Britannia

Concerning cavalry-heavy AI armies: The only ones I've ever really seen were, strange to say, Macedonians. Full stacks of Light Lancers and Companions. The "horse archer factions" rely on their few kinds of infantry a lot. I've seen Pontus and Armenia fielding stack upon stack of Eastern Infantry and whatnot, only occasionally supported by three or four horse archers. Same goes for Parthia. The Scythians seem to love Axemen, but they'll also field a lot of horse archers alright.
The only thing I ever had to worry about with these factions is the super-heavy Cataphracts or Cataphract archers. But these will come in small numbers, so never fear.

Elephants are a similar matter: I've never seen the AI field a lot of them. Fire arrows and swamping with massive numbers work like a charm to set them into panic mode. After that, just keep out of their way if you can. Still, a nuisance, I must admit. Try luring them with light chariots.

To be honest, my beloved rush strategy that I employ with all factions I'm playing whenever possible may make me a bit biased on these topics. I've yet to play a campaign that takes a hundred years...

ive never fought britannia or played them, do they have archers at all? i love using archers so i wouldnt play them if i couldnt use them. also, i dont know why but i cant post a new topic so while im asking about archers, what factions can make them? i know roman factions, greece, egypt and macedon i think. ive never seen macedon use archers but all other factions ive played ive never seen any form of archers and ive played 3 campaigns where i conquered even more than 50 provinces.

briton doesnt have archers, and macedon doesnt either if i remember correctly. scythia does, and i think dacia and thrace do too. gaul do, im pretty sure germans do, egypt does, numidia do, armenia do, pontus do, parthia do.

ahhh ok thank you, now i just have to decide germania or gaul i geuss.

np. but remember, im not sure if germania does, and gauls takes 2 turns to train but is one of the best archers in the game.

Britain, in Vanilla, does have chariot archers. They are standard ranged, need a larg edeployment aream and only have 36 shooters (unless you superload) but their hitting power is in the Cretan clas, so they hit hard -- especially against the lighter armored opponents of the early game. Because they fire from up on chariots, they actually cause less fratricides than a foot archer unit when positioned behind the battle line.

Chariot archers can also be used very much like horse archers. Again, fewer shooters (36 v 54) but they hit at 10 v 7 so the power index is pretty close.

Guys - this may seem like rather a novice question (and is almost certainly the wrong place to ask it), but can someone please explain to me the concept of hit points? I note that British Chariots get 3, Spartans get 2 and Elephants get ridiculous amounts, but how do they actually function? I understand that it makes the unit, in some way, more difficult to kill, but given that my chariots get turned into a nasty paté of sawdust and Shergar if made to fight in a static defensive position, how do hit points function as distinct from attack and defence points? They don't seem to be toughening my brave blue charioteers up at all...

Any advice on this point would be gratefully received.

i think it has to do with the defense of the unit. For example, if a unit has 20 defense and 2 life points, it is the equivalent of 2. I am not sure of this, but it is what i heard on another board. You would probably want a second opinion or someone to verify.

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Originally Posted by Calgacus

Guys - this may seem like rather a novice question (and is almost certainly the wrong place to ask it), but can someone please explain to me the concept of hit points? I note that British Chariots get 3, Spartans get 2 and Elephants get ridiculous amounts, but how do they actually function? I understand that it makes the unit, in some way, more difficult to kill, but given that my chariots get turned into a nasty paté of sawdust and Shergar if made to fight in a static defensive position, how do hit points function as distinct from attack and defence points? They don't seem to be toughening my brave blue charioteers up at all...

Any advice on this point would be gratefully received.

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Advice the first: literally the worst possible thing you can do with chariots is fight while static. As you've seen, they die quickly and horribly. Keep them moving at all times while they're fighting (it can be helpful to pull them out and rest a bit in long battles).

I don't know the precise details of the combat mechanics, but conceptually it seems pretty clear. Defense is a measure of how likely a unit is to avoid a hit, and this depends on facing and type of attack (is the shield in arc; I believe defense skill is ignored and shield is doubled vs. missile attacks; possibly other details like that). Hit points (HP) are how many hits a unit can take before dying. If your generic infantryman gets hit, he drops; Spartans die on the second hit; elephants take a lot of punishment before going down. Chariots are interesting in that they have 3 HP but almost no defense. The gameplay logic of the 3 HP seems to be surviving a volley or two of arrows or javelins on their initial charge. After that, movement plus the "special attack" of knocking people down a lot serves to protect them somewhat. If chariots get bogged down in a mass of enemy troops, they die. Don't let that happen if they're your chariots.

