Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Like I said, if they do enforce it correctly, even still though, how can they get the guns off the street if the crinmals are not caught and are not resigted?
Are you talking about criminals being registered?
The problem of getting guns already in criminal hands out of their hands is an interesting one. Most criminals are probably convicted felons, so they can't legally have a firearm. To me it seems like police departments are not doing much to proactively get guns from criminal hands before they are used in a crime. It would take a lot of manpower to make a dent, I'd think.
I do wonder why they do such useless things like 'gun buy backs' which are dominated by older folks turning in guns they haven't used in 20 years. And then the city crows about all the guns it 'got off the street' as if the ones it bought were remotely likely to be actually used in crime.
CR
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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The problem of getting guns already in criminal hands out of their hands is an interesting one. Most criminals are probably convicted felons, so they can't legally have a firearm.
An interesting one:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: the problem is that people can have firearms before they are convicted felons , but when they become convicted felons there is no register of what guns they already own but are no longer allowed to own .
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I do wonder why they do such useless things like 'gun buy backs' which are dominated by older folks turning in guns they haven't used in 20 years.
Yeah apart from the people who do strange things like hand in anti-aircraft missiles:2thumbsup:
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And then the city crows about all the guns it 'got off the street' as if the ones it bought were remotely likely to be actually used in crime.
Errrrr....one source of weapons used in crimes is guns that are stolen from peoples homes , removing those weapons "off the street" reduces the available supply for criminals , strange that isn't it , if someone steals a gun it is a pretty sure fiire bet that they may just possiby be one of them criminal people , though of course pawn-shops are another target of people wanting to steal guns ...hmmm...laws concerning the trade of second had firearms by non-registered arms dealers again eh .:yes:
Ooooooo ..thats a hard one :yes:
errrrrr....Gary , Newark , Richmond , Irvington , Flint , New Orleans ,Trenton, Detroit ,Camden , Compton , Richmond(not the same one) , Youngstown ,Oakland , Birmingham , St.Louis , Baltimore .
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And you still haven't shown how that made DC's gun control effective.
Errrrrrr....I said the legislation was ineffective
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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the problem is that people can have firearms before they are convicted felons , but when they become convicted felons there is no register of what guns they already own but are no longer allowed to own .
Lol. And how many felons do you think buy guns from gun stores and the like, even before they're convicted? How big of a problem do you think that is? Is it 'the' problem? :laugh4: :laugh4: Gee, if we could just get those criminals to obey the law. :laugh4: :laugh4:
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errrrrr....Gary , Newark , Richmond , Irvington , Flint , New Orleans ,Trenton, Detroit ,Camden , Compton , Richmond(not the same one) , Youngstown ,Oakland , Birmingham , St.Louis , Baltimore .
Heh. Now can you provide some data? Oh, and do give states for places like Richmond.
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one source of weapons used in crimes is guns that are stolen from peoples homes , removing those weapons "off the street" reduces the available supply for criminals
I can see you've not been to a gun buyback. These are by and large a collection of old, dilapidated guns, that people have stored in some dusty corner deep in a closet. Not likely to be found or used.
Does it remove some chance of those old beaters being used? Meh, I suppose, but it's fairly minor and all out of proportion to what the groups doing the buybacks claim.
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I said the legislation was ineffective
And I asked in my post;
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And how is DC's legislation ineffective? No residents can own handguns, or buy handguns, or use long guns for self defense.
Oh wait, I get it; it isn't effective if it does nothing, but if the same laws someplace else work for an unrelated reason, it's 'effective'. :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Funny how you ignore the bits trashing your silly claim comprehensive source to user legislation is needed, or about Britain's 'effective' gun control.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
CR
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Lol. And how many felons do you think buy guns from gun stores and the like, even before they're convicted?
Errrrr...how many ...errrr......that would be all felons who purchased firearms from registered gun dealerships before they became convicted felons wouldn't it , however it would not cover any felons who purchased guns from unregistered arms dealers before they became convicted felons . It could also be used to cover all nutters who purchased firearms from registered dealers before they were classified as nutters who shouldn't be permitted firearms , though of course likewise it wouldn't cover any nutters who purchased them from non-registered dealers before they became nuts .
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Oh wait, I get it; it isn't effective if it does nothing, but if the same laws someplace else work for an unrelated reason, it's 'effective'.
what a muppet :coffeenews:
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Heh. Now can you provide some data?
Data ? oh thats quite simple Rabbit just look at murder rates per 100,000 people for american cities :idea2:
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Funny how you ignore the bits trashing your silly claim comprehensive source to user legislation is needed
what is funny is that you havn't even attempted to address it , let alone trashed it .
Is your poor performance why you don't want to debate gun laws Rabbit ?:inquisitive:
No surprise when all you can manage is tripe like
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or about Britain's 'effective' gun control.
Do you have to invent statements as well as inventing "facts" ?
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Errrrr...how many ...errrr......that would be all felons who purchased firearms from registered gun dealerships before they became convicted felons wouldn't it
Duh. The question was; how large is that group?
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Data ? oh thats quite simple Rabbit just look at murder rates per 100,000 people for american cities
For all your braying about it, you've shown no facts. And you still have said which Richmonds you're talking about. Do you really think this is clever? You make some vague reference and then when people want some proof you act like they're stupid for not trusting you about something you refuse to go into detail about?
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what is funny is that you havn't even attempted to address it , let alone trashed it .
Are you blind? :inquisitive:
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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Now, you said this:
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No rabbit the bare minimum isn't enough ,what is needed is comprehensive legislation all the way from source to user .
Which is simply false. Let's take a look at Vermont, shall we, where today's murder rate is a fraction of the national rate. And they certainly don't have 'source to user' legislation. Oh, you'll whine about how the situation there is different from other states. Maybe it is, but it certainly shows how false your claim is.
Hey, I've got an idea; let's look at Seattle. That's a big city, lots of people and the like. But still, the rate their is 1/5 of the most recent rate in DC, which is lower than it's been in DC for many, many years.
And Seattle allows anyone who's not a criminal and 21 to apply and automatically receive a license to carry a gun, like the rest of Washington state. And with none of you 'source to user' legislation.
Gee, what's that word you like to write so often, and how does it apply to your claim?
Lol!
Some questions you still haven't answered:
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And how is DC's legislation ineffective? No residents can own handguns, or buy handguns, or use long guns for self defense.
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What city in the US would you say had effective gun control?
Why did 'effective' legislation in Britain cause a big jump in people killed or injured by real (non air-gun) firearms?
For all your smug insults, all you've done is make statements with nothing to back them up. You claim 'source to user' legislation is needed; obviously it isn't. It's misguided; it's aimed at people who obey the laws while criminals will find ways around it. What is needed is better enforcement, on the legislation/police side and changing the society to reduce crime on the community side.
CR
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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For all your braying about it, you've shown no facts.
Since the facts are easily available to anyone with a computer is there any need to present them ? Much the same way as it is easy for anyone to check the "facts" you present
No , and you havn't addressed it , you have attempted to skirt it by throwing irrelevant subjects into the equation .
Look ..
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Why did 'effective' legislation in Britain
You are the only person who here who uses "effective" in relation top those laws , thats known as a strawman isn't it:idea2:
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You claim 'source to user' legislation is needed; obviously it isn't. It's misguided; it's aimed at people who obey the laws while criminals will find ways around it.
errrrr...the idea is to make it harder for criminals to find ways round it:idea2:It has no impact on legal activities .
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What is needed is better enforcement
errrr...the idea is to make it easier to enforce :idea2:
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Since the facts are easily available to anyone with a computer is there any need to present them ? Much the same way as it is easy for anyone to check the "facts" you present
Stalling the inevitable I see. I know its hard to accept what you've been saying is a bunch of bull, so I forgive you if you let yourself down slowly.
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No , and you havn't addressed it , you have attempted to skirt it by throwing irrelevant subjects into the equation .
You say 'source to user legislation is needed' - I showed examples of places without such legislation and little violent crime. Kinda disproves the whole idea that such legislation is needed, doesn't it?
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You are the only person who here who uses "effective" in relation top those laws , thats known as a strawman isn't it
And what isn't effective about those laws? They ban nearly all handguns, long guns, have strict regulations and licenses on what you can own, how you can use and store it, etc., etc. All the restrictions and regulations you could dream of. And the entire country is on an island, surrounded by nations with gun control.
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errrrr...the idea is to make it harder for criminals to find ways round it
An idea unsupported by any evidence. Gee, maybe it has something to do with the fact that criminals don't have to find ways around them, they just ignore them. Registration? Just file off the serial numbers!
The list of questions you haven't answered:
1) And how is DC's legislation ineffective? No residents can own handguns, or buy handguns, or use long guns for self defense.
2) What city in the US would you say had effective gun control?
3) Why did 'effective' legislation in Britain cause a big jump in people killed or injured by real (non air-gun) firearms?
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It has no impact on legal activities
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Next you'll say registration never leads to banning and confiscation!
Or did you mean to say 'no impact on illegal activities'?
CR
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Stalling the inevitable I see. I know its hard to accept what you've been saying is a bunch of bull
Would you be saying that from personal experience rabbit ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
I will post the figures when i choose to post them , until then it is funny watching your efforts to call them bull , you dig your own hole rabbit , it isa veritable warren by now , but keep digging :2thumbsup:
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You say 'source to user legislation is needed' - I showed examples of places without such legislation and little violent crime. Kinda disproves the whole idea that such legislation is needed, doesn't it?
Not in the slightest , it would appear that your notion that you have "kinda dispoved it" shows that you havn't the faintest idea what the concept is that you are trying to disprove .:yes:
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And what isn't effective about those laws? They ban nearly all handguns, long guns, have strict regulations and licenses on what you can own, how you can use and store it, etc., etc. All the restrictions and regulations you could dream of. And the entire country is on an island, surrounded by nations with gun control.
May I suggest you go way back to post #54 as I have already suggested you do and try and think , then maybe you might be able to have a little comprehension and stop trying irrelavant crap like Vermont .then perhaps you will understand the irrelavance of the questions 1,2,3 in your last post , though of course that will require some thought on your part which I don't think will be forthcoming as you have a closed mind when the words "firearm" and "regulation" appear in close proximinty to one another .
I mean seriously
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Just file off the serial numbers!
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: what part of source to user is it that is completely beyond your ken ?:dizzy2:
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Originally Posted by Tribesman
Would you be saying that from personal experience rabbit ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
I will post the figures when i choose to post them , until then it is funny watching your efforts to call them bull , you dig your own hole rabbit , it isa veritable warren by now , but keep digging :2thumbsup:
I'm just trying to goad you into actually supporting your statements with data. ~;p
As for the rest...meh. Amazingly I'm not impressed by arguments amounting to 'you're wrong cause I say so'.
CR
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
As for the rest...meh. Amazingly I'm not impressed by arguments amounting to 'you're wrong cause I say so'.
Indeed. :yes:
Whilst I respect your Socratic style Tribesman, in this case it might do your argument some good to post more of your rebuttal data.
A debate is rarely about convincing the opponent of his error, but persuading the audience of your veracity.
I suspect this thread is no longer being read by anyone but you two and the poor, enfeebled moderators who have no choice. If I'm wrong, no doubt someone will post to say so, but in the absence of any substantive rebuttals that don't require readers to spend half their lives googling, I shall soon close the thread.
:bow:
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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I'm just trying to goad you into actually supporting your statements with data.
whilst I am just watching you call fact "bull" and call bull "facts" .
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As for the rest...meh. Amazingly I'm not impressed by arguments amounting to 'you're wrong cause I say so'.
Is that why you amazingly put forward arguements that say "you are wrong because this thing you didn't say is wrong"
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Whilst I respect your Socratic style Tribesman, in this case it might do your argument some good to post more of your rebuttal data.
What you mean something like writing 38.8 , 44.3 , 40.1 , 32.4 , 43.3 , 37.6 ,36.4 , 37.4 , 67.1 , 46.8 , 58.0 , 41.2 , 43.7 , 47.3 , 40.8 and then asking rabbit to identify which murder rate is the one he says is #1 #2 or #3 ?
Nah thats too easy Banquo why would I want to do that ?
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
Meh, I don't care if you close this.
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Is that why you amazingly put forward arguements that say "you are wrong because this thing you didn't say is wrong"
So when I quoted you, I was actually quoting your doppleganger? I see.
But I guess since you spent so much time hunting and googling to disprove a bit of my claim, you'd want to make others spend the same effort. But to reasonable people it just looks like having fun at wasting other people's time.
I mean, did you think I'd swoon and lavish praise on gun control laws after you finally revealed the data?
And so I say let's go easy on the enfeebled moderators and let them close this.
CR
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
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But I guess since you spent so much time hunting and googling to disprove a bit of my claim
errrr.....american cities murder rates don't require much hunting and searching rabbit , perhaps you should consider that when you present "facts"
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So when I quoted you, I was actually quoting your doppleganger? I see.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
rabbit you were quoting what you yourself said I had said .I repeat....You are the only person who here who uses "effective" in relation top those laws , thats known as a strawman isn't it
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Meh, I don't care if you close this.
Is that because you don't want to debate firearm legislation ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Well hows this for a question .... how does this link you posted...http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm..do absolutely nothing to support your position (in fact it weakens it ), yet does absolutely nothing in relation to my position ?
As I said , (and you can actually quote it :yes:)it would appear that your notion that you have "kinda dispoved it" shows that you havn't the faintest idea what the concept is that you are trying to disprove .
You are indeed flailing around in the darkness of a warren that you dug yourself into ...well done Rabbit:2thumbsup:
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
Rabbit wins because he provides data and doesn't use a bunch of smileys on something that really isn't all that funny. Vermont has legal concealed carry laws and has very low murder rate. DC has extreme gun control laws has one of the highest murder rates. I rest my case.
:unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates:
Now the thread can be closed.
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
And Waldinger manages to surpass Rabbit when it comes to irrelevant nonsense . Well done .
Errrr...perhaps you should read rabbits last link Waldinger so you are not so completely clueless on the subject as you appear to be .
Re: 5 Hurt in School Shooting
OK, enough.
No doubt we shall get to ride on this merry-go-round once again soon enough.
Thanks to all who contributed.
:closed:
