Philippe glares at Alain.
Something on your mind, Duc Alain ? A burr under your saddle ? Or should I say in your codpiece ?
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Philippe glares at Alain.
Something on your mind, Duc Alain ? A burr under your saddle ? Or should I say in your codpiece ?
Alain smiles and with great care examines his codpiece, shows it to Medoc, who tries to bite it, and then looks back at the King.
"The usual items are were zey need to be, Cyril is currently unsaddled in ze barn.
I simply enjoyed ze us of language in your description, oh mighty King of Kings."
Philippe smiles back with a mirthless smile.
That's what I thought...
A page enters bearing Prince Henri’s colours.
“If I may, I have an announcement to read?”
The gathered council acknowledge the page and bid he proceed
“Thank you my gathered Lords” he bows and unravels the message.
“My Lords present, on this day as it gathers close to my 18th year of age, I hereby announce my entrance into the public politic.”
The page pauses before continuing..
“I also announce my request to my...dear Father...be assigned to our borders with the Holy Roman Empire so that I may more directly aid our peoples in maintaining peace between the peoples of the Franks and Germains. Too long have I waited behind the shadow of my brother and it is time to show our great nation what good I can perform for her.”
The page rolls up the note and bows before speaking again..
“My lord, Prince Henri has tasked me with returning with any messages you have for him at this time. My name is Guntram and I await your pleasure my lords.”
My King, having studied the reports, I will release up to 1600 florins for hiring mercenaries. Your Majesty could acquire two companies of spearmen, or one company and some crossbowmen with those funds. Your choice, though it appears your Majesty needs footmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng
All I ask for Frankfurt is that you leave a company of men of your choosing behind to garrison the city. Thomas has prioritized some militia for the city, but they will not be ready until next season.
Is this acceptable?
OOC: If it is, you can take the save and make the hires yourself before any action.
Reeves hands Hugues a report. The Duc chokes on some wine he had been drinking. Wiping off his doublet, he stands to speak.
Dauphin, may I ask why your men are directly outside Bern? Your Highness is damned close to violating Edict 2.2. You're not sieging the place, but you seem to be inviting them to strike at you.
Remember the gentleman in the pointy hat? The one who can bring damnation down on us? Hmm? I'm not sure if he cares much for the subtle distinction your Highness might be aiming at.
Philippe acknowledges Hugues' proposal with a nod.
1600 florins should be enough, Senechal. I thank you and will proceed to go back to Frankfurt immediately.
(OOC : I'm not on my own internet right now and may not access the save until tomorrow so could you leave the save open until tomorrow early evening GMT...
Moreover, I'm waiting on word from Zim about some issue...:whip:)
And, Hugues, do not worry about the Pope... Surely he will make the difference between who is truly the aggressor between Louis or the Imperials...
Hugues bows to the King.
Excellent, I wish your Majesty good fortune against the Kaiser. A few more poundings might make them more likely to see reason.
OOC: Since this appears to be the major action of the turn, I'll keep the save open.
Edit: I wish I had your Majesty's confidence in the. . .strategic insight. . .of the Pontiff.
Simply put I heard a lot of talk here about the Germans at Bern being a threat to the upper Rhine region. I decided that the simplest solution would be to block them from departing that castle by taking possession of all the west bound roads out of it. The edict in question does not deny me the right to ride into German lands, and I give my word that I have no intention of making an attack. I am simply defending France from a forward position.
Let me further say that, having taken the lay of the land, the German commander at Bern is a fool to practice lay-about-the-fort thinking with the types of troops he has on hand. If it angers His Holiness that I take advantage of this fool then I will personally issue an apology and depart the region of Bern.
One thing you can be sure of, there will be no siege of Bern.
:egypt:
Hugues nods.
Hmmm, yes a "forward position", a very forward position indeed.
I trust that your Highness knows what you are doing.
Please disregard... Nothing to see here...
disregard this as well.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
"In order to relieve his majesty and others of the responsibillity of protecting Frankfurt itself for an indefinite period of time, the Seneschal has agreed to the recruitment of new spear militia companies that I will assume responsibility for. The troops within the confines of the city at the present time are free to come and go as his majesty wills it, while these newest formations remain in place to assume the burden of defending Frankfurt from direct attack. I shall also be moving to the city at once to oversee its administration."
(OOC: SOT has been updated to reflect this)
Hugues smiles and nods at Thomas.
Quite right. Frankfurt will need all the help it can get.
Reeves enters the Conseil and whispers something to the Duc and hands him a letter. As Hugues reads it, the smile slips from his face and he glances to the Throne. The Duc begins to grin again as he hands the letter back to Reeves.
The King as well.
Prince Louis enters the chamber in an ugly mood. He glares at a page who is too slow getting out of his way before declaring,
The Germans at Bern have been dealt a bloody defeat. Over six hundred were captured and awaiting execution when a laggardly batch of their reinforcements from Staufen assaulted my weary men from behind and captured our supplies. I...
