17th century

Juan Gonzalez de Mendoza rises, and waits for silence. He speaks clearly, with a mild unrecognizable accent, due to all his years abroad, and he states the position of the King of Spain, His Catholic Majesty Philippe III.



1) How do we deal with non Catholic Christians in our coutries? The schism is a source for revolts, because some use it for their own profit. Toleration, but we cannot allow them to control vast tracts of Europe for as we have seen in the case of Brandenburg, they support violent revolts of their bretheren. A limitation on their millitary powers and mutual pact among all Catholic nations to attack all Protestant rebbels where they sprout like thorns upon the grape vine.

"Put away your sword" These are the words of the Lord. The French King believes the the word of the Lord is the only adequate weapon to fight and convert people of different faith. However, He also condemns all those who use their religion as a false pretenece for greed.

To put away the sword is suicide. To put away the sword means be left at the mercy of the heathens for whom the words of the Lord are a source of amusement instead of zeal. Spain firmly believes, that even if other religions are tolerated, they must be controlled. The King also wishes to look at other Christian religions as one would look at a blundered child, firmly, but with every intention of bringing the True Faith to them. Other heathens that do not believe in the Bible are to be treated with every harshness.


2) How can we end the wars between Christian countries?The Holy Roman Empire merley wishes that the other Catholic countrie allow the Emperor to deal with his subjects as he wishes and rule his land as he wishes. He also calls for a war against the vile Turks to be coordinated for by all Catholic rulers.
The King of France wishes, that all Catholic leaders rule to a common code of honor. This includes not to use subversive means against others or the surpression of religious freedom.

The supression of religious freedom is an internal affair. This shall not be ruled by any Council. As of a code of honour, Spain will uphold it with those who also sign it.

3) How can we end piracy?
Perhaps a fairer hand to England and the Netherlands in the North Americas, and more open market and a united Catholic navy under the command of a Catholic league council.

I think this council should condemn any form of piracy like the King of France does. The French King declares, that any attack against the French sea trade will be responded with military means.

Spain has a similar position on piracy. Any attack on Spanish merchants will be treated as an attack against the Crown, and the guilty will be treated accordingly.

Spain will not put its men under the command of any Council. Spanish soldiers only serve the King.

More open trade with other Catholics could be something the King would be interested in discussing on an individual basis (PM)

4) How do we deal with Moslems and Orthodox and other perplexities?
Destruction of these Heathens and Infidels ais the only answer, they already call for the destruction of Poland the Catholic bastion of the east.

"Put away your sword" These are the words of the Lord. The French King believes the the word of the Lord is the only adequate weapon to fight and convert people of different faith. However, He also condemns all those who use their religion as a false pretenece for greed.

Spain will be neutral in these conflicts. Those who are not under Spain can save or lose their souls as they please.

5) What is our position on slavery
All non-Christians (and those conquerd heathen who refuse to convert) must either be put to the sword or be made into slavery.

Slavery is good, if the target is to convert the slaves to Christians. Then, they have to be freed.

Slavery will serve its purpose, but this is one issue that will be revisited once it is economically unviable. The colonies need slaves, and they will have them for as long as they are needed.

Jacob Ulfeldt rises, and addresses those present in French: 'His majesty Christian IV would like me to relate these:

1) How do we deal with non Catholic Christians in our coutries? The schism is a source for revolts, because some use it for their own profit. Toleration, but we cannot allow them to control vast tracts of Europe for as we have seen in the case of Brandenburg, they support violent revolts of their bretheren. A limitation on their m

"Put away your sword" These are the words of the Lord. The French King believes the the word of the Lord is the only adequate weapon to fight and convert people of different faith. However, He also condemns all those who use their religion as a false pretenece for greed.

To put away the sword is suicide. To put away the sword means be left at the mercy of the heathens for whom the words of the Lord are a source of amusement instead of zeal. Spain firmly believes, that even if other religions are tolerated, they must be controlled. The King also wishes to look at other Christian religions as one would look at a blundered child, firmly, but with every intention of bringing the True Faith to them. Other heathens that do not believe in the Bible are to be treated with every harshness.

King Christian leaves his ever-present motto: 'Piety Strengthens the Realm' as a reminder of how to deal with such. On the coin of this motto, he presents on one side a vision of a catholic crozier ascendant in each city of the world, in Prague, Paris, London, Cairo and Istanbul.

On the inverse of the coin there is a vision of the cross of God lying discarded on some field - Frankish or Spanish or Danish or German, it matters not. This is the vision that must be cut away with the precision of a scalpel and not the blundering strikes of a sword. I propose we must remove those merely misled to other faiths by legislation, but that those leading them be put under the sword of a Catholic league.

2) How can we end the wars between Christian countries?The Holy Roman Empire merley wishes that the other Catholic countrie allow the Emperor to deal with his subjects as he wishes and rule his land as he wishes. He also calls for a war against the vile Turks to be coordinated for by all Catholic rulers.
The King of France wishes, that all Catholic leaders rule to a common code of honor. This includes not to use subversive means against others or the surpression of religious freedom.

The supression of religious freedom is an internal affair. This shall not be ruled by any Council. As of a code of honour, Spain will uphold it with those who also sign it.

The Dano-Norwegian people are not prepared to accept this until Sweden agrees to do so and makes peace. The King must first be assured that raising the sword and readying the cannon against another Catholic is uneccessary.

3) How can we end piracy?
Perhaps a fairer hand to England and the Netherlands in the North Americas, and more open market and a united Catholic navy under the command of a Catholic league council.

I think this council should condemn any form of piracy like the King of France does. The French King declares, that any attack against the French sea trade will be responded with military means.

Spain has a similar position on piracy. Any attack on Spanish merchants will be treated as an attack against the Crown, and the guilty will be treated accordingly.

Spain will not put its men under the command of any Council. Spanish soldiers only serve the King.

More open trade with other Catholics could be something the King would be interested in discussing on an individual basis (PM)

Denmark sees no benefit to placing its navy under the control of another. It is clear that our colonial interests differ. Attacks on Danish merchants will be a cause for war, equally.

4) How do we deal with Moslems and Orthodox and other perplexities?
Destruction of these Heathens and Infidels ais the only answer, they already call for the destruction of Poland the Catholic bastion of the east.

"Put away your sword" These are the words of the Lord. The French King believes the the word of the Lord is the only adequate weapon to fight and convert people of different faith. However, He also condemns all those who use their religion as a false pretenece for greed.

Spain will be neutral in these conflicts. Those who are not under Spain can save or lose their souls as they please.

Denmark-Norway is ever-vigilant and will assist, how it can, its fellow Catholics.

5) What is our position on slavery
All non-Christians (and those conquerd heathen who refuse to convert) must either be put to the sword or be made into slavery.

Slavery is good, if the target is to convert the slaves to Christians. Then, they have to be freed.

Slavery will serve its purpose, but this is one issue that will be revisited once it is economically unviable. The colonies need slaves, and they will have them for as long as they are needed.[/QUOTE]

Denmark, not yet having a distant colony, has no need for slavery at the moment, but nor shall it underestimate their value and make some sanctimonious speech on what it does not know about.

The Polish ambassador rises to speak

1) How do we deal with non Catholic Christians in our coutries? The schism is a source for revolts, because some use it for their own profit. Toleration, but we cannot allow them to control vast tracts of Europe for as we have seen in the case of Brandenburg, they support violent revolts of their bretheren. A limitation on their m

"Put away your sword" These are the words of the Lord. The French King believes the the word of the Lord is the only adequate weapon to fight and convert people of different faith. However, He also condemns all those who use their religion as a false pretenece for greed.

To put away the sword is suicide. To put away the sword means be left at the mercy of the heathens for whom the words of the Lord are a source of amusement instead of zeal. Spain firmly believes, that even if other religions are tolerated, they must be controlled. The King also wishes to look at other Christian religions as one would look at a blundered child, firmly, but with every intention of bringing the True Faith to them. Other heathens that do not believe in the Bible are to be treated with every harshness.

King Christian leaves his ever-present motto: 'Piety Strengthens the Realm' as a reminder of how to deal with such. On the coin of this motto, he presents on one side a vision of a catholic crozier ascendant in each city of the world, in Prague, Paris, London, Cairo and Istanbul.

On the inverse of the coin there is a vision of the cross of God lying discarded on some field - Frankish or Spanish or Danish or German, it matters not. This is the vision that must be cut away with the precision of a scalpel and not the blundering strikes of a sword. I propose we must remove those merely misled to other faiths by legislation, but that those leading them be put under the sword of a Catholic league.

We of Poland are for a toleration of all religions. The Jew and the Orthodox may live and breathe with the Catholics and Protestants of Poland. However, if a religious group threatens established order, we will deal with the offending faith as we see fit. All religions should be tolerated if they are willing to obey all laws.

2) How can we end the wars between Christian countries?The Holy Roman Empire merley wishes that the other Catholic countrie allow the Emperor to deal with his subjects as he wishes and rule his land as he wishes. He also calls for a war against the vile Turks to be coordinated for by all Catholic rulers.
The King of France wishes, that all Catholic leaders rule to a common code of honor. This includes not to use subversive means against others or the surpression of religious freedom.

