Just put lots of Militia Hoplites in that town because they've got better defenses than those levy pikemen.
I defeated a full stack Pontus army with 12 units militia hoplites in phalanx mode :)
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Just put lots of Militia Hoplites in that town because they've got better defenses than those levy pikemen.
I defeated a full stack Pontus army with 12 units militia hoplites in phalanx mode :)
Going on the offensive early is key. I attacked Sidon on the first turn. Playing on large or huge unit sizes means you will need the reserves of manpower Egypt can provide. Egyptian cities, as you all know, have a huge growth rate. Cities nearby under their control also benefit from their grain imports. Controlling huge sized Egyptian cities is sheer misery. Even if a player takes control of the various sentiment improving wonders, keep peace in Egypt can be impossible. The manpower Egypt can muster later in the game is formidable. I was able to take Susa in the second turn because for whatever reason Parthia took all its troops out of the city and trekked south. One thing I notice is that eastern infantry do better than they should in autoresolve.
Hello everyone.
I'm newly registered to the Guild, and so as yet do not have sufficient user privileges to start a new thread. This being the most relevant to the query that I joined to have answered, I thought I'd make my first post here. Perhaps a moderator would be so kind as to copy and paste this into a new thread on the Colosseum?
My problem isn't playing the Seleucids, it's fighting them as Carthage (v. 1.3, VH/VH). I don't have the opportunity to play that often, and I'm stubborn and don't like to give up a campaign and start a new one. This explains why this is only my second ever game despite the fact that I've been playing RTW for over a year.
Here's my situation:
It's 114BC. I own all of North Africa except for the Nile Valley and Libya (the zone where Siwa is), although this changes every few years. The Egyptians were wiped out years ago by the Seleucids and Carthage. For a while I help the Nile Valley, at which point the Seleucids turned on me and we've been at war ever since. As regards the Romans, I took all of Sicily and Sardiia some time ago, and wiped out the Scipii. Their last general was assassinated in the Balearic Islands, which has been a rebel province ever since. Towards my Eastern frontier, I hold Cyrene and Kydonia (Crete) as a naval base and occasional source of mercenary archers and hoplites. The Romans aren't a problem as my fleets control the Western Maediterranean and sink any fleets that they launch with the armies that they carry. I also blockade all Brutii and Julii ports, so the Roman threat is contained.
Here's the problem: I've been fighting the same war, and indeed arguably the same battle, for a hundred years or so... Siwa has been besieged, stormed, taken, rebesieged, retaken about a dozen times. The Seleucids have marched out of Egypt and annihilated my armies in the desert, only to annihilated in turn by the counter attack and driven back into Egypt. At sea, my fleets push them back, destroy their ships, until periodically a massive naval counter attack all but wipes out my fleets, so I can't blockade their ports. Since I have to throw all my troops at the Seleucids, I can't expand into Italy, Spain, or even the Balearic Islands.
The tactical problem is armoured war elephants of which they have a seemingly unending supply. Every Seleucid stack has at least three or four armoured war elephant units. These pretty much systematically scare off all my soldiers. Every time, they get stronger. Sometimes, I can wipe out a stack or two by trapping them between two of mine, but eventually the Seleucid numbers will wear these forces down, and I'm back where I started.
The Romans, I can handle without any trouble. But what to do against the damned hordes of armoured war elephants? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Martes, I never had this problem, but this is what I would do:
Stay defensive in Egypt. Built forts, have a mobiule army to destroy them in the desert ...
Make a landing at Antioch. This is usually their center of power. Make sure your army is strong enough, has some onagers, ballists ... and you have enough money and FMs to bribe reenforcements. This should brake their back bone.
Another alternative is to concentrate on Rome. Once you have Italy you have more money and excellent troops. The go for Antioch.
Hire as many Cretan archers as you can, and if you have the time to spare upgrade them with armour and weapon upgrades.
What you do to scare off elephants is put those Cretans behind a wall of phalanxes (your own troops or those mercenary hoplites) and put on "flaming arrow"
Target a single unit of elephants at a time. (Beware though that there is a bug, if you have those archers put together in a group, they won't respond if you order that group to fire at a particular target)
The objective is not necessarily to kill those elephants, but to make them run amok. Flaming arrows do that superbly.
I also would recommend fire arrows on a tactical level.
On a strategic level, I can't emphasize enough the importance of bribing armies. If you have the money, a simple bribe eliminates an entire enemy stack without any losses of your own. Bribe two or three large armies, and it will be some time before they can build up an invasion force again. At that point, advance and take the battle to them. If you take a city that you don't think you will be able to hold, destroy all the buildings the turn before you are attacked. They'll have trouble building up good units if you use this "raid and destroy" method against several of their cities near Siwa.
Generally the Seleucids are pretty rich, so you don't want to get in a bribe contest with them, just use bribes at a key point. Diplomats can win you the war if used properly.
If you don't have money, then I would recommend going for Rhodes straight away. If you already have Kydonia then it should be easy to build an army and you can invade in one turn to avoid losing the army when the fleet is attacked. Rhodes provides so much money (40% bonus to naval trade income) that it is a must have. From Rhodes, it is again a one turn invasion (no risk of sinking at sea) to Halicanarsus (spelling?). Then you can take the fight to the Seleucids through the back door. I would do this even if Rhodes and Halicinarsus are owned by factions with whom you are not at war. You need the alternative invasion route at all costs.
If you continue to be stuck going back and forth over Siwa, you are letting the Seleucids pick the battlefield and you will never win that way.
But he said he's playing 1.3; bribing a full stack that has armored elephants (and presumably a general or two) has to be insanely expensive unless you're still playing 1.0. Maybe once he's taken Rome and all of Greece, but it's not a realistic expectation without that.
Thanks everyone for helping me out.
The bribing option is indeed unrealistic. I'm using up all my money at every turn to keep up the war effort, and build up my cities. However invading Hallicarnassus via Rhodes is a workable plan. Rhodes is currently rebel held. I did try and invade it once, but didn't know what awaited me, which was a full stack of good troops. That didn't work...
However, now I know what I'm up against, I can probably deal with it, although the lack of capability to produce onagers in Kydonia will slow matters down.
No matter. You're right, I need a second front so that the Seleucids cannot concentrate all their forces in the Lybian desert. I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks!
Hmm....I play 1.3 on h/h and I have no problem bribing large stacks. I am generally able to maintain a treasury of around 90,000 denarii, and have gotten as high as 500,000.
I have also bribed cities in addition to full stack armies, although they generally can't be held unless you have an army nearby that you can move in (if not, you can destroy all the buildings and let it rebel- do this to enough of a faction's cities and they are toast).
I find a full stack army can run up anywhere from 2,000 to 8,500 denarii.
If you have less money than that in general, you might want to take a look at your finances. You should be able to make far mor money than you are.
A few things I do (some of which you probably know):
1) Never garrison a city with more than the minimum number of peasants needed to prevent revolt. The only exception (yes, I know, "never" technically can't have an exception) is one or two front-line cities (Siwa, in your case)
2) Build forts that are within four turns march of several cities. Garrison with a full stack army. That army is the relief force if any of those cities are attacked. Note that you do not need to even have a relief force for cities far from the front or the sea.
3) Forget about a navy. I almost never have one at all. It's is an unnecessary expense and adds up quickly. Your diplomats and relief force will stop any invasions.
4) Have a diplomat within four turns march of every city.
5) Get your family members out of the cities. By this point late in the game, they usually just cost you money due to corruption. Go to each city and pull the governor out just enough that you can march him back if need be. See how it affects each city's finances.
6) Think of each area with cities within a four turn march of each other as one province. Only one city in each province should have military buildings of any kind.
7) Move your population around to reduce squalor in big cities and raise the population (and tax income) of smaller ones. Do this by building peasants in the cities with squalor problems and the disbanding them in the smaller cities.
8) Always take Rhodes. The 40% naval trade income is vital.
9) When you have done all the above and have a decent financial base, you can pretty much exterminate all cities you take after that. This gives you large short term cash for bribing or hiring quick all-merc armies, and you can restock the population using the peasant movement trick.
You may already be doing all that, but it seems strange to me that you don't have more money. I have won short campaign game on h/h almost all through bribing.
I find a navy to be absolutely essential. Apart from the obvious transport benefits (it really takes quite a long time to march from Carthage to Alexandria, especially if lumbered down with onagers), it's necessary to intercept naval invasion forces, force blockades and blockade the enemy. Currently, I hold Sicily and Sardinia, and blockade the Romans. This means that all my land armies can fight the Seleucids, while the navy prevents the Romans from ever making a crossing into the two aforementioned islands and Africa. Without a navy, there would be no means of recruiting the Cretan archers. But the defensive shield that a navy provides is essential. Navies can also rescue armies that run into a spot of bother in the Lybian desert.
As for my finances, I must confess to not paying all that much attention. I spend as much as possible every turn on buildings and units, and make sure to build markets, bazaars, etc, not just military improvements. But I generate between 12,000 and 4,000 denarii a turn depending on circumstances, never any more. I admit I could probably be doing rather better.
I will have to try a game with more of a naval presence. I haven't really needed one in any of my games thus far, but maybe I have been missing some advantages, as you point out.
I will give a navy more of a try.
There's also of course the fact that I'm playing Carthage which was primarily a naval power. So somehow it just wouldn't be right to neglect that aspect. But anyway you couldn't. The Romans would just pile armies onto the African coast, you'd never make any headway.
I suppose this belongs in the Carthage forum, but I wanted to let you know that I started a game as Carthage with the intention of taking your advice and making extensive use of naval power. I think I had dismissed naval action int he past because I hate autoresolving, but clearly you are right with repect to Carthage. Sea power makes defending the initial Roman onslaught far easier.
Thanks for the tip! I have wanted to play Carthage, but it has been the one faction that has been difficult for me to play. I apparently think in terms of finances and land campaigns.
Martes, you are in fact a genius. I have stuck with my Carthage game and am having a much easier time of things by keeping the Romans stuck in Italy via naval power. I have every port of theirs blockaded and have closed off the Adriatic. I fight seven or eight naval battles per turn, but have been able to sink every fleet I see carrying an army. Land advancement is much slower than I am used to due to the emphasis on a navy.
Thanks for the tip.
Hi All,
I have recently installed RTW: BI and with updates from there the original game gets more challenging and more fun. I started a new game with Seleucids, naturally...
No more sallying out several times per turn!
Huge amounts of money needed to bribe even small brigand armies!
AI opponents more aggresive! (even though after a year of playing RTW on singleplayer VH/VH they are all llamas...)
Try it again on a slightly more difficult setting with BI :surrender:
seleukid empire is probably most atractive for full scale game, kind i like, to play.
this is for few reasons. improvements you can build is first, all things romans can build you also can, except arena and highways, but you have odeon instead, and later when you confront with romans, their settlements will have arena and highways in most cases.
second reason is financial, becouse seleukids holds more than money making east cost, and when you conquer salamis, money will just keep on coming(until i start invasion on west this is my capital.
third reason is army you can make, cuz there is so many different kind of troops that anyone is to be satisfide. powerfull phalanx(they have very long spears so can beat even spartan hoplites), powerfull horse units, even legionares, not to mention elephants, cuz they are more than tanks in wwII.
phalanx pikemans i use to defend cities, cuz there is nothing that can pas them by, even urban cohort is weak for them, especially cuz i dislike making huge armies, so my troops are usually very expirienced, +4 is some minimum for hot spot cities.
and last thing about seleukid empire is +3 to armour and weapons they can get, if u combine heaphestus large temple and foundry.
but this is all things u need to fight for, becouse every freaking fraction thet have border with you will start war, and most powerfull of them is egypt. my strategy for this is defensive in few turns(although i take salamis), and i leave others to have some regions that just can not defens in begining like hatra, seleucia and sardis. i know you will say "what a hell, there is two wonders there?", well i know, but after succesfull defending of antioch, tarsus, and damaskus, i start blietz krieg against egypt(in few turns i take sidon, jerusalim and alexandria) befgore that engaging some of their armies far from the inavded regons,with some mercs. when egypt is reliefed of this regions, they become very weak, cuz, they have no more money to suport huge armies of best troops and they start to defend themself. in meantime i get oportuniti to recruit katafrakts, and that is moment when my victory is almost certian, becouse in combination of phalanx and katafrakts my armies are inevitable. i rarely use archers, only in defending cities, but only create front with phalanx and than use heqavy cavalry to flank enemy, also good strategy is to seek out for generals and kill them, after this victory in battle is only matter of patiance and fast cavalry.
The very first thing you should do is to hire every mercenary on the Anatolian peninsula and immediately take Pergamum before Greece knows what hit them. They will most likely respond by asking for a ceasefire. Make them pay you a goodly sum of denarii for the honor of your granting them a ceasefire.
Move all of your armies in the Eastern Mediterranean provinces down to strike at Egypt before they have a chance to mobilize a huge army. Take Sidon and Jerusalem outright and hire any mercs that you can find.
Turn Antioch into a major troop production center and build the temples to Haphaestus for all of the great bonuses. At first though, build up your roads and trade buildings. This will start the money flowing. You will probably have one of your Eastern cities besieged by either Armenia or Parthia. This is not a huge setback, your main goal is to take care of Greece and especially Egypt at the beginning. You can respond in a couple turns to the siege of your Eastern cities if you gather the troops from Seleucia and hire any mercs in the area. Have this army centrally located between Hatra and Seleucia to enable a swift response to these incursions.
In the early game you should use your ability to pump out Militia Hoplites to your advantage. Overrun the Greek hoplites and Egyptian spearmen with overwhelming force. You should move on Nicomedia and Halicarnasus ASAP. Halicarnassus is easy to bribe. Around 12,000 denarii and she is yours with no loss of troops. You should not for any reason relent in your destruction of Egypt. Give them a chance to recouperate and you will be dealing with swarms of their armies in short order.
In every province that you do not plan on using for a recruiting center, you should be building the temples to Asklepios, there is a nice trade bonus waiting at the end of this series of temples that will assist you in your inevitable clash with the Brutii and their substantial trade bonuses.
Your main objective in the early game should be to wipe the Egyptians off of the face of the Earth and to assume control over the vast wealth that flows through the Nile Delta region. This combined with the rich trade routes in your home provinces are the foundation of your world empire. With these riches you will exterminate any and every obstacle to your domination.
Seleuzkrieg!
Their is something of a discussion amoung my freinds about the Seleucid military I was hoping you could present some insight into it: Is the Seleucid army superior to the Roman army?
In the late game, they do.
Seleucids have elephants and cataphracts and companions so they defintely outclass them in cavalry. They're equal in artillery. Infantry wise, they have SS pikemen and SS legionaries. The pikemen are an advantage over the Romans because the Romans don't have spearmen or pikemen. But I think the legionaries are slightly inferior to the best Rome has to offer.
I've playing my very first campaign with the hard campaign/medium battles difficulty. I'm having a blast.
Armenians, Parthians, Greeks, Egytians and Pontics attack you early. The Pontics managedto take one city from me, unfortunately cutting my empire in half. However once I've kicked the various small egyptian armies out of my lands I'm going to take it back. Money for me is extremely tight, mainly because merceneries are swelling my ranks. My aim is to try and quiten the northen borders and then go after egypt.
I am not so sure about that. Late Romans get Praetorian cavalry, the best cavalry unit in the game, and archer auxila, which are good against phalanxes and elephants. If the Romans can take care of the elephants and disrupt the phalanx line, they win. If the Seleucid command can disrupt Roman cavalry with his elephants and take the legionares head on with his phalanxes, he wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craterus
I'd prefer Cataphracts any day of the week. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
In a pbem game I'm playing the years 260-250bc with the Seleucids, hard campaign/medium battles. very fun. One particular point: Hold hatra, in my game its been under Armenian siege basically every turn, if they take that they can sprintgobard off of it into your empire. I'm currently working on taking out egypt, i've taken two of their provinces so far, but they have so many armies floating around I dont think i'll get it done before my turn in the pbem is up.
Here is a Army that really PWNTS
4 Silver Shiled Spearmen
4 Phalanx Spearmen
4 Silver Shiled Legions
3 Cats
2 Chartios
3 Eles (Armounded,of course!!)
I use it on RTW MP all the time. I fought over 100+ online with it. it 79-29..
Yeah, but as with most mp armies, that's hard to raise in an imperial campaign. Seleucid strong units appear mostly at the end of the tech tree, so you wont be getting that army for quite a while in a campaign :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
My armies in my campaign are a mix of
2x peltasts/archers
1-3 elephants depending on circumstances
A few units of levy pikeman
A unit or two of militia pikemen
3+ phalanx spearmen
Some merceneries, thracian/bastarnae/barbarian
A couple of chariots
General
I'm only about 20 years in.
Oy, I've just reached the point of my Seleucid campaign where I'm about to enter the middle game. Egypt and Pontus are in ruins, Parthia's harmless and Armenia's being easily stomped by one of my armies. Once their dead and I've taken Crete and Rhodes, I'll stop for a while and build up. Hopefully by then the Brutii will have a strong enough military to give me a good fight!:charge:
I have to say this guide helped me immensly. I probably would have never made it this far without it, and have learned a lot.
And just a tip to other newbies like me: Never underestimate your phalanxes, especially militia hoplites! They can easily hold their own against most low infantry. And they eat Egyptian Chariot generals for breakfast. Even Faction Leaders with 100+ bodyguards!
my Selecius army on MP is now 88-29, I going to make it 100-?? before I retire from RTW/BI next month....
Just wondering your exact year and starting difficulty?Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon Blownapart
Anyway, Seleucids continue to be an interesting camaign.
Brutii will now be even tougher for me because Thrace are their protectorate, the first time I've seen on made. However, more interestingly Dacia where also the Brutii's protectorate however the Brutii, for no known reason, sieged a Dacian city.
In spite of all the advice in this thread, I found it really frustrating to get a decent game going, so here's an ultra-brief guide for those of you who can't rout 4 Nubian spearmen on a crammed city-street with half a unit of peltasts or whip up a million denari in 5 turns or less.
This is for hard/hard, v1.5, short campaign.
First we divvy up the empire so that we can deal with the events in manageable chunks without overcommitting our meager resources.
In the West, line up 4 militia hoplites, head out of the city and buy all the mercenaries you can afford and waltz down to Halicarnassus. Once that's secured, head to Ancyra and snatch that one-horse town as well. Buy more mercenaries regularly, and keep in mind that slingers suck ass in city streets. Once you can build the level III hoplites, build up an invasive force to take out Mazaka and the rest of the Pontic cities. I don't recommend antagonizing the Greeks until after you've dealt with Pontus.
In the East we need to deal with Parthia sooner rather than later. Buy mercenaries and wait until a force of 2 horse archers and 2 slingers head south towards Dumatha. Once they're past the bridge, rush to Susa. The 4 units will be back, but if you simply can't handle them, reload and auto-resolve. This will cripple Parthia, and you now have peace until you're financially ready to build a small army to take out both Parthia and Armenia. Right now, you need the dough on other fronts.
Now for the center. Immediately send you diplomat north and sue for an alliance with Pontus. Then send him south again. You'll need him to bribe off trouble-makers soon enough.
Don't waste your dough on buying off rebels as it's simply not worth it in the beginning. Instead, buy 3 blacksmiths and crank out 6 Scythed Chariots and sweep the territory with them instead. Nothing can stand up to them.
The family member in Antioch needs to hire mercenaries and send them to Hatra ASAP. Do send at least 2 units of whatever you can spare as well, and that'll be enough to ward off the Armenian incursion. If you can't handle it, simply auto-resolve and you'll win. It's either that or you go on the defensive for a looong time, so swallow you pride.
That's for the province. In Damascus, build up militia hoplites and buy some mercenaries and head for Palmyra. 8 units should be enough. Once Palmyra has been pacified send the mercs on to Hatra.
And now for the main event. On the first turn, build a bireme in Antioch, and take 2 militia hoplites and whatever else you can spare and head for Salamis on the 2nd turn. Buy mercenaries if you can find any. Build more militia hoplites in Antioch.
After that, head back to the mainland and Sidon. In my game there were 4 Nubians guarding the city. Then head to Jerusalem. Once she has fallen, you should be well on your way to having a reasonably solid empire. I took Memphis and Thebes before going for Alexandria because it had the plague, and by the time I had taken the other two, the plague was gone. After that I wiped out Pontus and Greece with the western army, and Parthia and Armenia with the eastern group.
All of the above happens more or less simultaneously of course. If at any point you feel that you're sailing in denari and can't build any more, build up a navy, but it's a luxury.
As far as army composition goes, the beginning game is simply the Greek Cities revisited with a truckload of mercenaries tossed in.
My armies were a motley crew of every unit I could hire save Eastern Infantry which blows.
The scream team is simply 10 hoplites and 10 militia cavalry in the very earliest game, but the more archers you put in the easier sieges will get. My tactic is ludicrously simple: put hoppies out of phalanx and off guard-mode, then zoom across the battlefield to get into melee range before going into phalanx, with the militia cavalry just behind them. They toss javelins, or go into hammer-and-anvil at the first opportunity like Greek Cavalry. 5 of them can take out a chariot unit easily, whether scythed or archer.
Once you got the East secured, you can build up a real Seleucid force instead of this cheap-ass Greek army knock-off.
Yeah, Try to get Eles Fast,so you can take their armies out..