Louis pauses for a moment to grimace before continuing,
I withdrew and left them in possession of the field, thus releasing all those prisoners. The Germans appear to have learned of our intention to honor the Pope's demands, and so they leave Staufen all but unguarded to take advantage. Although I won a great tactical victory on the road west of Bern I am willing to admit I made a strategic mistake by riding into Germany, and unless asked otherwise I will now retire to reinforce my army and resupply my men.
By the time the enforced truce expires I will be back, God and King willing, and we shall fall on these fools like a hammer.
The Prince takes a seat, his head held stiffly high with a grim, proud look on his face.
:egypt:
"So highness, you left the field in posession of the enemy. I find it hard to believe that laggards would catch your forces unaware. Non, I suspect some treachery was likely involved here. In any case, do not let the thought trouble you. I think there is no man here that expects every general to win every battle. The important thing is that you have found your way back safely to the Royaume, and will in time too to your caring family. Three lovely daughters now? They must be a joy to behold!"
Another season well administered, I congratulate the Seneshal on his superb job. The Duc has rightfully pointed out that no man of the Order has yet moved to protect our possession in Antwerp. Well like I have told the Seneshal in private already Gaspard de Neufville is making preparations to leave Frankfurt the hour the threat of Emperor Maximilian is dealt with. I trust His Majesty will move against him any day now.
He looks expectantly at the Throne before turning to the Council again.
Why am I telling you all this? On his way towards Antwerp Brother Gaspard is in an ideal situation to oversee the constructino of watchtowers that our Senshal has asked for. The border with the Germans is unsecure though and I had hoped that I could give him an escort of Spear Militia. Those would be well recieved in Antwerp as well. So I ask you Baron de Saint-Armand if you could spare some of your men. I am sure the Seneshal could replace them until the next season?
Now is attention is fully centered on the Duchy of Lorraine.
Hugues responds.
Well, I just looked into it, and it seems Thomas has given permission for the King to move men out of the city but not his Duc or Seneschal.
Duc raises an eyebrow in the direction of the Baron of Franconia and smirks.
An oversight I'm sure, but my hands are tied at the moment. Perhaps you could appeal to the King for a company of spearmen? Perhaps from Paris or his current army?
How many men Frankfurt can provide outside of its own Garrison is also dependent on the King's actions this season. If he leaves the city with his men, I'm afraid I'll have to build up the garrison before it contributes to other concerns, particularly if the Kaiser and his army remain intact.
Hugues scans a few reports.
Also, I would like the Conseil's opinion on negotiations with the Empire for peace. I detailed an offer I made in my latest report; 5000 florins, maps and trade rights for peace. They termed this "demanding" and refused it.
So, how much should we offer for peace? Land might be an option, but Lorraine would be loath to give up Frankfurt as the Order would Antwerp or Acquitaine, Marseille.
If we offer solely Florins, we would have to curtail any expenditures for a few seasons to come close to their demands, if they will accept money at all.
I keep expecting the Germans to be excommunicated, but the Pope keeps disappointing me. The chap must be a forgiving man to war with someone but keep them in the Church.
Thoughts?
"Offer them Caernarvon. Or anything else in the King's Demense."
Hugues chuckles.
Wales to the Empire? They'd have to be mad to even consider that.
If I was Welsh, I'd be insulted, the English don't want them, it seems, and neither do we.
Seriously, offering the Empire one of its old possessions would carry more weight I think.
Edit: Unlike the English negotiations, there are no established protocols. I would need the permission of the owner of any lands offered in a deal before consumating it. The King for the Royal Demesne, Steward Neufville for Antwerp and the like.
Yes, let's offer the Imperials Paris for a truce ! What a nice idea, Duc de Rohan !!
By the way, does the offer of the Senechal to let me recruit some mercenaries still stands ? I'll need them if we don't want to endanger the lives of the noblemen riding with me...
Hugues raises an eyebrow.
Of course your Majesty, up to 1600 florins for mercenaries.
The thought of Germans in Paris of all places is absurd, what would it be after that, Jerusalem?
Edit: Well if not Paris, what are we willing to offer the Germans, if anything?
Alain smiles at the throne.
"Beloved leader, I am sure Paris is per'aps an option.
One of God's representatives on earz' recently described it as, 'nozing but a pigsty', surely a pigsty is possible as a part of a truce agreement no?
So many mercenaries, your appetite for spending money is impressive my King."
I don't intend to give the Germans anything. We have the border well secured. The Pope has asked us to cease hostilities, but surely we can defend ourselves. Let the Germans bleed some more. They'll accept their defeat eventually. Every Knight should know defeat when it comes to him and not be ashamed to admit it. I don't like spending our florins just to keep the Germans mollified.
*Prince Henri’s standard and Page enters to join the council discussions*
My Lords,
My liege Prince Henri is currently in Metz but will shortly be leaving to join King Phillip and The Order to aid in the defence of Frankfurt.
Firstly, it is clear that we have made overtones to the Kaiser which have been rebuffed. Prince Henri states that peace will come at too high a price at this time and any such future negotiations should be postponed until the Kaiser has learned our nation will not capitulate to an exorbitant proposal.
The border should be maintained however and the large German army near Frankfurt must be compelled to leave its threatening position.
In order to do this the Prince suggests that the King’s army be kept in the field, clearly within our own borders but still either just outside or within a seasons march of Frankfurt.