The supression of religious freedom is an internal affair. This shall not be ruled by any Council. As of a code of honour, Spain will uphold it with those who also sign it.

The Dano-Norwegian people are not prepared to accept this until Sweden agrees to do so and makes peace. The King must first be assured that raising the sword and readying the cannon against another Catholic is uneccessary.

The supression or allowance of any religion is an internal affair, and should be dealt with by the respective rulers. However, wars between true Catholic nations should be avoided in favor of the word.

3) How can we end piracy?
Perhaps a fairer hand to England and the Netherlands in the North Americas, and more open market and a united Catholic navy under the command of a Catholic league council.

I think this council should condemn any form of piracy like the King of France does. The French King declares, that any attack against the French sea trade will be responded with military means.

Spain has a similar position on piracy. Any attack on Spanish merchants will be treated as an attack against the Crown, and the guilty will be treated accordingly.

Spain will not put its men under the command of any Council. Spanish soldiers only serve the King.

More open trade with other Catholics could be something the King would be interested in discussing on an individual basis (PM)

Denmark sees no benefit to placing its navy under the control of another. It is clear that our colonial interests differ. Attacks on Danish merchants will be a cause for war, equally.



4) How do we deal with Moslems and Orthodox and other perplexities?
Destruction of these Heathens and Infidels ais the only answer, they already call for the destruction of Poland the Catholic bastion of the east.

"Put away your sword" These are the words of the Lord. The French King believes the the word of the Lord is the only adequate weapon to fight and convert people of different faith. However, He also condemns all those who use their religion as a false pretenece for greed.

Spain will be neutral in these conflicts. Those who are not under Spain can save or lose their souls as they please.

Denmark-Norway is ever-vigilant and will assist, how it can, its fellow Catholics.

We in Poland are horrified that only the Holy Roman Empire has sought to assist the Catholic country in her war against the Moslem Turk and false Orthodox Czar. Were we to fall, then the Holy Roman Empire, who would stand between Paris and Istanbul but the Janissaries of the Sultan and the boyars of the czar!
Remember the war between the Greeks and Romans. The Greeks of Antiochus sought to prevent the Greeks from allying with the Romans, hoping to keep them neutral. The Romans sought the Greeks help. For if Antiochus conquered, then the Greeks would be absorbed. Stand on your feet and fight, do not bow and wait for the Turk to hammer on the cathedral doors. Don't wait for the Orthodox to rape and pillage the monastaries of the Rhine.

5) What is our position on slavery
All non-Christians (and those conquerd heathen who refuse to convert) must either be put to the sword or be made into slavery.

Slavery is good, if the target is to convert the slaves to Christians. Then, they have to be freed.

Slavery will serve its purpose, but this is one issue that will be revisited once it is economically unviable. The colonies need slaves, and they will have them for as long as they are needed.[/quote]

Denmark, not yet having a distant colony, has no need for slavery at the moment, but nor shall it underestimate their value and make some sanctimonious speech on what it does not know about.

So Legio when can we expect the next Chapter?

Armand-Jean I. du Plessis de Richelieu, Epsicopal de Lucon
Ambassador of the French King:

Holy Father, Kaiser, Lords:

The discussion was very fruitful and it showed that there are some areas of agreement and not.

For the end of this meeting the King of France makes this proposal:

The Catholic Nations condemn any act of piracy. They declare free trade on all seas.

Among those countries, that accept it, a code of honor is agreed:
There will be no use of spies and assassins
There will be no bribery
In case of war, no hostile actions will be started without a formal and in due time declaration of war.

This code of honor may increase the trust between the Catholic nations, without limiting their primitive rights.

Before I leave I want to invite you all to the palace of the King. There will be a festival to celebrate the new treaty of friendship between Savoy and France. All French noblemen will attand. As a special highlight the new exotic garden will be opened. There you can see exotic plants and creatures from His Majesty's colonies. You will see that Paris has gained the credit for the occidential centre of culture.

Orders for animals or plants can be placed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Csar

So Legio when can we expect the next Chapter?

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when the five remaining players have posted their options and I've had time to put together the next chapter. Probably within two weeks, probably even earlier than that.

I cant wait for the next chapter! Legio you have created an exellent game!:2thumbsup:

I'm just waiting for DoH to get back to me on something before I send in my orders.

IC:

Christian IV of Denmark-Norway is pleased to accept the terms of the council, should Sweden agree to do the same.

