The Magnaura

The Basileus rises and addresses the Magnaura.

The Caesar has brought this on himself. He deliberately rebelled against my will, as expressly stated in our constitution. There were not attempts to alter this by you senators, and so he has not only rebelled against me, but against this august body also. Any attempt to defend him is merely talking down this importance of the body, never mind the authority of the Basileus.

Also, I have not seen which way the Asteri and the Order of St. John have declared in this matter. I expect them to decide by the morrow.

Ioannis resumes his seat.

Isaakios slumped in his chair, eyes closed, emitting a quiet, snoring-like sound.

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Originally Posted by YLC

"Savvas, I have never held any enmity towards you, why so bitter? I was not picky in my choosing of vassals Savvas, Methodios is a fine man. But to put any man into such a position is clearly going to raise someones hackles. Sadly, I see no reason why Hypatia had to be married to a man with limited prospects for children. In my eyes, it was done to antagonize Methodios into a rash action needlessly."

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To put any man in such position? What position? Having to marry his daughter to a man she doesn't love?

Love? This is politics. Royal Princesses don't have the luxury of love and nor do their fathers. They only have duty. That is their curse. I never heard Methodios complaining about his promotion into the Royal Family. Now that he has to fulfill the unpleasant duties of his position, he runs away.

I am deeply disappointed in Methodios Tagaris. I always though of him as a man with honor who knew his duties.

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Originally Posted by YLC

"I know my responsibility, you do not need to remind me Savvas. But I am also sure you understand not to be blindly loyal as well, right? Like right now." Nikolaos glowers. "I tire of this, maybe when you have felt what I have experienced, you will realize that petty politics mean nothing when you have a responsibility to more then yourself. Tell me Savvas, are a godfather to any children? Where do you spend most of your time, at your desk doing your work, at the bar whoring and losing your self in your wine, or spending time with those who look up to you and depend on you? What future do my godson Demetrios and goddaughter Chara have, what chance does young Aleksandra, Theodora, and Ioannis Tagaris have? I awiat your well reasoned, sober answer."

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I assume I have many, many children, more then anyone else in this body.

Savvas bursts out in laughter. He continues with a grin on his face.

But I don't think their mothers would fit well into this building.

Anyway, I can only say : irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant. This is not about love, this is about duty.

Love is for peasants.

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Originally Posted by flyd

Don't be fooled, Senators. This is not a political issue. It is an issue of love.

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Nonsense, nonsense and nonsense. Please. Are we going to run this empire by following emotions?

What do you expect from the Basileus? Do you want him to make decisions based on ratio or on emotions?

You may think of me as cold-hearted, but alas, there's no place for love in the business of regulating and running an Empire.

You want love? Resign, hand over all your lands, titles and prerogatives to the Empire and leave for a life full of love. As a peasant...

Noting Isaakios and his reaction, Apionnas nods in agreement quietly saying;

"Excellent, that's the most astute move."

Oh, I almost forgot our dear friend Michail...

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

Michail sighs deeply in his seat, finally finding his resolve, he stands:

"I am unable to choose a side in this debacle, so I declare my independance. I no longer hold allegiance to anyone. I do not wish to change anything, nor do I rebuke my position as a Senator, but I have no oath to the throne. I sit in Epirius, as a neutral state of our Empire. I will defend my territory and will not expand, that I can promise."

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So, Senator of insignificant affairs, after a career spent in House Tep... Tip... eh, whatever... and a life time standing outside a settlement collecting dust and stench of the woods, you now chose to switch your loyalties for the hundreth of time?

What is wrong with you? Is it that difficult to stay loyal to one Lord?

Gentlemen, I am sure that you all agree that this man is an abomination.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: I'd like to assure pevergreen that this is all IC.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

"Ioannis III, I offer my region of Epirus as haven for you, as it is now neutral. I would like to talk to you further, if you decide to accept my offer. My soldiers would protect you as though you were me."

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Epirus is a nice place to build a place in the empire, without having civil war trampling over any lands I may be able to acquire. I would be most interested to discuss this further.

"Savvas, must I explain my entire life story to you? If you ask me to recount it, I shall do so.

Ioannis the Third, I shall contact you in private."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You never need to assure me Andres! I know what happens between mafia players is forgotten when the character/game ends/dies. But until then. Heh heh heh...wait no thats an empty threat, I dont have any power.

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Originally Posted by Rodrico Stak

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Epirus is a nice place to build a place in the empire, without having civil war trampling over any lands I may be able to acquire. I would be most interested to discuss this further.

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I would be careful with accepting Michail's "hospitality". For all you know, he'll train his assassins on you.

Assassins Savvas? I have declared my neutrality. I do not aim to swing this fight one way or another.

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

"Savvas, must I explain my entire life story to you? If you ask me to recount it, I shall do so.

Ioannis the Third, I shall contact you in private."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You never need to assure me Andres! I know what happens between mafia players is forgotten when the character/game ends/dies. But until then. Heh heh heh...wait no thats an empty threat, I dont have any power.

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Which part of your life story?

The part where you are spying for the Organisation or the part where you let your assassins kill off mentors or army units?

"Savvas, if you have some proof I ever spied for the organisation or that I ever employed assassins, please, bring it foward, or drop your baseless claims. In my life I have owed allegiance to two houses, My own and House Kommendouki, which I left due to our current Rulers actions."

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

"Savvas, if you have some proof I ever spied for the organisation or that I ever employed assassins, please, bring it foward, or drop your baseless claims. In my life I have owed allegiance to two houses, My own and House Kommendouki, which I left due to our current Rulers actions."

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I have it on very reliable sources, dear Senator.

"Care to share those Savvas?"

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

Tiverios stands.

It seems that many Senators wish to remain neutral in this matter and I agree. However, the issue remains that the taxes and soldiers from our settlements will be involved in this war unless we do something about it.

I propose that all of us who wish a diplomatic end to this conflict band together. We should lower our taxes in our settlements to the minumum to ensure that our funds are not used to shed the blood of fellow Romans. We should also prohibit the deployment of our garrisons and new recruits outside our settlements so that our soldiers are not involved.

We cannot stop this war directly, but we can starve it.

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Theo nods and says..

I agree with Tiverios here and will do what he suggested. Also, every Senator here ,who wants peace to be restored, should do it as well!

Theo turns and gives some orders to his scribe...

As Megas Logothetes it is my responsibility to point out that robbing the Empire of its finances will mean that construction will come to a halt in many settlements. There's also a war against Venice that has to be waged, which will prove very difficult without money.

I agree with your position, but unfortunately all I can do now is promise you that I will not let it come to bloodshed among Romans. Should my actions speak otherwise you still have the option open to you without needlessly endangering the development of our Cities and Castles.

Nevoulas ek Philadelphius strolls into the centre of the Megnuara. He had been standing for some time quietly at the back. He looks warily at his house leader and friend Ioannis Kalameteros. He then turns to face the Basilues Ioannis Komenus.

My emperor, I know you have heard a lot of complaints from me in the past.

I hope this is an action that proves my true loyalty toward you my emperor:

I, Nevoulas ek Philadelphius declare war on the outlaw Caeser Methodios Tagaris.

Nevoulas turns to Apionnas Vringas and then to Savvas ek Militou.

It seems from your outraged statements that you like me are loyal and humble subjects of the Emperor. I am assuming that you two will also join me in showing your loyalty to the Emperor also?

Nevoulas once again looks towards his own house leader.

Some may wish to 'sit this storm out', I understand their reluctance. They clearly value their own lives over the cause of the empire and the will of its emperor, this is what nearly destroyed the empire in the first place.

With that Nevoulas moves over to sit amongst the Kommandaukai senators.

It is weird that Ioannis' closest supporter, Vringas, haven't joined the Basileus' side. Also, Savvas, you say that you support the Basileus and all that. Yet you haven't answered the *Basileus' call to take up arms and go against that 'Great Criminal and Traitor'. Are you two too afraid of Methodios? Yes, this probably it!

Senators, to my great dissatifaction between loyalty to my house and my lord I have chosen my house. I have broken my oath to Methodios and swore a new one to Nikolas.

Nikolaos turns to Savvas. "Deeply disappointed in a man who has a heart? Dear Savvas, you have none? If we all wanted to base our actions on cold logic, one would assume it would be easy enough to simply walk over to a senator and kill them if they disagreed with you, because not only does that eliminate the opposition, but it wastes nothing: no others have to die, no money need be wasted, and no time be lost in logistics or marching armies. That is the cold logic you presume to use. And on such a note, why not have a duel simply between Methodios and the Basileus? No need to involve the entire empire, let the personal insults defuse themselves in a personal battle."

Nikolaos leans back in his chair.

"That of course is using cold logic, as you propose. Rather though, I see few except people such a Isaakios or Tiverios, are using anything but some form of logic. Each person is biased one way or the other, through the corruption of power or personal experience to one man or the other. Bias is created through the forges of personal loyalty and emotion, and bias has nothing to do with ones duty Savvas.

Nikolaos nods to Tiverios

"I wholeheartedly support your plan Tiverios. My troops and my money will only be spent with war with Venice, nothing else. It is what this august body passed, and it should be done. This august body never asked for war betwixt two men of considerable prestige and character, and nor should it fund it. It wold be an insult to this august body in my eyes to do so, to have the money diverted to shed roman blood, blood it was erected to protect, instead of using Imperial funds as this body has directed."

I'm at a loss to see where my comments have been biased?

If anyone wishes to refute my comments as they relate to the law of this land and might I add generations of Jurisprudence then please go ahead.

The law is and was quite clear on the matter. While I agree that my delivery has been subjective it is ONLY those that ARE biased that could disagree with my stance on the matter. My subjectivity is designed to improve comprehension of the law. That is all.

If you are 'objective' in this matter then it is as 'clear' as case as it could ever be.

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

I'm at a loss to see where my comments have been biased?

If anyone wishes to refute my comments as they relate to the law of this land and might I add generations of Jurisprudence then please go ahead.

The law is and was quite clear on the matter. While I agree that my delivery has been subjective it is ONLY those that ARE biased that could disagree with my stance on the matter.

If you are objective on this matter then it is as clear as it could ever be.

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Apionnas, I never said you were not being logical about this, and I am sorry for not including you among them. This matter, although based in law, has quickly turned into a matter of personal feelings rather then an actual discussion on law. True, it was in within the Basileus right to propose such a union, but even when others tried to find away to at least appease both parties, things quickly turned ugly, as such things will. We are human after all, not mindless, heartless golems, and as such, in an argument like this, personal feelings will invariably come into play, politics, duty, and law be damned.

To say that this is merely about law would indicate that Methodios has no love for his daughter, and to say this is merely about love would be to say the Basileus lacks knowledge of the heart. I am sure no man would say either of these things. And in such matters of the heart, is it not true that it is God the almighty himself who says we should learn to love our enemies just as much as we love our allies?

Oh, come on Nikolaos Aristenos, enough nonsense already.

This has nothing to do with love or other emotions.

Methodios violated the Charter.

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Originally Posted by The Charter

Basileus:
(...)
Powers:
(...)
(10) Decides which Senator, if any, a Princess should marry.

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The very Charter our Empire is founded upon. Such an act equals a declaration of war.

As I said: you want love? Become a peasant.

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Originally Posted by Andres

Oh, come on Nikolaos Aristenos, enough nonsense already.

This has nothing to do with love or other emotions.

Methodios violated the Charter.



The very Charter our Empire is founded upon. Such an act equals a declaration of war.

As I said: you want love? Become a peasant.

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It has everything to do with love and emotions Savvas, or are you just being intentionally blind? Or is it that your hypocritical, and wish us not to see the fact that it is only the Basileus Ioannis Komnenos who may violate the charter, as he did so many years ago. He managed to escape unscathed from mistreating an entire House, but when Methodios violates a small section for his daughter it's an uproar. And if my memory serves me correctly, was it not the Caesar who declared a war on the Order because they displeased him? He dragged his entire House unwillingly into it as well. Methodios has done what he can to insure that no one else has been hurt by this, and yet he must absolutely be Satan himself because he defies the will of the Basileus in the name of love.

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Originally Posted by YLC

It has everything to do with love and emotions Savvas, or are you just being intentionally blind? Or is it that your hypocritical, and wish us not to see the fact that it is only the Basileus Ioannis Komnenos who may violate the charter, as he did so many years ago. He managed to escape unscathed from mistreating an entire House, but when Methodios violates a small section for his daughter it's an uproar. And if my memory serves me correctly, was it not the Caesar who declared a war on the Order because they displeased him? He dragged his entire House unwillingly into it as well. Methodios has done what he can to insure that no one else has been hurt by this, and yet he must absolutely be Satan himself because he defies the will of the Basileus in the name of love.

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If your memory serves you well, you will also remember that the Basileus apologised to the Order and accepted a peace treaty.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Ignoramus, post 1442

Returning into the diet, Ioannis Komnenos indicates his desire to speak.

"I must apologise to Antypatos Makedonios Ksanthopoulos for the grievous insult I dealt him. He is well within his rights to seek satisfaction, though it was of my making. My action was foolish and unbecoming of my rank and position.

Though I fear I cannot make it up to him, I offer to provide the Order with 5 catapults from Nicaea in order to strenthen the eastern frontier. I had neglected the the Syrian frontier during my tenure as Megas Logothetes, and must do what I can to make ammends.

I also apologise to this august body for my proposed violence in order to restructure the empire. You have a natural right to despise me, though I trust I may regain your respect.

To my father, forgive me. I deserve banishment for my words to you - such disrespect borders upon treason. You may do with me as you will.

I believe in order to display my sincerity, I must step down from the leadership of the Komnenodoukai. Rest assured that Anypatos Chrysovergos is a true soldier of the empire, and will guard our lands well.

I believe inappropriate to listen in on my judgement, and will retire to my quarters. My scribes will relate all the relevant information to me.

Ioannis Komenenos bows and walks slowly out of the Magnaura

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If your memory serves you well, you will also remember that not only did he apologise to the Order for his harsh words and his violations of the Charter, he also accepted the punishment that was in those days called CA 2.1 and now reads as such (bolded the part added by said ammendment):

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Originally Posted by Charter

Once during his reign, the Basileus may automatically assume the post of Megas Logothetes. The Basileus must declare he is exercising that right at a Senate session; he will then be appointed Megas Logothetes with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Basileus may also compete in normal Megas Logothetes elections at other Senate Sessions. However, Ioannis Komnenos (OOC: Family tree spot 2.1) is barred from automatically assuming the post of Megas Logothetes. (Added by CA E2.1.)

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Ioannis Komnenos apologised, got punished and accepted the punishment.

Therefore, I say: let the past be the past. These matters have been dealt with appropriately.

It is in no way a justification for Methodios' violation of the Charter and declaration of war.

Nikolaos sighs.

"Forgive me, I grew to rash in my argument, and I withdraw my statement. Nonetheless, are we so foolish as to go to war, over one woman? Over one marriage? Are we to be controlled by our passions so much that we forget ourselves, our loyalties, and our duties...and make war upon ourselves? We call the German Emperor the false emperor, but yet they do not suffer from going to war amongst themselves for such a petty reason. If anything, Methodios should be punished, but an entire people? If we want to use reason, lets use reason: Methodios suffers a punishment fitting through the letter of the law.

So Savvas, what would be a fitting punishment to you? In fact, what would be a fitting punishment to any of us? Savvas is right, Methodios did in fact break the law, but we must also take into account whether a civil war is actually the right action, which to me it is not.

No armies have marched yet and no battle is about to be fought. Before we cry mourn about the death of Roman soldiers we should wait and see what the Caesar has to say about the matter and whether this can not be solved in a civilized manner.

I declare my netriality.

Again I will day this.

I understand the personal aspect of the situation.

But, as it applies to the law there is simply no room for that to be considered.

Tiverios nods to Pavlos and speaks.

It is unfortunate that the new Megas Logothetes has to assume his postion under such difficulties. I believe him a good man and I have no ill will toward him, indeed I voted for him.

However, the Basileus has acted in a polarising and aggressive manner. He has once again helped to propell us towards Civil War. Barring an Emergency Session, an option available to only a few in this Chamber, there are only so many ways that Senators such as myself can legally protest these events; I have decreased my taxes and closed Constantinople for outside recruitment. I understand these actions are not precise and will effect the Empire on other levels besides this nascent Civil War.

Still, the voices of those who desire peace must be heard! If we merely speak in the Senate, we are easily ignored, but we have taken action as well. Taxes will be fully restored to the Empire once the Basileus begins acting as a leader and not as a bullying tyrant.

Aleksios stands looking over Tiverios...

Senators, wise words have been spoken by Tiverios. I feel the same towards our newly elected Megas Logothetes and it is an unfortunate situation. The law has been broken but the means are unjustified at this time.
I have long waited for a war with the west it is now here and I feel I cannot go and fight because of the concerns for my lands. Our enemies must be laughing at us with such pettiness.
I will support Tiverios's action and close all outside recruitment in Corinth till a better decison is made regarding this matter.
There is a more just way to punish this individual instead of every Noble in the Empire. If an emergency session is required then those men that have the power must act now.