Further to this, the garrison in Frankfurt is to be reduced…such military formations removed to join the Kings army…but not to such an extent as to affect public order in the city. This move is designed to try to entrap the Kaiser by enticing him to besiege Frankfurt, the Kaiser having made the first aggressive move will then be open to attack by the Kings army thereafter.
Such a counter strike must be made as immediately as possible so as to lessen the citizens discomfort.
Should the Kaisers army strike at our own Kings then he must be provided with sufficient force to utterly crush the Kaiser.
The Prince proposes that a policy of maintaining our Eastern border be enacted aggressively and any, and all, formations of German forces be met and destroyed as rapidly as possible. The Prince believes that the forces already in the upper and lower Rhine areas should be sufficient to the task if correctly distributed to ensure more balanced formations with not only noble cavalry but spears and archers of any kind available.
The Prince proposes that Militia be recruited to garrison cities and castles where possible but effort be made to ensure armies have at least two formations of spear troops of whatever type is available locally.
The Prince seconds the efforts of the Seneschal to uphold the edict from the Pope for Valencia, he also seconds his comments that we are to defend our own lands rather than impose more disfavour from the Pope by remaining in German held lands.
There is merit to what Prince Henri suggests and it goes to the heart of a question raised by the Seneschal. My permission on who could take troops from Frankfurt was deliberate. It is the king's army in my view and no one elses. It is up to his majesty to decide what troops, minus the newest spear militia company, may depart the city. If I decided otherwise, then the king might fault me for allowing his troops to be taken without permission. Therefore I must offer him my assurance that on my word as Baron of Franconia, his rights are protected, as indeed any nobleman who enjoys the hospitality of Frankfurt.
Now I have heard a matter mentioned more than once and have not chosen to speak on it. I will do so now. The ownership of Frankfurt is not negotiable, as by the king's own words he said it shall not be given up for purposes of diplomacy. Joke about giving the Kaiser our capital all you like, but indeed Paris is the only city I would take in recompense for Frankfurt. And I think we all know his majesty would die before allowing that to happen.
Hugues speaks.
Word has reached me that his Majesty has won a great victory over the Germans, which renders some of what Prince Henri said moot.
Still the Prince seems whip smart and he has several interesting notions. Letting the Germans siege one of our cities might finally goad the Pope into excommunicating them.
Much of the ransom obtained for the survivors of his Majesty's triumph will go towards a new Church in Paris, dedicated to the many victories that God has granted the King.
Hugues turns to Thomas.
Have no fear Baron, Frankfurt is not on the trading block. I'm sure once you reach the city, you'll make proper Frenchmen of them.
Thomas, council,
NO lands should go to Germany. However, the case that perhaps Frankfurt would be a made a deliberate “target” for German aggression, would only be in your agreement of course. The hope that not only the Germans would provide us the opportunity to utterly crush one of their main military formations but that the Pope, already at war with them, might finally be cajoled into excommunicating them.
Make no bones about this, my priority as a Prince of the realm is the safety of France’s citizens everywhere. However, German aggression continues to pose a threat to that even after we have made significant overtures for peace. Should the Kaiser, the NEW Kaiser, be excommunicated I would be to the fore in striking hard and deep into the Rhinelands.
I hear my brother performs well in war as always, I can only hope the same fiery blood flows through my veins. I thank our brave fighting men for making much of my previous statement…redundant…perhaps in the best possible way.
I also take the time to thank the Holy Roman Empire for their generous cash gift that will not only help to construct a new Church in Paris but I am sure aid us in raising more stout Frenchmen to best their finest.
I thank you…
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Louis responds in an angry but controlled tone without rising from his seat,
"Treachery. I will consider that possibility. Certainly there are many in France, even in this room, who are honorless and would consider such a course.
It is also possible that I was merely careless. Next time I will kill the Germans as I run them down rather than gathering them up to see if their latest master will pay a ransom.
My daughters are the most beautiful things in all the world. Their service to France will be beyond reproach."
Standing now, he turns to face the members of the Council as he speaks,
"I will concur that we should surrender no lands to the Germans at this time. If the Pope declares that we cannot retake them we will have no ward against further German treachery. They are not a people to be trusted.
I also wish to congratulate my father on putting down the most recent claimant to their throne. I had encoutered the fool myself, and I must say that his armies will be the better for his absence.
As to my intentions, I will remain in the region if requested to do so by the Seneschal, otherwise I intend to retire to Toulouse to resupply my army and perhaps retrain some of my depleted regiments. I believe the Germans will gather their forces at Bern for a time before they come again. We have dealt them many stinging defeats in the field and they have no bold commanders remaining."
:egypt:
Come now, Dauphin. If you are going to insinuate such things, give the perpetrators their names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
"Though I might find fault with your tone I will be clear that I do not refer to you, Raoul de Chatillon, or you, Thomas de Saint-Amand. There is, however, a man who in public swore he would never bend knee to his future king. You all know the name. He has demanded repeatedly that I defend myself against his baseless claims in the face of all logic.
Know that I am not of his ilk. I suspect he is capable of treachery, but I do not have any reason to call him a traitor, and so I do not claim he is such a beast. There is a difference between the two statements, and I chose my words very carefully on that precise account."
Louis' control over his voice is tight, but anger still provides a bright undertone to all his words.
:egypt:
Hugues points a finger at Raoul.
Asking for a full explanation!? You must be the traitor! J'accuse! How dare you question the existence of the seemingly infinite and shadowy network of traitors around us!
The Duc cannot keep up his sarcastic facade, he starts laughing.
Most likely it is just bad luck, though we assume it to be malicious. When I lose my quill, my first impulse is to ask who stole it, as Reeves always looks a bit sketchy, when in fact I later find it underneath my desk.
Edit: Hugues ponders the Dauphin's words for a moment.
Oh, him, well if he is able to sabotage you mon Prince, you are in a great deal of trouble.
Gaetan, who has been silent most of this time, finally shrugs at the Princes words.
"I would ask forgiveness for not coming to your aid when I saw that another German army had come upon your flank that you were not watching, and to blindly kill my men and myself in a flurry as you tried to find out how much those who surrendered to you were worth and had finished raiding the baggage train."
"However, I do not see it being forth coming, so I will not ask of it."
Louis acknowledges de Rethel's comments with a wave of his hand,
"No Frenchman riding to my aid would be killed out of hand, but neither did I send anyone to ask your help. You have done me no wrong in Germany and need not ask forgiveness for this matter.
No, I will keep the possibility of treachery in my mind, especially given how this war began, but I am not one to hide from my mistakes. I sought to profit from ransoming the Germans rather than running them down as they fled. Having captured more than twice my own numbers I lost control of the situation when the last German force came onto the field, and was forced to abandon my own supplies and the field to them. Those men quickly re-armed themselves and would have joined the attackers had we stood to fight, making for an army four times greater than my own.
It is not from pride that I say I could have defeated them again, they are merely Germans after all, but the cost to my own forces would have been very great, and I judged the need was slight. If they dare depart Bern to approach France I will return and meet them once more, only without mercy.
I will also say that if any man here, the King excepted because he is the true lion of France, has never known defeat it is only because he has fought too few battles."
:egypt:
Gaetan shook his head.
"Whether you had asked it of me or not, I had decided it would be best if I observe at the very least. However, by the time I had caught wind of the second army, I could do nothing but look on, or at the very least helplessly charge into them."
Gaetan however stand and bows deeply before Prince Louis.
"But, at this moment of consideration, I would like to withdraw my earlier statements about Prince Louis. He has proven me in my eyes he is willing to throw his personal agenda to the side when the Royaume has need of him, and his name need no longer be slandered. As a token of my sincerity and willingness to prove that my words are true, I would ask that the Prince accept an oath of fealty to him or one of his men."
A letter arrives from Hermant Mausvoisin in Frankfurt:
My Lords,
I have heard of the return of Chevalier de Rethel to the Kingdom and rumours of a reconciliation between him and the House of Acquitaine.
In the same spirit of reconciliation, I offer my unreserved apologies to the honourable Chevalier for my unchivalric conduct towards him. If I have impugned his honour, I will give him satisfaction in a duel at a time and place of his choosing. Otherwise, I wish him and the House of Acquitaine every success in their efforts for the greater good of France.
Vive le Roi! Vive la France!
Hermant
Hearing the name of Frankfurt mentioned by the scribe reading Mauvoisin's letter, Philippe winces.
I don't know about you, Mes Seigneurs, but to hear the name of our ancestors the Franks used in the guttural tongue of the Germans raises my hackles...
If the Sieur de Saint Amand is willing, I think it is time we rename the city in a more suitable and prononceable manner.
As the city is a bastion of the Franks, an outpost in holding at bay the German hordes, may I suggest renaming it Fort des Francs or Fort Franc (OOC : Frank Fort) ? Or can someone provide a more suitable name ?
Gaspard de Neufville jumps to his feet.
"Bon messieurs, I say that the city of Frankfurt be renamed Passéaux, as there are is no water near the city. While not so grand as a Fort, it may perhaps help the populace be reconciled to the return of their city to our rule.
The city will remain Frankfurt. Although our enemy may be inferior, they have their pride as do we. If the Kaiser's men were in Paris and it was renamed Kaiserstadt, how would we feel? We would be insulted. It is enough of a challenge trying to make peace with the empire. I have no desire to make negotiations more difficult by renaming their former capital and antagonizing their people in the process.
Turning to Thomas, Gaspard remarks wryly.
"Bon type, perhaps the Germans' pride would be best upheld if the city was ruled by Germans?
I will not force your hand in this Saint-Amand, the city is yours and rightfully so but I meant it as an honour to our soldiers who fell taking the city from the hands of Kaiser Heinrich and those who died preventing Maximilian from reclaiming it.
I also simply thought that it was much better sounding... We must start modeling the world in our view, only thus can the conquered begin to see that we will rule over them.
Perhaps we must simply wait until there are no more Germans before we rename the city. It is surely only a matter of time with their foolish insistence on warring with us and the Papacy.
