in a group, well, that won't be a problem. The following is from a PM received from The Stranger (I summerized it a bit): -----------------------------My friends (Moros, DG, Andres).I ask you to accept my friendship for the duration of this game, that we may protect the town. To make this work, we need to trust eachother unconditionally (ooh, the irony!). Who will fight evil with me ?- TS ----------------------I'd suggest both Andres and myself infiltrate this group. Perhaps with the goal to convert them to our cause, if it seems they're wiling. As for a trademark...A pink ballerina shoe does sound a little unnatural, and doesn't sound like the sort of thing a respected and feared mafia family should be using. However, I'm quite clueless on what we should be using to mark our kills. Need to think about that one.
Omanes 1

04-02-2008 21:26 GMT (UK)
Edited by author 05-02-2008 07:17 General organisation:Don - Omanes AlexandrapolitesLuca - Dutch_guyMade - AndresWe might as well begin organising kills and such like for the moment. Any ideas, strategies or plans you guys can come up with - I'm a little clueless for now? At this stage random murders/investigations by Andres probably are the best plan, but we ought to adapt to any evidence which appears in the thread at a later stage.Does anybody have any ideas on infiltrating townie groups either - although it may be risky, I would like to deploy a mole in at least one of these groups, hopefully trying to manipulate them into following the family's will. Last time many of these groups, under Redleg and Louis, also managed to unite against the mafia, and were key in the townie victory. Preventing creation of a similar unity this time round may be a good idea. Removal of any innocents which may try to develop this unity later on could also be a wise plan.Recruitment is also a key issue - do we sit back and hope for the best, or do we go out of our way to find the wise guys and drag them into our team? The former will be the easiest approach yet very risky should any of the family end up murdered, while the latter could be dangerous if we end up asking the wrong people. We may have to set up a cover for recruitment purposes - possibly a trusted member we consider honest who isn't playing. Also Seamus has asked us to choose an item to mark each one of our kills with. I was considering a pink ballerina shoe, but I thought that might be a little unnatural and out of character. Any ideas from you guys?

I am not going to respond to every allegation that has been thrown my way. Pointless, most have come from self-declared mafiosi and their accomplishes anyway.

Here’s the deal, quick and simple:

A wiseguy starts out neutral. He can work towards a town or a mafia victory. Before this is over, we will have seen wiseguys betraying the town And wiseguys betraying the mafia.

Can somebody please tell me why betraying the mafia is considered scummy, and betraying the town unscummy? What, I ask, is the point of having wiseguys in the first place if they can only work towards a career in mafia? Were that so, every last wiseguy should be lynched immediately!
What the town needs to do, is not question and threaten with immediate death wiseguys who deliver mafia, but wiseguys who do not.

Remember, people who show up ‘criminal’ have a roughly fifty percent chance of being mafia in the first place.

Here’s a thought for the town – what have all these players claiming ‘pro-town’ wiseguy to show for their efforts? Why, my dear townies, is it so incredibly suspicious of a wiseguy to betray a family that you should lynch him immediately? At the behest, no less, of people who openly declare themselves Mafiosi?
And what is so unsuspicious about all those wiseguys who have absolutely nothing, zero, to show for their efforts? Excuse me – you think they are making all these kills on ‘suspects’ to save the town? This early in the game?

I would say, go forth and question all the other wiseguys, pressure them, lynch them until they can prove to you that they are working for the town. Then move on to the wiseguys who haven chosen a town career.

Have all the townies left the game? Given up paying attention? Are you all so overwhelmed by it all, to realise the simple game principle that wiseguys choose their role: town or mafia. And that it is precisely the non-mafia betraying wiseguys that you should hang?

Think about it.

HEllo guys,

I am currently having problems with my pc, as it entered in strike and wont recognize my HD.

I will be able to be here, but Im not sure how many time nor i will have time to read everything.

Sorry.

Caius.