The Holy Father Paul V arises. He points out that he wishes to speak in these discussions which the Papacy has so kindly offered to host to strengthen the Catholic countries in their struggle against the Heathen and in defense of the Holy Church. In order to strengthen the Holy Church in this divine struggle, the Holy Father suggests that all nations should pay a small tax to the Papacy in order to sign this code of honor. The tax will be small and the annual cost will be corresponding to the upkeep of 1,000 mercenaries. In return the country will get the full benefits from the code of honor and the Papacy will protect those who follow the code against those who do not. This tax will help finishing the wonderous St Peter's Basilica in Rome, which shall unite the Christians against the Heathen, and hopefully make the schismatic return to the Holy Church.

Secondly, the Holy Father wishes all countries to do everything possible to stop the heretical heliocentric teachings in their universities. Such lies undermine the credibility of the Holy Church and strengthen the unrighteous. Beware of these false teachings and temptations of the deceiver!

More severe methods should also be used against sins such as questioning the transubstantiation, the virginity of the Holy Virgin Mary, sodomy, simple fornication, witchcraft, and converts to Christianity whose conversion is not truly followed and is merely an attempt to disguise themselves as Christians while in reality they maintain their previous beliefs. Last year the Inquisition successfully captured and tried 50 people guilty of such hideous crimes! True sons of the church must be aware that these dangerous false preachers are everywhere, and remember the words of the Lord: there will be no more true Apostles before the return of Him!

Finally, the Holy Father wishes to proclaim that all rulers who sign the treaties and pay the code of honor tax and assist in the construction of St Peter's Basilica will be forgiven for all their sins up to this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

I cant wait for the next chapter! Legio you have created an exellent game!:2thumbsup:

---

thanks ~:)

I agree witj Kage-san!

Legio, please set a deadline. I guess one weeks should be enough for negotiations and planning. You can decide how much time you need.

Juan Gonzalez de Mendoza, after a short, whispering consultation with his aide rises.

Sirs, Spain will mantain the Code of Honour, but it will not be possible for the King to economically sustain the assets of the Holy Father. Spain is at war, as you all know, and until the war is finished and the extrernal debt is returned, Spain will not be able to pay any amount of money to any external factions. I am sure you will understand.

Thank You.

He looks at each of the representatives in turn and takes his seat.

Amazing looking game here, Legio. I understand that I have to research to join, which I will do shortly, but for now could I please join as Venice? (just for confirmation)

Legio did you get my PM I sent? Are you gonna reply soon or do I have to wait a bit?

Edit: Oh ok

He doen't reply to decishuns. It takes up space on the PM box.

bad post

The Holy Roman Emperor rises to adress the assembly

I have sat here and observed much to commend the true Christians of Europe. To France I offer the hand of freindship over the meded bridge of peace, We applaud you in you're willingness to see Europe at peace once more. To the other members of this meeting, I thank you and embrace you as brothers. To Poland and all Christians of the tru Catholic church I give you my word of honour, I shall not allow you to fall under the Heathen foot of opression and heresy!
I accept the measures of this pact wholeheartedly, I will attend the function of the Frech king, but only while I can. For I will personally lead a war against the Turks, I shall bring the cross to the very walls of Constantinople! I shall rid Europe of the Heathens! I shall raise the lord on high above the walls of the Infidel stronghold! And I charge you all to do the same!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

Amazing looking game here, Legio. I understand that I have to research to join, which I will do shortly, but for now could I please join as Venice? (just for confirmation)

---

Well the number of players are starting to get quite many. I'm not sure it'd be manageable to have any more joining now (it's already a bit problematic). I'll need to think about it for a while.

I would like to, with all my heart behind this, announce that a peace has been resolved between Denmark-Norway and Sweden. Alvsborg has been returned to Sweden, but Norwegian lands north of Sweden have been recognised.

I am, as ever, glad to see a new peace between us Catholics, hoping that the people of Scandinavia may rally side by side to mete out punishment to those who blight our world.

Just a question - according to this peace treaty, who received the areas that are modern north Sweden? Did they too end up in Danish-Norwegian hands? It's unclear whether the treaty included only modern northern Norway of both modern north Norway and north Sweden.

Btw Legio can i ask, Are there still many that havent pm´d their answers. The diplomacy is running hot and the pm boxes are getting full.:2thumbsup:

2 players left ~:)

Thanks!:medievalcheers:

Thanks for considering.

BTW, if I do join I will probably do so as Transylvania rather than Venice. Venice's peace and neutrality policy sounds a bit boring.

Just a waiting for the next chapter just a waiting for the next chapter. I can't think of any other diplomatic discussions. Anybody got an offer for me?

The Holy Roman Emperor wishes to announce for all to know that from this day forward, all silks imported fork outside of France into the Empire will be considered smuggled goods. Any Countries which attempt to do so will be dealt with severely.

His Imperial Majesty of the Holy Roman Empire.

Research for Transylvania (if I can't play anyway, no worries)

a. Leader: Gabriel Bethlen (he is about to overthrow the current leader, Gabriel Bathory). Under Bethlen, Transylvania achieved a golden age of tolerance, industry and economic flourish.

b. None at the moment, although Gabriel Bethlen is favoured by the Ottoman Empire

c. None

d. None

e. None

f:
- Gabriel Bethlen lead uprising against Gabriel Bathory, which became unnecessary as Bathory was murdered by two of his officials
- Secret agreement with Hapsburg Emperor in 1615 for Transylvania to help in war against Turks
- Promise broken by Hapsburg Emperor, lead to war between Bethlen and the Emperor
- Annexation of Košice in 1619 while Emperor's forces were away fighting rebels in Bohemia, making Bethlen ruler of Royal Hungary (i.e. Slovakia), including Pressburg (modern Bratislava)
- Failed attempt at conquering Vienna that same year, due to attacks by George Druget and Polish Mercenaries.
- Negotiations opened in conquered towns, lead to nothing because Bethlen wanted Czech rebels to be included in truce
- 1620, Bethlen elected King of Hungary by nobles, but refused crown because he wanted to reconcile with Hapsburgs
- Hapsburg Emperor Ferdinand II defeated Czech rebels and returned to fight again, reconquering Slovakia in 1621
- Peace agreed in 1621 Treaty of Nikolsburg in which Bethlen gave up the title of King of Hungary on condition that Ferdinand confirmed 1606 Peace of Vienna (which granted liberty of worship to protestants)
- Bethlen granted 7 counties around Upper Tisza River and a duchy in Silesia
- 2 further campaigns against Hapsburgs in 1623-24 and 1626, both resolved in peace treaties
- Attempts to reconcile relations with Hapsburgs rejected, leading to Bethlen's abandonment of anti-Turkish projects
- Marriage to Catherine, daughter of elector of Brandenburg and alliance with Sweden made shortly thereafter
- George I Rákóczi elected and ruled from 1630-1648, also responsible for large cultural and educational reforms and the Peace of Linz in 1645

g. Very little information about this. Assume a 'periodical norm' for army structure or if anyone knows better, let them speak. Based on figures at the Battle of Selimbar, Transylvania would be able to muster at most 35,000 men. I do know that there was a heavy reliance on mercenaries.

h. Under Gabriel Bethlen and George I Rakoczi after him, economy was nationalised and prospered greatly. Mines and industry was developed. Trade was extended and greatly nationalised. Employment was large.

i. Ottoman Empire, Wallachia, Austria and Moldavia would be the main trading partners at the time. As for the trade resources, little information exists.

j. Ruled in autocracy. Rulers of Transylvania did not follow trends or dynastic patterns as a rule, and there were many power struggles. The leader must reform, govern and be a leader of the military throughout Transylvania.

k. Current leader's religion is Calvinist Protestant, but there is no religious persecution whatsoever. Edict of Turda is agreed by historians to be the first guarantee of religious freedom in Christian Europe. All religions are tolerated. However, Orthodox is not viewed in the same way as other religions.

l. Nobility and autocracy dominant, causing possible unhappiness and unrest in working classes and peasantry. However, Bethlen lowered unemployment so many who were previously out of a job would have work.

m. None in particular, but the Orthodox Romanians in the South may wish to join Wallachia or form their own national identity.

EDIT: Btw, if I do come in, I will do so during the next chapter. Then Bethlen will be in power and this chapter can be done without having to involve me.

To the honor of God, the country and the King the government announces that the island of Newfoudland is the third department of our colony La Nouvelle France.

Vive la France! Vive le Roi!


:france:

By Royal Decree, all spanish peoples of the Netherlands are granted by His Catholic Majesty Philippe III the right to practice any of the Christian religions that do not put in doubt the existance of Christ and the Scriptures (Protestants, Calvinists, Jews, Orthodox), and 1% tax is to be discharged from all those of Catholic faith. Other crimes against the Lord will continue to be prosecuted with zeal by tthe Holy Inquisition.

This is to take place immediately.

Philippe III

Dutch Embassador greets this act of Spanish and says that these kind of acts of tolerance are the path of the righteous. We also hope that the more zealous contingents in Catholic Church greet this announcement with the same admire.