My poll showed that most people are going to buy BI ~:cool:
Ach, sorry about that campaign Franc :stars:
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My poll showed that most people are going to buy BI ~:cool:
Ach, sorry about that campaign Franc :stars:
I don't consider them to be a hard faction to play , only first few battles are hard ...Quote:
Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
You are still welcome ~:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
Play this faction before you play the Seleucids, otherwise Carthage will be boring after you establish sicily and spain, because this faction's unit roster is like that of Seleucids but not nearly as fun to play with.
Well, Carthage and Seleucia are identical in situation, but Carthage is mildly easier than Seleucia by virtue of less factions ganging up on you at once. Main differentiation is in the culture differences and the naval component, I guess. That's about it, though.
I agree, even though you do get ganged up on in carthage as well, that starting elephant makes kicking the scipii off sicily quite easy, then as long as you have a decent navy (which as everyone else says here, you need to for carthage), you're laughing - no one is getting back onto sicily. The selucids have to deal with egypt right away, and although that is done easily, those pesky parthians, armenians and pontiacs (or whatever the people from pontus are called), just won't leave you alone!
...i believe they are pontics.
Pontiac was a name of a famous American indian chief, brand of car, and a name of a Midwest town I think. ~;)
Pontiac is a town in Michigan, if I recall correctly.
The Indian leader Pontiac was the biggest threat to US expansion during the early years of the republic. Wayne beat him at Fallen Timbers.
The Pontiac line of cars may well be on the way out.
Carthage can do some interesting things with elephants and fleet mobility...its one of the few med powers that can launch an invasion of Rome via Britain while still holding a med power base -- though that kind of strategic end run might be tough in a multiplayer strategic game.
...huh? invasion of Rome via Britain... how does this have anything to do with Asia Minor? The strategic confusion overwhelms me, I'm afraid. This is way too roundabout a route to me to have any valur whatsoever.
Seamus, your knowledge never ceases to astound me. Nothing like you to remind me that I'm not the smartest person around, though sometimes I like to think that, egotistical bastard that I am :) I still remember Idistavico...or was it Idistavino? Idintavisto? Aaah whatever. I remember it.
Hello all, this site is incredible, I wish that I'd found it sooner.
The second campaign I ever played was Carthage on m/m. It was a complete doddle, I don't know if I was just lucky, but my starting faction leader guy lived to the age of 112, and had a string of good traits. He was without a doubt the best character that I've ever had in any rtw game. He died peacefully while laying siege to Rome.
The campaign all in all was great, sacred band cavalry are devastating, and I had one or two memorable moments.
What secured the whole of Italy for me was landing two full stacks including elephants right between the Julii capital and Rome, I was attacked about 6 times in the space of 4 turns and wiped out most of the SPQR and Julii army by simply defending my spot in the middle of nowhere. Then I laid siege and progressively squashed the lot of them.
I didn't make one single alliance throughout the game and was pretty much at war with every faction that I met. Maybe m/m is too easy with Carthage.
Lol...the way your faction leader died amuses me for some reason. Sacred cav rock, oh yeah... Did you take the Gaul route, the Italy route, or the Eggy route?
Personaly, I like the big naval invasion of Italy the best. Landing 2 big armies to take Rome and Capua. The Scipii and SPQR will be gone. Work your way down and kick the Brutii out of Italy, rebuild, and take out the Julii. With Carthage, you can take out the Romans so quickly.
Taking the rest of Africa is unimportant. It is so poor and the distances between settlements is a real pain. I take it eventualy though just for the settlement count. After I take Italy, I start working my way north and and spreading out into barbarian land. I invade Spain from the north and with my army in the South. While this is happening, I usually an army or 2 land at Sparta and work my way up in Greece. Once you take a few cities their, you have enough of a power base to go wherever you want. You can go north and hook up with your lands in Italy, or you can invade Turkey. I did both but Turkey was less important to me.
They main thing with Carthage (at least in my stratagy) is to take key regions like Italy and Southern Greece, and fan out in all directions. Once you take out the Romans and Macedon, the hard part is over. Your Sacred bands just steamroll over the stupid barbarians. Of course, you could go and fight egypt, but I prefer to let them rot in the corner.
Which they will absolutely. That is, with the SE as their victim, so don't be surprised when they come to visit your settlements in Asia Minor...Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbanator
anyway, as far as Africa is concerned, the Eggies only ever turn their attention westwards IMHO when you play Numidia. Thus, Egypt is in effect a fine blocker on your Eastern flank.
however, Egypt in most of campaigns moves gradually Siwa-Cyrene-Lepcis Magna-Thapsus. They will eventually reach you if you leave them to rot.
After I had Numidia I started on Spain, then while I was working my way toward Osca I surprised the Romans with some heavy stacks in central Italy, then I took that central army and progressed towards the east, and with the army in Spain I pushed north / north east, feeding both of them with fresh infantry from Carthage and cavalry from Sicily. Gaul was a walkover.Quote:
Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
As far as overall gameplan / strategy is concerned... I don't think it really plays much of a factor in an m/m game with Carthage, you simply kill everyone in your way. Will probably revisit it again sometime on a harder difficulty level.
Ya, I ususaly just set a feild army around Swia to ward off any attacks. But more importantly than that I set a diplomat along my boarder to defeat their army. One thing that I don't want with the egyptians is a war. Their navy could blockade half of my ports (and sea trade is very important for Carthage) and Swia can't really produce the troops you need to take the offensive. I try to ally with them and I bribe them only to avoid a war that I don't want. I am usualy more focused on my campaigns in Western Europe and Greece by that time. It is impracticle to raise an army to defeat the egyptians when you could just let them rot.Quote:
Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
Though it is nice to have Memphis, Alexandria, and Thebes...
well as far as I can tell the Eggy leaves you alone if you don't touch Siwa. leave it to the Numidians and ally with Egypt, this was what I meant with a flank guard....don't ally with your neighbour (they aren't prone to do so anyway), ally with your neighbour's neighbour. ~D
another possibility is to conquer the Nile valley plus maybe Petra...and you won't have much trouble defending yourself there.
Once you have taken Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes its pretty much over for the Egyptians. Best way is to just drop in three invading armies by sea while friendly with the Egyptians and take those three cities when they aint looking and its just a matter of mopping up the remaining towns at your leisure.
Sorry, missed this one for a bit.
***Idistaviso, I think. I have no doubt that you can name almost all of Rome's greatest malf-ups. ~:) As a side note, I find Carthage interesting as a faction. Virtually all of the Western factions, Barb and otherwise, are infantry factions. Carthage was of Phoenician stock, yet they never adopted the infantry as their key tool. Carthage always fielded more infantry than anything else, but the cavalry was key -- more akin to Macedon or Persia.Quote:
Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
Aye, true. I just went a-reading through Adrian Goldsworthy (or Goldsworth) and his monolithic work on the Punic wars. Amazing how much I've forgotten about the First Punic War.
But yeah, I take your point on fleet mobility...
IMHO Carthage is one of the easiest factions to play. You can make an alliance with Spain, Gaul, and Numidia and these alliances will hold for a time if you do one very important thing. . . kick the crap out of Rome.
The army on the Island of Sicily, without any additions is powerful enough to take out all of Rome except for the City of Rome itself. In fact with that army you can conquer every sea-port city on the map!
Carthage has a built in Blitzkrieg in their elephants. They can move quickly from a ship up to the city and batter down the walls and seize the city before the enemy can bring up troops to reinforce it. You will enjoy a rapid population boom in any of your cities with generals by doing this.
In the first turn I load up on my ships and I move to attack the Scipii mainland city. Once I have that city I write a letter to my mother several times and give it away. I then move back to Sicily and take that Scipii city and Voila the Scipii are destroyed in about 6 turns. Now you need only lay siege to Syracuse and wait for them to sally and crush them and kill the general and the city is yours. Probably 2 turns for that.
By now you should have plenty of cash and population in Carthage to build lots of units. I like to go to Kydonia and take that city for fun and then to Rhodes for the wonder. Plus keeping a general on these islands means I can recruit Cretan Archers which make life sooooo much easier for Carthage.
Now I can move my first little army around Italy and destroy each of the factions one by one. If the brutii have not moved across to Greece you can destroy them in 1 turn. I like to keep those cities and keep a general in them. Make sure you put a spy and a diplomat with your general so the Senate doesn't bribe him. Any general you put in there will get great loyalty ancillaries from the Romans trying to bribe him.
Now move you ships to Segesta and take that Julii city and then to the rest. Make sure you retreat to your ships and don't move overland because you will be vulnerable to attack. Yes you can beat the enemy but taking losses means you can't blitzkrieg because you have to replenish your troops.
Meanwhile you should be rolling in dough and population. Carthage can produce more elephants and you can duplicate your blitzkrieg army using Balearic Slingers that you have hired. It's important to use these guys instead of your own crummy slingers. Your slingers have poor range and cannot shoot well over walls. Cretans of course are the very best. Damn they're sexxy!
Numida has 2 coastal cities that are easily taken. Then move quickly to the inland city and they are wiped out in the west except for remnant armies which will probably move east to their last city but if not you can bribe them or kill them at your leisure. Move a ship east with an army and a diplomat and take the last city.
Spain is all coastal cities and can be taken rapidly and held easily. By the time they seige the cities you have taken you will have taken the others and they will be trying to move to intercept you but they can't because you are using ships.
Carthage can conquer every trade port city in the world with elephants, merc hoplite or their own phalanx, some merc archers or merc slingers, and a general.
Numidia either will or wont ally with you. Its not a given they will. And when they do it only lasts for so long before they inevitabally attack you since you are so close to them. Generally I'll take them out first just to get them out of the way and secure my backside.
Spain is somewhat the same way but their alliances will hold much longer. Also through my experience once the alliance is broken its pretty much broken forever. After that the best I usually get is a neutral ceasefire. Spain doesnt seem to be very forgiving towards a second alliance.
Egypt can be a powerhouse as well if they decide they want your lands. Often they dont do much other than hang around your border but if Selucids are dealt with already Egypt tends to come right for the throat. Also the game AI seems to think once you get to big with whatever faction you are playing it tends to start throwing other factions at you. Just my opinion on that.
In the original RTW ideally its always best to take out Rome as quickly as possible no matter the faction you choose because they are expansionists in the truest sense and become a powerhouse the longer you wait. But if Egypt, Numidia, and Spain all decide to fight you early on its a long hard fight before you can effectively deal with Rome.
I have found that with RTR 5.4.1 playing Carthage is more enjoyable. Rome takes longer to become a powerhouse so you have more time to deal with Numidia, Spain, and even Egypt if they encroach on you. Also Carthage starts off in a better situation than in the original game.
Not bad, Slicendice. Basically a reproduction of katank's Carthagian Blitz strategy but nonetheless worthwhile.
IMHO this approach takes most of the fun out of the game as your main opponents will be beaten by around turn 20. Thus, from there on it's basically a simple run for the 50th province (if you steer clear of Egypt) which will end this unspectacular campaign. It's more entertaining to conquer Sicily plus maybe South Italy and ward off further Roman attacks....but alas, why make things more difficult than they need to be? Smash them. It's the best you can do.
Got it! :thumbsup: If you expand too fast (or play as the Greeks), no one will ever like you....Quote:
Originally Posted by Skott
Not very realistic (who wants to be the target of a surging empire?), but at least reasonable in terms of game design: If all the world would cave in before you when you become mighty, what reason would there be to play beyond the, say, 30th province?
...not much. As Greeks by the time I reached turn 30 and 40 provinces I saw no point in playing on because there was simply no answer that any faction could offer to my armoured hoplites or greek cavalry. Strange but true. Carthage has the potential to become very boring because if you follow the katank strategy Carthage will be producing Sacred Bands before long, and after that the game gets rather unfun.
Yes, there is the potential for the game with Carthage to be very boring because of all of the 'weak' enemies that you fight after the Romans are dead. Crushing the spanish and gaulish armies don't make for the most epic of battles. I enjoy going out and fighting the best that the enemy can offer. I will often times go 'hunting' with a young family member. I will give him a few good troops and have him hire mercs along the way. I use him to hunt out and destroy full stack armies and pilliage settlements along the way. It is very fun and gets you a very good general.
BTW, this is my first post on my brand new computer with a 19inch widescreen gaming monitor, 200gb harddrive, 1024 ram, and an ATI/Radeon Xpress 200 graphics card. It is a very nice computer but I might just get another video card.
also, this is my 100th post :balloon3: ~:cheers: :balloon:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbanator
Yes, thats why I DLed the RTR 5.4.1 mod for added replayability. The mod team made changes in starting cities and other features that makes the game a bit fresh and challenging. I just wish someone could improve the AI.
Congrats on the new PC!
I played the Carthage faction in RTR 5.4.1 and I gotta say it was much more enjoyable than in RTW 1.0. The Numidians put up a better fight and so do the Iberians (Spanish). Rome doesnt bother you from the start like in the original game because they only have two towns in Italy at the start. The Greeks however do cause trouble early on because they have a stronger starting position than in 1.0. They have two towns in Sicily and two towns in Southern Italy and they have an elephant unit at the start!
I found it challenging but not so bad it was boring. The mod team made a good balance I think. I hear in RTR 6.0 the Carthaginians are even more fun to play. Havent tried that mod yet. Still playing RTR 5.4.1
Well, I'm using 6.0. Currently playing with Carthage and I'm totally convinced. I don't know 5.4.1, but compared to vanilla rtw, it's a lot more fun to play. You start out with 14 provinces...the Romans are confined to middle Italy with Pyrrhus knocking at their door, of Sicily's four cities two are independent and the Numidians...well, they just have two poor provinces in the desert but that didn't prevent me from smashing them first. Still not quite sure though whether the effort was worth the outcome.
As for the Iberians, they put up one HELL of a fight and I am strugglling for my last vestage in Spain.
Overall, you position is much more versatile as before. You actually can choose what to do next and are not left with the alternatives of either an endless war with the Romans (if you contend yourself with Sicily) or a boring middle and end game because of a quick sweep of the same Romans (katank's blitz).