I must say that there are truths in what Louis writes now, more than some of you may think...or want us to think...
Haven't read all of it yet but I found at least one hint that Louis didn't make this up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Hello Glenn,

I have been the one single player with the most faith in you and JimBob. I have tried to save you from lynching at every opportunity. I have given it my best to organise protection groups, even when few players would believe in your innocence.

I shall even name you the people who killed you. You and everybody else read it here for the first time: Don Corleone.

That you and JimBob, and, no doubt, soon the third, are now under the spell of this same Don Corleone family is bitter and painful.

---

Ahem. Let's not forget that you are personally responsible for Glenn's death. You were organizing his protection group and caused a great deal of confusion do to making changes in the order three times within 90 minutes of the deadline. You then intentionally did not submit orders for yourself to protect Glenn, resulting in the failure of the protection group due to inadequate numbers. Then, when asked about it, you lied about submitting your orders.

Yep, you've been a great friend to Glenn. Right up to the point where you intentionally got him killed, then tried to cover it up by pinning it on Husar.

Wow, That's gonna be a lot of reading. Or could someone post/pm me a good summary?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I am not going to respond to every allegation that has been thrown my way. Pointless, most have come from self-declared mafiosi and their accomplishes anyway.

Here’s the deal, quick and simple:

A wiseguy starts out neutral. He can work towards a town or a mafia victory. Before this is over, we will have seen wiseguys betraying the town And wiseguys betraying the mafia.

Can somebody please tell me why betraying the mafia is considered scummy, and betraying the town unscummy? What, I ask, is the point of having wiseguys in the first place if they can only work towards a career in mafia? Were that so, every last wiseguy should be lynched immediately!
What the town needs to do, is not question and threaten with immediate death wiseguys who deliver mafia, but wiseguys who do not.

Remember, people who show up ‘criminal’ have a roughly fifty percent chance of being mafia in the first place.

Here’s a thought for the town – what have all these players claiming ‘pro-town’ wiseguy to show for their efforts? Why, my dear townies, is it so incredibly suspicious of a wiseguy to betray a family that you should lynch him immediately? At the behest, no less, of people who openly declare themselves Mafiosi?
And what is so unsuspicious about all those wiseguys who have absolutely nothing, zero, to show for their efforts? Excuse me – you think they are making all these kills on ‘suspects’ to save the town? This early in the game?

I would say, go forth and question all the other wiseguys, pressure them, lynch them until they can prove to you that they are working for the town. Then move on to the wiseguys who haven chosen a town career.

Have all the townies left the game? Given up paying attention? Are you all so overwhelmed by it all, to realise the simple game principle that wiseguys choose their role: town or mafia. And that it is precisely the non-mafia betraying wiseguys that you should hang?

Think about it.

---

Eh, you conveniently forget to mention one little detail: your original plan was to let me, a Made gangster, live and to get an innocent (yep, you know damn well that our "second" Wiseguy wasn't Tran, not to mention the other subtle changes you made in our Stracci hideout quicktopic you quoted.) lynched instead of a mafioso.

Not exactly the behavior of a Wiseguy determined to go pro-town, hmmm?

Or did you let me live just for fun? Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Wiseguy Louis wanted a puppet Made Gangster, namely me. You don't have to believe me, just reread the thread and the primary reveal of the Stracci family by Louis. Did he name Andres as a Made Gangster? Nope, he said it was Tran. Now he says it is me. Sasaki said Louis is a Stracci Made Gangster. ~:confused:

I'm getting very confused. Who is the Stracci Made Gangster ?

a) Andres,
b) Tran,
c) Louis,
d) Louis and me,
e) Britney Spears

Oh, and no need to make this reflection either: why did it take Louis so long to just copy paste the information he just posted? Did he want to treat the material very carefully, to make sure no subtle changes or modifications are made to the original?

I'm just an evil mafioso telling nothing but lies. Everything I say are lies, idiocy and should be ignored :grin:

I'll enjoy seeing you all die at the hands of Louis :evil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

Ahem. Let's not forget that you are personally responsible for Glenn's death. You were organizing his protection group and caused a great deal of confusion do to making changes in the order three times within 90 minutes of the deadline. You then intentionally did not submit orders for yourself to protect Glenn, resulting in the failure of the protection group due to inadequate numbers. Then, when asked about it, you lied about submitting your orders.

