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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
I have just installed RTW, Alexander, and EB. In that order.
I've tested my Romani saved game's scroll speed with normal script and with a modified version of the EBBs script on Alexander.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96967
Alexander has a much smoother scroll in comparison, and the AI turn times, at the beginning with so many factions and stuff going on, is very noticeable on the new cut down EB background script. A drastic difference really.
As for regular Alexander speed increases with the normal 1.0 background script, I only saw a little of that. Course, I haven't been playing at EB's normal speed for awhile, so Alex would still seem very slow to me in comparison.
Btw, Maksimus, I was wondering whether the downloaded links for the Alexander conversion on your first post here contains the newest 1.0 permanent fixes bovi put up?
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
Everytime time Bovi makes a move I am on it :laugh4:
Last update that is included in ''the'' download links are ''Script fixes - Updated 2007-12-14''
That means I updated the download links on 15-12-2007 as you can see:curtain:
And I don't know what kind of ''modified version of the EBBs script'' you use or what is your PC coniguration :shrug:
Still, the point is, if you have a low-end PC (that means less then 2gigs of RAM and CPU that is not 64bit and some mainboard that is 'older') - you wont notice anything in term's of game speed :no:
Still, with a more powerfull machine - you get proportionaly 1,3 or 1,5 times faster EB on ALX.exe
It's just that test's are of no value if I test it on my PC - so I can't bring fact's here for your's or other's Personal Computer's :no:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
None.
I don't play 'EB victory conditions' paths - they are not relevant for my gameplay as it is - I tend 'NOT' to role-play my faction. The ancient war's were not a scenario you had to follow so I don't like role-playing:no:
But If you want to see some of my campaign's you should look on these two thread's
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94993
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=93151&page=5
Btw, I play and mod RTW for year's now, so I don't need to win with ALL or ANY faction's and then see what to do or what could be done better (even EB team doesn't do that.. they would never have so many of EBBS and other bugs if they have 'achived victory conditions' for all faction's before they set download links for EB 10) :coffeenews:
And you can adress me as - друг
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
And you can adress me as - друг
:2thumbsup: I appreciate that :yes:
Maksimus, my opinion is that EB differs greatly from other mods. Even the best of the rest (I mean RTR) however good it is, besides graphics and unit textures is currently on different level.
Me thinks EB is a very balanced mod with a good set of rules and principles that need minor and very careful adjustment. And it seems that you, my friend, just didn't had enough time to feel EB full richness.
That is why I ask you to take your time and without further rush enjoy it. It is a very fragile structure and by implementing zillion of changes immediately there is a chance that we could ruin it all (I was completely surprised, BTW, to see your latest idea of raising mercs experience by one. Where did that came from, I wonder? And how this should improve the mod? And the main question: why are you so sure that current mercs are not good enough?)
Friend, we have all the time in the world to experiment. I'm playing my latest campaign for the last month and I will gladly continue to do so (even though I've already achieved victory conditions) as long as 1.1. is not coming out.
Please, don't rush :yes:
Cheers
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
:2thumbsup: I appreciate that :yes:
Maksimus, my opinion is that EB differs greatly from other mods. Even the best of the rest (I mean RTR) however good it is, besides graphics and unit textures is currently on different level.
Me thinks EB is a very balanced mod with a good set of rules and principles that need minor and very careful adjustment. And it seems that you, my friend, just didn't had enough time to feel EB full richness.
That is why I ask you to take your time and without further rush enjoy it. It is a very fragile structure and by implementing zillion of changes immediately there is a chance that we could ruin it all (I was completely surprised, BTW, to see your latest idea of raising mercs experience by one. Where did that came from, I wonder? And how this should improve the mod? And the main question: why are you so sure that current mercs are not good enough?)
Friend, we have all the time in the world to experiment. I'm playing my latest campaign for the last month and I will gladly continue to do so (even though I've already achieved victory conditions) as long as 1.1. is not coming out.
Please, don't rush :yes:
Cheers
The first time 'someone' (and me also in couple of threads) raised the question's of 'why' mercs don't have at least +1 experience due to their professional soldier service (very rare in the ancient world) - the first one that said 'YES' to that was Bovi! One EB team member, then there was also some other EB members that said 'it could be an option'. But then, only Foot came along and said 'We wont do that because it imbalance's the game'
And if you have a situation where you can recruit your 'green' unit's that can have +2 experience and +2 or +4 morale bonuses somewhere - you unbalance the game too.. see? Current mercs are good enough when there are no bonuses for other unit's neither, but if you have a situation that some 'very famous' mercs (like ones Alexander used alot) have no experience bonus - you have one discrimination that aims to make mercs weaker than they were:ballchain:
EB is the best mod for me. He is also very balanced mod with a good set of rules and principles that need very careful adjustment. And you must know that for example (again:curtain: ) City Mod is made and supported by EB team because 'many' EB player's don't agree with 'all' EB vanilla balance:wall:
Anyway's - You know there will be one "AlexanderEBLite" mod (ALEM) that would have minor changes (obviously you and Konny support that)!
And there will also be 'Extended Alexander EB mod' (EAEM) that will have major changes (some that are not in line of EB stream - and this is supported by myself and Lgk.)!
Note that (EAEM) will be support EB player's on any *exe (that means they will work on RTW.exe, BI.exe and ALX.exe based EB games)
These changes that are suggested to take place 'are minor and very careful adjusted'. And they will surely go in ALEM. Let me review it:
1- ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' enabled as tested - This means that most of scripting is not relevant any more - that option is of more importance than ANYONE can imagine - it is so important that I am SURE EB team would support EB on ALX.exe if they could be sure 90% of EB fans have it (but they don't - so it wont happen)
2- ''NightBattleCapable 1'' enabled for couple of faction's (I suggest Stepe, German's and Saba, ok, and Briton's maybe and also Dacia) - that means that one general (or two for Stepe) would have ''NightBattleCapable 1'' added.
This should be in already! I had numerous PM's and question's 'why can't I play at night' - Well! It's because no general is set to use it in ''descr_start.txt'' - and that means you will have to waith to make one general as good as Pyrros so you can actually fight at night (which may take 20 turns).
3- What is that you don't like in ''C_script'' that is modified by barrack's issue by myself so we change it and finish it! This just add's to the gameplay and reality..
4- Adding Lgk's money script that is finished (or also to add Konny's work if it is finished - or make it optional, I think Lgk did not make Win_Condition's )
And this add's to the gamplay too - this script is wonderfull
Now - What could and may not be done in a few days!
5- Adding units at the start that will represent armies that would be there at that time (like more medium infantry) - all in C_script! This is already done by Konny and you I think :shrug:
6- Adding ''DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT'' with +1 expirience to all of them - this is due to gamplay
7- Adding ''export_descr_unit.txt'' that has modified Hit Point's for Horse Archers from 1,1 - 1,3, also that goes for Elephant's to 1,4 and to phalanx from 1,1-1,3 (and SShields 1,4) - This will only affect autocalculations - This will be in EB 11 for Horse Archers and maybe some other unit's
8- Originaly posted by LGK: '' Also with these HA improvements steppe factions personalities have to be changed back to "genghis". Well, maybe "henry" is still acceptable for Pahlava... but afaik even late settled parthians never used much infantry anyway, so same "genghis" can suit them better. Too bad we can't change personalities mid-game ''. And this i practical solution
These are mostly minor changes most of the player's wont notice at all (exept those that read this thread)...
And, you see,.. All mod's in development at the start make 'basic rules and figures' (like ones 'the cavalry was not as powerfull as in RTW vanilla' so they are very underpowered.. or Gaeste with 2Hit points ... or Elephant's that can be killed by a SINGLE peltst unit!).. that is how it is
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
I agree with MiniMe that less changes is better, as long as they are enough. Even more, anything new should be tested one at a time. About balance - i'd like to see faction progression as historical as possible and all factions surviving at least until about 200 bce... that is, if human player also follows history, otherwise AI factions should be strong enough to defend themselves.
Now to latest Maksimus arguments:
1. I'm still uneasy about using ai_not_attack_faction option because it looks like cheating and in ideal case needs another good portion of (already bloated) scripting. Methinks we should strive to get good result (AI progression) without using this option, and then implement it to have perfect result.
2. I suggest giving this trait to older generals only (most likely a faction leader), otherwise clever human will enjoy obvious advantage far too long in early game.
3. Not sure i understand that sentence... :) But i like extensive use of C_script in any case. :)
4. What you mean? Optional what? Konny's script is based on wrong ideas imo (sorry, konny) and can actually cause problems in the long run; and win_conditions are absolutely unrelated to any money scripting.
5. Ok, methinks (taking tougher alex rebels into account) it won't speed early ahistorical expansion much.
6. No big deal, let's try it.
7. Exact values are to be chosen and tested carefully! It's better to start conservative imo.
And don't forget that elephants' and chariots' extra hps do have effect on tactical battles as well. Though these units are ridiculously underpowered in EB imo (aggravated by the fact that AI can't use them well). I prefer 6 extra hps for elephants and 2 extra hps for chariots... plus additional bonus like power_charge and very_hardy (elephants only). Something like TWFanatic did. But well, fixing EDU in general is of course another story, there are other units having wrong stats.
8. Other factions personalities are also open field for experiments... but let's limit them to steppe factions only in this beta.
P.S. Hope i will have time to add these fear/hate traits to rebel generals in descr_strat in 2-3 days, so we can see if it does any good as well.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
First I want to make one announcement ! ''RTR team'' leader ''MarcusCorneliusMarcellus'' PM gave 'AlexEBTEema' (us!) the permission to use any ''RTR'' art with a credit to RTR team !
''dvk901'' of ''Roma Surrectum'' will give premission for RS art If we PM ask for a specific thing, .. SPQR is still an option (I did not have any answers yet)
So this is wonderfull to know (for EAEM:curtain: )..
1. I think we should not use ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' option unless it is the last option! But I doubt scripting can help here :no:. I'll give one example:
Egypt almost always wins over AS (and takes Antioh fast which was not the case!), after that he is in AMinor and win's even faster over Pontos (if he is not destroyed by AS until 220bc) and while he is wining over AS (boostinf it's advantage with his 'share' right), Egypt goes to Europe all the way to Crimea and Adriatic Sea! And nothing can stop him unless human plays against him from Greece or Asia Minor.
Now, I have tested 2 Casse 'end-turn' campaigns and I am 80% sure that no scripting can help if we have clear ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' option enabled:shrug:
So these are my conclusion's that have been tested and posted 'HERE' as you had the chance to see it.
If we don't use ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' there will be more 'scripting' that would probably slow the game more and will never bring as clear results ad ''ai option'' does :shrug: - that is my opinion
I propose the following!
Note: have in mind that ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' reflect's only 'onesided' - that means if Pontos are not allowed to attack Armenia (while Armenia can attack Pontos), Pontos will fight and destroy Armenia if she attack's after some time ! So by adding ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' to Pontos aimed at Armenia - we only prolong peace ! We don't cheat :no: , Armenia will eventualy attack Pontos in the future - but Pontos will focus it's power on Asia Minor and Greece only (until Armenia hit's - only then he will fight - I have tested this alot) - which was the case in history :san_wink:
Note2:I have already tested the 'scripting' you can se down and It is very very very very nice.. I am amaized actually - the reasults are one thing no one could imagine :no: - it solves so much that the script is not needed in 50% of the cases:wall:
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### romans_brutii - Baktria #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction romans_brutii, trader smith
ai_do_not_attack_faction pontus, parthia
This is set because Baktria is very often in the stepe - and it should be in AS territory and India - when this is set Pahlava and Saka Rauka can attack Baktria first and only then Baktria will move into the stepe's (but before this happens - and it wont happen fast - Baktria heads up to India and AS!
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### greek_cities - Koinon Hellenon #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction greek_cities, balanced smith
ai_do_not_attack_faction thrace
KH always beats Makedonia (if sometimes not only so fast in Pella) even with LGK's script! And this way - KH expansion is slower! ... It is amazing how KH stops in expansion to Epeiros that may be fighting hard in Italy. This way! - KH heads up to AsiaMinor and there KH can be suppressed. So, we leave Epeiros (that is much weaker oposing to KH) the ability to attack KH when he has his strenghts! After that KH will fight - but if it is in AMinor it can not win so fast - So we prolong the faction's life even more by this and in the mean time we enable Epeiros to stay a bit longer in Italy:grin:
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### romans_scipii - Hayasdan #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction romans_scipii, fortified henry
ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_julii
Armenia is set (by my opinion) not to attack AS because that makes it's life much longer, it makes AS concentrate on Aegypt and it makes Armenia spread in the Rebel neighborhood.. By this way - Armenia wait's Egypt to win over AS (while Egypt will not attack Armenia first) and then and only when Armenia becomes regional power - it wil attack Egypt (by this it will slow down much of Egypt).. the same goes for Pontos!
