A Problem of Shrinkage

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

I've tried, reading through the 5 pages of this thread, to generate interest in the outcome of the Republican Party.

But I've failed. I just don't care (enough) to have an opinion or a prediction about their resurrection or demise. "But, Kukri, why say anything then?", you ask.

Because:


Lemur was correct there, in my opinion. Someone (a significantly large minority) needs to play the loyal opposition, to keep the current majority honest (or as honest as a political body can be).

They had their opportunity: in what everyone perceived as an emergency, we gave them the white house and both parts of congress - a move unprecedented in recent history, because we prefer a balance, despite "gridlock" - to see us through that emergency. They stumbled through that time, and a 9-11 attack didn't recur. Fine. But they went too far, piling authority onto the Executive to the point where the only thing stopping GWB being coronated was the Constitutional provision of presidential term-limits. I half-expected there to be a move in 2006 to suspend that provision "temporarily" during the by then never-ending "emergency".

But it didn't happen. Instead, we took away his congressional majority. I remember his face the day after that election. He was stunned. Surprised. One more thing he "never saw coming".

Lesson for future Presidents: America will give you whatever you need to solve an emergency, but you only get about 5 years to resolve that emergency, no longer. After that, if unresolved, we're gonna start taking away some of those tools, thinking you can't handle the job.

I think Pres. Obama gets that, hence his push to get as much done as possible as soon as possible, since we've given him the same tools GW got given. He shouldn't count on being given a congressional majority forever. His second term, if he gets one, will be more difficult than his first.

I just don't know if his opposition will be from the almost-extinct Republican Party, a wing of his own party, or some up-and-coming new group. I sense that many americans are beyond disappointment with the folks in the parties, and are more at the sick-and-tired stage. That's good for the country, I think, but not so hot for any incumbents, of either party.

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New York & California are prime examples of one party dominated government entities that have and continue to spend way above their means, and then try to tax themselves back to prosperity. Ain't gonna work and the only reason both have not been bankrupted yet is the one-shot federal largess both received this year. We need an effective opposition party, I don't care who or what they call themselves, that can offer more than just rhetoric to this massive debt without even including this proposed healthcare boondoggle put forth by the Democrats.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

I don't dislike Obama's policy toward Iran - it is just a new way to acheive a collapse of the theocracy without war which is a shared goal, lets try it.

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As usual you and I find common ground in international concerns, in the larger picture so to speak. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

As usual you and I find common ground in international concerns, in the larger picture so to speak. :bow:

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Weird! hehe:yes:

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

When the GOP dinosaurs die out, guys like Ryan and Paul will have a bigger voice in our party and attract younger and brighter voters - all while the geriatric democrats defend their failed policies that sounded progressive 20 years prior, scaring off the youth.

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A long, detailed essay that correlates with what you're saying, TuffStuff:

We know what happens when movements or parties continue to stagger forward after running out of ideas: They become zombies. Zombie parties are a recurrent feature of electoral democracies. Unable to articulate any coherent or workable governing philosophy, they mindlessly jab at cultural hot buttons, mechanically repeat hardwired tropes ("cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes"), nurse tribal resentments, ostracize independent thinkers. Above all, they feel positively proud of their doggedness. You can’t talk them out of it. Think of the Republicans in the FDR years, the Democrats in the Reagan years, the British Labour Party in the Thatcher period, and the British Conservative Party in the Blair period. Think of Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party for most of the past half-century, or France’s Socialists today. To get a new brain, zombie parties usually need to spend years out of power or wait until a new generation rises to leadership.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

A long, detailed essay that correlates with what you're saying, TuffStuff:

We know what happens when movements or parties continue to stagger forward after running out of ideas: They become zombies. Zombie parties are a recurrent feature of electoral democracies. Unable to articulate any coherent or workable governing philosophy, they mindlessly jab at cultural hot buttons, mechanically repeat hardwired tropes ("cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes"), nurse tribal resentments, ostracize independent thinkers. Above all, they feel positively proud of their doggedness. You can’t talk them out of it. Think of the Republicans in the FDR years, the Democrats in the Reagan years, the British Labour Party in the Thatcher period, and the British Conservative Party in the Blair period. Think of Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party for most of the past half-century, or France’s Socialists today. To get a new brain, zombie parties usually need to spend years out of power or wait until a new generation rises to leadership.