Louis' face has cleared and his voice no longer carries the undertone of anger. As he turns to Gaetan de Rethel a look of understanding and compassion comes into his eyes,
Sir de Rethel I am pleased to hear your words. As the Holy Father above teaches, all men may err and require redemption. I have experienced this myself on the battlefield at Bern. I would not reject your oath, but if you will hear my advice Raynaud de Xaintraillies is more in need of your service currently. He oversees our holdings in Iberia by himself, and with the Spanish faltering and fractured the threat of the heathens could explode at any time.
Let me be utterly clear Gaetan; no conflict exists between us from this day forth. We are brothers in arms serving a nation at war. I noted with admiration your boldness at the pass west of Bern even before you spoke today.
I invite you to join me at Toulouse. I mean to send reinforcements into Iberia during this term, perhaps you could escort them to Sir de Xaintrailles?
:egypt:
Hugues is handed a report and stands to speak.
My King and the Nobles of the Realm, I have word from Herve de Savoie, the diplomat now handling negotiations with the English.
There is good news and bad news. The bad news is that without an alliance, the English will not swap Angers and Caen for Valencia, Wales and a massive amount of florins.
The good news is that they might still be willing to deal. Herve assures me that he could obtain Caen for Valencia, Wales and around two thousand Florins. Granted this is steep, but it is a better deal than Severin de Brie could have made.
We wouldn't get all that we wanted, but we would gain a connection to Bretagne, be rid of that task from the Pope with no penalty and gain a formidable castle.
Before negotiations proceed any further, what are the thoughts of the King and the Conseil? Should we pursue this deal?
Duc Hugues, this is good news...
But as I feared my cousin Guillaume has raised the price... If only that deal had been sealed in due time, we would not be giving two of our provinces for one of Guillaume.
But at least it will cast a land bridge to Bretagne, my goal from the beginning and the reason why I was pushing for obtaining both Caen and Angers.
Hugues bows to the King.
With respect your Majesty, no amount of land is worth being yoked with an English alliance. Does the Lion lay down with the Lamb?
But this is an old argument, no? We must focus on the future.
"Bah! The English are at war with the Scots again, now is the time for us to prepare our own strike! All have respected the King's truce so that France could regain her feet, but we've found our footing now and in just a few short seasons we could have Pamplona, Bordeaux, Anger, and Caen all!
I am sorry mon Roi, but this talk of paying William for lands that are rightfully ours is distasteful to me. We should seek peace with the Germans, they are a beaten people and their remaining lands are far from France, and with that secured we should turn on the English and repay them for their years of occupying our lands!
The English are ripe for the plucking. Give us our head at long last my father, let your nobles have the war they have sought and prayed for and we will return France to her rightful state in your name!
I want to beggar the English peasants, drive their widows weeping into the streets, and set dogs on their fleeing soldiers! I want William's sons to come pleading with us for a truce from across the channel! Let us put aside diplomacy and have back what is OURS! Surely God brought war to the English because he favors our just cause?
What say you men of the Council? Do you want to buy back our castles and enrich our enemy or take them back as they were taken from us?"
The Prince's eyes are alight with joy as he speaks, and he ends with his fist raised in the air as his voices carries through the chamber.
:egypt:
While I don't like giving money and land to the English I think the Pope has made it clear what God thinks of the bloodshed between Christian nations. We have already been on the verge of excommunication once and are now slowly rebuilding our relations with the Holy Sea. Another war against the English would again cast us in a bad light.
Hugues responds.
We would have to seize what we could in one season Dauphin, for the English are well liked by the Pope, more than us at least. We would again be threatened with Excommunication if we continued our attack past that first season.
It will take time to sway the Pope to our side. It will also take time to make peace with the Germans, so far they have been intractable and we cannot press them further until they are excommunicated.
I would love to drive the English dogs into the sea, but. . .there are obstacles.
Edit: Sometimes I wish were Orthodox like the Greeks, so we wouldn't. . .never mind.
Prince Henri, who has been sitting near the back of the council, stands, arm raised for quiet
Council members,
I too feel the same as my brother here. I find myself, disagreeably, in opposition to my Roi here.
No lands or money to the English bstards. It is our people who have fought and died for such coin and holdings, let the English be pushed from the continent. I will be willing to join my brother in this worthy task indeed.
Send them to the ocean. Then and only then will I accept treaties with these people, when they are in their own lands and not ours!
I do not however believe the Germans finally beaten. They will return but I feel we are now in a position to deal with this and still have enough brave men to oust the English finally from our lands.
If someone as cautious as I, has such confidence, what is preventing us from acting upon it?
On hearing the Pope's potential objection mentioned some of the light fades in the Prince's gaze,
Yes, the Pope's favor may be expensive to purchase, but at least if we pay him we are not funding our future enemy. Obviously we will not attack this year, but let's not pay William to conquer the Scots either. If his invasion of Scotland fails perhaps he will be more amenable to a fair deal for the return of our lands. I do strongly object to offering the Bastard our hard earned money at this time.
:egypt:
Duc,
I see the political issues at hand. However, much is possible still within these confines.
Peace with the Germans is not yet obtained and I feel it will not come…formally that is. However, their ability to physically challenge us has gone. They find war on two fronts and I am confident we can destroy and repel any incursions they put against us.