Note also that the reason generals are typically the most powerful units (often by a wide margin) on the battlefield is that they have 2 HP, and the attack and defense are decent at worst, often outstanding.

Thanks for the explanations guys; it's always useful to understand a bit more about the game's mechanisms. I think on the whole I'll just charge through units with chariots, rather than risk getting them bogged down, with my charioteers standing in what are essentially large wooden buckets, being prodded to death by spearmen. I generally only use light chariots anyway, so (unless the battle is going shockingly pear-shaped) they won't be in a melee until they run down routing units at the end.

I really, really like the British light chariots. Though I say it myself, I'm getting quite nifty at using them. Heavy chariots suck - they're only good at running down fleeing men, when the battle's already won anyway. I love it when a gang of feeble peasants rebels against my tyrannical rule and I can send light chariots against them. They're fast, so there's no catching them with anything except cavalry, they fire arrows - on the move, too! - and once the rabble has panicked, you can cut them down from chariot-back with disgusting ease.
Just my penny's worth on the coolest barbarian unit.

In addition to the light chariots, the head hurlers are good because once they run out of heads, thier melee attack is actually quite powerful.:yes:

I need help.
The Briton Faction leader dies, and the capital income turns in very red.What can I do?

First off, don't worry to much about the income numbers on the campaign map. The only ones that really matter are the overall numbers on your end of turn report. If they're positive, you're well enough off.

That said, your FL probably had a goodly number of influence wreaths, which influence public "morale" and productivity. Trying to get governors with several management scrolls AND influence wreathes as governors of your key economic cities will be of help.

It's always tough to get an FL-level wreathe total replaced.

I agree with what Seamus Fermanagh says, but I would like to add some.

Londinium(I assume you talk about Londinium when you say the capital and you play as Brittania), I have noticed, likes to stay a very shady red. My advice- concerning any capital- is to keep a modest garrison in it. Not that "two peasant as garrison" trick, but soldiers, such as 3 warbands, or 2 or 3 swordsmen. i would also suggest a missile troop as well as cavalry not only to deal with those pesky rebels, but to maintain a very strong center.


Another would be to build economic buildings -if it does not border with an enemy faction- at the beginning of the game, because capitals tend to have good military builings at the beginning. So I suggest in this order:


1. Roads
2. Port (if available)
3/4. Farms depending on Fertility*
4/3. A Trader or equivalent*
5. Barracks
6. A Temple of ? depends on faction
7/8. Missile**
8.7. Cavalry**


*Switch these if the Fertility of the land is good.
** Doesn't Really Matter which one first. Of course if one is present, you would build the other.


Hope that helps, and it really applies to any faction. It is best if you try to combine these with the tip that Seamus Fermanagh gave you.

Best of luck with your campaign.

Britons are the only barbarian faction who can build temple of trade (Brigantia IIRC)

However, to trade, you'll need trading partners, in the case of Britons, that means getting trade rights with either Gaul or Germany.

In a campaign way back (I was still playing 1.0 at the time), I sold Belgica to Gaul. and got trade right with both neighbours.

Without any continental provinces, I was pretty sure they wouldn't wage war on me soon and that they'll stay my trading partners as long as they kept fighting.

With the money, I developped the island and sent an army to conquer Ireland.
Then, I turtled a bit, built a fleet and a decent army and sent it to take over the spanish peninsula, beginning with Asturica.

Once Spain is yours, you'll have mines, friendly barbarian settlements which are easy to defend thanks to the mountains and... access to the Mediterranean.

That is a very interesting strategy, I might have to try that.

thx

Just make sure you sent a spy in the peninsula beforehand so as to know what you'll meet there (and possibly a diplomat).
And once you sent your army down there, tear down any temple of andrasta (spelling?) you had in the british isles and replace them with temple of health or trade (Brittania and Brigantia, I never know which one is which); health to keep towns under control and trade for the money making cities.
However I remember I sent all my general but one in Spain, and the one who stayed home was barely enough to keep everything under control (usually by trampling ungrateful rebels)

Barbarian factions seems immunized to the vices you get with temples of trade (embezzler, etc...) and although you may not have many management scrolls with your governors, they'll still make some money thanks to the good trader trait.

what's more, with the 1.5 patch, the strategy became easier to implement because sons are appearing where their fathers are (Spain, that is)

Once Spain is yours and if you feel confident, then take Massilia to prevent the Julii from conquering Gaul, let the Gauls develop their settlements and take it from them afterwards.

Now, that's all I can think of.

London to Belgium sea trade is a huge money earner.

Get that going as soon as you can. You dont need to get rid of Begium to do this. You can trade between your own regions.

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Originally Posted by Severous

London to Belgium sea trade is a huge money earner.

Get that going as soon as you can. You dont need to get rid of Begium to do this. You can trade between your own regions.

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And the Ireland - NW Coast link is reasonably lucrative too.

Still having a few issues playing as the Britons, both strategic and tactical, and I wondered if anyone had any thoughts.

Strategically, with 'civilised' factions I have always selected certain cities to upgrade to stone walls, and used those cities to defend routes into my hinterland. These cities pretty much defended themselves, and it was possible to beat off attacks from much larger armies with comparatively small garrisons. Obviously, for a barbarian faction like Britannia, heavy fortification simply isn't possible, and I'd be interested to hear how others have defended their territory. Are enormous barbarian armies at all points the only way? Are there cunning ways to defend a stockaded barbarian town which I simply haven't realised?

Tactically, (and again, I'm probably just lacking in originality) I find that the British are rather hampered by the lack of cavalry. I know that it is possible to hire mercenary cavalry, and in any case wardogs and light chariots can be used to pursue fleeing enemies at the conclusion of the battle, but how have others managed to forestall flanking manoeuvres by enemy cavalry. The British light chariots don't seem to fare terribly well in melee with cavalry, and, if they attempt to skirmish, they get charged down and the horrendous splintering/neighing sound of chariots being given the treatment ensues.

Having said that, units such as head-hurlers can make excellent flanking troops against an enemy already engaged with your main battle-line, and they can replace cavalry in that respect (as long as they don't get carried away and charge into the melee of their own accord). A final point concerns the other British foot-missile unit - the slingers. Has anyone found the slingers useful? Are there ways to maximise their efficiency, rather than just sticking them in front of the battle line, or using them (as with the hurlers) as flanking troops to pepper the flanks/rear of an engaged enemy?

Any advice gratefully received.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calgacus

Still having a few issues playing as the Britons, both strategic and tactical, and I wondered if anyone had any thoughts.

Strategically, with 'civilised' factions I have always selected certain cities to upgrade to stone walls, and used those cities to defend routes into my hinterland. These cities pretty much defended themselves, and it was possible to beat off attacks from much larger armies with comparatively small garrisons. Obviously, for a barbarian faction like Britannia, heavy fortification simply isn't possible, and I'd be interested to hear how others have defended their territory. Are enormous barbarian armies at all points the only way? Are there cunning ways to defend a stockaded barbarian town which I simply haven't realised?

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In earlier versions of the game, you could sally against the besiegers and have them chase you all around the stockade -- kills on the cheap.

Several mods include stone walls for the barbarian factions (a little weaker structurally, but tactically the same).

Without stone walls though, barbarians are reduced to street traps and square fights (and their streets are often too wide for good effect). You end up needing lots of armies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calgacus

Tactically, (and again, I'm probably just lacking in originality) I find that the British are rather hampered by the lack of cavalry. I know that it is possible to hire mercenary cavalry, and in any case wardogs and light chariots can be used to pursue fleeing enemies at the conclusion of the battle, but how have others managed to forestall flanking manoeuvres by enemy cavalry. The British light chariots don't seem to fare terribly well in melee with cavalry, and, if they attempt to skirmish, they get charged down and the horrendous splintering/neighing sound of chariots being given the treatment ensues.

Having said that, units such as head-hurlers can make excellent flanking troops against an enemy already engaged with your main battle-line, and they can replace cavalry in that respect (as long as they don't get carried away and charge into the melee of their own accord). A final point concerns the other British foot-missile unit - the slingers. Has anyone found the slingers useful? Are there ways to maximise their efficiency, rather than just sticking them in front of the battle line, or using them (as with the hurlers) as flanking troops to pepper the flanks/rear of an engaged enemy?

Any advice gratefully received.

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To forestall flanking manuevers, try heavy chariots (not generals). Place them behind the line and back a bit, as an enemy cav moves to flank, slash in with your chariots. The scythes carve up horses pretty well (though the low armor on chariots means you'll take some hits too). Light chariots are a waste for this. I don't recommend heavy chartiots as line breakers -- elephants they are not.

I rarely used slingers as a Brit -- save when I conquered a city with a stone wall or brought one unit along as bait for a tactical trap.

The british are one of the hardest civs in the game starting position is perfect but as the game advances facing cartage and rome won't be easy since they have no cav. or foot archers . Head hurlers are perfect unıt ın my test they beat legionary chord in 1-1 at each wave they kılled 10 -12 legionary.since they are fast legionary could not get close enough to face them but they are completely defenceless against missile fire as the other unique unıts chariots what can you do agaınst archer axullıa and onagers (nothing! because before you get close enough you wıll have lost your 1/3 or of your caharıots and head hurlers)

rome could be defeated early before reforms as ı dıd ın vh and cartage parthıa selucıds and egypt could be avoıded by not crossıng anatolıa or afrıca but at south europe phalanax pıkeman and macedon cavalary are stıll very hard to beat and armored hoplıtes wıth archers and onagers wıll prove hard resıstance ı dıd not faced wıth them yet but as ı playıng greek, brıtısh were very easy to beat especıally sınce they have no long ranged troops ın brıdge battles ı won only losıng 100-150 man agaınst chosens hurlers charıots etc. ıts very crıtıcal to protect your head hurlers the only weapon agaınst phalanax unıts are them so protectıng them before usıng theır weapons ıs key to vıctory

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Originally Posted by WarLord of the East

The british are one of the hardest civs in the game starting position is perfect but as the game advances facing cartage and rome won't be easy since they have no cav. or foot archers . Head hurlers are perfect unıt ın my test they beat legionary chord in 1-1 at each wave they kılled 10 -12 legionary.since they are fast legionary could not get close enough to face them but they are completely defenceless against missile fire as the other unique unıts chariots what can you do agaınst archer axullıa and onagers (nothing! because before you get close enough you wıll have lost your 1/3 or of your caharıots and head hurlers)

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Give them a target you don't care about.

Generic slingers in front of your line on loose formation. The AA and Onagers will then hammer them.

THEN, race your chariots around the flanks and into the archers. Be sure to charge chariots THROUGH and not into as a bogged down chariot dies quickly. Movement is its armor.

good idea and it works against computer:yes: but what about a mp battle i did not bother my missile troops against slingers hitting only the chariots and killing them means victory against britain in my opinion cause they became open to rear and flank charge from cavalary
and i agree with you speed is (and must) their armor but not enough to escape from long ranged archers (foresters, chosens, archer ax. etc.)

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Originally Posted by WarLord of the East

good idea and it works against computer:yes: but what about a mp battle i did not bother my missile troops against slingers hitting only the chariots and killing them means victory against britain in my opinion cause they became open to rear and flank charge from cavalary
and i agree with you speed is (and must) their armor but not enough to escape from long ranged archers (foresters, chosens, archer ax. etc.)

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I don't play MP. Since in MP your opponent would control the targeting, the chariots would be nearly useless. Might be able to use them against a Carthaginian or Spanish opponent since they lack foot archers -- and chariots fare no worse against hefalumps than any other cavalry, but any of the other factions would tear them up too quickly.

Might want to deploy 1-4 chariot units of light or heavy type in MP in order to focus your opponent while you bring the rest of your infantry army up to where you want it to be, but I think that would be about it.

As you can probably guess i like to play as brittania. I am going to explain my strategy in battles and the campaign. However, I cant control italy cuz the roman economy is impossible to top by the time i get to them. in battles my ideal army is 2 light chariots, 1 general(just for rally ability mostly), 2 heavy chariouts or barbarion cav mercs, 2 wardogs, 1 druids, 2 head hurlers, + whatever infantry i can scrap together. my army ends up looking some thing like this.

.......................................... WW........................
.........LL ......................IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.............CC
....................................HHH..D....HHH..............
............................................G.................
.
Although after reading this thread i probaly will move the head hurlers in front of the infantry. i use the cavalry to take out missile and artillery then they fight morale increasing troops like gallic druids or germanic schreeching women. My druids chant, my general sits and looks pretty while keeping my army from routing, my wardogs i rush immediatly at my opponents best infantry. most barbarian infantris will advance slowly then charge the last little bit so i pepper them to death with light chars and then head hurlers when they get closer. At this point the battle is basically mine, the last step is to have all infantry warcry and do a short charge into the enemy, half the enemy army will have so low of morale by this time time they will rout so finish off any infantry that actually want to fight then chase the routers with cavalry and light chariots till they leave.:smash:

As for the campaign i sell off the mainland province to gaul. next i ally with them and germania, i send my diplomat to get alliances and trade rights with nearly every faction, i use the mainland army to take over ireland then build up my economy and make 1 of the army i mentioned above and betray germania. after batvodurm, bordeshom, and damme fall fairly quickly Gaul will betryay you, set up a defensive front in germany and by this time i have built another army in londen which i use to take back samarobiva and that northwest tip of france, i then try to build a couple of armies and take alesia(i lose a couple thousand troops taking this place) after alesia falls most of france is easy to take. I do a circle around spain and take over the eastern halve of germania. Unfortunately i hit a wall against the jullii:wall: their armies are so big and their north italy cities are so close together i just cant make a dent and even when i do beat them Spqr and Capua have full stack armies and bruttii usually move a couple armies over from the east and im stuck about 5 provinces short of winning the game every time.:help:

Tough call, my woad warrior friend.

1. Avoid field battles against Romans with your standard infantry army. Win or lose, you will simply take too many casualties for what you earn. Against post Marian Romans, it is even more likely that you will lose. If you must fight them with infantry in the field, try hitting with heavy chariots followed IMMEDIATELY by infantry (and then pull out the heavies). This will sometimes break up their formation enough to let you mob the unit under. You will still take heavy casualties.

Instead, use your troops in city assaults. Sapping, Towers, and sometimes ladders work well. Dogs make a wonderful "forlorn hope" unit for taking breaches since you don't care about the doggies surviving (only the handlers) and they can create enough space for you to deploy infantry to follow. HTH, your chosen sworders are okay in street fights where pila are harder to hit with. Plus, you can often create 2-1 fights since the AI will almost always keep a unit or three in the square. Always have at least one unit running around the walls taking towers from the Romans -- every single one killed by a tower will help you.

2. For field battles, try Parthian tactics with quarter to half stack groups of light chariots. Shoot and evade until time runs out. Requires a good bit of micro-management, but can end up giving you excellent attrition ratios overall and prevent the Romans from relieving a besieged town. This is especially true on defense since it would count as a "win."

3. Send generals off on raids to recruit interesting mercenaries for your forces. It will take a while to get them back to your training zones, but Sarmatians are a good medium cavalry with a much better charge than barb cav; Horse archers are almost always useful (see 2 above); Merc hoplites are always useful as an "anvil;" Balearic Slingers are a great unit to use as a shooter from atop a Stone Wall; Spanish infantry give you a javelin ability to mix in with your pure swords; and (if you can sneak a boat there and back) Africa could net you Jav Cav, Libyans, or even War Elephants once in a blue moon. Cretans, Bastarnae, Rhodians, and Eastern Infantry are all harder for you to get, and aside from the Cretans are duplicated by other units you have/can get.

4. Create ambushes when possible. Put out some tempting bait a couple of squares behind your warriors hidden in the forrest. Sometimes this is enough of an advantage to beat Rome in the field (as Q. Varus would attest....had he survived).

Alright My eastern army finally was defeated outside of Ariminium but the Julii are on the ropes and that last battle took out more than a third of Spqrs forces and the jullii have a quarter stack in italy and a full stack in palma. Italy is almost devoid of troops so once my western army arrives should easily kick the romans out of their homeland. thanks for the Ambush tactic Seamus:charge: I killed more than half of the julii's totals army in three battles with that tactic. I also realized something interesting about the light charitots.... THEY HAVE SCYTHES!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

Alright My eastern army finally was defeated outside of Ariminium but the Julii are on the ropes and that last battle took out more than a third of Spqrs forces and the jullii have a quarter stack in italy and a full stack in palma. Italy is almost devoid of troops so once my western army arrives should easily kick the romans out of their homeland. thanks for the Ambush tactic Seamus:charge: I killed more than half of the julii's totals army in three battles with that tactic. I also realized something interesting about the light charitots.... THEY HAVE SCYTHES!!!!!!!

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You are welcome.

Yeah, the scythes on the lights give them at least one hard "thonk" against any cavalry that chases them down and can really hammer a non-armored infantry unit too. Just remember to get moving again quickly -- they do NOT have the staying power to follow up the initial charge-hit with the scythes.