He was not solo at the time. He had teammates, or did we kill them so fast you forgot? :P
The answer to your question is, the same reason they claim cop sometimes. To survive a lynch (even if only one lynch) and then use the doctor as an excuse as to why they still live.
But this game don't have a cop. So he wasn't gonna crumb cop, right. So he crumbed vig instead, anticipating the game had one.
They have only very limited use out of claiming doctor. Doctors always have to die. If he can claim vig at the critical moment, he can draw a lynch away from someone and onto someone else. Particularly, the town vigilante, if they suspect the game has one.
With one death? I don't think so.
They were not lock scum at the time. He was still arguing until Zack flipped that Zack was town, for example. Many people still had skeptical face.
All of those plans got shot to hell when Zack did.
OK, as I further consider this, Pizza, please tell me you realize that you look a lot like D3 Pizza in Visor's small game?
Are we still reading Slaan D1 or does the whole case ride on the proposed fake vig claim?
10-12-2017, 03:10
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Someone other than Pizza explain why Slaan was claiming D2 rather than idly speculating, why the specific fact of suggesting a town vig and a mafia vig on top of mafia NK is a tell given the events of D2, N2, D3, N3, and how any variation of this could have been a plausible strategy following the events of D1.
When 1 of your buddies is dead and 2 look like they're hanging, he was defending Zack on day 2 and prepping a vig claim for day 2 to save GH.
He doesn't have a more plausible strategy other than waiting to be the only scumbag left and soloing the game.
This was Slaan's way of upsetting the apple cart and getting non-GH and non-Zack deaths, but GH was not save-able.
And then when Zack died, that gambit had to be abandoned and buried so no one would remember it.
10-12-2017, 03:11
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Are we still reading Slaan D1 or does the whole case ride on the proposed fake vig claim?
If you think he's vanilla townie, you think he was crumbing a shot on choxorn while suggesting the mafia have 2 kills.
Okay, believe that. I don't.
10-12-2017, 03:13
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Monty I wouldn't have even found the post if it weren't for you asking about his crumbing.
Thank you.
10-12-2017, 03:24
Dp101
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I still think there is a doctor, a full doctor, because a strongman killer makes no sense against a gift giver / inventor role that will likely give out 1 doctor protection.
It's possible the strongman is just to counter the inventor's doc gift, but that makes such a role for town really really weak.
A one shot doctor is super weak anyway. It's highly unlikely to make any impact on a game.
Strongman only makes sense to counter a full doc.
Completely missed this earlier, sorry for being repetitive in my doubts.
10-12-2017, 03:25
Montmorency
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
When 1 of your buddies is dead and 2 look like they're hanging, he was defending Zack on day 2 and prepping a vig claim for day 2 to save GH.
He doesn't have a more plausible strategy other than waiting to be the only scumbag left and soloing the game.
This was Slaan's way of upsetting the apple cart and getting non-GH and non-Zack deaths, but GH was not save-able.
And then when Zack died, that gambit had to be abandoned and buried so no one would remember it.
What I present below is evidence that if there was a plan to save GH, it was never implemented in any stage. During N1, Slaan said he would always lynch GH over Chox D2:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
I have a simple theory about GH rn. The Wild West game on MU was in a similar D1 state if Chox is mafia with two mafia being in the crosshairs of town right from the start and both got killed in the first two days. GH was the third wolf this game and bussed the partner that died D2 on D1 but tried to get off him D2 and onto Fred instead... in the end nothing worked out quite right (though the game was very close till then end, ending with a coinflip costing GH the game)
Anyway, so now he looks at a similar game with 2 of his partners (potentially) being in towns crosshairs yet again.. and he doesnt want to be with his back against the wall again so he starts earlier to try and get town off his partners, delay their lynches if at all possible.
Thats my working theory anyway rn in regards to GH... though I would always lynch Chox over him tomorrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
Wish that you die so you can get some rest or wish that you survive? :D
I'll head to bed as well, so in case me gets ripped let me give you my current list:
The big middle pack I'll need to sort out and have no strong feelings about one way or the other. I'm totally fine with pizzas points on Winston and kage/dp were looking good regardless (I got a bit sus of dp after his CFD comment but after Logic flipped mafia that looks very good for him).
The scummy points towards GH and Chox havent changed, I'm looking forward to hear from GH today. Manasi is just not playing like I'm used to, she is normally very chatty and active and here it's just ... well not much which pings me scummy.
Alright, gn8 all :)
Yes, Slaan isn't present much over early D2, but he continues to push GH (at least in theory):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
Boy I'm just overall bothered by GH this game... just skimmed his ISO and nothing makes sense.
- Randomly votes around. First Csargo, then me, then on Cuth which was a seriously vote apparently (since afterwards he tried to get other ppl on it) but didnt bother to give a reason (Post 477). Maybe I missed it since I only skimmed but I dont think so
- Post 487 bothered me, it suprises me that he read me and Fred so strongly even though GH saw a max of 3 games from me apparently (Anni, 1 day of Champ game, Wild West)... over the duno how many games you guys had here on the Org.
- His Logic defence being wrong... for most ppl I dont mind them much being wrong and maybe I expect too much but still
- And most importantly: Where is his solving? Today nothing so far, there wasnt much yesterday as well as far as I've seen... I mean I get he has to kinda defend himself today but why isnt he wolf hunting?
He is just playing bad all over in my eyes... which is annoying as I don't see this happening from either scum!GH or town!GH. Only thing I can think of is him being a bit bored for random mafia yet again. Saw a post from Lime on discord lately and GH apparently randed wolf in at least 4 games lately: Wildcard reuinion, The thing, Xcom, Wild West ..
So yea GH, give us something. If you hand us your partners we promise to lynch you last :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
I'd want for GH to do _something_ before he is hammered so I'll keep my vote off him for now.
Sets a deadline for hammering GH:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
There are different definitions? I was referring to end the day early by having (currently) 8 votes on GH which would end it prematurely. Which other definition is there?
I'm fine with hammering GH tomorrow at roughly 24:00 CET (so 24h before the day would be regularly over) if he hasnt done anything until then, as I'd just assume scum!GH to be wasting our time at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
I give GH until next 00:00 GOAT time.. or closely to it. So far he hasnt made any attempt imo to really play the game and I'd imagine if he finally randed V again he'd be all over this game so... yea curious if he will actually show up and do stuff or not.
Asks Zack why GH isn't Mafia:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
Why do you think GH isnt* mafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
So I just went ahead and read every post so made D2 so far and there were only two in regards to defending GH, one where someone else asked you about your townread on GH where you responded like this
and an independed one
And I'm a bit lazy and don't want to ISO you 100% rn to find your D1 defence of GH especially since it will raise questions anyway considering GH's defence of Logic D1 and Logics subsequent scum flip. So please, explain us your townread on GH given all the information we have right now, would be much appreciated.
Notably, the post you condemn him with came rather late in D2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaan
I get it pizza. And I agree (with some minor caveats)... but we shouldnt think us victorious just yet. Suprising things always happen and I wouldnt be super suprised if there is in the end only one wolf under GH/manasi/chox... just because I've very very rarely solved the game after D1 in my 7 years of playing (and arguably when it worked it was mostly lucky guessing ^^). I like rein as town for probably all the wrong reason and would have to check her out again at some point, same with most others. Thing is the ISO function here is kinda annoying and makes me not want to do it...
It's weird, I'm kinda trapped in a game here that's between my homesite and MU. Few good tools to use (same as my homsite) but activity similiar to MU which makes rereading stuff annoying. Also I see a clear path to be taken rn which gives me even less motivation to go and check ppl out again.
I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.
Would Sooh tell us if there is 3p around?
10-12-2017, 03:25
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
I wouldn't have suspected Slaan at all if not for Fredwood directing me to his 5 person rapid POE that I skimmed past, aside from a couple iffy things I dismissed long ago.
I wouldn't be alive to suspect Slaan without the town doc.
I wouldn't have been able to get Zack if not for the town gift giver.
Never would have found Zack and GH if not for dp101.
Never would have felt confident without Winston being all over those three.
This is a total team effort. You all fill in the missing pieces of my crazy ass brain.
10-12-2017, 03:26
Choxorn
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Hardclaim: Gift Giver
I gave Pizza the vig shot, and I gave Dp101 the doctor protection.
10-12-2017, 03:27
Fredwood
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I wouldn't have suspected Slaan at all if not for Fredwood directing me to his 5 person rapid POE that I skimmed past, aside from a couple iffy things I dismissed long ago.
I wouldn't be alive to suspect Slaan without the town doc.
I wouldn't have been able to get Zack if not for the town gift giver.
Never would have found Zack and GH if not for dp101.
Never would have felt confident without Winston being all over those three.
This is a total team effort. You all fill in the missing pieces of my crazy ass brain.
I still take credit for GH >.>
10-12-2017, 03:27
Choxorn
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
I like your thinking. A vig shot sure sounds good right about now. Well, as long as Zack gets to eat it.
This post was me breadcrumbing, in a pretty subtle manner.
10-12-2017, 03:28
Fredwood
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
Hardclaim: Gift Giver
I gave Pizza the vig shot, and I gave Dp101 the doctor protection.
lol
10-12-2017, 03:28
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
What I present below is evidence that if there was a plan to save GH, it was never implemented in any stage. During N1, Slaan said he would always lynch GH over Chox D2:
Saving GH wouldn't mean town reading him. That's the mistake you're making.
GH still gets killed, later. Maybe. If the town brains that want to kill him are still alive. It still rips the narrative away from town and can potentially cause a kill up the POE, away from the normal scums.
Choxorn was thought of as scummy at the time but he was all over every scumbag. That's why they needed to get him before those flips.
Once GH and Zack flip, choxorn isn't reasonably gettable.
Monty, you're amazing, but you're forgetting the timeline and also assuming Slaan has to town read GH to save him or delay his death.
Does not work that way.
He's toasted.
10-12-2017, 03:29
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
Hardclaim: Gift Giver
I gave Pizza the vig shot, and I gave Dp101 the doctor protection.
:daisy: amazing.
Get Slaan.
Someone hard claims doc we can wrap him up and ship him to his teammates.
You had to be protecting Askthepizzaguy on N1 (absolutely) and N3 (probably), I believe, but it makes the theory work.
10-12-2017, 03:30
Montmorency
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
Hardclaim: Gift Giver
I gave Pizza the vig shot, and I gave Dp101 the doctor protection.
I believe you.
10-12-2017, 03:31
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
This post was me breadcrumbing, in a pretty subtle manner.
You were never scum after that post.
You were in the POE while also suggesting that Zack needed to die.
Once he flipped, Slaan should have never ever come at you today as his top suspect.
He accused you of being the bussing wolf, when it was him.
He falsely crumbed he shot you n1.
He tried to get you lynched ever since day 1.
Bag him and tag him!
10-12-2017, 03:32
Fredwood
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredwood
lol
This is not because I don't believe him, just the timing is funny, Poor Slaan.
10-12-2017, 03:33
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredwood
I still take credit for GH >.>
You get all the credits.
This was a town coming together. Basically everyone I can think of made a contribution. Manasi was even on Slaan d1.
Nobody did nothing for town. Nobody.
10-12-2017, 03:36
Montmorency
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
I'll say this: I will take @Choxorn's advice on Slaan. It does make Slaan likelier scum, but I'm still not fully on board the crumbing case.
10-12-2017, 03:39
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
I'll say this: I will take @Choxorn's advice on Slaan. It does make Slaan likelier scum, but I'm still not fully on board the crumbing case.
Baahhhhh
Monty, we are like toast and butter this game. We town read each other and we both killed it with our reads on scums.
We independently helped each other's cases repeatedly.
I don't care if I can't persuade you on this one. You did good, friend. You did really gosh danged good this game.
10-12-2017, 03:39
Fredwood
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
You get all the credits.
This was a town coming together. Basically everyone I can think of made a contribution. Manasi was even on Slaan d1.
Nobody did nothing for town. Nobody.
I'm actually being facetious to an extent. I just want to pat myself on the back for having a true read on GH instead of always being wrong about him.
Welcome to the org! Please stay forever even if you hate the skins, brother!
10-12-2017, 03:43
Fredwood
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
As to Slaan and the pre-crumb post crumb crumbling crumbs I'll have to think more. I have a headache now
10-12-2017, 03:46
Montmorency
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
I actually forgot about that, to be honest, and that's a good point.
I still think some of your posts are a little questionable, but on re-read you overall look pretty good, and I don't really see you being scummates with Zack right now.
So, Zack/GH/? then.
I guess it wasn't PIS.
10-12-2017, 03:47
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Wild ass guess that Cuth or Xiahou is our full doc, due to their low profile.
If so, it's how I caught Logic in that game he was a doc and I was a woof.
10-12-2017, 03:48
Fredwood
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
I guess it wasn't PIS.
Plot induced stupidity?
10-12-2017, 03:50
Dp101
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choxorn
Hardclaim: Gift Giver
I gave Pizza the vig shot, and I gave Dp101 the doctor protection.
Why didn't you give both to Pizza, like, after he did well with the vig, I don't see why you didn't give him control of the doctor as well.
10-12-2017, 03:50
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
I guess it wasn't PIS.
If you need to trade away a whole wolf (and a power role wolf, imo) for one townie, make it one that's suspecting all your partners but is presently lynchable.
Choxorn was the rightest townie with the "bussing"est profile they could pin stuff on after the Logic wagon.
That's why Slaan was crumbing a shot on him, that's why he was willing to hang possibly to get him lynched, and THAT explains the abrasion on your palm!
10-12-2017, 03:51
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Chess - Game Thread [In Play]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dp101
Why didn't you give both to Pizza, like, after he did well with the vig, I don't see why you didn't give him control of the doctor as well.
I can't protect myself with it. You can and you're at the top of the town pile.
Why didn't you give both to Pizza, like, after he did well with the vig, I don't see why you didn't give him control of the doctor as well.
A. He can't protect himself
B. I thought the chances were pretty high he'd be the N2 Kill, and I figured I'd give it to another one of my townreads who I thought was more likely to survive
C. I can't give someone more than one gift