Yep, you've been a great friend to Glenn. Right up to the point where you intentionally got him killed, then tried to cover it up by pinning it on Husar.

---

I never pinned anything on Husar. I have never accused any of you three of deliberatly not sending in the orders.

An important part from your quote is 'You were organizing his protection group'. Yes, exactly.

Maybe you other three could simply have send in the orders for Seamus that I send you all, eh? Then Glenn would still be alive. There were four of us for a reason. The three of you, plus me.

I organised a protection group for Glenn. It was I who contacted the protectors. If I wanted Glenn murdered, I would simply NOT have organised a protection for him. :idea2:

Glenn had nowhere to go. I was one of the few who believed him. The plan was, of course, that there would still be three defenders on Glenn. That’s right, three. To keep him alive. There is no way that my actions can be explained as an attempt to kill Glenn.

An attempt at an alibi then? Nope. I knew Glenn would be attacked. There had ben attacks on him every night. Sasaki and GH’s balloon mafia had attacked Glenn for every night already. I expected an attack again. And I also know full well that Seamus always writes the amount of defenders in the write-up. I knew there would be trouble about unsend PM’s. So, there was no easy, unsuspicious alibi to be had from protecting Glenn. On the contrary. Trouble was always going to happen over it.

So, if I wanted either a good alibi, or the death of Glenn, then there is absolutely no way that I would have organised it the way I did. Both are obvious. So obvious, in fact, that I had not felt the need to defend it before. However, since some people are still connecting it with the Stracchi outing I think I should.

Oh, and why did I not simply organise a protection group of three defenders? Why did I have to lie I was in? Well, you tried organising a protection group for Glenn back then, eh? Half the town didn’t believe his role, and of the other half, half had been, shall we say, been estranged by his posting style. I asked Husar to join the protection group. For a start, Husar had voted to lynch Glenn the day. Next to that, his reply was typical of what I had to deal with:
Husar:
Glenn?
Sorry, but why? He's an annoying git and [anonymous] deserves the protection as well afaik.

What should I have said to Husar? I took him of another protection group to switch him to protecting Glenn. He was not happy. He had voted to have Glenn lynched. How could I have had him switched from protecting another townie to Glenn if I myself was not even going to (pretend) I was in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Wiseguy Louis wanted a puppet Made Gangster, namely me.

---

I did indeed.:beam:

I already had named more mobsters than the town could possibly hang. Why betray you already? Why let your made investigation powers go to waste prematurely? :2thumbsup:

I assure you there is no lie in the fact that you were a Made when you betrayed us Louis. Seamus offered it to me, I accepted, and I then received nothing which indicated otherwise.

Despite the events surrounding this, as you can see in Louis' copy and paste of our private area, I was a secretive as possible and kept the identities of as many individuals as I could hidden from all wise guys.

Tran (Wise Guy) knew of Andres (Made) and Louis (Wise Guy later Made)
Louis (while a Wise Guy) knew of Andres (Made) and later Tran (Wise Guy)

I never revealed neither Dutch_guy nor myself to any wise guys at any stage. I planned to leave that till they became full Mades and henceforth ought to be trusted not to betray us. Before then, they could completely change their path.

Following this plan, I revealed everything to Louis after I knew that Seamus has received the PM and had had a long enough time (about six hours) to process it. I presumed he had mentioned the option of promotion to Louis first. I sincerely tell you that would never have told any normal wise guy the identity of any mafia core (Don/Luca) member and I wouldn't have told Louis should I have not been totally sure that the promotion had succeeded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites

I assure you there is no lie in the fact that you were a Made when you betrayed us Louis. Seamus offered it to me, I accepted, and I then recieved nothing which indicated otherwise.

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:yes:

He backstabbed his own family :no:

The thing is, he's the only one who doesn't realise it :wall:

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Originally Posted by Luigi VI di Fatlington

I already had named more mobsters than the town could possibly hang. Why betray you already? Why let your made investigation powers go to waste prematurely?

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Sure. I would have used those powers and would have given you the genuine results every night, as the nice little pet dog I would have been :coffeenews:

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

An attempt at an alibi then? Nope. I knew Glenn would be attacked. There had ben attacks on him every night. Sasaki and GH’s balloon mafia had attacked Glenn for every night already. I expected an attack again. And I also know full well that Seamus always writes the amount of defenders in the write-up. I knew there would be trouble about unsend PM’s. So, there was no easy, unsuspicious alibi to be had from protecting Glenn. On the contrary. Trouble was always going to happen over it.

. . .

Oh, and why did I not simply organise a protection group of three defenders? Why did I have to lie I was in? Well, you tried organising a protection group for Glenn back then, eh? Half the town didn’t believe his role, and of the other half, half had been, shall we say, been estranged by his posting style. I asked Husar to join the protection group. For a start, Husar had voted to lynch Glenn the day.

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I specifically told you that I also did not trust Glenn and was going to vote for his lynching the next day. So, you organized a protection group of 4 people, two of whom specifically informed you that they did not like or trust Glenn. Yet, you obviously trusted all three of us to submit our orders properly, because you didn't even feel the need to show up yourself. I do not have to point out the irony of the fact that only Husar and I, the two people who said we were going to lynch Glenn, actually sent in our orders to protect him.

As for not trying to cover it up, here are all my PMs with you after the failed protection...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Hello,


Did you send this in? In time?

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

This is the new, and definitive order for Seamus:

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Protect Glenn:

Husar, Leet Eriksson, TinCow, louis.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

You know I did, I CCed you on it.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Hello,


Did you send this in? In time?

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

This is the new, and definitive order for Seamus:

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Protect Glenn:

Husar, Leet Eriksson, TinCow, louis.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Here you go. As I said in the thread, the problem could well be the confusion regarding the two changes to the orders.

Did you get any response from Husar and Leet Eriksson?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Protect Glenn = failure

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Here you go. As I said in the thread, the problem could well be the confusion regarding the two changes to the orders.

Did you get any response from Husar and Leet Eriksson?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Protect Glenn = failure

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Husar claims to have send it in correctly.

Haven't heard anything from Leet.

Your Seamus' PM is the same as mine.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Then Husar must be lying or he made some error he isn't aware of. I have no way of knowing which it is. Do you want this information publicly disclosed or kept private?

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Here you go. As I said in the thread, the problem could well be the confusion regarding the two changes to the orders.

Did you get any response from Husar and Leet Eriksson?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Protect Glenn = failure

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Husar claims to have send it in correctly.

Haven't heard anything from Leet.

Your Seamus' PM is the same as mine.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Then Husar must be lying or he made some error he isn't aware of. I have no way of knowing which it is. Do you want this information publicly disclosed or kept private?

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Here you go. As I said in the thread, the problem could well be the confusion regarding the two changes to the orders.

Did you get any response from Husar and Leet Eriksson?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Protect Glenn = failure

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Husar claims to have send it in correctly.

Haven't heard anything from Leet.

Your Seamus' PM is the same as mine.

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Let's keep it quiet for now, I think?

If we have reason to be suspicious, then maybe we can investigate that person(s) first. I do not like to easily accuse people in public. However much it sucks, the only thing we know as of yet is that we do not know what happened last night.

I do not know what to make of it yet. I really don't. These things are more often than not the result of betrayal instead of confusion amongst members. However, the period before the deadline was particularly hectic. I certainly would not exclude betrayal.

I don't know TinCow. I'm too confused over what happened still, and about to go to bed. I'll think it all over tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I will keep it quiet for now.

What is your opinion of Sasaki Kojiro? He has told me that he has contacts with another protection group that we could work with. If you trust him, we could start cooperating with them.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Then Husar must be lying or he made some error he isn't aware of. I have no way of knowing which it is. Do you want this information publicly disclosed or kept private?

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Here you go. As I said in the thread, the problem could well be the confusion regarding the two changes to the orders.

Did you get any response from Husar and Leet Eriksson?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Protect Glenn = failure

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Husar claims to have send it in correctly.

Haven't heard anything from Leet.

Your Seamus' PM is the same as mine.

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Let's keep it quiet for now, I think?

If we have reason to be suspicious, then maybe we can investigate that person(s) first. I do not like to easily accuse people in public. However much it sucks, the only thing we know as of yet is that we do not know what happened last night.

I do not know what to make of it yet. I really don't. These things are more often than not the result of betrayal instead of confusion amongst members. However, the period before the deadline was particularly hectic. I certainly would not exclude betrayal.

I don't know TinCow. I'm too confused over what happened still, and about to go to bed. I'll think it all over tomorrow.

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At that point, I thought about it more, consulted two people I trusted, and decided this information was too important to keep secret. I posted it, as we all know. You then admitted that it was you who failed to submit your orders. If you are so innocent, why did you lie about submitting your orders?

Louis, there is one inescapable fact about you that you really need to realize. You are completely untrustworthy. No one has any reason to trust you, no matter how much good information you supply. You have intentionally lied to the pro-townies (Husar and I). You have intentionally lied to (and betrayed) the mafia (Stracchi Family). No one will ever trust you again, no matter what you do. It's pretty obvious that you're done in this game, it's just a question of whether you will die by lynching, mafia hit, or vig group hit.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Louis, there is one inescapable fact about you that you really need to realize. You are completely untrustworthy. No one has any reason to trust you, no matter how much good information you supply. You have intentionally lied to the pro-townies (Husar and I). You have intentionally lied to (and betrayed) the mafia (Stracchi Family). No one will ever trust you again, no matter what you do. It's pretty obvious that you're done in this game, it's just a question of whether you will die by lynching, mafia hit, or vig group hit.

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Lynch him. For a small fee, I'm willing to vote him :bow:

I believe that Louis VI is hopelessly untrustworthy and should die soon, one way or another. Even if he is truly pro-town, we cannot trust him. Even if we could trust him, he will never be of any more use to the town because no Mafia will ever trust him. He will never produce anything worthwhile beyond what he has gotten out of the Stracchi. Given this situation, and the fact that he cannot be trusted by anyone and is rumored to be a Made, he cannot be allowed to live.

However, that does not mean we should ignore the evidence he has provided us. As untrustworthy as he is, his Stracchi evidence does look very good and has been proven. There are some interesting things in there that we should not ignore. Such as:

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Sadly we can't suggest that Dons can survive a single attempt on their life alone - it's not mentioned in the rules and only I and other Dons have knowledge of it.

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My role pm says I can still investigate one person if I'm involved in a murder.

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Don Corelone's mafia will be killing Beefy187.

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It seems that Tiberius of the Drake is in the Corleone family

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Tran contacted me. He wants to work together with me, it doesn't matter if I'm pro-town or mafia he says. He claims to be a Wiseguy, which is a flexible role...

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Apparantly Andres was killed by Don Barzini

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Warmaster Horus = criminal

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WH last visited the .Org on the 5th of February, six days ago. The mafia(s) seem a less active than I expected - perhaps he's a Made, holding a family's progress back?[

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I've chose to promote Louis to Made status. Once I get confirmation from Seamus I'll let him enter this secret area - once he's in, he can't turn back.

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Sigurd was really pressing for my lynch and unvoted me for a crappy reason.Is it possible that Sigurd is Don Barzini? They want me dead.

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must admit that I have no doubt that he is a Don of sorts.

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If he does what is told, we can let him work with Tran (who is still avoiding suspicion) afterwards.

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Louis, thank you for killing the Stracchis and supplying the above. Now please die quietly, it's for the good of the town.

I have my pc back. Dont expect me to be active though, I have to backup some photos.