WikiLeaks publishes apparent negligent attack on civillians in Iraq video

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I have... I'm just sayin'.

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:laugh4:

Don't leave us. ~;)

I've got mixed feelings on the guy, he did break the laws of the uniform he put on but at the same time I'd rather not discourage people from breaking stories such as the Abu Graib or Haditha massacre. Though I feel the "Collateral Murder" was justified by the pilots enough people have doubts that I'm actually glad to have it in the open, even if it were presented on a website with an agenda such as WikiLeaks.

Kadagar_AV As a member of the US Armed forces he's subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice which is a bit harsher. I'm not even close to an expert in military law but have gotten the general gist that he'll have to prove his innocence instead of the court proving his guilt as in civilian courts.

He definitely showed some major flaws in our cyber-security though, something which the US should definitely fix. If a lone guy can have access to so much information then the damage someone working for a foreign entity could do is quite shocking. Perhaps we should be doing more thorough background checks for Top Secret security clearances as well.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

:laugh4:

Don't leave us. ~;)

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If you would elaborate enough to make your point comprehensible then, who knows, it might lead to a... debate? Or do you want to solve it with one-liners and smilies?


spmetla, I very much agree with your opening. If people are doing the right thing, then why worry about the truth getting out?

I still want to hear what he has to say though, before I make up my mind. That isn't unreasonable, is it?

Not unreasonable at all, I was just trying to imply that with a military court a open public hearing is unlikely, especially seeing as it deals with 'national security' matters. Seeing as this is borderline whistle blower perhaps the circumstances of the proceedings should be a bit more open.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

If you would elaborate enough to make your point comprehensible then, who knows, it might lead to a... debate? Or do you want to solve it with one-liners and smilies?

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One liners please.

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Originally Posted by spmetla

Not unreasonable at all, I was just trying to imply that with a military court a open public hearing is unlikely, especially seeing as it deals with 'national security' matters. Seeing as this is borderline whistle blower perhaps the circumstances of the proceedings should be a bit more open.

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Very true :)

I would not expect total openness - ie. "these were the secret files he leaked".

Just hearing his side of the story in an interview would however do a lot of good :)

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Very true :)

I would not expect total openness - ie. "these were the secret files he leaked".

Just hearing his side of the story in an interview would however do a lot of good :)

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Not going to happen. Even if the Army allowed him to make some kind of public statement or submit to an interview, his attorneys will advise STRONGLY against it. No defense attorney wants anything to get in the way of their defense of their client. That holds true for JAG officers as well.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Very true :)

I would not expect total openness - ie. "these were the secret files he leaked".

Just hearing his side of the story in an interview would however do a lot of good :)

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Not going to happen. Even if the Army allowed him to make some kind of public statement or submit to an interview, his attorneys will advise STRONGLY against it. No defense attorney wants anything to get in the way of their defense of their client. That holds true for JAG officers as well.

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No, no...I totally agree with Kadagar on this one. I love it when spies reveal everything they steal.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

No, no...I totally agree with Kadagar on this one. I love it when spies reveal everything they steal.

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Me too. I also love the part where the bad guy explains the entire nefarious plot to James Bond and the Woman Accomplice of the Moment.

I just said that it ain't gonna happen 'cause the defense won't want to try a spy case in the court of public opinion. Now, if it had been a journalist who ferreted out the information or even stole it, they might very well want to do just that. But this one? Nope.

I dunno, maybe I just prefer openness.

"I released the video of the murders because I felt it was the moral thing to do" -> is for me better than silence.

"I released XXXXXXXX because it showed the US has extraterrestrial contacts and our president is a lizard" <- is better than silence.

Dont get me wrong, I do not believe the president is a lizard or any such. However, hearing WHY he did what he did might be prudent before I write him off as a nutter. And all we KNOW so far, is that a video leaked of US troops out of control. He is accused fo other stuff, but that is all we know have leaked. From that information, you know, information we KNOW of, I wouldnt say he is a bad guy.

Sure we can fantasize about other things he leaked, but what we have seen, what there is evidence of, I applaud him.


Important note: He might still be a moron trying to be cool on the net. However, I would like to know way more before I make that judgement call.

Well, I might be the only one doing this, but here it goes nonetheless: Well done Manning. As I read the article, I can only applaud what the man did. That man did only what he thought was necessary to use his power to report wrong-doing and overall shady business that has become the trademark of how the USA Foreign Policy operates, since the end of World War 2. He wasn't selling anything to the highest bidder, he was revealing things to a trusted leak site on matters the US was doing its utmost to cover up. Notice he didn't reveal any miscelaneous information. He was there to leak the stuff USA doesn't want to get out so the successive US administrations can't be exposed for the shady dealings they do. It's a pity he was arrested, but I can't wait to see the information he leaked to Wikileaks.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Well, I might be the only one doing this, but here it goes nonetheless: Well done Manning. As I read the article, I can only applaud what the man did. That man did only what he thought was necessary to use his power to report wrong-doing

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With power comes responsibility. It's great to release stuff that should be released, but it is tough to make that call. He was very casual about it--even the hacker who had donated to wikileaks thought so.

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Notice he didn't reveal any miscelaneous information.

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None of the 260,000 foreign policy cables were miscellaneous?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

With power comes responsibility. It's great to release stuff that should be released, but it is tough to make that call. He was very casual about it--even the hacker who had donated to wikileaks thought so.