As for relations with the Pope. Does not inaction against heretics and Muslims increase the Holy Fathers anger? Would action against the heretics in Iberia increase our standing with the Holy Father so that we will be in better favour to carry out a campaign against the English?
Hugues turns to Henri.
Young Prince, for now the Germans seem subdued, but events (OOC: :wink:) can intervene. Their allies, the Poles, could come to their aid. Or another oppurtunistic power could join the fray.
We are to low, currently, in the eyes of the Pope to call for a Crusade. I don't know if a conventional war with the Moors would aid us with the Holy Father.
As Seneschal, I must do my best to enforce the Edicts passed by this body. An exchange of land is called for, a war is not. A Crusade is not.
Duc,
I understand your restrictions. I am also bound by the edicts of the council but I cannot help wondering if a conventional war on the Moors would aid us.
Still, I am young. Perhaps my hatred for the English is too much for now.
Philippe raises his scepter, bringing quiet to the Conseil.
My sons, you know me... Do you truly think I relish having English soldiers tread on soil that is rightfully ours ? Do you truly think I enjoy having to lower myself to haggle with them for the return of our rightful possesions ?
Nevertheless, my sons, I think your reasoning is faulty... But such is the enthusiasm of youth... I hear only of expenses with regards to buying our possessions back from Guillaume when I should hear about the savings...
Caen is a well-developed castle, with a port whereas Caernarvon is only a step better than a stone cave when it comes to defending and Valencia is so wrought with heathens that the Holy Father has deemed necessary to ask us to have a church built there... So I ask of you : what are those two castles but money-sinks ?
Did we acquire them at great price ? No, and thanks to the valour of our men and our generals, both came at the cost of few of our countrymen's lives.
Lastly, Caen should be the perfect staging ground should we ever decide to launch an assault on Albion.
That would be serving that bastard Guillaume some of his own medicine... Fitting, don't you think ?
So if we run a comparison, are we better off with Caen even if we have to pay florins to have it or are we better off without it ?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Gaetan nods.
"I will head south, to Iberia then, and reinforce de Xaintrailles. I thank you for your forgiveness."
Alain is handed a sheet of paper from his mercenary captain. He reads and in a particularly stiff fashion stands and bows formally to the King.
"My liege, I intend on departing Wales. Do you have any issue wiz me taking ze 'rest' of my troops wiz me?"
Philippe looks keenly at Alain.
Funny how necessity brings respect... or the semblance thereof...
You have my permission, Duc Alain though I would simply ask you to leave a single company in the city or make arrangements with the Senechal to provide for a replacement company when you leave. It would be unseemly to leave the city ungarrisoned in view of the English... Unless of course, our Senechal manages to trade it to Guillaume.
Alain shakes his head in disgust.
Yes, your most recent actions simply endear furzer loyalty and respect from me my lord.
I simply zought zat before you dismiss any MORE of my men, men who I recruit, men who fought for me and gave YOU Caernarvon, I would save zem from being dispersed into ze Welsh country side.
So, I zank you for your permission and respectfully recommend you command ze Seneschal yourself as to which regiments you wish recruited.
Philippe glares at Alain.
I'm truly shocked, Alain... And I thought you would approve cutting funds for mercenaries as, only last season, you chastised me for "spending lavishly"... The men may have helped you take Caernarvon but that was 10 seasons ago and what have they accomplished since ? Nothing aside from taking our gold, drinking our wine and living the good life at our expense...
I thought that the money spent on their luxuries could be better spent elsewhere, where it matters...
I didn't think you of all people would find fault with that...
Yvon shakes his head
if we hand Valencia to them then we will be surrounded on two sides. When they do attack, and they will, then we are going to be fighting a vicious war, and it will not be on our terms. My lord appears correct to me, It is our land, why should we pay them an arm and a leg for it?
Yvon turns to Gaetan, face hardening
It appears times change, brother in arms.
My Lords, I am truely in favour of granting Caernarvon to the English in a deal to cain Caen...and good luck to them.
It is the insistance of giving so much coin AND Valencia that sticks in my craw.
On thinking though I realise why so much coin is required...Velencia is just too far from the English crown to be controlled by them without significant expense to them. They are clearly not fools.
If we had a holding in Ireland or Norway I feel our deal would be struck with little coin or, indeed, arguments from the Council.
Velencia, for me, is a staging post for any quests against the heretics and should not be relinquished if at all possible.
As it stands however, Caen would be of much use to us.
I put my feelings to the Council and to my King, I can do nothing more.
Also, what do the Milanese think they are doing? As it stands two separate armies have marched from Italy and are making their merry way through Burgandy and Toulouse. I do not remember allowing them to do any such thing? This seems a breach of protocol that we should definitely try and fix. The armies are small so far, but I think we need to get it in these foolish Italians heads that we do not appreciate this behavior.
Christophe yawns and opens an eye.
Apologies, good sirs, I appear to have fallen asleep in the wrong place. I thought this was the Conseil due Royaume, where gathered the proud and courages nobles of France. I see that I was wrong and that I am instead surrounded by miserly merchants with no taste for battle. Please pardon me, as I had no desire to interrupt your petty hagglings. Could someone be so good as to direct me to whence I could find those men whose sacks are filled with brass, rather than gold?
Philippe looks at de Perrone.
And pray tell us, de Perrone, of your accomplishments ? Have done anything else but follow in the wake of my son Louis, with the baggage train, so to speak ? Here are men that have fought valiantly for the Crown and for France (pointing towards the benches of Lorraine and the benches of the Order) so keep your insults to yourself unless you have something useful to say.
There is more brass in these men's sacks that there will ever be in yours, they've proven it.
Hugues mutters to himself, "Flung by my own trebuchet" and then stands to speak.
My King and Seigneurs, we have all served the realm in different ways. Some in battle, some in diplomacy and some in administration. All service is valued.
Hugues glances at the King after saying this and then continues.
The question on the table is whether the deal that we can reach with the English is good for the Realm. The King has raised several fine points for it, and I agree with his Majesty. Others have stated we shouldn't buy what we can take by force.
I can understand those views, but given the current circumstances and edicts, I am inclined to make the deal.
Edit: Hugues turns to Lacaze.
I will keep an eye on the Milanese. I'll have more to say on the matter once I have the latest reports.
"The agreement is not ideal but it brings us a step closer to our goal.
In zat regard I also zink we should move forward wiz ze proposition."
Gaspard rises to speak.
"I must urge the Seneschal not to push forward with a deal that is disadvantageous to the realm. Sooner or later, the Normans will wage war upon us. We are all aware of Guillaume's greed, and his ambition is no doubt to put our Roi's crown upon his own brow. He will thus only conclude a deal which furthers those plans.
Instead, I suggest that we make our peace with the Germans and rush to aid the Scots, who are now, as we speak, fighting a war against the Normans. Should they be overwhelmed, then the whole of Albion - saving Caernarvon, will be in the hands of our greatest enemies. With the whole of the resources of those lands, six rich and prosperous provinces, Guillaume will be well placed to launch an assault upon our under defended lans.
Under most circumstances, I would gladly agree to negotiation over the sword, but the simple fact is that our neighbour cannot be trusted. I am sure our Roi remembers when Guillaume fought against his father, Henri. His plans were frustrated then, so we can be sure he will not hesitate to seize any favourable occasion to seek revenge.
I urge you, Duc Hugues, do not go through with this treaty. Instead, let us sharpen our lances and ready our mail, and ride forth to drive the Normans from these shores!
Gaspard resumes his seat.
Hugues responds to Gaspard.
Chevalier, I have reported to the Conseil how hard it would be to make peace with the Germans. I cannot snap my fingers and make it happen. Peace would most likely involve concessions of land and money. This has already been soundly spoken against.
The Scots, barring intervention from the Pope, seem to be doomed.
I do not want to fight a war on two fronts.
I will keep my Kings council on these matters for now. A continued offensive war against the English, though appealing to many of us at so many levels would only result ultimately in Excommunication.
That would be an unacceptable price indeed, no matter the cultural need we have to have our own lands back.
I can wait for this.
Thinking to the future, I see our quest into Iberia as something we will need to do in the near years, the cleansing of the Heretics is something that must call all of us eventually…Muslim presence on the continent will not be tolerated for much longer.
To this end, I ask, how will relinquishing control of our Iberian holdings hamper this? It is an open question but one the Seneschal and the King must consider.
Caen will be big boost to our nation that is certain and link our Kingdom finally, I care not for Wales so that leaves only the consideration of coin…can we truly afford this cost? With Caen under our domain finally, would the income from here pay for itself?
The next issue is the Milanese. I too have heard reports of at least one army, small this is true, near our Mediterranean coast. They are certainly no direct military threat as they are small but they can stop trade, affecting the states income, and if they do have aggressive intent they are more than capable of besieging one of our cities and potentially starving it out before aid arrives.
Should we strike at such an army though, even if they are in our own territory…would we…AGAIN…be verbally assaulted by the Papacy for striking at our Catholic neighbours?
Personally, I would see a small force sent to destroy these incursions where-ever they occur but perhaps just a significantly superior force needs to chaperone these forces away from our provinces?
Of course, it would also be more advantageous to attack these formations as the Milanese are rich and could pay ransom for their wandering men but I still am perplexed by the Popes responses to us of late.
My lords,
We have lived in a land that is oppressed and subjugated by the English for too long.
We have not shown them that we even dislike this situation and so the Scots think us unlikely allies.
The English also hold the most strategically useful regions available to us.
Three castles we need to make a professional army, two of which can develop trade and a navy.
One which doesn't need protection due to being surrounded by France.
All this and we have crusaded east and south, our holdings in Spain are under defended and vulnerable to the Moors. Our east holds on a knife edge with Germans being defeated Against the odds.
And the Italians march unopposed through our south and could take advantage of our small numbers.
I must ask why have we not liberated our home Provence's and built our military to defend our foreign conquests.
I care not why such a crusade into german lands happened but if the senechal doesn't wish to trade it back to them he must look to building a stronger military because the Germans will keep trying to take it back.
Christophe bows his head towards the King.
Of course, my Lord, my apologies. I did not realize that you disapproved of your nobles serving their lieges in battle. I most humbly apologize for fighting with Prince Louis at Valencia and Bern. I will endeavor to make sure that I ignore my rightful Lords' pleas for aid when I am nearby, particularly if that Lord is you. I would not wish to disappoint you in such a direct manner.
By the way, my King, what is the proper etiquette for dealing with one of your own vassals who has surpassed you in power? Do you bow to him, or does he bow to you? It must be very awkward for Duke William to receive your diplomats, under the circumstances. Just thinking of the protocol involved is giving me a headache!
Hearing the King speak to de Perrone so Louis raises an eyebrow,
Mon Roi I must protest, Christophe de Perrone has fought admirably under my command on several occassions. The only reason he has not taken a command himself is that I have not asked it of him. At Valencia he helped me drag down the mighty general El Cid, and though I do not doubt the courage of the men you mention I do say none of them has faced a foe so renowned as that Spanish rebel.
If my Hawk is vocal in his displeasure over bartering with the English this does him no discredit in my eyes. We know they will play us false in the full course of events. Do any here doubt that war is inevitable?
That being the accepted truth before God the matter becomes a simple question of whether the war begins on William's terms or our own. Right now he is engaged in foolishness to his north with the Scots, even as we are engaged to the east, for the moment. I say we could reclaim all our lands before he turned his war machine back to us, forcing him to fight his way across the Channel.
How can any red blooded Frenchman deny a desire to win back our provinces in battle rather than buying them over the table?
:egypt:
*Henri hears Phillips words and rises*
Again brother you change your ideals. First you call, as I did, for war on the English...then after being reminded of the very real consequences, you withdraw your statement and now you stand again to call for war?
Do you not remember why you cow'd before? Need you be reminded, do ANY of us need reminding of the consequences if we are Excommunicated?!?
Before you a choice then my Lords here present. Hold our German frontiers and wage war on the English and BE DAMNED...in the eyes of the Pope and God or gather our forces, defend our borders..ALL of our borders and strike on England when we have men and horse to do the deed so swiftly that the Pope will have no option but to accept our claims.
My good brother, I did no such thing. I simply said it would be more expensive to buy the Pope's favor, but that does not mean it isn't worth doing. I know that you are new to the Council but I ask that you pay more attention to the proceedings if you wish to contribute.
Prince Louis smiles in Henri's direction.
:egypt:
*A note is passed to Henri, which he reads and nods to himself before standing*
“Louis my brother, that is so. Perhaps with the coin gained from the English held provinces and our Sisters boundless skills, favour of the Pope can be regained.
We must though build up our forces more. We are battered from besting our German neighbours so perhaps a time of consolidation of our armies is overdue?”
*Henri sits again and starts to write a note before handing to a page who disappears via a side door*
Christophe nods vigorously in agreement.
By paying Duke William, we will receive one-third of our occupied lands and the King will be forced to formally acknowledge one of his own vassals as an equal. By paying the Pope, all of France will be re-united and the honor and prestige of the French Houses will be upheld. I clearly do not understand diplomacy or finance as well as some of the rest of you, but it seems to me that even if the cost of dealing with the Pope is greater, the benefits are more than enough to make it a superior investment.
Having observed the debate with great interest, Baron Thomas rises to speak.
"Gentlemen, we desire much the same, and that is the proper unification of our lands that rightfully belong to us. The issue is how to accomplish this. Although things are not moving as quickly as some would like, let us not ignore the fact that very real progress is being made in our standing in Rome. We are favored over England, and the Huns, well...we know that they are mere steps away from being denied the sacrament. Would any man here accept that same sentence of excommunication? I think not.
I favor no sort of alliance or negotiation with England. God will favor the righteous, we need only prove not just in words, but in deeds, that we are so. Talks of a crusade against the Moors may serve such a purpose, but the Kaiser's men at our doorstep make that a difficult proposition. But consider if you will that we have a church under construction in Paris and a small church in Marseilles. This will raise our standing in Rome. We can improve it further still by building other signs of our faith. The construction of a chapel in Toulouse, a small chapel in Metz and similar structures in other places would serve this purpose and not be financially crippling.
If we were to follow this path, surely the Pope would see we are true to our faith, so much so that he might countenance an act against the English should they continue warring on the Scots, or should our enemy to the east be excommunicated, we might be favored with an opportunity to call for a crusade in their lands increasing our standing still further compared to England.
Finally we should consider pulling back our troops in the east back to invite the Kaiser to bring damnation upon his people by laying siege to a town or two. All of what I suggest goes to one point, to demonstrate to God and the Holy See that our course is a rightous one. The question I put before you now is will my lords support such a course?"
Simon rises and bows towards the King.
As Captain of the Order of the Fleur de Lys I want to express the gratitude felt by me and my Brother Knights to you, for granting us a separate command. We will keep a close eye on the German border and keep our new posessions safe. If the Baron of Frankfurt needs specific help don't hesitate to ask for it. We will stay in the area and attack any German that dares put his feet on our land!
Lord Saint-Amand,Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightnDay
It pleases me to hear you say that. I suggested just such a move a day or so hence but your agreement to such a move now makes it much more possible.