U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

I know it was meant to deter conservatives from viewing Palin as the messiah, but I don't see that happening. We are just excited from the surprise and we like her style so far. I wouldn't compare her with Obamania at this point.

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Well, hell, when Obama, a relatively new face in Chicago politics, runs for president, Conservatives are shouting "INEXPERIENCE! NO NO! HE'S GOING TO DESTROY AMERICA! HERE COMES THE MUSLIM COMMIES!". But when a relatively inexperienced Alaskan governor is picked as VP, they're practically :daisy: themselves.

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Originally Posted by SwedishFish

You mean torture can't screw with people?

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In fairness to SwedishFish: millions of men and women have killed and hurt many millions of other men and women, and had the same hurt and murder done to them, to get him to the comfortable, arrogant, academic, entitled, place where he lives, safely esconsed in enough boredom to think that their (those millions') sacrifice was a mere gesture of goodwill - not a painful, hard-fought, struggle to attain freedom for them, their families, their neighbors, their fellow citizens.

He is what we've fought for, 'lo these many years.

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Originally Posted by SwedishFish

Well, hell, when Obama, a relatively new face in Chicago politics, runs for president, Conservatives are shouting "INEXPERIENCE! NO NO! HE'S GOING TO DESTROY AMERICA! HERE COMES THE MUSLIM COMMIES!". But when a relatively inexperienced Alaskan governor is picked as VP, they're practically :daisy: themselves.

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Relatively experienced as compared to what? Compared to Obama she's a relative gold mine of experience.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Relatively experienced as compared to what? Compared to Obama she's a relative gold mine of experience.

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Nuh uh.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Nuh uh.

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Uh huh.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Relatively experienced as compared to what? Compared to Obama she's a relative gold mine of experience.

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Well, I'd rather not vote for someone who, as mayor, fired a police chief and a librarian for not supporting her administration :sweatdrop:

Or someone who associates herself with Ted Steven's isn't exactly so smart nowadays, eh?

Well, she may not be getting the Environmentalist vote, seeing as she supported drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And supported biologists killing wolves for mooses :sweatdrop: Or denying the polar bear it's spot on the endangered species list :2thumbsup:

Flip flopping on the bridge issue didn't exactly woo me either.

Man, McCain had better choices.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Nuh uh.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Uh huh.

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Well, I can see why the Backroom has such a high reputation for quality debate.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Relatively experienced as compared to what? Compared to Obama she's a relative gold mine of experience.

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Fine, let's compare the two:

Obama
1980-84 - BA in Political Science (International Relations major)
1985-90 - Community Organiser. During his leadership (3 of those years) the budget grew to $400 000. Moves to Harvard and becomes editor and President of the Harvard Law Review.
1991-95 - Fellow and later Lecturer in Constitutional Law at Chicago Law School. Leads efforts to register African American voters (150 000 in 7 months).
1996-2000 - Promoted to Senior lecturer. Elected to Illinois State Senate, sponsors more than 800 bills. Loses primary run in 2000 for House of Representatives.
2001-2004 - Re-elected in 2002 and becomes Chairman of the Illinois' Senate's Health and Human Services Committee. Speaks out against Iraq. Speaks at Democratic Convention. Elected to US Senate in November 2004.
2005-Present - Sworn in as Senator. Worked with Republican Senator Lugar to author and implement a program to locate and dismantle stray Russian WMD's. Worked with Russ Feingold to pass a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. Cosponsored, with John McCain, the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act. Called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years). Assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs, and Homeland Security. Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa.

Palin
1985-90 - Bachelor of Science in Communications-Journalism (I don't know how that works, but whatever...) and a minor in Political Science. Briefly works as sports reporter.
1991-95 - Elected to Wasilla City Council
1996-2000 - Elected Mayor of Wasilla and re-elected in 1999. $8 million budget. Brings $27 million in earmarks to the city. Constructs a $15+ million hockey stadium with debt-spending.
2001-2004 - Prevented from running for Mayor again due to term-limits. Unsuccessfully runs for Lieutenant Governor. Chairs Alaska Oil and Gas Commission from 2003-2004, also Ethics chair. Serves as chair of "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.".
2005-Present - Elected Governor of Alaska. High approval rating. Challenges Sen. Stevens, but stands by him politically. I know that any of her policies I type in here will just be ignored, so I won't bother, but there are a lot of crazy things out there. Under investigation for firing an Alaska State Trooper involved in a child custody battle with her sister.

CA- all lies and liberal Muslim propoganda.

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

Supported abstinence only programs and having her 17 year old get pregnant.

Cutting funding to special education then having a child born with Down's syndrome.

Karma can really come back to bit you in the backside.

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You know, I have to read this thread and get depressed about the standards of the world's greatest democracy.

But the above is just repulsive. You really take glee in the misfortune of others to this extent, merely because they seek public office? Even leaving aside that these sad events have affected her children - apparently struck down because of Governor Palin's own adult choices.

You sound like the worst of the Phelps' Religionistas.

No wonder the left is despised over there, if that's the level of debate offered. It's a shame, as is 60% of this thread.

(And no, it doesn't somehow make it right that some of the right wallows in this stinking mud either).

:shame:

American politics is like AIDs. I have no idea where I'm going with this, but they both suck.

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(And no, it doesn't somehow make it right that some of the right wallows in this stinking mud either).

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LOL.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

You know, I have to read this thread and get depressed about the standards of the world's greatest democracy.

But the above is just repulsive. You really take glee in the misfortune of others to this extent, merely because they seek public office? Even leaving aside that these sad events have affected her children - apparently struck down because of Governor Palin's own adult choices.

You sound like the worst of the Phelps' Religionistas.

No wonder the left is despised over there, if that's the level of debate offered. It's a shame, as is 60% of this thread.

(And no, it doesn't somehow make it right that some of the right wallows in this stinking mud either).

:shame:

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At what point did I say I enjoyed that fact that Palins daughter is pregnant or her youngest has Down's?

I was merely pointing out the irony of the situation.

What gets me is the fact that the Right can spread lies and half truths about someone, but when the Left brings up the truth about someone it is repulsive.

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Originally Posted by SwedishFish

American politics is like AIDs. I have no idea where I'm going with this, but they both suck.

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There is no cure for either...yet (let's keep some optimism).

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

What gets me is the fact that the Right can spread lies and half truths about someone, but when the Left brings up the truth about someone it is repulsive.

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And what gets me is how the campaign (and a good bit of this thread) have degenerated into what sounds like an argument between two 6 year olds. "He touched me!" "Because he was looking at me!" The tongues oughta be sticking out any day now.

And how about the candidates tell me why I should vote for them rather than why voting for the other guys is scarier. Oh, and to both candidates, "change" and "hope" aren't policies - jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire is a change and a hope...

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

And what gets me is how the campaign (and a good bit of this thread) have degenerated into what sounds like an argument between two 6 year olds. "He touched me!" "Because he was looking at me!" The tongues oughta be sticking out any day now.

And how about the candidates tell me why I should vote for them rather than why voting for the other guys is scarier. Oh, and to both candidates, "change" and "hope" aren't policies - jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire is a change and a hope...

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....and the fact that Palin supports abstinence only sex education and has cut funding for special education are policies, flawed ones at that.

She also supports teaching creation in science classes, which undermines the principles of science.

It would also seem she has a policy of firing anyone that disagrees with her.

All these and more go to show how she in not a good pick for VP and she is not someone I would want to become president if the situation arose.

If you what to know way to vote for them read their plans.

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

And what gets me is how the campaign (and a good bit of this thread) have degenerated into what sounds like an argument between two 6 year olds. "He touched me!" "Because he was looking at me!" The tongues oughta be sticking out any day now.

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LOL. Me, I blame free-agency for this mess.

-edit-
And EMFM's hero had it right:

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Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made.
~Otto von Bismarck

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No wonder the left is despised over there, if that's the level of debate offered. It's a shame, as is 60% of this thread.

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Did you see the front page article the NYT had on her (another hatchet job portraying itself as news), about how she shouldn't try to be a governor when she has children? Or any of the slime-flinging entries at the DailyKos blog?

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Well, she may not be getting the Environmentalist vote

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Wow, the GOP not getting the envirowhacko vote. Clearly unforeseen.

CR

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

....and the fact that Palin supports...

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Gregoshi swings...and a miss!

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

hatchet job ... slime-flinging

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Wow, the GOP not getting the envirowhacko vote. Clearly unforeseen.

CR

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:sweatdrop:

I didn't know it was whacko to oppose legally killing wolves :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

No wonder the left is despised over there, if that's the level of debate offered. It's a shame, as is 60% of this thread.

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Well, I think its more like that the left is despised by the right which will always happen.

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On September 5, the ballot-qualified Constitution Party of Montana submitted its presidential elector candidates to the Secretary of State. The party informed the Secretary of State that its electors are pledged to Ron Paul for president and Michael Peroutka for vice-president. Ron Paul was aware that the party planned to do this, and has said that as long as he can remain passive and silent about the development, and as long as he need not sign any declaration of candidacy, that he does not object.

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Will be interesting to see if this splits the republicans enough to let obama carry montana.

Are the wolves endangered, or are they just a normal animal in Alaska that can do significant damage to humans and livestock?

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Will be interesting to see if this splits the republicans enough to let obama carry montana.

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#($&#, I'd lose my faith in humanity if Obama won Montana. Lousy Californians moving in.

And Sasaki - I'm talking about the people who want to destroy my family's livelihood and want to send humans back to the pre-industrial age.

CR

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Are the wolves endangered, or are they just a normal animal in Alaska that can do significant damage to humans and livestock?

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Apparently, it's neither. It's "For teh mooses!" which could easily be helped without killing other animals.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

#($&#, I'd lose my faith in humanity if Obama won Montana. Lousy Californians moving in.

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Montana is probably more libertarian than republican.

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And Sasaki - I'm talking about the people who want to destroy my family's livelihood and want to send humans back to the pre-industrial age.

CR

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No, you said environmentalists were crazy while complaining about hatchet jobs and slime throwing :smash:

One can be against drilling in alaska and offshore without wishing to send humans back into the pre-industrial age (in fact since we would see no benefits for 8 and 30 years respectively, making drilling neither a short term nor a long term solution, it makes perfect sense to oppose drilling).

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Originally Posted by SwedishFish

Apparently, it's neither. It's "For teh mooses!" which could easily be helped without killing other animals.

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But that wouldn't be as much fun.

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Montana is probably more libertarian than republican.

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Which means Mr. Old School Socialist definitely should not win it.

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No, you said environmentalists were crazy while complaining about hatchet jobs and slime throwing

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I said the only people who will care enough about the polar bear, wolf, and ANWR thing not to vote for the GOP ticket wouldn't anyway.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Which means Mr. Old School Socialist definitely should not win it.

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As I said the last time you complained about the exact same thing - What if they vote on Social issues?

Unfortunately, Montana hasn't been polled much. The most recent was on 7/29 with Rasmussen showing a dead heat 47-47. Their previous one on 7/1 had shown Obama leading 48-43. However, the poll before that was a McCain lead, so it has been fluctuation a lot. Either way, its a close race.

I like to think of it as defeating terrorism by killing all the Muslims.

Are we fifth-column commutards who despise freedom if we talk about Governor Palin's record as mayor?

The biggest project that Sarah Palin undertook as mayor of this small town was an indoor sports complex, where locals played hockey, soccer, and basketball, especially during the long, dark Alaskan winters.

The only catch was that the city began building roads and installing utilities for the project before it had unchallenged title to the land. The misstep led to years of litigation and at least $1.3 million in extra costs for a small municipality with a small budget. What was to be Ms. Palin's legacy has turned into a financial mess that continues to plague Wasilla [...]

"I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities," Ms. Palin said Wednesday in her acceptance speech at the Republican convention. Litigation resulting from the dispute over Ms. Palin's sports-complex project is still in the courts, with the land's former owner seeking hundreds of thousands of additional dollars from the city.

Based on what I'm reading in that font of evil liberalism called "the free press of the United States," Wasilla was debt-free when Palin became mayor. By the end of her term the town had accrued $19 million in liabilities, or $3000 per resident. But hey, she's a tough fiscal conservative, right? And she makes the base happy.

"MSNBC drops Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews from anchor chair... David Gregory will anchor news coverage of the coming debates and election night.... Developing..."

Awesome. Their comments these past weeks have been so inappropriate it has been absurd.