How to Model New 3D Units

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Originally Posted by hoggy

Burns - you need to merge vertices after you place two on top of each other. It's in the right hand options area. for RTW models set the tolerance to about 0000.1 and click merge verts. Otherwise 'collapse' is good but it makes the two vert meet in the middle.



ShapolioKhan - your swords are using the right texture so it must be the uvs. In the drop down modifier menu on the right find 'unwrap uvs' then hit 'edit'. This opens the uv window. In here you can match the uvs to the texture for you sword. (The transparency you are getting in game is a seperate issue with alpha channels on your texture which should be fixed once your uvs are ok.) ps. I'm struggling to understand some of your posts so please bear with me if I'm not giving the correct answers.

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dear hoggy,

thaks for your guidence.
i did the uvw thing, and realized that the model of sword is corrupted.i mean one side is ok but other side is unavaliable. interesting that it came with original game :)
anyway, i'll find another longsowrd to put there, and then i'll do uvw..
thanks for your answers, they were all correct :)

stay well as a good teacher of us...
Kaan

Thanks hoggy. Ok, hopefully my last question: In professor420's modelling tutorial, he uses symmetry to mirror and weld together a cape. Now Ive been trying to do something like that to put together this head: http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/monsterhead.JPG
What is the best method for mirroring the head but also having the two pieces connected?

I tend to use the 'mirror' modifier with 'copy' ticked. In some versions of Max you need to attach mirrored objects afterwards. You still need to weld the verts to get a clean join after you have mirrored. I've not used symetry much so I couldn't tell you which is better.

Yeah mirror will do the trick.

I'm having a problem with 3DS (as many others, i'm sure). I recently made a new moddel, and everything went fine. Exporting worked without a difficulty, and the unit behaved as normal as possible in-game.But when i try to import my model in 3DS, i get this error:

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/3DS Problem.JPG

what did i do wrong?

urk.. mm not sure sorry. Not seen that before. Any one else encountered this? Have you got the most up to date Cas tool? I must admit I don't tend to re-import my cas' I just save the max scene and change and re-export that.

I do that to, but my mod leader (Nero666 from Rise of Persia) tried to import it, and then it gave the error. Anyway, he fixed it, don't know how just yet though

Hi again hoggy. I've got a question on uv mapping (I've gotten a fair grasp of modelling :)). What kind of procedure is best for RTW models? I've seen things where only half a model is used to create the UV maps while other times the whole model. I guess the point of this is that I'd like some tips when creating uv maps, particularily methods of doing so.

The best tip is probably to look at the way RTW models do it. they group their uv sets quite well. I usually use projection mapping.

basic process is. select polys, detach to element, uv map, unwrap uvs, open uv editor and tweak uvs, print screen, collapse stack, into photoshop, paste crop and resize, copy and paste onto your texture and use as a layer at high opacity.

a couple of variations:
- select the polys on the model you want to map ie the face. Do a front projection on the face. open the edit uv window and select the uvs on the right hand side of the face and flip them horizontally. line these up with the ones on the left. Tweak the uv on the side of the cheeks so the texture doesn't stretch.
or - with just half a model. select the face polys you want to map. detatch the face as a seperate object. projection map it. mirror the object and weld verts. then reattach to the rest of the object. This avoids the seam down the front of the face.

Other tips.
- Do your textures twice the size and reduce at the end.
- Leave a couple of pixels bleed on all your uv sets so that when the texture mipmaps you dont see the neighboring texture bleed into it.
- plan where everything is going to go in your head before you start.
- in render/environment turn the ambient to white as this is what the game's level of brightness is.

erm, any more anyone? If you get stuck at all give us a shout anyway.

hey Hoggy i have a question: How do i apply a cloth peice to a model, like i want a huge flag which waved, how do i do that; will implimenting a cloth collection do the trick?

RTW doesn't support cloth physics. the best you can do at the moment I think is to make a solid unmoving flag out of polys and attach it to one of the unit bones. If you create a whole new set of animations it may be possible to weight the flag to bones and animate it but it would be a big job.

Thanks hoggy, but can anyone tell me how to apply skin modifiers to a model properly (i know how to apply it but i get errors that its not properly applied)?

take a look at this thread
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44451

Hey there. I've downloaded the CAS import and export plug-in. However, I have run into a wee bit of a problem. In order to activate it, I read I have to to go under the 'Utilities' tab and press RUN SCRIPT. From there, I double click on the CAS import and export file. According to what I have seen and read, it should work, but an error is always reporting and keeping me from starting all the fun. This is it:

MAXScript FileIn Exception

-- Syntax error: at bad, expected <factor>
-- In line: PK

[OK]

After the 'PK' comes a symbol that looks like this: LJ and then following that is a paragraph sign. Also to note, the script is just a frenzy of symbols, letters, and numbers. Any idea what this means? How can I fix it? Is there something bad with the download? I have it saved as a .zip file. Should I save it as a different file? What did you guys do? Pleeeeaaase, help me.

Cordially,
Njord's Heir

Thanks for the skinning tips hoggy. One question that kind of boggles me. Say I take the head of a model, I uv map the face, then the side and back separately, how then do I merge the two together. This goes for all the various bits like arms, weapons, pauldrons and so forth. I've tried taking one of the uvs and copying it into another one but that doesnt appear to have worked. Tips?

Burns,
First, detach all the different elements you want to UV map. Then UV map each element and drag the UVW unwrap map out of the center. Do this to every element. When you're done with one element, right click on it and convert to editable poly. Do this for every element. When you're done UV mapping everything, select one of the object, and attach all the other objects to it. Then UVW unwrap and you have all the different UV maps in one map. Just drag them into the places you want them to and you got yourself an UV map;)
Hope this helps.

- Tittils -

Cool, I understand.

I usually increase the model size to 2000 times that of an RTW model. When I export the model I decrease the size back to the stock RTW model using 'Select and Uniform Scale'. I've been noticing that when I add a skin I can no longer re-size the model down. Is the only way around this to give the model a skin when the model is sized down already?

Fellas, thank you so much for the help and advice:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczy...hfoot_new2.JPG

But one thing is annoying me when exporting models:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczy...r_message2.JPG

The UV map screws up after I export the model. Any ways of preventing this from happening?

you need to detach the arms and head as elements.

I've tried to get it proper the last day with no effect. While exporting I also get the following error message which I think may be tied to the uv screwup and other model issues:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tom_leszczyk/error_message.JPG

Is it simply that there is no dds file that is connected to this model?

Is it possible to have the model have two weapons - I think in some pictures posted I see that this is the case - so that he uses one weapon like a spear for shock action (or a bow for ranged) and the other weapon like a sword for melee? I just want to know if it's possible.

Thanks,
de Clare

Alin's thread didnt help me make skin modifiers work, what did he mean drag and drop (something like that), if i know how to make skin modifiers work i can make models from scratch!

Burns - it certainly looks like it's having a problem with your material there. Is it a .dds? Is it the right size? You should only have one material/texture per model so no multi-sub required....

dclare4 - yes, a unit can have primary weapon and secondary weapons.

killerxguy - em, which thread by Alin? Check standard Max tutorials for skinning or post here if you have a specific problem.

Thanks, I'll post my specific problems:-

Ok i can make the skin modifier, and go to edit envl. or click verticies or what ever but i cant seem to wiegh verticies and link 'em to each specific bone, If you have a way to do this (preferably fast) please tell me. Hope it doesnt involve 2 hrs. of draging..etc, alot of thanks to you hoggy, i really really apreciate your help

Making a skin and linking is actually simple work after a bit of practice. What I do to make life easier is open a second Max scene and import a Rome model and see how they set the bones up. Basically, look how they set their bones and you'll usually get the best effect. Also, below the vertices option are two more checked boxes, make sure those are unchecked. Ok, so you select a bunch of verts, select a corresponding bone from the list, torso pelvis, elbow whatever, then scroll down to where you weigh them. Input 1 in the field - if 1.0 is already present then set it to 0 - AND THEN input 1 - if you see the bones change colour to red you know it worked properly.

thanks i'll start practicing now, hope it works

i triedto, it takes ages, and alot of mistakes are done!

Hi Hoggy,

Well, that's good to know. Is there like a switch that will tell the computer which one is primary or secondary? I'm afraid I don't know that much about modelling but a friend is working on models that I texture and I'd like them to have primary and secondary weapons.

Thanks,
de Clare

You need to create both models ie bow and spear. Name one 'primary weapon' and the other 'secondary weapon' and then link them to their respective bones ie. sword primary weapon is linked to the right hand. Then you need to edit the entries for your unit in descr_model_battle and export_descr_unit to get the unit to use both weapons.

Thanks very, very, very much Hoggy!

By the way, I kind of suspect some modifications crash because you can't mix spear and archer types or something like that - types that don't have one or the other type of animation? Just wanted to be sure about that - y'see in ZTW we'll be having units of gun armed infantry led by sergeants with spontoons (pikes), musicians (with bugle, drum or bagpipe) and lieutenants (with swords) and in fire combat the collected officers are not supposed to fire. Sometimes it seems to work (if I use the same model with retexturing it seems to work), but other times it doesn't. Also if I 'fire' the officers will fire along with the rest of the unit right? I'm wondering if this might be problematic for the unit.

You DA MAN Hoggy!
Harlechman (Clare)