None of the 260,000 foreign policy cables were miscellaneous?

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Where are they, mate?

If he leaked them... shouldn't we have heard something about it? I am sure that would have caused somewhat of a stir...

All we know is leaked is that video. He is also accused of this other thing, but evidence hasn't been presented as of yet.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Notice he didn't reveal any miscelaneous information. He was there to leak the stuff USA doesn't want to get out so the successive US administrations can't be exposed for the shady dealings they do.

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Do you think he read all 250,000 diplomatic cables?

Personally, I think he should get 20 years for putting Lady Gaga CDs into classified machines. :yes: Add on the 10+ years for espionage afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Where are they, mate?

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If Wikileaks has them, it will probably take a while before they get sorted, organized, and edited. It took them several months to post the vid.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Where are they, mate?

If he leaked them... shouldn't we have heard something about it? I am sure that would have caused somewhat of a stir...

All we know is leaked is that video. He is also accused of this other thing, but evidence hasn't been presented as of yet.

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You know what they say about keeping an open mind...

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Hillary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning, and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,” Manning wrote.

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He admitted to it.

Spies like to brag.

The Army will trace his computer history to see if he had access to these files; that's the easy part. Then we'll know.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

You know what they say about keeping an open mind...

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No? But then I also always wondered what killed the cat.

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He admitted to it.

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We have people admitting crimes every day. Some just want to look cool.

Also, we only have one source, in a case like this, I would like more.

And again, I would like to hear from him :)

What are foreign policy cables? Aren't 260000 cables pretty heavy? Were they long cables or short cables and what does wikileaks want with so many cables? Isn't giving cables to wikileaks theft? How do you know when to cut the cable at both ends so the information is still in it? Am I missing something here? :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Husar

What are foreign policy cables?

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50

ORIGIN SS-10
INFO JUN-03 ISO-00 SSO-00 /011 R
66602
DRAFTED BY: X
APPROVED BY: Y
--------------------- 106551
O 301903Z SEP 73 ZFF4
FM FINANCE
TO FRA EMBA BERLIN IMMEDIATE
INFO FRA EMBA BRUSSELS IMMEDIATE


S E C R E T STATE 194280


EXDIS

FOLLOWING SENT ACTION PARIS, JUNE03, FROM SECSTATE RPTD
TO YOU:
QUOTE S E C R E T STATE 194280

EXDIS

E.O. 11652 - XGDS
TAGS: EU, AL, Merk, Finance
SUBJECT: German bailout



FOR CONSUL FROM X


1. Nicolas says to tell that fat Wagnerian Valkyrie where to stick her bail-out proposal.


<< END OF DOCUMENT >>

This is then translated by a diplomated schooled in the finesses of international conduct into language agreeable to the slightly more disciplined German mind. :book:

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Originally Posted by Husar

What are foreign policy cables? Aren't 260000 cables pretty heavy? Were they long cables or short cables and what does wikileaks want with so many cables? Isn't giving cables to wikileaks theft? How do you know when to cut the cable at both ends so the information is still in it? Am I missing something here? :dizzy2:

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Maybe ask our British friends for a torch to shed some light on this.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Said stuff

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10/10

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Originally Posted by Husar

What are foreign policy cables? Aren't 260000 cables pretty heavy? Were they long cables or short cables and what does wikileaks want with so many cables? Isn't giving cables to wikileaks theft? How do you know when to cut the cable at both ends so the information is still in it? Am I missing something here? :dizzy2:

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Screw the information, have you seen the price of copper these days?

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McChrystal and WikiLeaks: A double standard?

The dismissal of Gen. Stanley McChrystal and the military's detention of WikiLeaks source Bradley Manning seem to be unrelated stories, but one former Marine sees a double standard at work.
Jeff Paterson, the project director of Courage to Resist, an organization that supports "informed resistance" of those who have left or want to leave the Army, believes that Manning, the Army private who leaked a video of an Apache helicopter attacking civilians in Afghanistan, is getting a raw deal compared to McChrystal.


"Here's one case of your average rank and file soldier who is facing a crisis of conscience, with realizing what's really going on with this war on the ground ... he made the decision to actually throw his hat in the ring of public debate, to actually offer a critical critique of what's going on," Paterson said. "And now he's in jail ... and doesn't have the ability to just resign from the Army."


The 22-year-old Manning is being detained in Kuwait after releasing the video and "hundreds of thousands of classified State Department records," according to Kevin Poulsen and Kim Zetter's Wired article. Though he has not been formally charged, Paterson said he doesn't know if Manning will even be able to get a civilian legal defense.
"McChrystal has continued to do what he's done for the past decade, from the Pat Tillman coverup to criticizing the president, yet he has the opportunity to resign," Paterson said. "It's substance versus fluff."

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http://www.salon.com/news/gen_stanle...tal_vs_manning

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"Here's one case of your average rank and file soldier who is facing a crisis of conscience, with realizing what's really going on with this war on the ground ... he made the decision to actually throw his hat in the ring of public debate, to actually offer a critical critique of what's going on,"

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Err...how did he do that exactly?

I hate people like Mr. Jeff Paterson.

Because bad mouthing your boss is exactly the same as stealing and distributing classified documents you have agreed, under penalty of law, to protect. ~:rolleyes: