Anybody enjoying Game of Thrones? (HBO TV series)

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Originally Posted by Spoonska

I think Hodor doesn't get enough credit. Perhaps it's just among my friends, but I was talking about GoT Saturday night, and everyone was kind of making fun of his character As if he was a joke. Albeit he is a little slow, and can only say one word; but every time he delivers his "Hodor" it's done with perfection. He says everything in that "Hodor". It was even echoed last night with Osha.

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Hodor is the third head of the dragon. Aemon and Ned conspired to move him to Winterfell to hide him from Robert, and told him to play the simpleton. One day show his true awesomeness. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Spoonska

I thought it was top notch for the most part

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Absolutely! Loved particularly the exchange between Tyrion and his whatshisname :laugh4:
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Alright, time for some baseless speculation:

Will episode 9 be full of weddings? Edmure and Roslin, Tyrion and Sansa, Cersei and Loras, Joffrey and Margaery, Littlefinger and Lysa. We have a backlog, may as well get it all done at once!

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I'm fairly certain Joff/Marg will be early next season, the timing of the story just isn't there yet. Shae was hella pissed at Tyrion though. :yes:

I imagine Littlefinger's wedding will be next season as well. The freaky weirdo relationship those two have will need some setup, they haven't had a scene together yet all series.

Not exactly sure what they have planned for Cersei/Loras. In the books Loras is wearing the white at this point, I'm guessing Cersei kills him off to get out of it, but surprises are welcome. Might be something juicy to prep the Cersei/Marg feud coming.

I'm wondering if they do interleaved wedding scenes with the Tyrion/Sansa and Edmure/Roslin ceremonies. Contrasts for effect.

Talisa's pregnant.

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She's toast at the RW. Jeyne escaped because she was minus a Stark child, but since the Westerlings were written out of the show I think Talisa is dead girl walking. Shame, nice butt.

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no way the will let cercei kill of loras lol XD what kind of suggestion is that haha

he will probably take the white, and there wont be a wedding between them.

According to the synopsis of the coming episodes;
Tyrion and Sansa will tie the knot in the next one.

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We'll also meet Coldhands next episode

And the 9th episode is going to feature the Red wedding, most probably as the climatic scene.
As far as Littlefinger and Lysa are concerned.

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I agree it's probably going to happen sometime next season, after Joffery's wedding and demise. He has to take Sansa with him.

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Originally Posted by drone

Alright, time for some baseless speculation:

Will episode 9 be full of weddings? Edmure and Roslin, Tyrion and Sansa, Cersei and Loras, Joffrey and Margaery, Littlefinger and Lysa. We have a backlog, may as well get it all done at once!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm fairly certain Joff/Marg will be early next season, the timing of the story just isn't there yet. Shae was hella pissed at Tyrion though. :yes:

I imagine Littlefinger's wedding will be next season as well. The freaky weirdo relationship those two have will need some setup, they haven't had a scene together yet all series.

Not exactly sure what they have planned for Cersei/Loras. In the books Loras is wearing the white at this point, I'm guessing Cersei kills him off to get out of it, but surprises are welcome. Might be something juicy to prep the Cersei/Marg feud coming.

I'm wondering if they do interleaved wedding scenes with the Tyrion/Sansa and Edmure/Roslin ceremonies. Contrasts for effect.

Talisa's pregnant.

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She's toast at the RW. Jeyne escaped because she was minus a Stark child, but since the Westerlings were written out of the show I think Talisa is dead girl walking. Shame, nice butt.

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The PW might be episode 8, judging from the preview. It would be cool if they wrote the two weddings on the same episode though. GRRM wrote one more scene for this season, which involves Littlefinger and Lysa. Although it's possible they use it on the fourth season premiere.

About Talisa, am I the only one who thinks she's a spy? The way she replied when Robb asked her what she was writing, the fact that it was in a language Tywin happens to know, and just Tywin's recent dismissal of Robb as a threat? If this isn't true, I see Blackfish saving her along with a few other people from the RW.

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Originally Posted by Octoud

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The PW might be episode 8, judging from the preview. It would be cool if they wrote the two weddings on the same episode though. GRRM wrote one more scene for this season, which involves Littlefinger and Lysa. Although it's possible they use it on the fourth season premiere.

About Talisa, am I the only one who thinks she's a spy? The way she replied when Robb asked her what she was writing, the fact that it was in a language Tywin happens to know, and just Tywin's recent dismissal of Robb as a threat? If this isn't true, I see Blackfish saving her along with a few other people from the RW.

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you are probably right and its to be a bit closer to the books as well were it was hinted that the wedding between westerling and robb was orchestrated by tywin

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Originally Posted by Octoud

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The PW might be episode 8, judging from the preview. It would be cool if they wrote the two weddings on the same episode though. GRRM wrote one more scene for this season, which involves Littlefinger and Lysa. Although it's possible they use it on the fourth season premiere.

About Talisa, am I the only one who thinks she's a spy? The way she replied when Robb asked her what she was writing, the fact that it was in a language Tywin happens to know, and just Tywin's recent dismissal of Robb as a threat? If this isn't true, I see Blackfish saving her along with a few other people from the RW.

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The reason I think the RW is ep9, the episode name is "The Rains of Castamere".

It's possible Talisa is a spy sent in by Tywin. But if she really is pregnant, she's toast.

Good episode tonight, really enjoyed Tyrions spat with Joff and his dad- "and now my watch begins." Priceless.

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And our favorite pair of boobs made a long awaited appearance, so that was nice.

I dont know how Im going to wait for the next episode in 2 weeks.

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As someone who read the books and know whats going to happen, I really should record the reaction of my friends who didnt read the books when they get to the RW.

All the wedding and post wedding party scenes were good. Specially Olenna Tyrell figuring out the relations and Tywin talking to Tyrion about performance issues. :laugh:
Also this is probably the first time I actually found a scene with Samwell Tarly interesting.

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Were the ravens cawing to summon the other to where Sam and Gilly were? Since Bran has not yet crossed beyond the wall, we can assume that Bryden Rivers is controlling the ravens. If both these things are true then that means he is in league with the Others and Bran too will actually be helping them later on. Which means Melisandre's vision of a, “wooden face, corpse white” with a thousand red eyes, accompanied by a boy with a wolf’s face, who she believes is a servant of the Great Other is accurate. So many questions. :on_crazymad:

Well, that was intense.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Well, that was intense.

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Yeah that was pretty brutal. The silent credits were an excellent touch.

...Damn...

Unfortunately I already knew due to accidentally seeing spoilers on a GoT world map. But, still R.R. Martin is a sadist. =(

Very graphic.

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Specially how they kill Talisa.

And I was wrong. This is a lot worse than when Ned Stark loses his head.
And where the hell was Greatjon Umber!

Jesus Christ.

I'm gonna throw up

Pure win:
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

What they don't get is that next weeks will be better. If it is what I think it is.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

What they don't get is that next weeks will be better. If it is what I think it is.

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I'm not quite as sure anymore about whether they'll show that next week or not. I expected that to be the season-ender and a nice cliffhanger, but I saw nothing in the previews that looked like even one shot from the scene in question. It still seems like the logical point at which to end this season, but I expected to see at least one random shot in the preview of what should be a relatively long segment if that event is to actually occur next episode.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I'm not quite as sure anymore about whether they'll show that next week or not. I expected that to be the season-ender and a nice cliffhanger, but I saw nothing in the previews that looked like even one shot from the scene in question. It still seems like the logical point at which to end this season, but I expected to see at least one random shot in the preview of what should be a relatively long segment if that event is to actually occur next episode.

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True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

I think next season will have the rest of the weddings, burnings, horn blowing and perhaps even get to see some Dorne action.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Pure win:
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

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One of my favorite tweets...
"Game of Thrones = mind bottling"
Mind. Bottling. Couldn't agree more. :laugh4:

Just for those who didn't realise it at first... that song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmRWVZ5ny0I

That song was too fitting for the occasion.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

I think next season will have the rest of the weddings, burnings, horn blowing and perhaps even get to see some Dorne action.

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If Jamie gets back next episode

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How will they handle Joffery's wedding and Tyrion's arrest.....

Also, does anyone else notice that Daario Naharis commands the Second Sons in the TV series.
So they seem to have cut out Brown Ben Plumm.

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Does this mean that Daario will betray Danaerys in the show? And where will Tyrion end up....?

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

If Jamie gets back next episode

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How will they handle Joffery's wedding and Tyrion's arrest.....

Also, does anyone else notice that Daario Naharis commands the Second Sons in the TV series.
So they seem to have cut out Brown Ben Plumm.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Does this mean that Daario will betray Danaerys in the show? And where will Tyrion end up....?

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Season 3 was only the first half of the Storm of Swords book. Joffs wedding will be in season 4.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Season 3 was only the first half of the Storm of Swords book. Joffs wedding will be in season 4.

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Hah, I keep forgetting what is in what book.

It's too soon for Joffrey's wedding. I figured the Yunkai attack would be next week, but they handwaved that so I don't really know how they are going to end the season. I guess Jon Snow at Castle Black, Coldhands, plus some Lannister gloating and other filler. :shrug:

Michelle Fairley did a wonderful job as it all unravelled before her. Roose Bolton shows his true colors. Blackfish takes an oppurtune moment to urinate. Ygritte as a woman scorned. Rickon speaks!

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the next two seasons.

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They will be introducing a lot of new characters (Dorne, Iron Isles threads) to replace the ones being killed off. The actors better be chosen wisely, as they will need to replace main players that viewers got very attached to. Personally, I don't have a clue how they are going to handle A Feast For Crows, there is a lot of filler that doesn't stand up to the epicness of the first 3 books.

I have a feeling that they are going to abbreviate AFFC as it is quite boring, possibly integrate it with ADWD. Though GRRM better get to finishing book 6, he only has another 2-3 years before the show outpaces the books, and that would present a big problem.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

I have a feeling that they are going to abbreviate AFFC as it is quite boring, possibly integrate it with ADWD.

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They have to integrate them, there's no other possibility. They can't just spend an entire season showing only half the cast, then go back and do the other half the next season. It worked poorly enough in book form, it would be a disaster on television.

For me this is proof that Catelyn is even more stupid.

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First freeing up Jamie. Now not throwing the knive at the bad guy when she had the chance.

She's a noblewoman, not a ninja.

She could have tried.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

She's retarded, not a ninja.

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fixed.

It wouldn't have made any difference. She and Robb would still be dead, and Walder Frey has many sons.

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Besides, I haven't done the math but freeing Jaime is probably a net positive for her when everything plays out. Jaime would have been either killed by the Karstarks, or freed after the wedding with both hands and no soul-searching. Frey was going to get his revenge, one way or another, the only wildcard being what role the Karstark men would play.

Rains of Castamere, now on the list of songs nobody wants to hear at a wedding. ~D

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Originally Posted by rickinator9

For me this is proof that Catelyn is even more stupid.

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First freeing up Jamie. Now not throwing the knive at the bad guy when she had the chance.

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Freeing Jaime was a good thing. Otherwise he would have never lost his hand and wouldnt have, as Drone said, grown a conscience.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Freeing Jaime was a good thing. Otherwise he would have never lost his hand and wouldnt have, as Drone said, grown a conscience.

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But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

This, for me, was where it fell off a cliff - I struggled on for two more books before I gave up, but it just got worse.

My major problem with GRRM is that although his characters do have depth he kills them off, or has them act against character, in service to his over-arching plot.

we're repeatedly told how wise Catelyn is, but she repeatedly acts like a munchkin on acid - even insanity doesn't cover some of her actions - and her relationship with Jon simply isn't credible.

Ned's fate in the first book is dramatic and fitting, even if it comes about because he acts against character, but the further in you go the more jarring the divide between character path and action becomes.

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In book one, Ned's character up to Robert's death dictates he tell Robert the truth, and then deal with the fallout and prevent Robert having the Lion bastards killed. This is exactly how Ned has operated throughout the book - do the honourable thing, do the next honourable thing. But in the last few chapters Ned SUDDENLY decides to lie to his friend and king, forge his will, and try to bribe the watch. He winds up dead.

You could write that one example off as a single man cracking, but it is repeated over and over, and more crudely each time. By the time we get to Prince Oberon's death and Tyrian exile it's less character driving plot and more contrivance. Even Rob's death is a precise confluence of convenient circumstances that beggars even a devout man's belief in providence. The producers must agree, because they wrote the Westerlings out - which will be interesting given that I suspect GRRM wasn't done putting Jaine through the wringer.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

She's a noblewoman, not a ninja.

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Oda Nobunaga: "What's the difference?"

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

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Theoretically yes, but who is to say that Karstark wouldnt have killed Jaime himself? We dont know. But you are definitely correct that the Red Wedding had a much lower chance of it occurring had Jamie stayed lock up.

Jaime was going to die the night Catelyn sent him off with Brienne, he had just killed Rickard's son in an escape attempt. Rickard was already nuts, having already lost 2(?) sons to the Kingslayer in the battle. The Karstarks would have killed him, and Robb would have had to have taken Rickard's head that much sooner. Robb was stuck either way, and Catelyn just wanted her daughters back alive.

Karstark said it best, "You lost the war the day you married her". With the Freys on their side, they would have had the manpower and free movement across the riverlands.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

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Would he? I think he would have just gone nuts on jamie instead of the two kids. Rob would have executed karstark for that just as easily so there'd be the same net result, just minus Jamie.

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we're repeatedly told how wise Catelyn is, but she repeatedly acts like a munchkin on acid - even insanity doesn't cover some of her actions - and her relationship with Jon simply isn't credible.

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Personally I take a different tack, she is normally quite wise and this was so before the events of the books, but after brandons fall she starts going nuts and throughout the series she goes from: having enough wisdom to make the right decisions regularly, to: having enough to not go bug-splat insane.
I half suspect a less wise person would have become a gibbering wreck after what she went through, that she became mistake prone actually makes me think she got off light.

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You could write that one example off as a single man cracking, but it is repeated over and over, and more crudely each time. By the time we get to Prince Oberon's death and Tyrian exile it's less character driving plot and more contrivance. Even Rob's death is a precise confluence of convenient circumstances that beggars even a devout man's belief in providence.

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Well, yeah, in moments of high emotion an stress people crack, when they crack they act out of character and/or make mistakes and in the game of thrones unless someone's covering for you those mistakes get you killed.

I've never ever seen so much rage directed at a TV show ever, half of the stuff on Twitter and Facebook is about Game of Thrones.

people have issues.

A slightly deranged man recently said, "If you thought this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention!" :yes:

Martin said that he was going to go somewhere without internet for a week after this episode.

Finally got around watching the episode and I hummed the rains with glee throughout the whole scene ^^

Btw people's reactions are priceless :P
Now I'm actually starting to think, that when the producers said they wanted to do the serie up to this point at least, they probably meant that in the aftermath the audience would just rage quit watching it XDDDDDD

Loved the last episode... didn't see that coming at all...

Incredible.

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Originally Posted by drone

Jaime was going to die the night Catelyn sent him off with Brienne, he had just killed Rickard's son in an escape attempt. Rickard was already nuts, having already lost 2(?) sons to the Kingslayer in the battle. The Karstarks would have killed him, and Robb would have had to have taken Rickard's head that much sooner. Robb was stuck either way, and Catelyn just wanted her daughters back alive.

Karstark said it best, "You lost the war the day you married her". With the Freys on their side, they would have had the manpower and free movement across the riverlands.

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I happen to dissagree.

Rob lost the War when he listened to Catelyn and gave Bolton command of the Foot rather than the Greatjohn.

The Greatjon was loyal - Bolton was a known sado-massicist and frankly, it makes no sense that his family still hold the Dreadfort, given that one of his ancestors apparently flayed a Stark. Rob's instinct to give the command to the Greatjohn and keep Bolton with him was correct. The Foot was always going to lead, so what was required of them was a berserk charge and then a commander capable of holding them together afterwards through sheer force of will.

Remember, Bolton was undermining Rob long before the Red Wedding, wasting troops, ceding ground, overstretching.

Remember, Catelyn was also the one who agreed that, frankly, ludicrous bargain with the Freys. Walder Frey had no right to expect the KING to marry one of his daughters during a war, or to pledge to one. Either Catelyn herself, and Sansa, should have been apple inducement, or Edmure. Again, Catelyn's advice to take the deal was wrong. If Rob had refused and offered less, Frey would have taken it. Given their propensity to breed Walder Frey would have been able to calculate that being Uncle to the next King would have put his line more than close enough to the throne to seize it after the War.

It was also Catelyn who caused Jon to the be sent to the Watch, depriving Rob of a capable Herald and reliable bodyguard, even a titular Commander to replace Bolton.

The only instance where Catelyn was correct was regarding Theon, but even there a lack of her malign influence might have made Theon loyal enough to refuse his father - something he clearly did consider.

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Remember, Catelyn was also the one who agreed that, frankly, ludicrous bargain with the Freys.

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What was the alternative? The Freys had him over a barrel, and if Robb either kept it in his pants or just ditched Jeyne (or really, even kept her as a mistress) it would've been fine. Walder could've comfortably sat out the war if he didn't feel like haggling, and marrying one of his daughters isn't that crazy. Although they are not the head family in the Riverlands, they basically match the Tullys in strength.

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It was also Catelyn who caused Jon to the be sent to the Watch,

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lolwut

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but even there a lack of her malign influence might have made Theon loyal enough to refuse his father - something he clearly did consider.

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Jeez did Catelyn do 9/11 too?

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

What was the alternative? The Freys had him over a barrel, and if Robb either kept it in his pants or just ditched Jeyne (or really, even kept her as a mistress) it would've been fine. Walder could've comfortably sat out the war if he didn't feel like haggling, and marrying one of his daughters isn't that crazy. Although they are not the head family in the Riverlands, they basically match the Tullys in strength.

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Rob could have laid siege to the Twins.

Contrary to Catelyn's view, Frey did not hold all the cards.

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lolwut

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Ned wanted to leave Jon at Winterfell, Catelyn refused to have him and Ned couldn't take him to King's Landing - the original plan was to set Jon up with a Holdfast on the New Gift, which had been abandoned by the Watch. It's mentioned in one of the later books.

Remember, Catelyn can't stand Jon, she hates him, she's always hated him. The little bit about her sitting up with him when he had a fever isn't in the books - she's about three times the bitch she is in the series.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Rob could have laid siege to the Twins.

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Due to the way that the castles are on both sides of the river, Robb would've needed to cross the river somewhere else to conduct a successful siege - which would defeat the point of the whole operation. He needed to get across in a timely fashion to destroy one of the Lannister armies before it met up with the other. Besieging the towers or just trying to find another crossing would make it impossible to do that.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Due to the way that the castles are on both sides of the river, Robb would've needed to cross the river somewhere else to conduct a successful siege - which would defeat the point of the whole operation. He needed to get across in a timely fashion to destroy one of the Lannister armies before it met up with the other. Besieging the towers or just trying to find another crossing would make it impossible to do that.

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Only true if you define "successful" as "reduction of the stronghold" - in this case investment of one side would close the crossing, depriving the Freys of their primary source of income and means to pay their army. Walder would then be in a precarious position because he has created his own Byzantine court - he keeps it in line by picking the winning side.

It's not a question of Rob being able to beat him - it's a question of him being able to make life more unpleasant than Walder can tolerate.

Agreeing to put all your dynastic eggs in one basket is, strategically speaking, too much for an army and a river crossing. Rob would have nothing left to offer, say, the Tyrells or the Ironborn.

there is no singular reason why robb was doomed.

there were a few

-he gave slight to the gods by breaking his vows > freys turned sides
-he got betrayed by theon and lost the north and more importantly his heirs
-he did not deal with the karstark/jaime/catelyn matter appropriately


all these things together, he was losing the war because his men were dwindling, he could not strike at tywin because Edmure tried to be a hero, so bolton added up 1+1 and decided it was time to turn cloaks. he wouldnt have if the North was winning. The freys are just crazy but I doubt he would have killed Robb if he didnt realise that the boy was lost.

Robb was doomed because he was not a main character to the long-term story arc. GRRM's trick was making us think he was, just like he did with Ned. The true main characters are immune to death until the final book. Namely:

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Tyrion
Jon (Does anyone seriously believe he's dead?)
Dany
Bran

yes... ofcourse, if you go meta like that sure. you studied literature for sure no? XD

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

yes... ofcourse, if you go meta like that sure. you studied literature for sure no? XD

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Nope, history. I just find it a bit odd to argue about what a fictitious character could have done differently to change their fate.

I've been reading the book series since they launched. Most fantasy series start with the orphan raised by a relative who teaches them some great tricks or they inherit a magic item ie Luke Skywalker raised by his uncle, Frodo is also adopted, as is Rand al'Thor and many more.

All GRRM has done has started at the pre-orphaning stage for some of the characters. Some are already orphans being raised by uncles. Some like the mother of dragons are more along those archetypes.

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Jon Snow is in all likelihood Ned's sisters child. It does not make sense for a poor fisher woman to give gold to look after a noblemans bastard. So either he is a heir to the Dragons or the Deers.

My wife started reading the books after a friend of hers started raving about the TV series. Our new born daughter was named after one of the characters. I'll let you guess which one at your leisure.

Spoilers:

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Jon Snow isn't dead, Azor Azhai and all that. Probably Rhaegar and Lyanna's child.

OK, best Red Wedding reaction video on the web (link, not embedded due to scene's bloody throat slashing. so umm, yeah, some violence/gore)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6AjgR7D3yg

Bravo! :applause:

Got linked this on facebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

My wife started reading the books after a friend of hers started raving about the TV series. Our new born daughter was named after one of the characters. I'll let you guess which one at your leisure.

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Arya?

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

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Got it right :thumbsup:

So season finale....
Not big on action, but lot of big decisions to set the story for the next season. Tywin and Tyrion were awesome as usual.

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For once I regret Tywin gets killed. I'll miss watching him stare people into submission

Next Arya and the Hound. Full of win.
And it all ends with Dany the rockstar :clown:

The Ramsay Bolton scene was hilarious. "You think I'm some sort of savage?" :laugh4: As was Tywin, sending Joffrey to bed without supper. And did anyone else notice the gasps from the ladies when Podrick went to summon Tyrion to the Small Council? His reputation precedes him!

So no big reveals, mainly just clean up and character positioning, but I think they had fun with it.

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I guess next season gets us Coldhands, Stoneheart, and Oberyn. The Littlefinger and Lysa love story should be amusing, we get Joffrey's wedding, the war at the Wall, and Dany at Meereen. I'm thinking they might need to go a little past A Storm of Swords for next season, there might not be enough good stuff left to cover 10 episodes.

Compared to The Walking Dead finale; Game of Thrones gets a Bajillion/10

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Arya?

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obviously Eddard.

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Arya?

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Correct.

I LOVE this show. One of the best shows on TV today in my opinion.


What do you guys think of Game of Thrones .vs LoTR however?

In terms of books vs books, tv show vs movies, or just general lore vs lore?

TV show .vs. movies and the lore .vs. lore.

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Originally Posted by drone

The Ramsay Bolton scene was hilarious. "You think I'm some sort of savage?" :laugh4: As was Tywin, sending Joffrey to bed without supper. And did anyone else notice the gasps from the ladies when Podrick went to summon Tyrion to the Small Council? His reputation precedes him!

So no big reveals, mainly just clean up and character positioning, but I think they had fun with it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I guess next season gets us Coldhands, Stoneheart, and Oberyn. The Littlefinger and Lysa love story should be amusing, we get Joffrey's wedding, the war at the Wall, and Dany at Meereen. I'm thinking they might need to go a little past A Storm of Swords for next season, there might not be enough good stuff left to cover 10 episodes.

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I think the only hands will we see will be Tywin.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Correct.

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damn :S i had all my money on Neddard :S

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Originally Posted by FoxLeLay

TV show .vs. movies and the lore .vs. lore.

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in its scope i think LotR (if you include Silmarillion and the Hobbit) is unprecedented. But it is a pretty straight black and white story of good and evil, in that sense Got/SoIaF appeals to me more because alot of times you get new info that can completely change your view of a character. It is more grey. What I like about both is that in magic is pretty much relegated to the background and is of secondary importance (more so in GoT/SoIaF, but even in LotR, Gandalf the mighty wizard often fights with his sword). All in all, i'd say that LotR is the better/bigger Epic, while GoT/SoIaF is the better intrigue/thriller. Im a fan of both.

As for the movies/series, I'd rule more clearly in favor of the LotR movies, almost completely because of the awesome and huge battlescenes in 2 and 3. But for a series GoT is awesome!

GoT has no lore to speak of. It has some 'recent-history', but compared to LotR, the mythos is as good as non-existent and what is there is an unexplained, confusing wreck. At least up until now.
Hopefully with the winding up of the stories some of the mysteries will be cleared up.

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

GoT has no lore to speak of. It has some 'recent-history', but compared to LotR, the mythos is as good as non-existent and what is there is an unexplained, confusing wreck. At least up until now.
Hopefully with the winding up of the stories some of the mysteries will be cleared up.

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If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

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I dont know if I would say a lot more lore, but definitely comparable. And of course the TV show doesnt go into a lot of lore, they simply dont have time for that as they already have to fit in the current event stuff.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

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OK, as far as I know GoT lore is limited to -
First men come and kill Children of the Forest who spent their time battling giants.
The Others come and kill both the First men and Children of the Forest.
Some unknown hero either from Asshai or Westros somehow manages to kill others. Variations of the legend involve the sword Lightbringer.
Andals come and subjugate first men.
Meanwhile on the other side of the world the Ghiscari Empire is doing something. Then something is happening in Valariya. Ghiscari and Valariya keep fighting. Somewhere in between the Faceless Men begin their work in the tunnels of Valariya.
Ghiscari empire falls. Doom come to Valariya. (What the 'Doom' is is never explained).
Aegon subjugates the Andals and unites the seven kingdoms.

Add to this a few odd tales pertaining to the various great houses about Brandon the Builder and whichever Lannister lost the Valariyan sword Brightroar et cetra and some vague prophesies about the Prince that was promised, Azor Azhai, the Old Gods and R'hllor and that's basically the extent of GoT lore.
Tolkien on the other hand has an entire alternate mythology in his books. Maybe when GRRM finishes the entire story and he explains everything about the Great Other and such similar mysteries he'll have something comparable, but until then everything is too much of a mess.

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

the Prince that was promised

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Ser Pounce, the Puss that was Promised.

Isn't Cersei's generally the puss that gets promised?

anyone noticed how arya killed the frey soldier? its how she killed the guard at harrenhal in the books :P

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

Add to this a few odd tales pertaining to the various great houses about Brandon the Builder and whichever Lannister lost the Valariyan sword Brightroar et cetra and some vague prophesies about the Prince that was promised, Azor Azhai, the Old Gods and R'hllor and that's basically the extent of GoT lore.
Tolkien on the other hand has an entire alternate mythology in his books. Maybe when GRRM finishes the entire story and he explains everything about the Great Other and such similar mysteries he'll have something comparable, but until then everything is too much of a mess.

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There is an unbelievable amount of depth to the lore and history of the Ice and Fire universe over the previous 500 years or so; pretty much everything since the Targaryian invasion of Westros. The amount of detail on the houses, their histories, and their actions is very very deep. I am including the Dunk & Egg novellas as part of this lore, btw. You are correct that all of the really old stuff is very vague, but I believe that is intentional. That stuff has actively been forgotten by most people living. With the exceptions of some northmen, people in Westros actively believe that all that stuff is myth and legend. Hell, when the books start magic itself is popularly thought to be a myth as well because it had been gone for so long. Tolkein created a world in which immense magical beings live for eons and never forget anything. Martin created a world populated almost exclusively by humans, and humans die quickly and forget easily. Just look at the library at Castle Black. That right there is a storehouse of massive amounts of knowledge about the history of Westros, but no one cares about it. That's why you don't hear much about the Andals or the First Men. People living in the Ice and Fire universe simply don't care, at least not yet. That's not a fault of the writer, that's intentional and it's one of the things that helps to build the world. If you want to compare the Ice and Fire lore to Middle Earth lore, pretend that all of your Middle Earth lore has to be learned from the Hobbits.

In any case, I far more enjoy Martin's very rich recent history than Tolkein's amorphous irrelevant legends. The history that Martin gives us is detailed, explains how the various characters in the world got to where they are now, why alliances exist, and why certain place names are significant. Having read the entire Ice and Fire series, you can look at a map of Westros and know something interesting about pretty much every little town and castle on the map. The same cannot be said for Middle Earth.

thats not really true either, if you read the hobbit and silmarrilion you can do pretty much the same for middle earth, but as you say it is a different approach chosen by each writer. martin has his lore become available through the eyes of the humans living in Westeros, while Tolkien made the lore and legends available as stories in themself which you can read about in the appendix or in other books.