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### britons - Casse #########not that important
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction britons, trader mao
ai_do_not_attack_faction gauls, scythia
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### carthage - Pontos #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction carthage, trader napoleon
ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_julii, romans_scipii
The same goes as for Armenia, Pontos must develop and not being destroyed by AS fast .. and it should not waste it's time in Armenia - this way Pontos reaches as far as BYZANT and PERGAMMUM and only then it attacks Aegypt (that will not attack Pontos first - which make's faction's live more)
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### egypt - Karthadast #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction egypt, sailor caesar
ai_do_not_attack_faction spain
In most of the cases Carthage win's over Spain and fight's in Gaul later - by that It can not focus on Italy and ROME - EVER. By adding this for Spain, Carthage will focus on Sicily adn WILL CROSS TO ITALY, and than reach as far as Rome and then loose :curtain: .. Iberia may attack Carthage anytime, but if it is not attacked by Karthadast - Iberia will spread in Rebel neighborhood most of the time!
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### romans_julii - Arche Seleukideia #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction romans_julii, balanced stalin
ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, parthia, saba, macedon
These various options enables 'base' of long-term development of MOST of the factions! This means that AS will not be the aggressor early in the game, and that IT WILL FOCUS ONLY on EGYPT! Leaving other (mentioned faciton's) in peace untill those factions (later in the game) attack AS - if AS is around! If AS is not alive then those will attack Aegypt as much stronger factions!
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### numidia - Ptolemaioi #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction numidia, religious caesar
ai_do_not_attack_faction pontus, saba, egypt, parthia, romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, thrace, greek_cities
The same as above for AS - Ptolemaioi are so strong that they really need to leave others to develop and wait to be attacked at the first place - AI expansion on ALX.exe is really much faster (and if we count the 'AS share' boost Egypt has - we are screwed:wall: ).. So - In my tests they ALWEYS RULE WITH THESE SETTINGS! It's just they have more probs if one, let us say Pontos Is developed all the way to Byzant (which would only be a dream if he could be attacked by AS and Egypt in the first place) - then Pontos will give up a hell of a resistance before it goes down! This is the same in cases ot any other faction that ARE NO MATCH to Egypt after he takes Anitoh and Babylon! - Think about this
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### seleucide - SPQR (Romani) #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------
faction seleucid, balanced caesar
ai_do_not_attack_faction egypt
This will allow Carthage to make the first move and also it will disable Romanoi to expand more quckly (and If we count that Carthage wont attack Spain and will focus on Italy and North Africa - never on Egypt) we have then, one nice struggle for Italy!
The only vice versa ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' are in cases of AS-Pontos and Armenia-AS, this is really nice in the game - because AS will not spend time and money destroying those two - but will focus on Egypt 'ONLY' and even then Aegypt will win - but much much later in the game :shrug:
For me - this is close to some (not perfect) but very rational and nice result.
2. Giving this trait to older generals is fine:san_grin:
3. C_script should be moded much, I suggest to make Armenian FMember (if AI) much closer to Kotais and with the army that will allow him to take it from the start - that way we enable Armenia to expand more!
4. What can we do about Win_conditions? Konny made some progress there.
5. I know the army composition only for Hellenes and Stepe (from what I know form EB descriptions and some Historic notes fo battles! - Did you know that Pyrros had more quality Makedonians in his Army then Gonatas after he took Pella!).
6. OK ! :boxing:
7. I am for fixing Elephant's and other we find that have to be 'tweaked'. But You should work on that more! I am 90% postitve that HPoints for Phalanx are one of the main reason's KH wins alot and fast! I made Barbarian phalanx have HP 1,1 - to top 1,2, And hellenic phalanxes as from 1,2 - 1,3 (medium) and only 1,4 for Silver Shields. I also made 1,2 and 1,3 For HArchers (1,3 for Heavy Stepe cavalry that have arrows).
I also think that solution for ADDING as GENERAL UNIT to the Largest STONE throwers in Hellenic world is one very nice solution! We know that those persons that guided the siege's (as In Alexanders campaigns and later Demetriases) were so important that most Siege assaults HAD to wait those engineirs to come !
8. Ok, I think GENGHIS for Sarmatia, Pahlava and Saka, and HENRY maybe for Pahlava :shrug:
In 2-3 days I expect you to give me your impresions of EDU, maybe EDB (where I tweaked some bonuses mostly for buildings that did not had any) and Campaign_script.txt ... So I can use it to set up the BETA download link in a week!
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
The main reason why KH is so successful is the fact that their own barracks are scattered everywhere and they don't have to build them from zero, not to mention the fact half the world rebels to their unjust cause. And after marians they also have perfect longpike phalanx unit with very wide AOR and ruthlessly use it in large quantities ;-)
I sympatize LGK idea to add fractional hitpoints to horse archers and even think to imply it to all horsies (light horse-archers and horse scirmishers 1.2 HP, medium horsies 1.4 HP, heavy horsies like hetanks/kinsmen/molossons 1.6 HP, catanks 1.8 HP) but I'm compeletely against adding fractional hitpoints to infantry. Had countless autocalcs of infantry battles recently, everything is fine.
Siege engines were something absolutely uniqe in ancient world, more rare than elephants. Spawning them the way you suggest it will turn EB in vanilla.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
The main reason why KH is so successful is the fact that their own barracks are scattered everywhere and they don't have to build them from zero, not to mention the fact half the world rebels to their cause. And after marians they also have perfect longpike phalanx unit with very wide AOR and ruthlessly use it in large quantities ;-).
If we want to make some serious balance (or somewhat 'some' balance) I suggest that ALL Heavy cavalry should be stronger +30% in and Medium and Lite +15% in EDU. This way - It is very unbalanced as EB team made cavalry - but adding HPoints to all cavalry is too much! Only HArchers need balance in ''Autocalc'' (I can even say that lancers and heavy cavalry are more powerfull in auto-resolve than in open battle:wall: )
Hit Point's to infantry are only needed for Phalanx - and only because I (and you I guess) can use 3-4 phalanx units to KILL 10-12 (I had made it work for Up to 16 !) non-phalanx infantry (if you angle them right) !
I too Had countless autocalcs of infantry battles before I figured this out, I even tested by playing with Macedon (verses KH) and Epeiros (verses Romanoi) - nothing was fine! I was loosing half of my army or the battle even
If I had WHOLE army of Phalanx against Romans of pure Hoplites (not to mention Spartans and Classic's - they beat the hell out of Elite phalanx and not to say some medium) -
So you see, I tought for 4 years the vanilla got it right (in this case EB) - but then I saw that chariot's are not right with HP, then Elephant's, then HArchers and Then After numbers of test's in EB (where KH has almost no phalanx - unlike RTW vanilla) I hav noticed that Autocalc's are ALWAYS on the SIDE of KH - NO matter when - Makedno's CAN't Take one Single KH city :no: -- Then I noticed that full stacks of hoplites are taking Pella that had 8 phalanx (4 SShields) and Gonatas! The same story is for Epeiros!
Epeiros can NEVER win over KH (at least I never SAW - EVER that Epeiros or Makedonia wins over KH in A SINGLE region! - that is only the case in Greece in the game * that kind of unbalance can only be seen in Syria:shrug: )
Do I really need to post pictures ?? That would mean I will have to loose some couple of hours on this, .. Is this so hard to belive? That phalanx is underpowered against 'non-phalanx' infantry?? Just imagine the situation you have to fight (as I had) against 6 rebel hoplites near Epeiros and you only have 3 phalanx i to use! If you go on open battle - you can't loose! But if you go Autocalc on Medium - you can never WIN! I urge you to think a bit - that is a common issue if you play 'phalanx' factions as I do :laugh4:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
Siege engines were something absolutely uniqe in ancient world, more rare than elephants. Spawning them the way you suggest it will turn EB in vanilla.
No! You did not understand!:curtain: - I want to make 'general_unit' for the LAST level of siege (that means for Royal Barracks 'big' siege equipment) and IF there is Academy in the town (or level 2 of it) - Plus I would make those siege 2-3 turns to built (And Siege engines were rare but only Genius Siege enginery were unique - Like Diades of Pella that made Heliopolis while besigeing Rhodos! .. Also, use of Stone Thrower's without a 'Character' that only knew how to make those tools is even worse! - belive me that is one very cool thing! )..We can make it cost even more! But, you see, as I have read about it - EB team made siege that expensive because they counted that 'You have to pay for some famous enginery' - but there is no engineir!?:no:
So I suggest only 'general_unit' for the LAST level of siege in the Hellenic world or wider if you please :shrug:
note... pretty please? ~:mecry:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
If we want to make some serious balance (or somewhat 'some' balance) I suggest that ALL Heavy cavalry should be stronger +30% in and Medium and Lite +15% in EDU. This way - It is very unbalanced as EB team made cavalry - but adding HPoints to all cavalry is too much! Only HArchers need balance in ''Autocalc'' (I can even say that lancers and heavy cavalry are more powerfull in auto-resolve than in open battle:wall: )
Quite the opposite - my opinion is that EB cavalry behaves very good in battles but sucks in autocalcs. Perhaps you need to get used to EB cavalry yet?
Quote:
Hit Point's to infantry are only needed for Phalanx - and only because I (and you I guess) can use 3-4 phalanx units to KILL 10-12 (I had made it work for Up to 16 !) non-phalanx infantry (if you angle them right) !
I too Had countless autocalcs of infantry battles before I figured this out, I even tested by playing with Macedon (verses KH) and Epeiros (verses Romanoi) - nothing was fine! I was loosing half of my army or the battle even
If I had WHOLE army of Phalanx against Romans of pure Hoplites (not to mention Spartans and Classic's - they beat the hell out of Elite phalanx and not to say some medium) -
So you see, I tought for 4 years the vanilla got it right (in this case EB) - but then I saw that chariot's are not right with HP, then Elephant's, then HArchers and Then After numbers of test's in EB (where KH has almost no phalanx - unlike RTW vanilla) I hav noticed that Autocalc's are ALWAYS on the SIDE of KH - NO matter when - Makedno's CAN't Take one Single KH city :no: -- Then I noticed that full stacks of hoplites are taking Pella that had 8 phalanx (4 SShields) and Gonatas! The same story is for Epeiros!
Epeiros can NEVER win over KH (at least I never SAW - EVER that Epeiros or Makedonia wins over KH in A SINGLE region! - that is only the case in Greece in the game * that kind of unbalance can only be seen in Syria:shrug: )
Do I really need to post pictures ?? That would mean I will have to loose some couple of hours on this, .. Is this so hard to belive? That phalanx is underpowered against 'non-phalanx' infantry?? Just imagine the situation you have to fight (as I had) against 6 rebel hoplites near Epeiros and you only have 3 phalanx i to use! If you go on open battle - you can't loose! But if you go Autocalc on Medium - you can never WIN! I urge you to think a bit - that is a common issue if you play 'phalanx' factions as I do :laugh4:
now finally we got to something - you think that one unit of medium longpike phalanx should be able to beat two units of hoplites.
well, I'm afraid that we will never agree with you on this, cause methinx that
one unit of medium longpike phalanx should be able to deal with only one units of hoplites and be smacked by two units of hoplites.
And if you have difficulties in your campaign by trying to deal with 10 units of medium infantry with your five phalanx... well, may be it is not the game EDU that is unbalansed but your approach is wrong and you need more patiense?
and - FULL stacks of hoplites of course should take cities with only eight units against them. Medium phalanx sucks against hoplites on the walls.
and - Makedon does successfully takes some of KH cityes. I've seen them doing it.
Quote:
No! You did not understand!:curtain: - I want to make 'general_unit' for the LAST level of siege (that means for Royal Barracks 'big' siege equipment) and IF there is Academy in the town (or level 2 of it) - Plus I would make those siege 2-3 turns to built (And Siege engines were rare but only Genius Siege enginery were unique - Like Diades of Pella that made Heliopolis while besigeing Rhodos! .. Also, use of Stone Thrower's without a 'Character' that only knew how to make those tools is even worse! - belive me that is one very cool thing! )..We can make it cost even more! But, you see, as I have read about it - EB team made siege that expensive because they counted that 'You have to pay for some famous enginery' - but there is no engineir!?:no:
So I suggest only 'general_unit' for the LAST level of siege in the Hellenic world or wider if you please :shrug:
Ok then, agree with you on this.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
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Originally Posted by MiniMe
Quite the opposite - my opinion is that EB cavalry behaves very good in battles but sucks in autocalcs. Perhaps you need to get used to EB cavalry yet?
If you are so sure that cavalry in EB is greatly underpowered in autocalc's.. then OK :shrug: I never use much cavalry in EB because it is greatly underpowerd in open battle by the opinions of many - but ok.. maybe that is - maybe right - but EB vanilla make's cavalry with little startegic function on the battlefield (like, you can't really use cavalry as Makedonian's used them in battles - like one separated 'family' on the battlefield - one that can break non-phalanx infantry (in EB that is only a gream - my Hetairoi can't win in a single charge even if the charge at the back of a non phalanx enemy infantry that is fighting my phalanx on Hard difficulty! - and if they win - the loose 30-50% of all unts! - THAT would mean that in EVERY battle 30-50% of nobles would DIE - NO .. :no: that was not the case)..
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Originally Posted by MiniMe
now finally we got to something - you think that one unit of medium longpike phalanx should be able to beat two units of hoplites.
well, I'm afraid that we will never agree with you on this, cause methinx that
one unit of medium longpike phalanx should be able to deal with only one units of hoplites and be smacked by two units of hoplites.
And if you have difficulties in your campaign by trying to deal with 10 units of medium infantry with your five phalanx... well, may be it is not the game EDU that is unbalansed but your approach is wrong and you need more patiense?
MiniMe - if you followed my 'links' to 'MY' campaigns - you could see that I don't have problem's in wining and that I have all the patiense in South East Europe there can be.. SO, if you haven't followed those links I will post a part of that.
I have destroyed Romanoi with EPEIROS on VH/VH in 269 bc (PLUS I DID not turn the EBBS on once I think ) and that was on EB 10 - PURE VANILLA
And I only made it because I had some phalanx! Only because Phalanx are of much, much, much more use on the open battle than ANY other infantry..
And I am not saying that ONE phalanx can beat TWO unit's of hoplites..
I am saying that '' I '' and ANYONE that KNOW's how to use phalanx need's only 4 (or 6 top's) phalanx to kill as much as 16 hoplites units that are led by the AI (the poin is - you angle them right !) .. Like Alexnader did..?? He often defended his phalanx flank's with Phalanx 'and' some infantry and cavalry..
So, you don't know how to use and win with 6 phalanx against 16 or 18 hoplites?? - you don't konw the trick? It's even better if you have 6 phalanx and 1 or 2 horse units..
Just don't tell me that I am the first one that told this to you ? :shrug:
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Originally Posted by MiniMe
and - FULL stacks of hoplites of course should take cities with only eight units against them. Medium phalanx sucks against hoplites on the walls.
and - Makedon does successfully takes some of KH cityes. I've seen them doing it.
Oh, that was MY bad - I ment full stack as 'full row' you know - the 'upper row' that is about 10 hopltes I think + KH general.. But Mak's had 8 phalanx and Gonatas (some were elite!) .. And if you are to defend that town - you will only need 6 phalanx to win.. (counting they don't take the town square :san_grin: )
And, dont misunderstand me - I am ready to give up all My ideas just for the team work.. really :yes:
But most of what this is about would not go into ALEM :no: - it would go into EAEM .. and only if Lgk say's - ok.. I don't pretend to be alone here :laugh4:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
I know how to beat 12 hoplites with 6 phalanx ;-)
I consider situation when you can beat 18 hoplites with 6 phalanx, imbalansed. Phalanx are good unit but not supermen. I don't like superunits.
I consider your current attitude toward longpike units very biased upon your last "phalanx" campaign.
Let's see if you would change it after playing campaign of hoplites or principes against phalanx ;-)
And: EB EDU stats are for battles on Medium. I suggest you try it.
I've done RTR battles on VH. Piece of cake. This is not RTR, this stats system is totally different. Theirs is for VH/H. This is for M. Please, stop judging it before playing it the way it is supposed to be played :yes:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
FROM: Re: "Civilized" factions conquering the steppe - for MiniMe
Carthage will spread to Italy from Sicily when we add ''ai_do_not_attack'' for Carthage to Iberia and Rome to Carthage!
Logic in this argument is: Carthage now focuses on Sicily and North Africa mostly - they rarely fight against rebels in Spain - but if they don't have ''ai_do_not_attack'' limitations to Spain - they will group more there and will spend more money in Spain. But we need Carthage in Sicily where we want to see more Carthage vs Romans combat (especialy after they go into 'mainland' of Italy - you saw they are at the Roman door's)
If one thext is hard for you to read - you could just say so.. I really like this "Palatino Linotype" - do you really have a problem with that font and various colours I use? :shrug:
See, this was made according to ''ai_do_not_attack'' faction's. Rome set not to attack Carthage first - so he wait's Carthage to attack him first ! - Only then he fight's back! -
AND Carthage is set ''ai_do_not_attack'' Spain - in this test Carthage was attacked BY IBERIA and ONLY then Carthage took some Iberian TOWNS and now will probably take Spain! I don't know what comes next because I quited testing after Egypt came in EUROPE and destroyed AS!
Logic here is that Roman's will not 'destroy' Carthage in Sicily and Italy on sight! Think about it really.. My opinion to is that Carthage ways of expansion are fine - and they will only prolong the Iberia faction Life (which should remain alive as others until 200bc) - it there is no ''ai_do_not_attack'' limitation's for Spain - Cartahge would take all of Spain much faster (and we want faction's to be alive more:shrug: )
One very good thing with ''ai_do_not_attack'' option is that this option manly makes the game and small faction's last more - for example until those 'small' faction's destroy themselfs (by attacking a bigger faction that was untill that time ''ai_do_not_attack''-forced to keep the same small faction alive)..
In the case of AS/Pontos/Armenia ''ai_do_not_attack'' option is maybe the only thing that will keep them alive untill 200-150bc.. :shrug:
And MiniMe - I will post that in 2 day's top's with proofs of HP idea for phalanx and HArchers (but I say, this was tested on one Serbian forum 2 years ago - as a vanilla RTW tweak - it worked nice - it's just that at that time I did not belive it like you don't belive it now:wall: )
Key word in that part of my post was word "mutual". I want to see them both decline in the midgame not one of them rise to the state of freakin ancient USSR.
I think it can really be done by manipulating with ''ai_do_not_attack'' option, very little script and more army for AS in Syria - like those ''ai_do_not_attack'' option I have mentioned and explained above - that way AS will only fight Egypt (but we can make AS much stronger in Syria at the start) and Baktria will eventually go and take East part of AS Empire..
Well, if everyone would happily follow this option I would be forced to leave this forum course it will be impossible to read it
Sorry, do you mind If I use 'Palatino' and only black and blue?
Can we compromise друже :san_wink:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
I know how to beat 12 hoplites with 6 phalanx ;-)
I consider situation when you can beat 18 hoplites with 6 phalanx, imbalansed. Phalanx are good unit but not supermen. I don't like superunits.
Ok I got you now!:laugh4: ... so you know as I do and as most of the player's that 6 phalanx (if angled well) can beat atleast - 12 (and ok.. if you have some elite you can take even 20 - I have done it really - but against AI - not human) ... But you know that WE can't win ever if we use autoclac - like 6 to 12 - never :no:
That is the point! - I suggest that we balance other (mostly cavalry Archery unit's) to even 1,6 HP.. but Barbarina phalanx could have (as I made it) 1,1 , native Hellenic phalanx 1,2 and medium and some elite phalanx 1,3 hp (by my opinion only SShields should have 1,4 hp of all infantry - like Celt's are already strong as in vanilla...)
I played Baktria against AS and I only had Cavalry - the same goes for Armenia.. I know how it is to play against phalanx - but it is much easier if you have open battles - then the phalanxes are 'all around' so you can easily flank them..
But becasue of that - autocalcs must be workinga as if the Human would play - That is the main reason we are going to change HArchers to + hp
Oh... and yes -- :wall:
I will use Medium from now on.. but you still saw the point - phalanx use is great even on VH/VH .. now imagine medium?
Do you know we have premission to use RTR art - I suggest more diversity of officers and more and more unit's in the future.. * What do you think??! :boxing:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
I suggest you to take a look at "factions progress" tread. You'll see that Carthies in midgame and especially in lategame are always successful. I'm not worried about them at all! What I want is fair chances for AI-guided Romans. What I dream of is AI-Romans invasion of Africa
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Originally Posted by Maksimus
Sorry, do you mind If I use 'Palatino' and only black and blue?
Thank you very much =)
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Can we compromise друже :san_wink:
We can and we should, друже :san_wink:
And if you think I moan too much... well, someone has to be critic when the rest is so creative and optimistic ~D
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Originally Posted by Maksimus
Do you know we have premission to use RTR art - I suggest more diversity of officers and more and more unit's in the future.. * What do you think??! :boxing:
I'm pretty happy with EB units actually and while RTR units are also good looking, their "shining" style doesn't match EB calm "pastel" style
Lets talk about it after we deal with immediate concerns, Ok?
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
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Originally Posted by MiniMe
I suggest you to take a look at "factions progress" tread. You'll see that Carthies in midgame and especially in lategame are always successful. I'm not worried about them at all! What I want is fair chances for AI-guided Romans. What I dream of is AI-Romans invasion of Africa
I was thinking about that for quite some time now.. And I suggest we make it na EVENT.. like at some year - if Roman's still have Rome - we spawn one or two full stack's of Roman army in Tunis and leave it be - That is also my tought for Hanibal in Italy..
Can this be done?
I hope we can make it work.. this way most of ancient history has no sence If Rome does not go into Africa..:shrug:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
WOW! Now that's an Idea!
Lets call it "Scipio invasion project"
Conditions:
1. Rome at war with Carthage
2. Rome controls upper half of Italy
3. Carthage sieges rome towns in Italy
then
we create couple of good roman stacks with good generals exactly near the walls of Carthage and Utica
...
hmmm...
this sounds promising...
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
We should waith to hear Lgk's and Konny's comment's on this and then we could start to gain pace .. ( I am afraid Lgk wont like the ''ai_dont...'' option and such an extensive use of it in my proposal... But I just can see how do we 'script manipulate' more this way .. do we could spawn and spawn more and more armies - but that should be in cases of 'Scipio Project' not in Diadokhoi war's :wall:)
I must :Zzzz: now, I had a hard day and one exam yesterday.. one that made my brain 1% bigger :laugh4: .. It was really hard :whip:
Festina lente
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
A lot of stuff. Let's sort
Scripted Roman invasion in Africa would be an absolute no for me. Please think it over in gameplay. When both factions are controlled by the AI one of the three things will happen:
1. Both factions will change their homelands with the Africans controlling Italy and the Italians controlling Africa. or
2. The Romans wouldn't do anything and just stand there, like Antigonos next to Athens or the Greek army on Crete. or
3. The Romans will try to reach their homelands. If they have some ships left they might use them, but most likely they'll use the landroute through Egypt, Syria, Asia Minor, Thrakia and Illyria; becoming pinned or looped some on the way.
None of the above I am eager to see in a campaign. What would never happen is the Karthees sending ships to Italy to bring their army home.
ai_not_attack should be strictly limited to factions that have in the moment better to do than going on safari elsewhere. That would be AS should be forbidden to attack Pontos, Armenia and Baktria (and may be the rebells too). They should concentrate on the Ptolemaians. The three Greek factions should be forbidden to attack the rebells as long as the other two are active in the region.
That should prevent AS to start wars with everyone around while Egypt is eating up her lands, and it should prevent Makedonia and Epeiros from wasting their armies on the Balkans when the Greeks are gathering strong armies on the Theassalian border.
That would help those factions that always lose their war because of AI strategical stupidity. Everyone else should be allowed to do what ever the AI likes.
Changes to the unit stats would be no for me in most of the cases too. Maksimus, I can't see why the EB cavalry is underpowered. May be you are using it the wrong way or you have false ideas of what cavalry was able to do.
Alexander did not crush full enemy armies with just cavalry. At Issos he routed archers with Hetairoi and by this opened a gap in the enemy line through which his infantry could attack the enemy flank. At Gaugamela his horsemen had to fight on their own for just a short time until the infantry appeared on the scene and caused the enemy wing to rout. And this was always fought against light Persian forces not Phalanxis. That is nothing the EB cavalry can't do either.
On the other hand, discussing this with you (and this is not the first time) is pointless as long as you insit on playing on anything but the recommended M battle difficulty. Cavalry is very fragile in EB and giving the enemy extra points in defense and attack by difficulty level might make them useless.
I don't think that there is a Hoplites-Phalanx problem that makes KH always win the war in Greece. Certainly a human player can win with 6 units of Phalanx against 12 units of AI Hoplites without much problems. Just line them up in a long line on flat ground and the AI will throw its Hoplites one by one frontal against this wall. The same battle fought against a human player will certainly result in a crushing defeat for the Phalanx.
And don't forget that the Makedonia AI raises large numbers of Hoplites itself. I would say that about half of the "Phalanx-faction's" armies' heavy infantry are made up of Hoplitai Haploi for the first part of the game.
The reason why KH always wins in Greece is the strategic situation: KH can't do other than go for Makedonia, while the Maks are also under attack by Epeiros and do waste armies for attacking Serdike, Tylis and the like villages on the Balkans. Epeiros isn't doing so much at all. Most of the time they have full stacks sitting around the Adriatic coast, make occasionly raids on Pella and conquer Illyrian villages from time to time.
Just check the map for "Herioc Victory" markers of AI battles. I find them in Greece more often memoring a Makedonian victory than a Greek one, even though Greece is evidently winning the war.
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4. What can we do about Win_conditions? Konny made some progress there.
Yep. The last version seems to be working very fine:
Rome didn't do so anything in the beginning, but now they have taken Segesta and Taras and are repeatingly attacking Rhegion.
Epeiros and Makedonia are keeping out of the Balkans (but KH is still winning).
Ptolemaioi basicly keeps away from the African rebell towns but focuses on AS (save for that stupid little army from Kyrene that thought it a good idea to attack me in Leptis). AS has not declared war on anybody.
Pontos went West, took Nikaia, Byzantion and now Tylis and is expanding along the Black Sea coast.
Baktria and Parthia destroyed Saka, but Baktria lost all former Saka provinces to rebellion short thereafter. Parthia has meanwhile attacked AS.
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AI should be able to train even as 'SLAVE' ! - VERY IMPORTANT !
They can. I didn't know before but it is possible for the rebells to raise units, even though it is only doing so on rare occasions. Just check the towns in which all units have a chevron or two at the start, after some ten years you'll see new units without experince popping up in some of these towns.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
First of all, I want to add that most of 'Extensive' changes will probably go into EAEM (so don't need to argue much:laugh4: )
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Originally Posted by konny
Scripted Roman invasion in Africa would be an absolute no for me. Please think it over in gameplay. When both factions are controlled by the AI one of the three things will happen:
1. Both factions will change their homelands with the Africans controlling Italy and the Italians controlling Africa. or
2. The Romans wouldn't do anything and j
ust stand there, like Antigonos next to Athens or the Greek army on Crete. or
3. The Romans will try to reach their homelands. If they have some ships left they might use them, but most likely they'll use the landroute through Egypt, Syria, Asia Minor, Thrakia and Illyria; becoming pinned or looped some on the way.
We should test it dearly! I understand what strange things happen I saw that alot - But I am for it to be tested - it's just that we need a way to be sure Roman's will what you say they will.. I know about Crete - but We should move that Greek Army to AsiaMinor or Sparta.
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Originally Posted by konny
ai_not_attack should be strictly limited to factions that have in the moment better to do than going on safari elsewhere. That would be AS should be forbidden to attack Pontos, Armenia and Baktria (and may be the rebells too). They should concentrate on the Ptolemaians. The three Greek factions should be forbidden to attack the rebells as long as the other two are active in the region.
I used ''ai_not_attack'' option only in the scope of EB vanilla default set of wars.. So I did not change the War-conditions so one can attack ONLY one faction - like AS to attack only Egypt.. But it can be done easily - BUT we should not set faction's NOT attack rebels - because they will never attack them that way - ever :shrug:
Also KH was never-ever that strong as in EB vanilla (KH always wins) So might have to think about
---KH NOT attacking Makedonia first --- that will slow the KH expansion - Think about that it is one very nice solution to KH AI expansion !
That could also be done for Egypt verses AS !
At that time Makedonia and Epeiros 'made' the rules - so KH IS VERY owerpowered - if you Human does not play as Makedonia - then Makedonia should be strong enough to win in Greece - KH should never win by my opinion .. :no:
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Originally Posted by konny
Changes to the unit stats would be no for me in most of the cases too. Maksimus, I can't see why the EB cavalry is underpowered. May be you are using it the wrong way or you have false ideas of what cavalry was able to do.
Most of units in EB 'can' be tweaked and will be for Extensive mod - I can only say that EB team are made up of people like us - So you should know that some VERY unbalanced unit's from EB 10 are going to be tweaked for EB 11 - so most of your remarks that EB is well balanced depends on EB version rather than on some stable 'ethic' (the best word I can figure). We know that they will try with HP for HArchers, that they are going to balance elephant's and maybe some more missle cavalry.. and not to say that Gaestae will be major redone!
Most of your comment's on unit stats are based on judgement that ''EB vanilla is ok with EDU balance'' - but it is most likely juste barely OK so EAEM with deal with it.
Again, most of all of that will be in EAEM - so you don't need to worry - MiniMe and I made debates that are not for ALEM - the version we all support, so If you are sceptical about cavalry, phalanxes and HArchers - I can't
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Originally Posted by konny
On the other hand, discussing this with you (and this is not the first time) is pointless as long as you insit on playing on anything but the recommended M battle difficulty. Cavalry is very fragile in EB and giving the enemy extra points in defense and attack by difficulty level might make them useless.
Cavalry is just barely more stronger on Medium - yes! I play on Medium for some time now :san_grin:
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Originally Posted by konny
I don't think that there is a Hoplites-Phalanx problem that makes KH always win the war in Greece. Certainly a human player can win with 6 units of Phalanx against 12 units of AI Hoplites without much problems. Just line them up in a long line on flat ground and the AI will throw its Hoplites one by one frontal against this wall. The same battle fought against a human player will certainly result in a crushing defeat for the Phalanx
There is a Hoplites-Phalanx problem and it it obvious but I don't suggest to add HP 2 or 3 for Phalanx - but just to 1,1 - 1,3 - that is not a big deal - I have already explained that hoplites loose always agains 'human' phalanx and we tend to make AI autocalcs close to HUMAN game - not AI..
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Originally Posted by konny
And don't forget that the Makedonia AI raises large numbers of Hoplites itself. I would say that about half of the "Phalanx-faction's" armies' heavy infantry are made up of Hoplitai Haploi for the first part of the game.
That will be changed with some tweaks as for example ''Caesar'' troops personality that is much better than ''Stalin'' for Makedonia,
That does not change the fact phalanx is very underpowered in autocals against non-phalanx infantry (but that does not mean we will add 3 HP for phalanx elite but only 1,3 - that just slightly adds to phalanx)
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Originally Posted by konny
Just check the map for "Herioc Victory" markers of AI battles. I find them in Greece more often memoring a Makedonian victory than a Greek one, even though Greece is evidently winning the war.
KH should NEVER win in Greece - the same is for Egypt in Syria..
And most of win onditions loose importance with ''ai_...'' options - they are far more easy to use and manipulate..
Ok, I will waith some more comments of your's - MiniMe's and Lgk's so we can make join agreement!
And marry Christmas Konny ! :san_wink:
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
k, thanks for the heads up. The Alexander siege AI is substantially improved, with the couple of sieges I've played. They try to outflank you from both sides of the town square now, as well as try to sneak siege engines near close to the walls then transverse the wall perimeter until they reach the other gate.
The spearmen also break their current attack and attack cavalry if cavalry is engaged in combat with them, setting up situations where the spearmen will chase my cavalry around if the first shock charge doesn't break the spearmen. The cavalry also tend to charge spearmen and infantry more, by pulling back and going back in. I haven't checked to see if they have the distance right, but the one unit of Baktrian hetairio cataphracts kept charging my levy spearmen.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
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Originally Posted by Maksimus
I know about Crete - but We should move that Greek Army to AsiaMinor or Sparta.
I have allready done so (the changed descr_start in the win conditions thread).
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BUT we should not set faction's NOT attack rebels - because they will never attack them that way - ever
Why not? Just script them at war with the rebells as soon as they have achieved their goals.
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Also KH was never-ever that strong as in EB vanilla (KH always wins) So might have to think about
I had campaigns in which Makedonia won, even though that's rare.
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---KH NOT attacking Makedonia first --- that will slow the KH expansion - Think about that it is one very nice solution to KH AI expansion !
That could also be done for Egypt verses AS !
Do you want to trigger that KH does not attack Makedonia and that Ptolemaioi does not AS??
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KH should never win by my opinion .. :no:
Why?
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We know that they will try with HP for HArchers, that they are going to balance elephant's and maybe some more missle cavalry.. and not to say that Gaestae will be major redone!
1.5 HP for horse archers is not a big deal, if that really does not change their preformance on the tacitical map. The Gaesatae are fine when you just look at the single unit, but the factions that can raise them become overpowered when spamming this unit. That's the major problem with them. I had reduced their HP to 1.
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Most of your comment's on unit stats are based on judgement that ''EB vanilla is ok with EDU balance'' - but it is most likely juste barely OK so EAEM with deal with it.
Again, most of all of that will be in EAEM - so you don't need to worry - MiniMe and I made debates that are not for ALEM - the version we all support, so If you are sceptical about cavalry, phalanxes and HArchers - I can't
I wish you two good luck in such far ranging changes like strengthening all cavalry by 30%, but don't count me in.
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I have already explained that hoplites loose always agains 'human' phalanx and we tend to make AI autocalcs close to HUMAN game - not AI..
And I have allready explained that the human player will always win with Hoplites against phalanx. You can't change the stats of the units that the results of the autocalc battles between AI factions always have the same results that you have achieved in your recent Epeiros campaing. Of course, you can, but you shouldn't.
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KH should NEVER win in Greece - the same is for Egypt in Syria..
Why?
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And marry Christmas Konny ! :san_wink: [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
Marry Christmas to your too.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Konny, scripting can do almost anything - it is not a wise solution alway's by my opinion - and + it add's to the script which is not that necessary .. Can you be sure that it will not mess up the game when we 'make script-wars' ??
If Lgk and MiniMe want to add more to the script - ok.. then it's ok - But ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' option is much more simple and it wont slow down the game :no:
I would like try to add (ontop those already added) 'ai_do_not_attack_faction' option to ::
1-Egypt ''ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_julii'' (so he waits AS to attack first - in the mean time Aegypt could attack rebels we can add a bit in that region) - this will slow down Aegypt expansion but 'not' by adding more and more script. Offcourse, we must 'uncheck' the war's between them so this could take effect!
2-KH ''ai_do_not_attack_faction macedon'' (that will mean KH will wait Makedonia to attack it first), so this way we will have Makedonian dominion over South Greece!
In my opinion, KH should never win in Greece if 'human' does not use them because the were under Makedonian influence until Romans came.
Greece 200bc
https://img212.imageshack.us/img212/...egeanwolz2.png
:shrug:
And about phalanx verses hoplites issue,
* It is, I can vouch for it .. let say, 95% more likely you will win with 4 low-end phalanx against 8 hoplites than with 4 SPARTANS (or 4 KH generals) against 8 low-end phalanx, even on easy difficulty..
So human player can't win with Hoplites against phalanx if there is more the same number or 30% more phalanx in enemy army.
And the changes of EDU stats should results that autocalc battles end as 'MOST' players would end some hoplite vs phalanx battle - that is by wining with Phalanx against Hoplites even if there are less phalanx infantry (and even if you have low-end phalanx against KH generals).
So, by the phalanx 1,1 to 1,3 hp - we only 'tweak' the balance a 'bit' (it would affect the autocalc just a 'bit').
And thank you for best wishes for EAEM EDU tweaks :stwshame: We just want to balance some aspect's more.. Changes like strengthening all cavalry by 30% may not happen (but somethings as cavalry mass etc.. could be done) - And we wont count you in if you don't want to implement some new ideas.. Maybe you see them as wrong ideas - but I can't do anything about it :gah:
Those very extensive ideas will do for EAEM not ALEM we all work on,
Still have in mind that even some features you don't support will go through if the rest of us agree.. :ballchain:
Oh.. and, Orthodox Christmas is on 7 January 2008 :san_grin:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
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Originally Posted by Maksimus
Konny, scripting can do almost anything - it is not a wise solution alway's by my opinion - and + it add's to the script which is not that necessary .. Can you be sure that it will not mess up the game when we 'make script-wars' ??
Why should it?
On settlement turn start "Athens", "Sparta", "Pella" and "Apollonia", if controlled by Makedons, set Makedons at war with rebells. The same for KH and Epeiros. If any of these towns are controlled by rebells at any point all three will be at war with rebells.
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1-Egypt ''ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_julii'' (so he waits AS to attack first - in the mean time Aegypt could attack rebels we can add a bit in that region) - this will slow down Aegypt expansion but 'not' by adding more and more script. Offcourse, we must 'uncheck' the war's between them so this could take effect!
You mean setting AS and Ptolemaioi at peace and forbidding Pt to attack AS?
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2-KH ''ai_do_not_attack_faction macedon'' (that will mean KH will wait Makedonia to attack it first), so this way we will have Makedonian dominion over South Greece!
And KH is expected to do what instead? Taking all that into account you might find it more suitable to make KH Eleutheroi.
When you take a closer look at this map, you'll see that the regions that are controlled by KH in EB are exactly the regions that were not under Makedonian controll. And we certainly should not make any drastic changes to the game, like setting AS and Pt at peace or preventing KH from fighting her war with the Maks because of the situation in history that we had when the Romans appeared on the scene - who will never do so in EB if not run by the human player.
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So human player can't win with Hoplites against phalanx if there is more the same number or 30% more phalanx in enemy army.
How many campaigns have you played with "Hoplites-factions" (KH, Karthago or the early Romans)? I am just curious because I usally win with Hoplites against Phalanx on the tactical map; provided I do not have to attack against serious odds uphill, or the enemy hasn't also a lot of excellent support units like heavy swordmen, Hetairoi etc, or other "irregularities" like that.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
1.5 HP for horse archers is not a big deal, if that really does not change their preformance on the tacitical map.
Grim day, Konny. Please, see Lgk post in this tread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96714 it appears that hp he was talking about never were fractional but extra. and I don't think that multihitpoint horsies are a good idea.
Quote:
I wish you two good luck in such far ranging changes like strengthening all cavalry by 30%, but don't count me in.
? misunderstanding. Me never was for something like this
BTW, do you have any thoughts on how to drag romans to Africa?
Cause even if "Scipion invasion" might be a very radical decision, who would not want to see someone finally dealing with Whites in their southern lair?
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Ok, so I don't have to explain more about EDU hp issues
Now, konny, :square:
1-about 'script-wars' - ok! We should just waith for Lgk on this..
2-KH expansion.. We must supress KH much more because they are represented in EB vanilla as one very powerfull force they never ever were (compared to Makedonia or Epeiros for example - and I did not have A SINGLE campaign in which Makedonia won :no: ),
So I could agree (ok,) that (KH) should be in war against Makedonia but the pace of their expansion can only be explained as if some alien's came and destroyed Makedonian state - anything else is only one great 'unbalance'
But look at this! .. what do you think that we.. make..
One solution that may be like.. - we make KH ''ai_not.. bla bla'' Makedonia only If 'Human' does not play KH - this way KH wont expand it is not attacked by Makedonia and also it would not EVEN cross to Makedonian land - it may onnly go to Thermon and that is it (or maybe Epeir - but hardly)
This way we keep the balance and historic note in Greece:shrug:
Also, one more argument that is on the picture we see - KH - NEVER - ever moved from 272 - 200bc - ever (unless some minor holdings) and not to say into Makedonia:shrug: so , look at that solution I mentioned for 'Greek balance'
And yes - I think setting AS and Ptolemaioi at peace and forbidding Pt to attack AS would be one step in a right direction - AS will be forbited to attacks all it's neighborhood exept Egypt - so AS will eventually make one strong attack and we wil have 'balance' and some very interesting events :yes:
Oh.. and yes, I have played with Romans and KH (with KH more) but for about 20 turns maybe..:shrug: I just like Epeiros and Baktria and Makedonia more so I tend to play with them..
And let me tell you -- my arguments are NOT made up so they can suit my 'interest' - my only interest is 'historic' balance and making more factions alive later in the game ~:yin-yang:
Also, It is much - much harder to win phalanx with hoplites and it is much easier to win atucalc's with hoplite army against phalanx army.
Edit, I think we try the 'Scipio project' on EAEM - not on Lite,, ž
And MiniMe - Konny ment ME and LGK as the ones that want to cahange more and more.. not you ;)
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Calm down, people. I don't like when most of the time discussion goes about major changes that will have little effect (eg methinks scripted invasions aren't worth the effort, and these siege-engine-generals - is it THAT important?) or have nothing to do with Alex. I would rather stick to slight changes that will have huge effect on gameplay and campaign flow. As i said earlier, simple relocation of starting armies and FMs and a little building tweak here and there :juggle2: sometimes leads to drastic results and entirely different campaign. Let us concentrte now on lite mod that will address immediate probs introduced by alex AI difference! :whip:
As for ai_not_attack option, let me illustrate my point. Suppose we ordered AS not to attack its smaller neighbours. Now imagine Ptolies beating them into some distant map corner, and then comes Pahlava and beats Yellow Fever back to Egypt, separating AS from them. Now Parthians can duke with Ptolies in Syria for eternity, and AS will never have chances to backstab careless Pahlava. Unless of course we make another megabyte of scripting checking such odd situations. :book:
Note - i don't insist that things will turn this way, but it MAY happen. Or even worse - if, by any chance, two factions sign a ceasefire, won't it AGAIN prevent one of them attacking another - and live practically at opponent's mercy if they have worse position at the moment? I'm not sure if the appropriate flag is permanently set by alex engine AND stored in savegame. Who knows? :inquisitive:
P.S. Now you see that me definitely doesn't "want to change more and more" :laugh4:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lgk
Calm down, people. I don't like when most of the time discussion goes about major changes that will have little effect (eg methinks scripted invasions aren't worth the effort, and these siege-engine-generals - is it THAT important?) or have nothing to do with Alex. I would rather stick to slight changes that will have huge effect on gameplay and campaign flow. As i said earlier, simple relocation of starting armies and FMs and a little building tweak here and there :juggle2: sometimes leads to drastic results and entirely different campaign. Let us concentrte now on lite mod that will address immediate probs introduced by alex AI difference! :whip:
For Lite mod (ALEM) most of those discussions are not important at all.
So we should stick to Lite..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lgk
As for ai_not_attack option, let me illustrate my point. Suppose we ordered AS not to attack its smaller neighbours. Now imagine Ptolies beating them into some distant map corner, and then comes Pahlava and beats Yellow Fever back to Egypt, separating AS from them. Now Parthians can duke with Ptolies in Syria for eternity, and AS will never have chances to backstab careless Pahlava. Unless of course we make another megabyte of scripting checking such odd situations. :book:
But in that case it is very likely Pahlava would not skip AS in it's attack, and even more - by the time Pahlava attack Egypt - Pahlava is done! - there is no Pahlava.. (you know the share system Egypt uses - AS barracks :shrug: ..)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lgk
Note - i don't insist that things will turn this way, but it MAY happen. Or even worse - if, by any chance, two factions sign a ceasefire, won't it AGAIN prevent one of them attacking another - and live practically at opponent's mercy if they have worse position at the moment? I'm not sure if the appropriate flag is permanently set by alex engine AND stored in savegame. Who knows? :inquisitive:
I think I don't understand it much, but let me try..
''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' in couple of my tests is working good, because, I will refer to AS/Pahlava/Pontos/Armenia/Egypt/Baktria/Saba issues. Imagine:
1 - AS is set not to attack anyone exept Egypt - that means it drags the army from the East and attacks Rebels and only Aegypt
2 - Pontos/Armenia are set not to attack AS so they keep their ground and develop UNTIL Egypt (always) takes Syria and goes in AMinor
3 - Egypt is set not to attack the same faction's as AS - so when he/if he takes AS lands in Media - he is fragile. Then AI attacks him with Armenia and Pontos and Saba (as a rule almost)
4 - Baktria wont attack Pahlava and Saka so they go only into India and AS
5 - Pontos is set not to go into Armenia so he goes to AMinor
6 - All other factions are free to attack as they wish!
note: I have already said that ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' option only means that 'one' faction wont attack as first one - that does not mean it wont respond by destroying the faction that attacked it :no:
The only ones that hav 'mutual' no-attack are AS-pontos and AS-Armenia
Also, we can C_script it maybe so that when Human plays -''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' is used more among AI..
If you say no - than what do you propose...? how?
.. I am here :curtain:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
Yes, I have seen that. Seems like that idea has to be buried. Ok, it isn't so dramatic because I don't think that the steppe factions should rule the world in EB (if this would be a Migration Area mod things would be different).
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misunderstanding. Me never was for something like this
I see. Misunderstanding.
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BTW, do you have any thoughts on how to drag romans to Africa?
Cause even if "Scipion invasion" might be a very radical decision, who would not want to see someone finally dealing with Whites in their southern lair?
Like all things that we want to happen midgame: no way.
The AI is absolutly land-bound, save for those idiotic raids in BI. So, for an AI Rome Karthago might as well be in Central America, what makes it more likely for them to land in Yucatan than in Tunesia. Scripting these forces in doesn't do either because the AI needs to asign them a valid target, and chances are quite low that it will find that in the enemy town it is standing next to.
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2-KH expansion.. We must supress KH much more because they are represented in EB vanilla as one very powerfull force they never ever were (compared to Makedonia or Epeiros for example - and I did not have A SINGLE campaign in which Makedonia won
Useing victory conditions, the Mak main army next to Pella and the ALX.exe I had only one occasion (of about countless) in which Makedonia lost Pella. The longest game that I had played this way was until c. 240 BC.
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As for ai_not_attack option, let me illustrate my point. Suppose we ordered AS not to attack its smaller neighbours. Now imagine Ptolies beating them into some distant map corner, and then comes Pahlava and beats Yellow Fever back to Egypt, separating AS from them. Now Parthians can duke with Ptolies in Syria for eternity, and AS will never have chances to backstab careless Pahlava. Unless of course we make another megabyte of scripting checking such odd situations.
Certainly we can't trigger every strange situation in by script because that would mean checking every town on the map for who controlls it. In a normal game Parthia will certainly move West as long as the bordering towns are still controlled by AS. Don't forgett that this command is working in one direction only: when you make AS not attack Parthia it is still possible, and will most likely happen, that Parthia attacks AS.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Ok, We must go on:
Lgk, Konny, MiniMe, I will now sum up issues that need to be addressed fast for the upcomming 'Beta ALEM' (lite 'AlexEBMod'):curtain:
I want you to address every issue one by one so we have a clear picture of what will be done and what will be tested !:dancinglock:
1) 'Scipio Project' (the spawned AI Roman invasion into North Africa) - address
2) 'Scripted War's' that could influence AI expansions - address
3) ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' - your opinions (Who, Why, How) - address
4) EDU Hit Point's tweaks for:
*Horse Archers - address
*Phalanx - address
*Elephants - address
*Chariots - address
*Other - address
5) Suppress Egypt early expansion - address
6) Suppress KH early expansion - address
7) Barracks Issue in CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
8) Walls Issue in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
9) Mines Issue in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
10) Army realocations in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
11) Army realocations (+to Dacia, Armenia and Pontos so they make moves) in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
12) ''NightBattleCapable 1'' traits in ''descr_strat.txt'' at the start - address
13) NEW start UNITS ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
14) + 1 expirience to all Mercs ''DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT'' - address
15) AI Faction characters (caesar, henry, stalin...) - address
16) Rebel faction Characters (spawn them?) - address
17) MY Siege suggestion https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=96135&page=3 - address
18) EDB bonuses for some buildings that have none (like Academy and barracks and walls and smith) - address
19) Lgk's Money Script - address (not issued before)
20) Traits project - address (not issued before)
21) Adding +50% (or +100%) to resource values in ''descr_sm_resources.txt'' - address (not issued before)
22) Adding some DMB models so they can be added in ''descr_lbc_db.txt'' - address (not issued before)
23) Make diplomats more rare and available only after 'core level 2 or 3' - address (not issued before)
24) Add more issues to the list that are forgotten by me - address (not issued before)
PLEASE - taxative answer ALL one by one so it can be summed in a notebook:san_wink: !
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
Seems like that idea has to be buried. Ok, it isn't so dramatic because I don't think that the steppe factions should rule the world in EB (if this would be a Migration Area mod things would be different).
You guys are hopeless. :laugh4: Return there and re-read end of thread attentively!
And hp bonus has to be enough for steppe factions to hold their ground, not become world rulers of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
The AI is absolutly land-bound, save for those idiotic raids in BI.
I won't say so. Have not enough EB experience, but in XGM i often witness as Carthage succesfully reinvades Spain after losing ALL its settlements there, Rome grabs Corsica and Sardinia, Pontus often captures Rhodos, etc. And iirc Carthage even has no prefers_naval_invasions attribute in these campaigns!
Now, about ai_not_attack_faction. Please stop bombing me with these "it works one direction only" arguments, because it doesn't mean much! I ask again: what if such two factions sign a ceasefire? Isn't this option re-enacted in this case? And yes, we can't predict all possible situations, esp in the long run.
Considering Grey Death vs Yellow Fever issues... methinks in ideal case we should strive to recreate historical flow of things using subtle controls like faction_relationships and core_attitude, initial armies position and composition and initial ifrastructure, etc. Historically, internal troubles prevented both AS and PE from conquering each other and rest of the Middle East, rather than external threat. We can't recreate these things (except maybe adding wandering rebel stacks in Egypt and such). So, it's better to weaken PE at the start, and concentrate bulk of AS forces in Syria, and then make smaller kingdoms to gang on AS if it beats Egypt too much (either by scripting wars, or even better - making it happen natural way, by tweaking relationships). And in ideal case, AS should lose its eastern posessions, but keep Syria as long as possible.
And in any case we should avoid ugly things like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
The only ones that hav 'mutual' no-attack are AS-pontos and AS-Armenia
Armenia never was a friend of seleucids, a restless vassal at best, trying more than once to break with them. Neither was Pontos. And even famous alliance of Mithridates and Tigranes can't be represented as mutual Pontos-Armenia pact, it was never a sure thing to happen, esp in 3rd century bce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
Also, we can C_script it maybe so that when Human plays -''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' is used more among AI..
afaik it's allowed in descr_strat only
P.S. Will answer tomorrow on Maksimus' list
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Ok, here is my opinion. Note that on many occasions i chose to reply "not yet" only because Maksimus wants to release beta mod "before new year comes". But i don't think that early beta does any harm, as long as we keep number of changes to a reasonable minimum.
1) Never, methinks it's useless
2) Not yet, and probably not in the Lite mod
3) Not yet, and probably never (well, maybe optional in this beta only)
4) HArchers - 1,2 generic and 1,3 elites; 1,1 skirmisher elites like numidians
Elephants - 1,6 hp + power_charge + very_hardy, armor like TWFanatic mod (makes them worth the price)
Chariots - Cidainh 2,2 hp; Scythed 1,3 hp + power_charge (otherwise both are too fragile)
Phalanx - probably never, methinks we can weaken KH using other means
5) Yes, less infrastructure & troops; we can't achieve ok balance yet, but hey, that's beta!
6) Yes, greeks were opressed and devastated at @ time, so less infras and troops
7) Only those related to 5-6
8) see 7
9) see 7
10) (...and maybe in descr_strat) also see 11
11) Not sure if we can do it in time. I will explain later.
12) One oldest FM (usually faction leader) only
13) Not yet and see 11
14) Ok, methinks it's harmless enough
15) Steppe factions to genghis, others will need alot of testing
16) Not yet, and not in the Lite
17) I'd say not important at all, and definitely not in Lite
18) You mean small law bonus or something else?
19) Of course, :) maybe with a little tweak later
20) Hope i'll be able to do this in time :)
21) Not sure, let's postpone it
22) Definitely not in Lite, and probably never (who will do it anyway?)
23) Why?
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
It is good but two problems:
no naval invasions as well as normal version;
many ctd after the wnd of turn, late in the game (Aedui, 220 bc).
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lgk
Ok, here is my opinion. Note that on many occasions i chose to reply "not yet" only because Maksimus wants to release beta mod "before new year comes". But i don't think that early beta does any harm, as long as we keep number of changes to a reasonable minimum.
Since we lost 2 days already I think I am going to do much of Beta myself (according as this list say's)
1) Never, methinks it's useless - We could maybe test this in 2008
2) Not yet, and probably not in the Lite mod - fine by me
3) Not yet, and probably never (well, maybe optional in this beta only) - not fine by me (because we don't have time for testing anymore and it could be used very nice in cases of AS (to Pontos and Armenia) and Baktria (to Saka) and Carthage (to Iberia), also, 'ai_..bla bla' option is one of the ) 4) HArchers - 1,2 generic and 1,3 elites; 1,1 skirmisher elites like numidians
Elephants - 1,6 hp + power_charge + very_hardy, armor like TWFanatic mod (makes them worth the price)
Chariots - Cidainh 2,2 hp; Scythed 1,3 hp + power_charge (otherwise both are too fragile), Phalanx - probably never, methinks we can weaken KH using other means - can we 'try to' tweak 1,1 for low-end hellenic and barb phalanx and 1,2 for medium phalanx and 1,3 for elite phalanx, I am very very very very very positive (and I have tested it) that it is the right thing.. (In autocalc's - phalanx just looses less troops - like it would be the case.. - think it through again please:stwshame: )
5) Yes, less infrastructure & troops; we can't achieve ok balance yet, but hey, that's beta! - well less trops and nice barracks can solve this at the start6) Yes, greeks were opressed and devastated at @ time, so less infras and troops - less troops to KH - more troops to Makedonia in Corint
7) Only those related to 5-6 - I insist you look on the solutin of I proposed for capitols - see in ''Maxbeta''
8) see 7 - ''Maxbeta'' (I only propose it for some cities that have to hold their ground - like Pella or capitols)
9) see 7 - ''Maxbeta'' ( only propose them for Kotais, Pergam, Pella, Sidon)
10) (...and maybe in descr_strat) also see 11
11) Not sure if we can do it in time. I will explain later. - ''Maxbeta''
12) One oldest FM (usually faction leader) only - ok (will do it)
13) Not yet and see 11 - well, the only ones I would move are Aremnians more to Kotais (with+army) and Greek's from Crete to Sparta of AMinor)
14) Ok, methinks it's harmless enough - ok
15) Steppe factions to genghis, others will need alot of testing - Maybe caesar for Makedon?? or Epeir?
16) Not yet, and not in the Lite - ok
17) I'd say not important at all, and definitely not in Lite - ok.. :stwshame: but I think that the price is making it necessary18) You mean small law bonus or something else? - see ''Maxbeta''
19) Of course, :) maybe with a little tweak later - ok
20) Hope i'll be able to do this in time :) - ok
21) Not sure, let's postpone it - ok, still, one +50% would only add maybe.. in real count like only +10 - 15% of income
22) Definitely not in Lite, and probably never (who will do it anyway?) - I will do it, it is easy and I have had consultations in TWC23) Why? - well, we can leave it this way, It's just that in real ancient states - diplomats mostly (and often only) from the capital to any mission :shrug: -- diplomats were much more rere than Spy's or assassins - Diplomat's by my opinion need to worth much more and to be more rare :shrug:
note: ''Maxbeta'' does not include any of those 23 issues - it is for 'view' and 'descr_start.txt' - test :san_grin:
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
I think SEGA made no naval invasions for Alex.exe unfortunatly as well as in the normal version (BI.exe invasions are just a bad joke:wall: )
Have you installed all the fixes for EB 1?
The download link on the main post contains EB 1 fixes in files that are 'hit' by needed changes - not all fixes..:no:
You should go into EB subforum and see all the probs and fixes that Bovi put for download:shrug:
If that does not help - report and I will hunt some solutions :curtain:
EDIT: MY BAD - We just had some VERY NICE NAVAL use by the AI - LOOK at the main post!
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Ok Maksimus, i'll take look @ your "Maxbeta". But here is one thing that i must clear now:
I'm still opposing giving phalanx extra hps... methinks we rather have to address startegic situation in this case/ Btw, you are suggesting WAAAAY too big hp value, even "1,2" is too much for good melee unit - that's 3 hp in total, now you have armoured super-gaesatae for goodness sake! I'd give "1,2-1,3" to HArchers only because they're SO MUCH underpowered (compared to tac-battle performance), and aren't as sturdy as phalangites. And they never seem underpowerd in autocalc to me, so IF they are, then definitely NOT much anyway. Besides "human vs AI" autocalc results can't serve a proof for anything, "AI vs AI" only, and that way it's hard to prove something with mixed-troops factions like Macedon (unlike steppe factions always having alot of suspect troops).
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
and... 1,2(or1,1) for elite phalanx (and medium1,1?) :san_grin:
note:.. you should redo some of that EDU structure so I could know which other cavalry should have 1,1 (like numidians.. maybe Thracians .. anyone) - also, I was thinking of cutting the size of Gaesatae up to one half (so we respect their power given by the EB team but not the unit size that really makes them 'supermen')
also, you don't think (as I do :D) that cavalry should get more 'mass' (because of the charge) - as in the game they just charge and then 'stop' infront of enemy unit as if they hit a wall:wall:
also, in my test's where Hellenic and Stepe lancers got some + 50%(100% would be even better) of attack (like form 3 to 5 or from 4 to 6) - they did not get much of power so the only thing they do get is a 'bit' advance in the charge (that now kills just 30% more unit's in the first charge - offcourse, cavalry still fall's 'idioticly fast' as it is made default)
I wonder why Konny or MiniMe are not around now .. :wall:
:shrug:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
1) 'Scipio Project' (the spawned AI Roman invasion into North Africa) - address
No, won't work.
Quote:
2) 'Scripted War's' that could influence AI expansions - address
Which one? Most of the factions that are bordering each other start the game at war. The smaller factions around AS should not be set at war with AS as long as they don't decide that it is time to split from big mama.
The scripted wars with KH vs. Pontos do not have any meaning because both factions will most likely make peace with each other instead of attacking each other. This part of the script can be deleted without damage to the gameplay.
The scripted war between Rome and Kart-Hadast doesn't really work either, because if the Roman attack on Messana failed (and it will when Rome is controlled by the AI) both tend to make peace, too. That should be changed that war breaks out as soon as the Romans controll Messana.
Thermon works fine (Epeiros vs. KH).
In any occasion in which we script a war in in which both factions are not bordering each other, they will most likely make peace. In any occasion in which two factions are bordering each other they will most likely be at war after some time; in particular if core attitude and victory conditions order them against each other.
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3) ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' - your opinions (Who, Why, How) - address
Should be limited to factions that are always distracted by secondary targets and so loose their primary war.
Quote:
4) EDU Hit Point's tweaks for:
*Horse Archers - address
*Phalanx - address
*Elephants - address
*Chariots - address
*Other - address
Haven't witnessed any problems with these units so far.
Quote:
5) Suppress Egypt early expansion - address
6) Suppress KH early expansion - address
Strictly no. Factions should not be hindered to be successfull only because their historical counterpart wasn't. RTW works completly different than history, because there is no peace signed after a major battle.
After a battle the winner starts sieging and conquering enemy towns and by this creates an "expansion" that had hardly happened in history. And this is not limited to the AI: everytime you start a game with a faction different to Rome or Parthia the game will not follow any historical patterns. Or did you sit on your butt in your Epeiros campaign waiting to be swallowed by the Red Death?
Quote:
7) Barracks Issue in CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
8) Walls Issue in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
9) Mines Issue in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
Factions should be able to raise their core units in one town at game start. Everything else should be as it is, unless someone can point out a serious misbalance in one corner of the map.
Quote:
10) Army realocations in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
13) NEW start UNITS ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
I have allready done so for the Maks, KH, AS and Pt. I have tried with Rome but any changes didn't had any impact on AI behaviour. Another candidate would be Karthago. Everyone else is allready cared for by EB.
Quote:
14) + 1 expirience to all Mercs ''DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT'' - address
12) ''NightBattleCapable 1'' traits in ''descr_strat.txt'' at the start - address
Yes (and the last one is ALX related, wow! :laugh4: )
Quote:
11) Army realocations (+to Dacia, Armenia and Pontos so they make moves) in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
Not necessary. These factions might or might not move with the armies they have. I do not belive that more will make a difference.
Quote:
15) AI Faction characters (caesar, henry, stalin...) - address
Who?
Quote:
16) Rebel faction Characters (spawn them?) - address
Do you mean in settlements? You should use the immortal trait instead.
Rebell spawning on the map is a different topic. For example I think the army near Numantia should be deleted or seriously nerfed, because it first of all kills the poor Lusotanns and not some greedy invader, like Rome or Karthago.
The re-spawning rebell armies in Central Europe should be disbaled too. They are first of all a problem for the AI, because the human player knows of them and will avoid these provinces.
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18) EDB bonuses for some buildings that have none (like Academy and barracks and walls and smith) - address
hmm. All those buildings have a meaning and do not need to add boni that other buildings allready provide. Something different would be the "reduce distance to capital" bonus, that ASFAIK no building in EB provides (roads would be candidate).
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19) Lgk's Money Script - address (not issued before)
Not for me, I allready have one and will do a new one.
Quote:
20) Traits project - address (not issued before)
That is what? There are a lot things that have to be improved with the trait system; but I think this topic needs a project of its own.
Quote:
21) Adding +50% (or +100%) to resource values in ''descr_sm_resources.txt'' - address (not issued before)
Trade, farming? Definitly worth testing.
Quote:
22) Adding some DMB models so they can be added in ''descr_lbc_db.txt'' - address (not issued before)
When you have some, why not.
Quote:
23) Make diplomats more rare and available only after 'core level 2 or 3' - address (not issued before)
Why?
Quote:
24) Add more issues to the list that are forgotten by me - address (not issued before)
I am thinking of making some units available by other buildings than the barracks, without changing the AOR or the possiblities of the factions to raise units (also elites) in general. The units I was thinking of are:
- Hoplites (not Spartiatai). These represent an outdated type of local militia. It should be available in every Greek polis, but KH should more stick to Iphikratians, Thureophoroi and the like. So, when Hoplites are tied to, for example a level 3 town hall for KH they will be not so common in KH armies, because this would require an advandced town while everything else can be raised everywhere.
- Poeni Militia. Should be not so fast available for Karthago to prevent the White AI from spamming its army with this unit that was only meant for close home defense.
- Gaesatae. Should be tied to a level 3 temple or something like that. That would very much hinder the AI from spamming them without preventing it from raising other good units.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Ok, konny, just a few quick comments on some issues.. (I will be here in about 6 hours again)
About 'suprression' of KH and Egypt - the idea is not to 'work against them' but to make some factions around the last a 'bit' longer (in these cases Makedonia and AS, well, in case of Egypt - the whole world acctually :laugh4: ) - but the goal is not to make them 'weaker' - but 'more balanced' so that in 200bc AS still holds Syria (and Makedonia - Pella)
About Mines! - I followed your advice to add mines close to small faction's rebel regions so they could have a chance to advance (like - Sidon/Pontos, Kotais/Armenia, And maybe 'Big Prize' in two Indian cities :grin: - that would really make them more.. 'interesting to conquer':curtain:
'Scripted War's' should go in January 2008
EDU tweaks can be optional for players (and so should be everything exept ''descr_start and C_script'' - do someone would maybe only like to use ''NightBattleCapable 1'' :shrug: )
AI Faction characters: like ''genghis'' for stepe factions (saka, sarmatia, parthia).. ''caesar'' for maybe macedon and ''stalin'' for Epeiros, and ''mao'' to Egypt (or ''napoleon'' but not ''caesar'' as default - this way Egypt has much better bias then AS - and anyway, It is hard to belive that Aegypt raised much more heavy infantry than AS in that time period..)
And is there a possibility we make ONE EBBS script - like some compromises around??? But in 2008 - ok!?
And I think ''immortal'' trait can solve the problem of Rebel Generals - ok, that is in beta now :san_grin:
EDB bonuses can be tested further in 2008
More issues to the list that are forgotten by me - 2008
Or if you want I can add some right away - just say what and where - FAST :yes:
And Traits project - are ethnicity project for rebel generals so the have bonuses when fighting against some factions - like those in North Italy would have bonuses aganis Romans, and some in the Balkans - against Hellenes.. etc, it could be applied for human game too..
SEE here (Traits project examples) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=136159
Oh.. yes, I forgot, I was thinking of adding some 'diversity' for officers from RTR - you know we have premission - but for units that don't have any officers maybe.. will see.. any suggestions??? :D
more in 6 hours
Tonight I will be testng much - very much :boxing:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
I think the army near Numantia should be deleted or seriously nerfed, because it first of all kills the poor Lusotanns and not some greedy invader, like Rome or Karthago.
I would condition it I_LocalFaction instead of removing. It was one hell of a pleasant surprise in my Lusotannan campaign; but I agree that the AI can't bear it. :yes:
.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
In all mine tests AI-controlled Lusotannan routinely capture Numantia circa 240-230 bce. I'd blame it on my money script. ;-) AI faction tend to be more cautious under Alex, accumulating more troops before they go on conquest, and often leave a lot of them to guard home territory (most typical example is Armenia). Such behaviour is likely to bankrupt small factions using original EB or konny's script.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
.
That's even better! :yes::yes:
.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre
I would condition it I_LocalFaction instead of removing.
It should first of all not be in if Kart-Hadast is human. Sounds a bit odd, but I have it in my ongoing K-H campaign: After the Lusos had attacked Numantia they are more or less done for. The Numantians have moved on Lusotannian lands and butcher every army that the Browns send around.
The Lusotans don't have any army that can deal with this monster.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
One of the ways I picked up one of those eastern barbarian provinces as Romani is because Epeiros did most of the hard work fighting off the constant rebel spawns. They took one of the towns as well, which made it much easier for me to take it from them.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
I need fast comments about the ''command'' atribute !
What are your special units that should have some.. I would add it to some stepe elites (we know that when King Darius wanted to take control of the Stepes he wrote that (aside the fact that they were ''ghosts'') the Stepe people fight ''following'' and aroung the couple of the bravest in their tribes - and allways)..
And also do you think Hypaspist and/or 'some' other units (like that all factions have atleast one with 'command' atribute)
By now the only ones that have that atribute are:
Cidainh (celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards, celtic chariot cidainh), = britons, slave
Calawre (celtic infantry calawre), = britons, slave
Carnute Cingetos (celtic infantry carnute cingetos), = gauls, slave
Cwmyr (celtic infantry cwmyr), = gauls, britons, scythia, slave
Kluddargos (celtic infantry kluddargos) = britons, slave, gauls, scythia
Rycalawre (celtic infantry rycalawre) = britons, slave
Drwdae (celtic infantry drwdae) = gauls, scythia, britons, slave
Lugian Swordsmen (celtic infantry lugian) = britons, slave, gauls, scythia, germans, dacia
And the only explanation I got from an EB member was
''Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX
It's mostly used for the Casse to simulate their style of fighting, which was based around small groups of 'Champions' who inspired nearby more run of the mill soldiers to hold out a bit longer. The command attribute just gives a small morale bonus to troops around that unit. If you look at your list you'll notice that only the Carnute Cingetos (who are druids effectively hence their morale boosting attribute) and the Lugian Swordsmen aren't troops from the British Isles.'' AND
Casse units are in fact weaker than most others, they're probably the most lightly armed and armored faction in the game (only the Sweboz can compete and they have other advantages).
''Why should we give the attribute to random successor units? They didn't fight in the style were representing at all and none of the Hellenistic historians, myself included, has seen any reason to make use of the command attribute for them.
In short, the answer I gave you is a good answer. If we were just tossing the attribute out to make units stronger than you'd have a point, but we're not, we're using it to simulate a particular style of fighting and the celtic historians in EB are pretty happy with it. If you'll notice Casse elites are fairly weak, and come in small units, their primary purpose is to shore up the morale of regular line infantry''.
That is not good for me, I think 'we should' 'Give away' a 'FEW' more 'command' atributes in EB EUD (SUGGEST) !
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Bad karma. You guys are rushing new ideas before testing the old ones. Only essential for beta!!
Maksimus, drop it now. Methinks only 1st cohorts deserve command attribute w/o question, other nations may have hero cults as well, but it doesn't mean these heroes were ever organized into distinct units, except chieftain (aka general) bodyguards. And it's not in scope of Lite mod anyway.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
ok... :stwshame:
It's just that I would like to do more and more in this two days now..
Anyway's I can make one first cohort in a matter of minutes, I would use roman legion and only add an eagle and some + to value and to number (like in vanilla) ??
Oh.. and I got new's ..
Look how the cities look now..
(the last one is a joke :D)
The idea is to make ethnic compositon of various factions, like Baktria would have even some Indian people in larger % then AS, that could have smaller % of black people, ... etc
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
me again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
1) 'Scipio Project' (the spawned AI Roman invasion into North Africa) - address
Cancelled
Quote:
2) 'Scripted War's' that could influence AI expansions - address
Delete all existing, please, they ain't worth it
Quote:
3) ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' - your opinions (Who, Why, How) - address
This option is great for permanent alliance only. Do we know of any factions that loved each other that much? No.
Quote:
4) EDU Hit Point's tweaks for:
*Horse Archers - address
*Phalanx - address
*Elephants - address
*Chariots - address
*Other - address
Small african species - leave it as it is (they are small and come in large quantities) + hardy
indian species - 6 HP + very_hardy.
no to power_charge. Have no idea what this is, elephants charge is devastating as it is and sends people to the moon.
bigger african species - big question. Did they really exist?
chariots - 2 HP
no HP tweaks for humies and horsies
Quote:
5) Suppress Egypt early expansion - address
Giving them more "peaceful" AI personality - yes
Quote:
6) Suppress KH early expansion - address
No, perhaps Makedon major start stack needs to be increased a little.
Quote:
7) Barracks Issue in CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
Level 3 MIC in capitals only, AS with two level 3 MIC as the only exeption
Quote:
8) Walls Issue in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
No changes
Quote:
9) Mines Issue in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
Now what is wrong with those? no changes
Quote:
10) Army realocations in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
No idea.
Quote:
11) Army realocations (+to Dacia, Armenia and Pontos so they make moves) in ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
No.
Quote:
12) ''NightBattleCapable 1'' traits in ''descr_strat.txt'' at the start - address
Ok and Ok for all factions to play use night battles
Quote:
13) NEW start UNITS ''CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT'' - address
Only there where it is necessary for AI.
Quote:
14) + 1 expirience to all Mercs ''DESCR_MERCENARIES.TXT'' - address
Ok
Quote:
15) AI Faction characters (caesar, henry, stalin...) - address
Yes. Yellows and Greys need to be less agressive, nomads - more. Romans need "prefer sea invasions". List may continue and require separate tread.
Quote:
16) Rebel faction Characters (spawn them?) - address
No idea. I don't care about them.
No.
Quote:
18) EDB bonuses for some buildings that have none (like Academy and barracks and walls and smith) - address
No. Being not happy with your cities at the beginning is the part of the gameplay, Maximus.
Quote:
19) Lgk's Money Script - address (not issued before)
I shall wait for Konny new edition and then compare
Quote:
20) Traits project - address (not issued before)
What exactly? Discussion on this requires separate tread.
Quote:
21) Adding +50% (or +100%) to resource values in ''descr_sm_resources.txt'' - address (not issued before)
No. In mid and late campaign nobody has difficulties about those ;-)
Quote:
22) Adding some DMB models so they can be added in ''descr_lbc_db.txt'' - address (not issued before)
Yes, if we are positive alex DMB limit exceeds rome DMB limit
Quote:
23) Make diplomats more rare and available only after 'core level 2 or 3' - address (not issued before)
Will change nothing. Ahistorical - even village is capable to send a messenger to another village.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
That is not good for me, I think 'we should' 'Give away' a 'FEW' more 'command' atributes in EB EUD (SUGGEST) !
I don't think that we will ever be able to make a mod together. That is first of all because we have different oppinions what needs to be tweaked in EB and what is best as it is.
@ Maksimus, is there any part of EB that you do not want to change? For me EB is close to perfection and only needs some minor adjustements in regard of the preformance of the AI factions, some very few changes to some units to deal with problems arising from the AI spamming units that are meant to be rare, an workaround of the trait system to prevent from the spamming of contradictionary traits, and other the like minor changes like the short_pike atribute for Hoplites. When I go through your lists I have the impression that you want to change everything in a mod that has allready changed everything of RTW. And by this, I begin to question if EB is the right mod for you at all.
This ALX project was meant to make EB fit for the ALX.exe, but had lost its way somewhere between this how many pages.
I am out. I don't see the point in discussing every day ten new ideas that have nothing to do with this project and of which about 9 ideas are changes that I don't want to implement in my game. That is, I do not just don't want to spend time on making all these changes, I wouldn't even download this mod once it is finsihed.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Konny, I will comment;
I think that the biggest problem was your approach to this work - mainly because you belived that there will be some minor tweaks in a few days and that it is done, AND WE said that there will be ALEM ('AlexanderLiteEBMod') and EAEM ('ExtensiveAlexanderEBMod'),
the Misfortune is because I always asked questions and questions and questions about all I wanted to hear from you - but in most of the cases - it was About EAEM,
Anyway's, I like EB very much - but I think much of that part has to be tweaked.
If I may say - I am very sorry about your decision,
Still, the mod will live on,
@MiniMe, are you clear that most of what you are suggesting is just negation:shrug:
1-EDB bonuses for some buildings that have none (like Academy and barracks and walls and smith) are not about only law, but some trade, expirience.. It will be ok for the beta anyways
2-To Make diplomats more rare and available only after 'core level 2 or 3' was my idea that some important and rare figures such as diplomats are not sent from a village to a village but from one kingdom to another (as it is the case in EB) - anyways, I will drop it - ok
3- We have positive alex DMB limit that exceeds rome DMB limit - see the screens above (I have added women from RTW and figures from ALEX game - Indians)
4-Core units can not be build in City Barracks level (that is level 3) because it leaves most civilised factions underpowered (the barbs have clear advantage with level 3 mic - while hellenes don't)
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
Small african species - leave it as it is (they are small and come in large quantities) + hardy
indian species - 6 HP + very_hardy.
no to power_charge. Have no idea what this is, elephants charge is devastating as it is and sends people to the moon.
bigger african species - big question. Did they really exist?
chariots - 2 HP
Power_charge extends time of charge bonus being applied, not the bonus itself (and is a real necessity for scythed chariots, if not elephants). And leaving 2 hp is way to little even for small beasts, otherwise they're slaughtered by just 1-2 volleys of javelins. Bigger africans exist in EB, so we have to address them as well. 6 hp is absolute minimum for any elephant - AI doesn't know how to use fragile shock units properly (human can always have a houserule of limiting his elephant corps).
There is another method to make beasts and chariots less vulnerable (adjusting the size), but it has its own problems like artillery becoming totally ineffective and such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe
no HP tweaks for humies and horsies
...
Yellows and Greys need to be less agressive, nomads - more. Romans need "prefer sea invasions". List may continue and require separate tread.
Personalities have nothing to do with agressiveness, they're about buildings and troop types preference. To "make nomads more agressive" we need that HArchers hp tweak (which you stubbornly decline and fail to understand at all). To make factions less agressive there is no way other than crippling their initial infrastructure and armies and possibly move FMs around. Romans naval preference works good under BI; not sure about Alex, but it won't hurt anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
I am out. I don't see the point in discussing every day ten new ideas that have nothing to do with this project and of which about 9 ideas are changes that I don't want to implement in my game. That is, I do not just don't want to spend time on making all these changes, I wouldn't even download this mod once it is finsihed.
Oh, no! They killed konny!! :laugh4:
Maksimus, seriously, let's test all the edits one at a time whenever possible. If we implement too much, we'll never know which ones turned out to be essential, and which ones were useless and unnecessary. Purely cosmetic things like women in DMB are ok for extended mod though.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
@lgk: lovely
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
4-Core units can not be build in City Barracks level (that is level 3) because it leaves most civilised factions underpowered (the barbs have clear advantage with level 3 mic - while hellenes don't)
Friend, your latest post confirms my recently stated judgement that you need more EB gameplay experience before you start modding it. Level 4 own MIC is essential for barbarians, not hellens. Hellens steamroll with level 3 own MIC. However, I feel that you'd be convinced in it only after you'd achieve it or see it yourself. Same goes for many other issues you feel necessary to raise.
Anyway, this discussion for various reasons (some of them previously addressed by me and some by other people) seems to descend to a state that I feel unable to support.
Once again, I thank you for your promotion of RomeTW-ALX.exe :yes:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
You are out? No? Yes?
I don't understand anymore :shrug:
Anyways - when bete comes out (until the end of 31 dec2007) will you test it?
другови још увек?
Ти мој друг?:curtain:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Hi again Maksimus.
I have been playing EB under ALX for a while now. I strongly feel that Konny is correct to be honest. Making ALX compatible with EB (minimal crashes etc) should really be a priority. Personally I am very happy with the way most factions except AS and the Ptolies behave.
Fixing their MICS to be 'non compatible' would be all that is really needed along with perhaps some modifications to make rebels stronger. You have done a great job so far :2thumbsup: but please don't ruin it by trying to do too much that isn't really needed! To be honest if a lot of those changes came in I would seriously have to think about playing it myself.
The EB team have done an incredible job balancing the factions and creating realistic recruitment areas and balanced units and many of your proposed changes may well have disasterous effects on gameplay.
There is no need to create scripted invasions for example.. the AI Romans get everywhere too quickly as it is. Roman domination by 200BC? I don't think so (in reality), however this seems to happen very often in southern europe. I really like the way MICS work at present also with the level 1-4 setups working very nicely. I cannot but feel fiddling with them would result in much less immersive gameplay.
Obviously this is your show and you can do as you please, but it has such great potential it would be a shame to have to go back to RTW (BI is very poor).
Alternatively, create a 'ALX Lite' mod that only provided compatability for ALX and EB and none of the other proposed changes in addition? The garrison retraining feature makes it worthwhile by itself.
Cheers mate and keep up the good work.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Thank you for comments Perturabo :yes:
Still I must comment now so you can understand what this is all about:grin:
First of all - I would not call this my show only because I gathered up the team :shrug:
The point of this thread is to modd EB based on ALX.exe (and for EB 11 it will be on BI and RTW.exe)
Most of the tweaks that you think will ruin your game are ment for EAEM (Extended Alexander EB Mod) - that is not the 'Lite' one (ALEM) that is comming beta in a day or so..
So no need to worry (anyways if you want - I can tweak the files you prefer to play for you- if they are optional and small:yes: )
Tweaks that Konny was talking about are small 'optional' tweaks - that would not balance the game anymore than it is already (exept if you don't count any EBBS edits - which was not the case - editing and modding on EBBS can make the game much more unbalanced than in tweaking 'Campaign_script')
So by all means, I have a question of what is a small tweak for you? well? - Small tweaks are not 'small' always..
For example; ''Immortal 1'' trait (that will be in) is very important to keep rebel genereals alive so you can't take any rebel region easily after they die - but that does not balance the game much - it can only make it more interesting for 'some' battles.
Next; ''NightBattleCapable 1'' trait enables your generals to fight at night - but that you can manualy add in ''descr_start.txt'' (as I instructed the players in the ALX.exe engine post) for any general you like - so If 'we' add it to some - someone would not like it maybe :shrug:
And the Last is; ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' command in ''descr_start.txt'' - Well, this command in 90% or all tests has NO sense on vanilla EB balanced for RTW.exe, the AI will not react well in any case if you don't move armies around and add some units where they are needed (like Syria for example)
So in all the cases - The same problems persist: Sick Egypt and KH expansions, Stepe factions destroyed very easily, Romans expand to North Italy very quickly etc..
So, the changes that should 'intend' to 'balance' the game are the ones that deal with those issues - But most of that (if not all) is in plan for 'Extensive Alexander EB Mod' - not Lite - but that does not mean we wont touch the C_script :(
Lite mod will be beta in a day or so and it will only contain only OPTIONAL *txt FILES !
1-'descr_strat.txt' and 'CAMPAIGN_SCRIPT.TXT' (that work as a whole)
2-'Tweaked EDU' with only hp tweaks to HArchers, Elephants, Chariots
3-Some new traits that enables the rebel generals to give more resistance to various attackers
2-'Tweaked EDB' that mainly adds small/and some bonuses to some buildings (mostly to the ones that have none)
Anyway, I would like you to test it for a day and then say that it is bad :shrug:
Ok?
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
You are out? No? Yes?
Yes, I'm out of discussions on anything else besides RomeTW-ALX.exe
Quote:
Anyways - when bete comes out (until the end of 31 dec2007) will you test it?
I'm afraid I won't have time for it. Before 1.1 is out, I'm pretty happy with my Ptolemaioi campaign, though I've already achieved victory conditions. Late period with few really strong and overdeveloped empires is my favourite part and I strongly advocate you try it for youself sometimes
Quote:
Ти мој друг?:curtain:
despite all the differences between our opinions on EB - sure :yes:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
ок..
Still, you can always give it a Casse spin for a few turns : D
thank you, anyway, I will upload ''pure'' *txt files for the ones that only want to see ''nightBattleCapable 1'', ''Immortal 1'', ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'', and Lgk's money script , - this will be Liter then ALEM :laugh4:
Anyway, that will not change anything, more deeper alterations are needed for ALX.exe balance :shrug:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
This is for LGK:
In the linky I posted to you .. you should balance the greece if you like by moving the spartans FLeader from Karia to Sparta (and by adding a few Spartan units in Greece)..
also, for testing use enabled ''Campaign_script''
;console_command toggle_perfect_spy
to
console_command toggle_perfect_spy
So you can follow the development of AI
will be here in 6 hours
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
It should first of all not be in if Kart-Hadast is human. Sounds a bit odd, but I have it in my ongoing K-H campaign: After the Lusos had attacked Numantia they are more or less done for. The Numantians have moved on Lusotannian lands and butcher every army that the Browns send around.
The Lusotans don't have any army that can deal with this monster.
.
They should spawn against/attack only the human player is what I mean.
.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre
.
They should spawn against/attack only the human player is what I mean.
.
"Attack only" doesn't work, unfortuantly, because it starts wandering around in Spain and will most likely end up on Lusotannian lands. So, spawing should be limited to Lusos are the human faction, if any. I think it can be delated anyways because the human player, safe for his first game in this corner of the map, will most likely attack Numantia with two full stacks after allready controlling most of Spain and so won't have so much trouble with it.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
We just can't go beta today, there were some unexpected traits bug's yesterday and now is to late to test :wall:
Anyway's - as a happy NEW year we made some new Loading Screens (beta stage)
alem beta ls.7z - 9.21MB
Enjoj
note: these screens are made as a wish to promote the 'quotas' of EB, quoatas that are in the shadow of very detailed vanilla EB Loading Screens (which I like anyways)
Happy New Year My friends!:san_wink:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
I've been doing a little modding myself on some minor files, and must say my respect for modders has gone up a lot (already had a massive respect for the EB team :egypt: ). An incredible amount of work involved in it all.
Looking forward to the final version, though the current ALX seems to work very nicely indeed, bar the CTD post battle.
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Nah.. dont worry - I will upload 'pure' vanilla EB ''descr_start.txt'' for ones that don't want to use ALEM - The only tweaks in that *txt will be Traits and ''ai_do_not_attack'' faction and ''NightBattleCapabel 1'' for some older generals - so almost NO changes:square:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Are changes to the MIC for Selucia/Egyptos easy to do?
Pls note I only want to make them different from each other to prevent expansion, I am happy with everything else about the MICs at present.
I might try a bit more modding, the only problem with a lot of the work I have done is that when EB1.1 ships, if any changes to desc_settlements are made I will have more work on my hands.
I will give the full ALX mod a test when it first comes out anyway, as long as nothing too 'radical' has taken place :p
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
Nah.. dont worry - I will upload 'pure' vanilla EB ''descr_start.txt'' for ones that don't want to use ALEM - The only tweaks in that *txt will be Traits and ''ai_do_not_attack'' faction and ''NightBattleCapabel 1'' for some older generals - so almost NO changes:square:
Maksimus, actually these ARE radical changes and no square smiley could help hide this fact.
Adding ''ai_do_not_attack' option is not about transferring EB to RomeTW-ALX.exe it is about YOUR ideas about faction relations in ''descr_start.txt'' and thus belong to EAEM.
Remove it, please.
One more thing: I'm going to solve EB model sharing problem for those who use RomeTW-ALX.exe. To do so, I will edit EB 1.1. descr_model_battle.txt and export_descr_untis.txt and devide such soldiers as hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_machimoi_taxeisphalangitai to separate soldiers hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi and hellenistic_infantry_machimoi and hellenistic_infantry_taxeisphalangitai .
attention! image heavy
Methinks that perhaps it could be a good idea to finally start two separate treads in EB unofficial modding projects subforum
1. "Playing EB with RomeTW-ALX.exe";
2. "Maksimus Extended AlexanderEBmod"
and close this one cause further constructive dialogue here is impossible to continue due to the total mess it has turned to be
Cheers
MiniMe
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
MiniMe - you dont seem to understand what is in motion here
No one can stop you of making another 20 threads in 'EB unofficial modding projects subforum'
But:
1. "Playing EB with RomeTW-ALX.exe" IS DONE! See herehttps://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94861, that is ALL one needs to play EB with ALX.exe and it has over 167 downloads total.
2. "Maksimus Extended AlexanderEBmod" - Well, That is wrong, Because,
It is 'Alexander EB Team' - ''Extended AlexanderEBmod'' that Lgk and I are working on. And ALEM (Lite mod) is worked on very intensive basis for the last couple of days - so this is the right thread (+ Konny is out - so the left founders are Lgk and I - we don't have to ask you for premission but just an opinion on the mod, and you are very active on opinions so that is ok, What is not ok is to make some kind of attacks on me and Lgk because we are moding our mod:shrug: I think that is not very nice of you my friend)
And I will not open another thread - I had my PMs with MAAntonius and he was very clear that 'Alexander EB Team' should have ONE and ONLY thread in this subforum if we want to make EB minimod (supported by EB team) because we are not so powerfull to have a hidden forum :gah:
And one more note here:
Further constructive dialogue is possible to continue but not in the way of making simple negations and protests when you don't like something - I have already droped couple of my ideas (I strongly wanted) just so I can get along with the others and that is very positive!
This is not a mess - this is Alexander EB Team Mod thread discussion !
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perturabo
Are changes to the MIC for Selucia/Egyptos easy to do?
Pls note I only want to make them different from each other to prevent expansion, I am happy with everything else about the MICs at present.
I might try a bit more modding, the only problem with a lot of the work I have done is that when EB1.1 ships, if any changes to desc_settlements are made I will have more work on my hands.
I will give the full ALX mod a test when it first comes out anyway, as long as nothing too 'radical' has taken place :p
That is ok, you can test it and then tell us what you don't like - anyway, the ALEM beta will be out in a few days so you will see it
And no changes will be done to 'desc_settlements.txt' so don't worry, and oh, I have made simple First Cohorts for this beta!
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/...cohortssu8.jpg
And one more note, Perturabo - if you can find a simple solution for Egypt-AS expansion than you let us and EB team now :grin:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
"ai_do_not_attack" is going to be optional anyway, balance seems good enough even w/o it
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
That is right, after tests we will say it is ok and/or not, but anyone can make his choice :laugh4:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Just a question: is Egyptos still going to knock out Selucia in your light mod? or has it been balanced?
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
It has been balanced, also, some other things are balanced too.. Let us say that.. This beta is going to be very fine but official Lite is going to be even better
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
One small preview - The Indian generals (rebels) taken from ALX
Also, Pyrrhos Beta! (Alexander model)
The same destiny will go for most of the generals in ALEM beta (where RTR hellenic generals for rebels will be used, still, in full mod those will be re-texture from EB.)
:curtain:
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
OK, so I first try to use ALX.exe with my saved Roman campaign (well, I'll try to add "Immortal" trait to the trait files, at the end of the appropriate sections/files to avoid messing up the traits... and I'll see what will happen.
I suppose I'll wait to see ALX in its full capabilities when EB 1.1. is released, withn named first cohorts added and with all changes prepared by EB + ALX team.
Now I only have to install my Alexander - yet I have the "combo" Polish Platinum edition, including "three in one" - RTW, BI and ALX on one DVD - let's see whether this can be installed exactly where I order it to be installed...
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
That last one is going to be in the advance mod right?
There is no need for him to be in the light mod~:confused:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
Well, It is beta, it's just that we are not sure how 'lite' Lite beta will be.. :shrug:
And we want reactions .. still I hope you like it :(
But don't worry, anything will be done carefull, still, it is a bit 'naive' (dont take it personal it has nothing to do with you :laugh4: ) to belive that there could be some 'simple' tweaks and make nice balance :wall:
And anyway, for 'very lite' users there will be some very simple *txt tweaks based on pure vanilla EB - but then we can not make much of guarantee that for example: Aegypt wont kill AS as early as 220bc
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
Did Alexander make any changes to the way Hellenic phalanxes fight in the game? I mean specifically from an AI battle perspective, not from unit attributes as they should all be in the EB folder anyway, right?
Thanks!
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
There are many AI battle improvements, if you look at the post a bit you could see that various members are speaking of different battle improvements issues.. Like in the middle of the 'town battle' - AI will try to surraund you everytime he has enough army (that kicked my a** a couple of times :wall: .. because I was thinkig AI will never use smart moves during the siege or city defence, well, it proved me wrong)
And about the phalanx specially.. hmmm.. I does not break when there are two or more phalanx? I think that is improved and that it uses now more various angles to attacka another phalanx, also, in ALX CPU phalanx always hits for the infantry (it will not attack archers if infantry is around) + it attacks cavalry right away.. And AI does not spare you in battle - that is for sure one of the greatest AI battle improvements of ALX.exe:square:
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
EDIT: MY BAD - We just had some VERY NICE NAVAL use by the AI - LOOK at the main post!
Actually, that stuff (the Koinon shipping troops, the Qartadastim etc. etc.) occurs with nearly every faction that has it's priorities on mulitple land-masses so to speak.
You will see the Ptolemaioi do this, especially if the Seleukides are threatening enough (requires a human player most of the time); the Makedones might not do it because of the landbridges, but the Koinon will; the Qartadastim will. Right from the start.
I looked at the screenshots you posted and they're nothing new compared to plain RTW without any expansion packs.
Unless me is a very lucky player who consistently sees 'real naval invasions (tm)' being performed by AI factions.
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Re: ALEXANDER.exe with EB!
I hardly ever saw the AI naval use in RTW (maybe I am wrong :shrug:).. Still, AI in the ALX game uses that option all the time, even Macedon it doing the same (from Lezbos to Demetrias :shrug: ).... Still, If I saw that AI uses the same thing the same way in RTW pure (and I think that it is possible so ok), still, I never saw and I think that It will never happen on RTW for AI to transport 6+ or 10+ units from Rhodos to Sparte :boxing:
It is often that during the tests we do (for the upcomming beta), Macedons first kick KH in Greece and than Greece starts to pull massive armies from Rhodos (like, sometimes there are even 10+ units in the 'bush' at Rhodos that go into the ship and off to Greece)
but a note: This is very common in ALX, still it might be just the fact that ALX AI uses those shiped troops in 'grouping' (massive) rather than separate forces .. :shrug:
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Re: ::Alexander EB:: ALX.exe EB mod
A small prewiev of EAEM
Phalanx
:grin:
