Pike & Musket TW ( XVI-XVII mod) in the RTW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

I´m just thinking. There are 10 provinces in Scandinavia. So Western Europe will be a nightmare. Because the north is relatively spaced and has a small population. All those German states, plus detailed Habsburg empire, plus detailed Flanders and France will make it almost impossible to conquer Everything, and the 50 province limit is going to be achieved with a very small territory.

Besides, what about the resources in each province?

---

Well, you say it will be a nightmare, and I think it will depend on which faction you play. Conquering everything with the Dutch will be a nightmare for sure, but take the Ottomans and it's a different thing then. The 50 province victory condition is no problem, you don't have to obey this rule after all. The provincial triumph value will have to be properly reduced I think.

And about the resources, I'm not yet touching that as the entire region arrangement is not ready yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

And whatever you do, keep Luleå as the capital for Västerbotten. It's a good choice and my home city. Got in a very good mood when I saw that.

---

Ha ha, I can imagine! ~D

Regards
EC

Quote:

---

The 50 province victory condition is no problem, you don't have to obey this rule after all. The provincial triumph value will have to be properly reduced I think.

---

Reduced? You mean increased surely. Because, if the provinces are smaller, everyone will start with more provinces, so it will take less to get to the limit.

EDIT: I just thought about this: How is the marriage going to work in this mod? the generals at this time are in most cases NOT related, so it loses its main function.

I have to say this is the most promising looking mod in development at the current time, you all doing a great job of putting this whole thing together. That said, do you have an estimated release date for it? Anyhow keep up the great work and Im greatly anticipating the release! Any further interesting info you might have, please mail me at james_vee13@hotmail.com

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

Reduced? You mean increased surely. Because, if the provinces are smaller, everyone will start with more provinces, so it will take less to get to the limit.

---

Well, reduce is what I meant. It is so because as there will be more provinces in our mod compared to vanilla RTW, then I think it would be sensible to reduce the importance (triumph point value) of most regions eg.
vanilla region x has a triumph value 3, and on our map it is divided into three regions each with a triump point 1 (more if it was some particularly important region). This, however, does not mean 90 percent of regions will be of triumph value 1. That was just an example. I hope that now you know what I mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

EDIT: I just thought about this: How is the marriage going to work in this mod? the generals at this time are in most cases NOT related, so it loses its main function.

---

It's RTW mod and so generals have to be in some way related to the royal family. It's something we have to live with. All we can do is to decide to whom particularly they are connected and how (marriage or adoption). But the trick with adoption is that in game an event that you can adopt sb can be changed to sth like "you can promote sb". Still, the characters will appear in the family tree as relatives of royals. For now I can't think of any way to change this thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iron-Chef

I have to say this is the most promising looking mod in development at the current time, you all doing a great job of putting this whole thing together. That said, do you have an estimated release date for it? Anyhow keep up the great work and Im greatly anticipating the release! Any further interesting info you might have, please mail me at james_vee13@hotmail.com

---

Thanks a lot for the kind words Iron-Chef! ~D There is no estimated release date, but I believe it will take some months. It's a big project and to do it right will take a lot of time. As for mailing the news to you - I don't think so buddy. If you want to know what's new - view this thread from time to time. I, personally am not going to mail people who wait for this mod and send them news. I find it strange you asked that. But perhaps there is someone else who wants to help you on this one.

Regards
EC

Quote:

---

It's RTW mod and so generals have to be in some way related to the royal family. It's something we have to live with. All we can do is to decide to whom particularly they are connected and how (marriage or adoption). But the trick with adoption is that in game an event that you can adopt sb can be changed to sth like "you can promote sb". Still, the characters will appear in the family tree as relatives of royals. For now I can't think of any way to change this thing.

---

See, what I thought about is, changing the daughters AND the adoptions to promotions. Instead of having "do you want this man to marry your daughter?" you´ll get "this man has showed some skill, do you want to promote him to ?"

Princesses are not used as in MTW anymore, so there isnt much point in keeping them.

I´m just brainstorming here, I don´t even know if this is doable.


Another question: Is it possible to make a unit "cause fear" to all units enemies and friends alike in a certain area around the unit?

That could lead to some interesting combinations.

Regards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

See, what I thought about is, changing the daughters AND the adoptions to promotions. Instead of having "do you want this man to marry your daughter?" you´ll get "this man has showed some skill, do you want to promote him to ?"

Princesses are not used as in MTW anymore, so there isnt much point in keeping them.

I´m just brainstorming here, I don´t even know if this is doable.


Another question: Is it possible to make a unit "cause fear" to all units enemies and friends alike in a certain area around the unit?

That could lead to some interesting combinations.

Regards.

---

Well, changing the women into anything else would cause some funny results IMHO. Just think, how would it look like if two men had children together. And not adopted, but of their own. Besides, I don't think we can get rid of women and replace them with male general characters. I would expect this element of the game to be hardcoded, but I'm not certain whether it really is.

What I think can be done in this matter is ... hmm ... what would you say about changing female names to titles (like office titles etc) and changing their potraits for some symbolic representation of office/rank/etc. Alteration of marriage text would be needed to (sth like "a suitable candidate for an office"). Well, I know that such titles would really mean nothing, but that seems more interesting to me, and most of all it is doable. Another problem would be that those titles would born :dizzy2: and there would have to be messages saying sth on such occassions (but what? maybe sth like "a following office/title has become vacant"?). Well, the fact titles would age is puzzling too.

Okay, it's not the best idea I've ever had, but perhaps somebody can help to make sth usable out of it, or has anybody got any other ideas as to the female characters role in this mod?

Regards
EC

Quote:

---

What I think can be done in this matter is ... hmm ... what would you say about changing female names to titles (like office titles etc) and changing their potraits for some symbolic representation of office/rank/etc. Alteration of marriage text would be needed to (sth like "a suitable candidate for an office"). Well, I know that such titles would really mean nothing, but that seems more interesting to me, and most of all it is doable. Another problem would be that those titles would born and there would have to be messages saying sth on such occassions (but what? maybe sth like "a following office/title has become vacant"?). Well, the fact titles would age is puzzling too.

---

Exactly my point. ~;)

The screens for "your wife gave light to a daughter" could be changed to something like "Your parliament started discussing the creation of a new title".

Or maybe just hide the message so that it doesnt appear at all...
The age of the title could be hidden as well.
When the title "died", a message like "this title is now vacant" and the same title could be resigned to a next genereation.

Of course if it is possible to do such thing at all.

read this one I think it might come handy. Thanks to Myrdaal for this find.


Another suggestion here: Allow the heavy pike infantry to form phalanx. Without shields, i will be just the best anti-cavalry formation. And it will look quite appropriate. Accounts of spanish battles against Dutch cavalry said that a formation quite similar to phalanx was used to stop cavalry charges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

read this one I think it might come handy. Thanks to Myrdaal for this find.

---

As you said, it might. Honestly, I now see no use for this. I mean it's an interesting find and all, but the functionality of it for our mod is not clear to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

Another suggestion here: Allow the heavy pike infantry to form phalanx. Without shields, i will be just the best anti-cavalry formation. And it will look quite appropriate. Accounts of spanish battles against Dutch cavalry said that a formation quite similar to phalanx was used to stop cavalry charges.

---

Good idea. I also think the phalanx formation is a proper one for some pike units we have.
BTW, can anyone have a look into names? I don't mean here the name lists, as they have been already made for MTW version of this mod, and hence will only have to be revised. I mean the faction-names relations. I think it would be good if sb took a look at that as there seems to me to be some kind of problem there. Well, perhaps I simply haven't examined the issue well enough, but for me it seems that cultures share a number of names (characters names).

Regards
EC

Quote:

---

As you said, it might. Honestly, I now see no use for this. I mean it's an interesting find and all, but the functionality of it for our mod is not clear to me.

---

Pure aesthetics.

NAmes, well, its normal that some cultures share names. I mean, the cossacks are surely going to have a few Polish and Russian names in the list. Same for other factions that shared some territories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

NAmes, well, its normal that some cultures share names. I mean, the cossacks are surely going to have a few Polish and Russian names in the list. Same for other factions that shared some territories.

---

Ok, but think about 'roman' factions (HRE, Spain, Pope, Electoral States) they IMHO should not share names, the same goes for 'barbarian' that is protestant factions. Could you, or anyone else having some spare time, look into it. I mean you would have to test if each and every faction can have a completely separate name list. As I said before, I'm not sure if sharing names within one culture is hardcoded, or can we get over it. Comming back to your Cossack example, think about what happens if Cossacks get Hungarian names too, as they would if the names depend on culture and not only on faction. This whole naming issue can be a pain, that's why it needs to be tested. If theres nobody up to the task, I can do it myself, only that not very soon.

Regards
EC

Ok, got you. ~:cheers:

I´ll try and have a look. Which are the names files?

Nevermind, found that.

Quote:

---

Names Database Entries:

Holds non-localised Latin names for settlements and characters. These are arranged on a per faction basis.

Entries are specified by the following syntax:
;;
;; faction:
;; settlements
;;
;; characters
;;
;;
;; faction ... etc

---

Thats on the top of the descr_names.txt

I actually found difference betwen the brutii and the julii, so thats ok.

NEWS

I want to announce that eastern european mod 'Ogniem i Mieczem TW' is officially our 'friendly mod' and we will support their efforts in future. More details in our sub-forum later.
It means also that they will help us in our efforts - especially by preparing new models/skins etc.
I will coordinate this efforts before they will introduce themselves in our sub-forum.

Swordmaster tracked down and I asked him and YES Sundjata Keita will join our efforts.
It means that his abandoned African TW will be assimilated by our mod to some degree - rather only with new units added to our roster.
He is a skilled skinner and will prepare some units for us.
I am discussing the question what he wants to prepare now.

@EC

Pytales TosaInu ?

Regards Cegorach :charge:

Could you post a link to the "With Fire and sword"(is that right?) MOD development forum?

Gentlemen,

Ive restarted my work on the website, and it is almost finished (except for a few small things that i still have to discuss with cegorach). If all goes well i can have it ready during the next week.
This is just a page template, we still require a top logo with 967x102, im not a skilled graphical artist so im not able to do one.
Check the template here: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/the_dementor/pm/index.htm

Im happy to know that we're going to have our sub-forum at last. That way we can separate the many discussions related to the mod ~:) .

Well my part as a Portuguese Historician is not yet finished i think, if it is still being included in the mod i still can help you, even with maps and historical battles.

Cheers, ~:cheers:

Hi, Sundjata Keita here

I am just confirming as Cegorach1 said that I am going to be doing some work for this mod. I have just emailed Cegorach with a small list of units that I feel would be appropriate and I will let him post up the list once he has checked it.

He also mentioned that EC might want to know what resources were found in Northern Africa, if you want it really realistic tell me which provinces you are going to put in Northern Africa and I will give you the relative resources, otherwise I will give you a rough idea of what can be found and you can add them as the game balances out.

Some common resources found in northern Africa at the time were
-cattle
-slaves
-salt
-gold
-spices
-camels
-ivory

I don't know what resources you are going to include but most of the above will fit well enough into North Africa ~:cheers:

Welcome m8 ~:cheers:

Maybe you could also try to have a look at the kingdom of Fez, I had no luck with any sources.

Why don´t you also make a list of the provinces you think are appropiate for N.Africa?

I thought Fez was a city in Morocco originating from fezza.

Anyway I was looking at some maps in a book I have for northern Africa in this period. I found a copy of Johannes Shnitzer's map of the world based on Ptolemy's ideas from 1482 (pretty close to the starting date huh ~D ) but this is hard to read off. I have several other copies of maps from the 1600's which are far more readable so I have incorparated ideas from both. Unfortunately I can't tell if these maps are referring to cities or regions or lakes etc. so some of them might be wrong but anyway the regions I propose are :-

- Fezza (Morocco)
- Barbaria (most of Algeria and some of libya)
- Getulia (Tunisia)
- Berdoa (other parts of Libya)
- Barca Defertum (bit of Libya and a bit of Egypt)
- Eleocar (the rest of Egypt)

I can add more to this list or take some away depending on how many regions you want

Fez was a kingdom in Morocco. It occupied most of today´s Morocco.
Here is my proposal for Regions:

Tanger (Tangiers)
Fez
Orania
Berberia
Tunisia (I dont really know if in the XVI cent it was called Tunisia or Gaetulia)

Quote:

---

Berdoa (other parts of Libya)
Barca Defertum (bit of Libya and a bit of Egypt)
Eleocar (the rest of Egypt)

---

~D
Alexandria


That´ll give it a bit more of flexibility.

Tanger is a city
Fez is a city (the region around it is called Fezza)
Orania is a city in south africa
I have just noticed Barbaria was not formed until the dutch made maps in the 1600's before then it was all part of Getulia (gaetulia is latin I think)
:dizzy2:

Well anyway I have made a new list base on a slightly later map but with clear region defenitions on :-

- Fezza
- Getulia
- Beledulgerid
- Barca Defertum (meaning the desert of Barca)
- Then either Eleocar or Sahid (both deserts)
- Guatala*

* optional

Once this list is finalised I will try to make some kind of diagram to show you the regions, I don't have a scanner so I can't scan the map in.

How many regions do you want anyway because at the moment these will be huge regions. If you need more I suggest

Berdoa
Gaogareg
Numidia
Zanhaga

I will then look at finding some city names. I know Fez was in Fezza but other than that I will need a magnifying glass on this crazy map to look at these names. :book:

Quote:

---

Tanger is a city
Fez is a city (the region around it is called Fezza)
Orania is a city in south africa

---

I know Tanger is a city, but there have been numerous wars for Tanger between Spain, Portugal and the kingdom of Fez and Algiers so I think it is kinda important. Same thing for Oran (Algiers).


Fez is a city and a kingdom, but if you think it is ore accurate Fezza, I´ll agree with you.

Alexandria is another city, but it was of importance as trading center and its dominant position over the entrance of the Nile.


Anyway, It would be nice to see a sketch map of how this is actually going to look. IMHO we need 3-4 regions MORE than the original RTW, first to reflect the increased complexity of politics and military conquest in this age, and secondly because the "western" N. Africa had its provinces too huge.

Lets see what the other people says as well. I don´t really know how many provinces have we got already, but adding another few shouldn´t be a problem.

O.K. I have done a quick sketch map of the regions in North Afrcia, do any more need adding?

http://img61.exs.cx/img61/5169/north...onscopy2bj.png

The cities so far will be :-

Fezza - Fez
Getulia - Alger
Zanhaga - Nouadhibou
Gualata - Arguin
Biledulgerid - Tamanrasset
Berdoa - Tripoli
Barca - Darnah
Eleocar - Alexandria
Sahid- Cairo?
Nubia - Khartoum
Borno - Mao
Gaoga - Aozou
Libya Interior - Tombouctou (Timbuktu)
Numidia - Taoudenni


Sorry about by bad drawing and just for the record it's Gualata not Guatala like I have spelt it on the map.

nice. I think Getulia and Numidia should be split If that is possible.

Is the map covering all the way up to the Red sea? or just to the Nile?

I added three more provinces onto the map and have put on where each city goes. The map goes all the way to the red sea. I added on where the nile goes roughly. Also I corrected the Gualata mis-spelling

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/7544/north...onscopy8is.png

The new and changed cities are:-

Telesin - Alger
Getulia - Rusicade (now known as Skikda)
Targa - Arlit
Numidia - Kidal
Zuenziga - Taoudenni
Zanhaga - Port Etienne (now known as Nouadhibou)
Gualata - Kiffa

Hi, I was away for the last two days. See you're all busy here. Good! ~:cheers:

Greetings and Welcome Sundjata Keita! ~:cheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

Nevermind, found that.


Quote:
Names Database Entries:

Holds non-localised Latin names for settlements and characters. These are arranged on a per faction basis.

Entries are specified by the following syntax:
;;
;; faction:
;; settlements
;;
;; characters
;;
;;
;; faction ... etc





Thats on the top of the descr_names.txt

I actually found difference betwen the brutii and the julii, so thats ok.

---

Very good. That makes the names issue clear as to faction specific names, but... what I think still we have to examine here, is how to make captains use the surnames rather than the first names. Well, we could swap the surnames and the first names, but then we'd get akward names for named characters, AND obviously a name (eg. Charles) would become a family name. :dizzy2: Or is there any other way to make captains use the surnames? Anyone?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cegorach1

@EC

Pytales TosaInu ?

---

Yes, I have, but he haven't answered me yet. I was absent for the last two days so perhaps so was he. I don't know. The Duke said all I had to do was to talk to Tosa, like that's just to execute the decision of our subforum being established. I'm sure Tosa will answer soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Count, tHe dEmEnToR

Gentlemen,

Ive restarted my work on the website, and it is almost finished (except for a few small things that i still have to discuss with cegorach). If all goes well i can have it ready during the next week.

---

Very good to 'hear' (see) this! ~:cheers: The template looks good. ~D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita

He also mentioned that EC might want to know what resources were found in Northern Africa, if you want it really realistic tell me which provinces you are going to put in Northern Africa and I will give you the relative resources, otherwise I will give you a rough idea of what can be found and you can add them as the game balances out.

---

Good, but have in mind there can't be that much of Africa in this mod as on your sketch map. We sadly can't have any more factions, and making all those African regions rebel seems generally not the best idea to me. My personal view (based on maps I have) on African regions is that (considering what factions we have and what wars they would/should conduct) there would be a few large regions: Egypt (Cairo), Barca (Benghazi), Tripolitania (Tripoli), Tunisia (Tunis), Algeria (Alger), Fezza/Morocco (Fez) and a number of coastal city provinces like Tanger, Orania and some other. I would see Sahara as unconquerable rebel region (neither the Spanish nor the Ottomans have subjugaded it). Sahara could, on the other hand, be a source of some unique mercenary units. As for the big provinces being so few, that's what my map says (Ottoman empire XVI-XVII) and it wouldn't be very gameplay wise to give the Ottomans some 15 regions in Africa alone, as they're going to have some 20-25 in Asian and European parts together. They will have to be powerful, but we have to be careful as not to overpower them too much. Their only major war theatre will be in Europe anyway, consider this. We can revise your region list, what would you suggest?

A major map update is comming soon, I'm just now after the journey and too tired to finish the remeining part of what I will show.

Regards
EC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eastside Character

Very good to 'hear' (see) this! The template looks good.

---

Well thanks, its actually the first review on it heh. ~:cheers:

Regards, :charge:

Quote:

---

Very good. That makes the names issue clear as to faction specific names, but... what I think still we have to examine here, is how to make captains use the surnames rather than the first names. Well, we could swap the surnames and the first names, but then we'd get akward names for named characters, AND obviously a name (eg. Charles) would become a family name. Or is there any other way to make captains use the surnames? Anyone?

---

Well, its been a long time since I last played RTW, but I think they are using surnames already, aren´t they? If they are, there´s nothing to worry about.
If they are not, we´ll have to make up a list of names usable as surnames as well or something like that. ~D Don´t know really...


BTW, I also think that the map is a bit too far south. Specially considering that we´ve added a few northern provinces as well....

I think that it should end approx at the line going east from Port Etienne

I have made Africa more boring as requested so here it is

http://img47.exs.cx/img47/2695/north...bbishcopy8.png

The cities are

Fezza - Fez
Zanhaga - Port Etienne
Telesin - Alger
Getulia - Rusicade
Biledulgerid - Arlit
Berdoa - Tripoli
Barca - Darnah
Egypt - Cairo

Great m8!

Sorry to be nitpicking again, but now we are left with very little provinces IMO. So is it possible to split Egypt and Getulia?