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Right. That's what tends to happen over time. An investment of time and ideas into the GOP is an investment in the future even though it might be an embarrassment in the present. Our consolation is that no matter the look and smell of a fish now, it all starts to stink over time, so Democrats shouldn't get too used to it. The smart democrats who arn't die hards would be well served to join the GOP because there is more room for you - the Dems are going to become top-heavy and static over the next few years. You like Ron Paul? Do you think that voice can be amplified with the Democrats? Come on over and make the GOP what it will be, don't be afraid of being "out of step with progress". You know it's relative. Get ahead of the curve.

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the Republicans in the FDR years

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Yeah, those guys totally had it wrong. :rolleyes:

I really hope the Republicans get their act together. If the Democrats really start to mess things up on a Bushian level, I really need an alternative party to vote for. The threat of losing power is the only way to keep those in power even SLIGHTLY honest.

They must, absolutely must, flush Rush. Or at least not follow his terrible, terrible lead.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I really hope the Republicans get their act together. If the Democrats really start to mess things up on a Bushian level, I really need an alternative party to vote for. The threat of losing power is the only way to keep those in power even SLIGHTLY honest.

They must, absolutely must, flush Rush. Or at least not follow his terrible, terrible lead.

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It may be a surprise, but they don't control him. I don't know how much they're following his lead, but they shouldn't.

CR

I'd be interested to know which Republican leaders don't have to apologize for saying a critical word about him or his politics.

Most of them? As far as I know only Steele has apologized in a way.

What worries me more is South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford turning out to be in Argentina for a week instead of hiking in the Appalachians. :sweatdrop:

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Most of them? As far as I know only Steele has apologized in a way.

What worries me more is South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford turning out to be in Argentina for a week instead of hiking in the Appalachians. :sweatdrop:

CR

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Yeah, that was really strange. I get that its nice to have a vacation every now and then, but telling the wife might have been a good idea.

Oh wait, he was having an affair:

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Gov. Mark Sanford admitted today that his secret trip to Argentina over Father's Day weekend was to visit a woman he is having an affair with.

Mark Sanford left the Governor's Mansion in this black State Law Enforcement Division Suburban assigned to his security detail. The Suburban remained parked Wednesday morning at Columbia Metropolitan Airport.

"I have developed a relationship with what started as a dear dear friend from Argentina. It began very innocently as I expect many of these things do, just casual email back and forth," Sanford said. "But here recently this last year developed into something much more."

Asked if Sanford was separated from his wife, he said "I don't know how you want to define that. I"m here and she's there. I guess in a formal sense we are not."

Sanford said his wife has known about the affair and they have been working through it for the past five months. "What I did was wrong, period. End of story," Sanford said.

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****.

Video.

**** it!

Gah.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Most of them? As far as I know only Steele has apologized in a way.

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I'll have to defer to someone who has been keeping track, but... I'm pretty sure there's been a bunch more than that. This is a somewhat humorous (but a bit too mocking for my taste) page I found, but hey! Look! It's that SC governor again... and a Georgia Congressman, in addition to Steele.

I haven't been keeping track, but how many concurrent scandals are happening right now involving Republican politicians? It feels like they are actually kicking themselves when they are down. And if we can ignore the media sensationalism, I've also been monitoring the content coming from them. No real budget proposal, no real health care reform proposal. If they have the better ideas, where are they hiding them, and who told them to do so?

This is an excellent opportunity, I think, to clean house and get rid of a lot of the leadership. The party is already down, there's no real chance of winning back Congress in the next election... but perhaps those Republican seats that will always be Republican seats need to be seriously challenged in the coming election by other Republicans who can provide a more serious challenge to the Democrats

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I'll have to defer to someone who has been keeping track, but... I'm pretty sure there's been a bunch more than that. This is a somewhat humorous (but a bit too mocking for my taste) page I found, but hey! Look! It's that SC governor again... and a Georgia Congressman, in addition to Steele.

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So two republicans apologized and one more (who's no longer a leader) said he wasn't directly calling Rush an idiot.

Excuse me while I scoff at your suggestion, which you admitted was based on no research, that all republican leaders are kowtowing to Rush.
*scoffs*

Rush has nothing to do with the real problems the GOP has.

CR

These :daisy:. Sanford has always been full of it. If Romney pulls any of this crap i'm voting for Hitler.

Sanford has worked very hard to boost his image as the quite and honest type. Too bad he has a big mouth and cheats on his wife. Hack.

Everytime a guy in the GOP cheats he loses votes for the party, even more than when a democrat does it. When will these people learn and realize that sex isn't important? Do your job and get a video game.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

So two republicans apologized and one more (who's no longer a leader) said he wasn't directly calling Rush an idiot.

Excuse me while I scoff at your suggestion, which you admitted was based on no research, that all republican leaders are kowtowing to Rush.
*scoffs*

Rush has nothing to do with the real problems the GOP has.

CR

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I apologize CR. You've put me in my place.

Yup. What scum - cheating on their wives. And Sanford - doing it on Father's day. :wall:

He deserves ruin.

At this rate, Romney may be the only one left for the GOP in 2012. Wouldn't be bad. Though Obama's likely to get a second term anyway, so we may want to sacrifice someone else.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Yup. What scum - cheating on their wives. And Sanford - doing it on Father's day. :wall:

He deserves ruin.

At this rate, Romney may be the only one left for the GOP in 2012. Wouldn't be bad. Though Obama's likely to get a second term anyway, so we may want to sacrifice someone else.

CR

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No - Run Romney. He'll be too old to run after that and these past 8 years are his window. If he doesn't run next, he'll never run again I think. We need to put a stark alternative up agaisnt Obama, particularly if his policies fall flat or he seems extreme at the end of his 4 years. We hardly have a shot in hell - it would be a waste to blow a young career.

The GOP sacrifices old bulls, Democrats sacrifice lambs.

*Edit - I want Sanford to resign (althought it isn't my state). I simply don't trust people who betray their immediate families. How could anyone trust someone to do right by them whose own wife couldn't?

Romney does look like a decent candidate. I probably wouldn't vote for him but I'd like to think the debate would be civil.

Sanford should be impeached and removed from the governorship of SC. He left the state with no executive leadership and no way to contact him in case of a state emergency for 5 days. His judgement and lackadasical approach to responsibilty & duty clearly indicate he's not fit to govern. gee, you think this will hurt my chances to get the republican nomination for president? He'll probably get applauded like Senator Ensign for fessing up. Another standup guy.

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Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito

Sanford should be impeached and removed from the governorship of SC. He left the state with no executive leadership and no way to contact him in case of a state emergency for 5 days. His judgement and lackadasical approach to responsibilty & duty clearly indicate he's not fit to govern. gee, you think this will hurt my chances to get the republican nomination for president? He'll probably get applauded like Senator Ensign for fessing up. Another standup guy.

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He and ensign are written off. Human Garbage. If we can't find a way to get them out of office for something illegal we should all vote against them FOR anyone else.

What happens in Buenos Aires stays in Buenos Aires... sometimes, doh

:embarassed::laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito

Sanford should be impeached and removed from the governorship of SC. He left the state with no executive leadership and no way to contact him in case of a state emergency for 5 days. His judgement and lackadasical approach to responsibilty & duty clearly indicate he's not fit to govern.

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Ditto that. :yes:
Had it just been the affair, I'd say let the voters decide- an affair is a serious character issue, imo, but I'd be content to let it play out in the campaign. But when you add to that the string of lies surrounding it and his dereliction of duty while off on his fling.... it's time for him to pack it in.

An Email between Sanford and his lover (from December... for some reason only published now)... Worth reading for the laughs:

You have a particular grace and calm that I adore. You have a level of sophistication that so fitting with your beauty. I could digress and say that you have the ability to give magnificent gentle kisses, or that I love your tan lines or that I love the curve of your hips, the erotic beauty of you holding yourself (or two magnificent parts of yourself) in the faded glow of the night’s light - but hey, that would be going into sexual details ...

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Ditto that. :yes:
Had it just been the affair, I'd say let the voters decide- an affair is a serious character issue, imo, but I'd be content to let it play out in the campaign. But when you add to that the string of lies surrounding it and his dereliction of duty while off on his fling.... it's time for him to pack it in.

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I usually don't care when pollie's cheat, cuz it seems so rampant. But this one reeks with irresponsibility, dereliction of duty, and maybe international entanglement consequences.

Q: What if the "girlfriend" was Cristina FERNANDEZ DE KIRCHNER, the current President of Argentina?

https://jimcee.homestead.com/xinsrc_...4784381248.jpg

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Originally Posted by CountArach

An Email between Sanford and his lover (from December... for some reason only published now)... Worth reading for the laughs:

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At least it was a woman. :sweatdrop:

Yup, he's not fit to govern. Impeachment sounds right.

CR

LOL

I don't need to know the details, all I need to know is that he wasn't doing his job and he lied about why. The steamy emails, while I am sure are very entertaining, don't concern me too much.

The question on my mind - is she hot?

A new favorability poll about "Leading Republicans".

Interestingly, Palin has both the highest favorable and the highest unfavorable ratings of any. :shrug:

The Republicans and Palin deserve each other.