Do you beleave in God(Poll)

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Originally Posted by Husar

And please don´t insult my physics teacher just because I can´t explain. ~;) ~:rolleyes:

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It was harsh but I based it on your statement:

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Well our teacher said that physicians have no explanation

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Stated that your teacher said physicists (I assume that is what you meant) have no explanation. Which is totally incorrect. They have an explanation that is more correct then Newtons Laws of Motion.

All matter is a wave and a particle. The larger particles are massive compared with their wave form.

Having the properties of a wave and a particle is like having weight and mass.

Objects can have more then one property.

What is interesting with quantum sized particles is that the measurement of one brings a significant uncertainty to the measurement of another property.

Which also links to this

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

if you knew the exact temperature of the room, weight of the balls, time between balls releasing and balls selecting, and God knows what else, one could predict the lottery numbers.

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There will also be a portion of unpredictability due to the uncertainty principle, however the uncertainty is essentially inversly proportional to the mass of the object. With the size of the lottery balls the uncertaintly is going to be so tiny as not to be bothered with (ie you could do the lottery for billions of years and the quantum effects would not visible effect your predictions) So lottery balls act essentially in a Newtonian bounded situation.

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

Collisions are not like the lottery numbers. And, hypothetically, if you knew the exact temperature of the room, weight of the balls, time between balls releasing and balls selecting, and God knows what else, one could predict the lottery numbers. Collisions can be predicted, they are not like the lottery numbers.

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1) Technically: I can't exactly remember Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. From what I remember, you cannot predict the location and momentum of an object at the same time. You can get close to the location at the expense of momentum You can get close to the momentum at the expense of certainty of its location.

Since momentum = mass x velocity, the bigger the mass the bigger the momentum, hence less the certainty on it's location. The smaller the mass, the less certainty on it's momentum.

2) You just said you know that genetic mutation is random.

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I know that genetic mutation is random

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Well, you're saying you can also predict genetic mutation, since physical collisions cause molecular changes. When I say random, I mean it happens randomly.

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Yeah, I don't know what this means.

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That's ok. Dna is made up of small units called nucleotides. These nucleotides are differentiated by their bases: Adenine, Thymine, Guanine and Cytosine.

Coding in dna works in triplets, hence the "triplet code". These triplets eventually code for a specific Amino Acids (a basic unit of protein). Say, a small chunk of dna code is this:

GCA-CAC (coding for Alanine and Histidine).

The Cytosine is replaced by Guanine. Now you have:

GCA-CAG (coding for Alanine and Glutamine). The protein is now slightly changed.

You can also have deletions and additions. As you can imagine this "frameshift" will also change the codes.

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Increase the risk of cancer, then.

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Definitely. ~:)

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When I say host, I only mean the living thing to which the genes are a part, possibly like a symbiot (sp) and host, one cannot exist without the other.

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Symbiosis means two separate organisms, but your dna is instrinsic to you as you are instrinsic to your dna.

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The concept of a "good" gene and a "bad" gene is defined in the book, and takes about half a chapter to define, so I shall leave it to you to read.

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The words are very broad, it can mean anything.

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Sorry, I meant that mutation in beings, as in survival of the most well adapted. This mutation is not random. I know that genetic mutation is random

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Mutation occurs in the genetic level, see above. The phenotypic change arising from this we can seen in the traits.

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No, that's definitely wrong. If the blue-colour gene is recessive, and two brown-coloured insects both have the blue-colour gene, then their offspring has a chanc of being blue

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That is correct, specifically, 25 percent chance. But, 75% brown. ~:)

Thank you, Quietus, I didn't know much of that stuff about genetics. You are obviously a learned man (or woman, since I have no way of knowing over t'internet, but I assume man). I am not fit to argue genetics, since I have decided not to do Biology in school, so my knowledge of genetics is brief.

It appears that our debate over theology has become a debate about genetics, which, as I have said, I am not fit to debate (which is why I wished to know of your experience in the field).

I shall try and get this back on track to a theological debate, with a joke...

St. Peter and God were playing golf one day. Peter teed of first and hit a
pretty good shot straight down the fairway. God teed off next and hit a
terrible shot heading for the rough. Then out of the blue, a squirrel caught
the ball and ran with it to the fairway. Then a bird swooped down and
took the ball It dropped the ball in on a turtle in a water hazard. The turtle
then put the ball in the hole and God got a hole in one. Peter turned to
God and said, "Are we gonna play golf or are we gonna f@ck around?!!"

The point is that seemingly un related events may be the work of God.

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

St. Peter and God were playing golf one day. Peter teed of first and hit a pretty good shot straight down the fairway. God teed off next and hit a terrible shot heading for the rough. Then out of the blue, a squirrel caught the ball and ran with it to the fairway. Then a bird swooped down and took the ball It dropped the ball in on a turtle in a water hazard. The turtle then put the ball in the hole and God got a hole in one. Peter turned to God and said, "Are we gonna play golf or are we gonna f@ck around?!!"

The point is that seemingly un related events may be the work of God.

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That's just as legitimate a method of reasoning as Family Guy satirising a teacher's arrest because he couldn't teach the evolutionary theory of "Einstein going back in time and ejaculating in primordial ooze", which prompted a response of "this stupid country..."

Look, I'm not trying to prove the existence of God, but prove that one can neither prove nor disprove His existence. Yet.

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

Look, I'm not trying to prove the existence of God, but prove that one can neither prove nor disprove His existence. Yet.

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The number of disputable assumptions are endless, just count for me the number of ways in which an atome cannot be splitted.

More Grand Inquisitors must be recruted! The zeal of this forum is slipping. Only mass burnings will convince the heretic of the Almighty's power and wrath.

The Pope used to be the head of the Inquisition, you know, but they don't call it the Inquisition any more...

super theist, but religion ***** is on a mission to save the zeal

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

The Pope used to be the head of the Inquisition, you know, but they don't call it the Inquisition any more...

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Now it is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

Look, I'm not trying to prove the existence of God, but prove that one can neither prove nor disprove His existence. Yet.

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Howabout the Jedi/Sith Force? Can you disprove that?

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Originally Posted by King Henry V

More Grand Inquisitors must be recruted! The zeal of this forum is slipping. Only mass burnings will convince the heretic of the Almighty's power and wrath.

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Hey, I burned at least a dozen popes, and countless kings. Can I be recruited?

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Back on topic: No, I don't believe in any gods until I actually see their power.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Howabout the Jedi/Sith Force? Can you disprove that?

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Exist - they do. ~D

I agree that nobody can proove that there is or there is not a god. Just a thought i made. Sometimes our insticts or collective memory are more true than pure logic. I mean how many times you had a feeling about something and turned right? If humans are ''programmed'' to seek god maybe this is a proove of gods existence. I m not aware of any atheistic culture ever.

Alll those are just crazy thoughts i make sometimes like the type ''imaging our solar system being a molecule in a great body. All those molecules-solar systems form a universe body wich belongs to somebody-god''.

Mysteries of existence....

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

If humans are ''programmed'' to seek god maybe this is a proove of gods existence. I m not aware of any atheistic culture ever.

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Interesting thought, but I think I have a rational counter statement for it. Man is not necessarily programmed to think this way. We do however make up a lot of myths and heroes. I remember when I was really young I would fantasize I was a superhero and I actually "believed" I would reach that point one day. I think that is but a microcosm of what the whole does. Now the god situation is very interesting because it's one of the few fantasies that one cannot disprove.

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

I m not aware of any atheistic culture ever.

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Hang out at a physics club and you will see an interesting mix of atheistic, agnositc and believer cultures.

Atheistic culture exists and it is more then the denial of God.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Hang out at a physics club and you will see an interesting mix of atheistic, agnositc and believer cultures.

Atheistic culture exists and it is more then the denial of God.

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I mean primitive or ancient culture not one forged with todays science discoveries.

What is Atheistic culture Papewaio?

I only know one ardent Atheist, myself. The rest of the people I know believe in fate, destiny, a god in one form or another, are agnostic or are apathetically religious.

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

I agree that nobody can proove that there is or there is not a god. Just a thought i made. Sometimes our insticts or collective memory are more true than pure logic. I mean how many times you had a feeling about something and turned right? If humans are ''programmed'' to seek god maybe this is a proove of gods existence. I m not aware of any atheistic culture ever.

Alll those are just crazy thoughts i make sometimes like the type ''imaging our solar system being a molecule in a great body. All those molecules-solar systems form a universe body wich belongs to somebody-god''.

Mysteries of existence....

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Unfortunately it seems clear to me that several human nature, otherwise called characteristics (evolved by evolution - I don't waste my time with any creationists, by the way) that led to a virtually universal belief in divinity - supernatural power beyond human control.

1. Control: Nature was - and is, for the most part - beyond human control. However, our evolved nature makes us feels that nature must be controlled...by something. Here is the where the first myth of the gods, most, except very few, placed their trust on polythiestic divinity. Of course, until the developments go further, and prove the strength and, arguably, ruthlessness of monotheistic religions.

2. Fear: We are afraid - simple as that. Death, enemy, defeat, humiliation, etc. - we fear, so we seek a sort of comfort. This comfort must not be disprovable by human's reach - so what is better than divinity? Indeed, the comfort provided by the belief something that "have power over humans" allows some people to go further in their exploits, good or bad, "without" fear.

3. Greed: for anything, not only wealth. Greed inspires (or, more properly, forced) us to seek help of something that "have power beyond humans" and "is predictable." Again - divinity comes in.

4. This Nature is hard to name, but I will call it "crowd." It has far-reaching effects indeed. Crowd - makes most of us "followers" and a few of us "leaders." In what deals with divinity - preachers (priests, prophets, etc.) are leaders, and the followers follow them without question. Also, this allows another side effect: "follow the crowd." Since the majority of people do this, the rest follows; the extension of followers-leaders relationship. In addition, the "crowd" are often representing a very emotional/unlogical part of humanity. Most would not act seriously in something that did not bother their everyday lives so much, or that they are seeking excuses not to do so, unless the situation becomes desperate - like most revolutions. This "crowdedness" also forced the minority - I am sure there are atheists, secret or not, since there are thinkers - that does not "falls" to believe in divinity, or question them, to silence. The method of silencing (pressure, expulsion, conviction, execution, etc.) does not matter - but all are often not pleasant.

Hence I argue that, unless divinity is proven, I will always remain skeptical.

Edit: Idomeneas, my answers seems to answer your question two posts before me, posted after I enter the posting page.

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Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

What is Atheistic culture Papewaio?

I only know one ardent Atheist, myself. The rest of the people I know believe in fate, destiny, a god in one form or another, are agnostic or are apathetically religious.

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Thats why I mentioned a physics club, get a far higher number of atheists. It is interesting the ideas they have, a lot of them are very strong believers in social justice and other ideas. They have a strong interest in fairness, the ability to test a situation, a like of fantasy books and a like of science fiction as well. Strong mathematics ability, greater majority can play musical instruments. A duality of hating 'fuzzy' subjects while like quantum physics.
In short Geeks and Nerds in a critical mass...

So sort of a variant on a 'jock' culture, not an entire civilisation... just what our civilisation is based on. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Thats why I mentioned a physics club, get a far higher number of atheists. It is interesting the ideas they have, a lot of them are very strong believers in social justice and other ideas. They have a strong interest in fairness, the ability to test a situation, a like of fantasy books and a like of science fiction as well. Strong mathematics ability, greater majority can play musical instruments. A duality of hating 'fuzzy' subjects while like quantum physics.
In short Geeks and Nerds in a critical mass...

So sort of a variant on a 'jock' culture, not an entire civilisation... just what our civilisation is based on. ~;)

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In other words, "Renaissance" (the name that signifies ideal people in Renaissance beliefs) people: innovative and multi-skilled - and geek. ~D

Sounds a lot like me, except I am better at and prefer English and History over Math.

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Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

Sounds a lot like me, except I am better at and prefer English and History over Math.

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Look, are you some kind of my clone or long-lost real brother? :inquisitive: You copycat! ~D

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

Interesting thought, but I think I have a rational counter statement for it. Man is not necessarily programmed to think this way. We do however make up a lot of myths and heroes. I remember when I was really young I would fantasize I was a superhero and I actually "believed" I would reach that point one day. I think that is but a microcosm of what the whole does. Now the god situation is very interesting because it's one of the few fantasies that one cannot disprove.

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What was the religion of the Huns?

You're right NeonGod, I forgot about the Huns. They were indeed atheist and did not believe in an afterlife, then again very little is known about them.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

You're right NeonGod, I forgot about the Huns. They were indeed atheist and did not believe in an afterlife, then again very little is known about them.

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Booyakasha.

Cool, I never kinew the Huns were Atheists. Cool beans.

Why is it important if there is a God or not ? I think it's up to him if he wants to show his face or not..... ~;)

Well it is not important in my world (the world as I understand it) because there is no god(s).

There is an oddity in the world that carries over into my world. That is that most people believe in a god or gods.

How do you know that there is no God?

No one can prove or disprove Gods existence - each to their own beliefs ~:)